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Official: DeRozan! Player of the Week p69

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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#981 » by d boy gentleman » Wed Aug 4, 2021 5:13 pm

Red8911 wrote:Someone mentioned this yesterday but was also listening to ESPN radio and Nick Friedel pops up . This Fkn guy is suuuch a hater.I don’t think he has ever said one good thing about the bulls. He was saying that all this noise/signing is for nothing. While the GSW ( who re reports for)made the right move which was Otto Porter LOL WHAT?

Fk that guy,I’m glad he’s done reporting for the bulls and don’t get how he got the job to begin with.


:lol:

That was me, but show me on the doll where Nick hurt you, cause damn!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#982 » by Jeffster81 » Wed Aug 4, 2021 5:22 pm

weneeda2guard wrote:The ceiling on this team is not like say the knicks or pacers or Boston. We know what they are and what they will be.


I won't argue ceilings with the Pacers or the Celtics (even if it's debatable) but I don't think the Knicks ceiling is higher than the Bulls.
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Re: Bulls Closing in on DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#983 » by MrFortune3 » Wed Aug 4, 2021 5:28 pm

barn34 wrote:
SaNdMiRkS wrote:
Red8911 wrote:No the Nets have 3 super stars and they are the clear favorites in the East. If Irving and Harden don’t get hurt they would have swept the bucks. Teams like Hawks,Bucks,Sixers are top teams too but the bulls will also get into the mix with them.East is as strong and competitive as its ever been. Lebrons teams wouldn’t scroll past the East like he used to that’s for sure.


Do you work for the nets franchise or something? These takes are comically strange. The Nets got bounced in the ECSF this past season, they're in the second tier with Philly, behind Milwaukee (the best team in the NBA) & Atlanta (the next big thing out East)



you can't be serious, right? Brooklyn is, hands down, the favorites to win the chip this season. They're the scariest team in the entire league, and they've actually managed to build a decent bench this week, as well.


The Nets have to stay healthy which is no small chore for them.
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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#984 » by StunnerKO » Wed Aug 4, 2021 5:28 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#985 » by nomorezorro » Wed Aug 4, 2021 5:32 pm

i think there is plenty of room to be vocally critical of the derozan deal, but the hollinger article is so lazy. very clearly just "i plugged this guy into my single-metric value formula and the dollar figure he signed for is different than the one it spit out, so i will lol." without any further analysis of derozan as a player

stupidly calls him not particularly efficient when he's put up a 59% or better ts% the past two seasons and doesn't turn the ball over, ignores the data that shows his production has been elite as a p&r initiator and isolation guy, insanely scoffs at the idea that someone would value derozan over ****ing evan fournier. i know his on/off stuff is rough, and that's something to be concerned about, but i also read he looked a lot better on that front once aldridge was off the team

i dunno, i'm obviously biased because i feel better about this signing than any other move we've made since AK took over, but i think the article genuinely stinks
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Re: Bulls Closing in on DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#986 » by The Senator » Wed Aug 4, 2021 5:33 pm

Red8911 wrote:
SaNdMiRkS wrote:
Red8911 wrote:No the Nets have 3 super stars and they are the clear favorites in the East. If Irving and Harden don’t get hurt they would have swept the bucks. Teams like Hawks,Bucks,Sixers are top teams too but the bulls will also get into the mix with them.East is as strong and competitive as its ever been. Lebrons teams wouldn’t scroll past the East like he used to that’s for sure.


Do you work for the nets franchise or something? These takes are comically strange. The Nets got bounced in the ECSF this past season, they're in the second tier with Philly, behind Milwaukee (the best team in the NBA) & Atlanta (the next big thing out East)

Where they got bounced really doesn’t matter anymore. Do you think Phoenix beats the Lakers with AD ? Do you think Phoenix beats the Clippers with Kawhi? Nets were up 2-0 with Irving over the bucks, then got hurt along with Harden being 10% healthy and caused them to lose.

Nets roster wise are the favorites. Good luck beating them if all of them are healthy. I’m no Nets fan but it’s the truth.


Staying on the court is part of the game as much as anything. AD has a long history of injuries, Kyrie has a lot of trouble staying out there year in and year out. I wouldn't dismiss durability as a major factor that could work against the Nets in the playoffs.
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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#987 » by gobullschi » Wed Aug 4, 2021 5:33 pm

I really don’t understand why people are trying to put a ceiling on this team. They have 3 all-stars, a developing point guard, a top 4 pick that received a team USA invite, (potentially) 2 top 7 picks, & a bunch of good role players.

This team is deep AF.
This team has youth with upside.
This is a championship contender.

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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#988 » by maxhatter » Wed Aug 4, 2021 5:47 pm

nomorezorro wrote:i think there is plenty of room to be vocally critical of the derozan deal, but the hollinger article is so lazy. very clearly just "i plugged this guy into my single-metric value formula and the dollar figure he signed for is different than the one it spit out, so i will lol." without any further analysis of derozan as a player

stupidly calls him not particularly efficient when he's put up a 59% or better ts% the past two seasons and doesn't turn the ball over, ignores the data that shows his production has been elite as a p&r initiator and isolation guy, insanely scoffs at the idea that someone would value derozan over ****ing evan fournier. i know his on/off stuff is rough, and that's something to be concerned about, but i also read he looked a lot better on that front once aldridge was off the team

i dunno, i'm obviously biased because i feel better about this signing than any other move we've made since AK took over, but i think the article genuinely stinks


I couldn't agree with you more! It seems as though the contract signing didn't match his formula for contract value so he had to smash the signing to support the validity of his formula. Everything he wrote in that article didn't jive with the facts
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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#989 » by ChiefILL53 » Wed Aug 4, 2021 5:57 pm

D_GoLow wrote:[youtube] https://youtu.be/zbJdHck0jcM/youtube]
This guy makes some great points and he also looks like a lighter skinned Joakin Noah.



Ive been catching some of his videos lately, its hilarious how much he looks like Jo. Good to see him lean into it as well (his name is motown noah)
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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#990 » by League Circles » Wed Aug 4, 2021 5:59 pm

We underpaid for Demar in terms of salary IMO.
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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#991 » by pipfan » Wed Aug 4, 2021 6:05 pm

I could see us landing anywhere from 3rd to 9th and not be too surprised. I think we top out as a 2nd round exit, but that's fine with me.
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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#992 » by WherePipAt » Wed Aug 4, 2021 6:20 pm

Every article I've read is destroying us for the Demar trade lol, hopefully they're all wrong.
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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#993 » by jnrjr79 » Wed Aug 4, 2021 6:22 pm

DuckIII wrote:Whether we overpaid Derozan or not is irrelevant to whether or not it was a good signing. AK chose an all in path when he traded for Vuc, and god damnit he followed up by actually going all in, bless his heart.

We’re over the cap. Being a little more over the cap is irrelevant unless we ignore meaningful talent upgrades to save money.



The problem with the Hollinger piece is the implied premise is that the goal of NBA roster construction is to acquire a team of players whose performance meets or exceeds their contract. Sure, generally that's good, but the goal of NBA roster construction is to (1) win NBA games and (2) if you're not a contender, give yourself a path to becoming one.

As fans, we should not care about whether individual players are overpaid, unless it's tying your hands and preventing other, more productive moves. All teams are going to consist of guys you think are worth less or more than their contracts, and a lot of that is just timing/salary inflation. With Derozan, if you agree it at least makes the Bulls marginally better, and particularly if you agree that his contract is not unmovable (which seems like a fair proposition), then who exactly was it the Bulls were supposed to S&T for that was available to them that would have been better?

They don't hand out Larry O'Brien trophies to teams that most accurately line up contract values to on-court performance.
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Re: Bulls Closing in on DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#994 » by troza » Wed Aug 4, 2021 6:27 pm

Red8911 wrote:No the Nets have 3 super stars and they are the clear favorites in the East. If Irving and Harden don’t get hurt they would have swept the bucks. Teams like Hawks,Bucks,Sixers are top teams too but the bulls will also get into the mix with them.East is as strong and competitive as its ever been. Lebrons teams wouldn’t scroll past the East like he used to that’s for sure.


I would say... if they had a good coach. At the end of game 3, up by 3 they do two plays for Brown. Not Durant or Irving, Brown. And it was not just Harden and Irving... but those were the main injuries.

Red8911 wrote:
SaNdMiRkS wrote:Do you work for the nets franchise or something? These takes are comically strange. The Nets got bounced in the ECSF this past season, they're in the second tier with Philly, behind Milwaukee (the best team in the NBA) & Atlanta (the next big thing out East)

Where they got bounced really doesn’t matter anymore. Do you think Phoenix beats the Lakers with AD ? Do you think Phoenix beats the Clippers with Kawhi? Nets were up 2-0 with Irving over the bucks, then got hurt along with Harden being 10% healthy and caused them to lose.

Nets roster wise are the favorites. Good luck beating them if all of them are healthy. I’m no Nets fan but it’s the truth.


I agree with this. 3 superstars, including 2 of the best ever scoring and/or creating for others and Irving. I can agree that the Bucks might be better... even with all the injuries of the Nets, the Bucks do have points where they were stronger than the Nets... but I have a hard time thinking that about the Hawks right now. And I might be super wrong here but...

... It's impossible for me to agree with other points of view if the only reason for saying that they are not one of the top 2 teams in the east is when they go eliminated. Besides that, trades have been made. If we start the year and assume the Nets will be healthy, we must also take notice that the Heat and the Bulls roosters aren't the same as last years. Are we supposed to think that the Bulls are still weaker than Charlotte just because we were behind them last regular season? Or that the Lakers are as much contenders in the West as the Celtics in the East because they got the same final standing? Or the same as the Knicks because they had similar records and got eliminated in the same round?
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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#995 » by TheFinishSniper » Wed Aug 4, 2021 6:43 pm

WherePipAt wrote:Every article I've read is destroying us for the Demar trade lol, hopefully they're all wrong.

I am not sure why. If salary is questionable okay i get it. But Bulls miss severly miss talent
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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#996 » by TheSuzerain » Wed Aug 4, 2021 6:50 pm

jnrjr79 wrote:
DuckIII wrote:Whether we overpaid Derozan or not is irrelevant to whether or not it was a good signing. AK chose an all in path when he traded for Vuc, and god damnit he followed up by actually going all in, bless his heart.

We’re over the cap. Being a little more over the cap is irrelevant unless we ignore meaningful talent upgrades to save money.



The problem with the Hollinger piece is the implied premise is that the goal of NBA roster construction is to acquire a team of players whose performance meets or exceeds their contract. Sure, generally that's good, but the goal of NBA roster construction is to (1) win NBA games and (2) if you're not a contender, give yourself a path to becoming one.

As fans, we should not care about whether individual players are overpaid, unless it's tying your hands and preventing other, more productive moves. All teams are going to consist of guys you think are worth less or more than their contracts, and a lot of that is just timing/salary inflation. With Derozan, if you agree it at least makes the Bulls marginally better, and particularly if you agree that his contract is not unmovable (which seems like a fair proposition), then who exactly was it the Bulls were supposed to S&T for that was available to them that would have been better?

They don't hand out Larry O'Brien trophies to teams that most accurately line up contract values to on-court performance.

They do in fact hand out Larry O'Brien trophies to teams that have the players that most exceed their contract values.

Derozan won't exceed his. Lavine will for 1 more year. Vucevic potentially can for 2 more years (position issues aside).

I don't see a window unless this is followed up with a trade for an actual superstar or PWill vastly exceeds current expectations of his ceiling.
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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#997 » by tedwilliams1999 » Wed Aug 4, 2021 6:59 pm

jnrjr79 wrote:
DuckIII wrote:Whether we overpaid Derozan or not is irrelevant to whether or not it was a good signing. AK chose an all in path when he traded for Vuc, and god damnit he followed up by actually going all in, bless his heart.

We’re over the cap. Being a little more over the cap is irrelevant unless we ignore meaningful talent upgrades to save money.



The problem with the Hollinger piece is the implied premise is that the goal of NBA roster construction is to acquire a team of players whose performance meets or exceeds their contract. Sure, generally that's good, but the goal of NBA roster construction is to (1) win NBA games and (2) if you're not a contender, give yourself a path to becoming one.

As fans, we should not care about whether individual players are overpaid, unless it's tying your hands and preventing other, more productive moves. All teams are going to consist of guys you think are worth less or more than their contracts, and a lot of that is just timing/salary inflation. With Derozan, if you agree it at least makes the Bulls marginally better, and particularly if you agree that his contract is not unmovable (which seems like a fair proposition), then who exactly was it the Bulls were supposed to S&T for that was available to them that would have been better?

They don't hand out Larry O'Brien trophies to teams that most accurately line up contract values to on-court performance.


Excellent post, and this is why we won't get any love from media members who are analytically driven. Their kinds aren't wired to think in the same way that a front office would.

The second issue that I've seen discussed across the mainstream media is basketball fit. They keep discussing the fact that Derozan is a mid range shooter only, and this means that he does not fit into any team. I disagree with this adamantly - we've surrounding Derozan by the exact team that he should thrive in. He's gotten so much better as a half court playmaker, as evidenced by his assist numbers and his pick and roll numbers from last year. He'll be surrounding by shooters in Chicago, and I'm excited to see the outcome.

Furthermore, we've simultaneously placed Lonzo in the best possible situation - he essentially is the 4th option when it comes to half court offense, and he doesn't need to create anything for us other than off secondary options. His main weakness is completely negated on this team, and that's exciting. Lavine also has a perimeter star that he can play off of, allowing him to fully be optimized off the ball.

The one guy I'd have to see more of in this offense is Vuc - his numbers are probably going to take the biggest hit from anyone now that he isn't a focal piece any more. We'll have to utilize him in the post, but Derozan's man won't be far behind. I'll be curious to see how the interior post up office plays out this year.

Lastly, the defensive struggles are certainly a valid concern. The media talks about how we won't be able to defend anything, and this is likely to be true to a certain extent. We aren't done in free agency, however, and we have more moves to make as the year progresses.

Though we likely did overpay for Derozan by several million, I'm not sure that it really matters. Do we actually need that cap space or the most draft capital in these upcoming years? Probably not but who knows, we may regret having our assets tied up if a stud becomes available.
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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#998 » by gobullschi » Wed Aug 4, 2021 7:21 pm

League Circles wrote:We underpaid for Demar in terms of salary IMO.


I don’t understand the narrative that DeMar DeRozan is over-paid. Compared to who?

All these guys are paid more:

    Kris Middleton
    Gordon Hayward
    Tobias Harris
    Brandon Ingram
    Paul George
    Andrew Wiggins

IMO, that’s just the going rate for a quality small forward.
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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#999 » by Mbrahv0528 » Wed Aug 4, 2021 7:26 pm

ZOMG wrote:There will not be enough basketballs for this team next season.

It will be extremely difficult to play Zach, Vuc, DeRozan and Lonzo at the same time. People like to think everybody's gonna hold hands and sing Kumbaya, but they forget how completely Zach and Vuc dominated the offense at the end of last season.

Some people are not gonna be happy once the honeymoon period is over.
This is a suuuuper hot take.. and your own biased opinion. I think you're wrong and overreacting/exaggerating for dramatic affect to be quite honest. This is the first time since the Rosev years that we can actually be excited about Bulls basketball and that's really not debatable.

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Re: Official: Bulls get DeRozan! 3yrs/$85m PG. 17 update 

Post#1000 » by HomoSapien » Wed Aug 4, 2021 7:33 pm

I wonder if Donovan and AKME see DeRozan as their version of Chris Paul. Obviously, Paul's in a completely different tier, but DeRozan could be our version of that stabilizing veteran leadership that helps propel the young guys to success. At one point DeRozan had been to the playoffs for six consecutive seasons, so while he may not be a champion he does know what it takes to be successful.
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