It's Personal, Not Personnel

Post #1 » by **kingkirk** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:18 am

I'm extremely discouraged reading the game thread and post game thread, with posts suggesting that Gasol is to blame for our floundering defense and average offense. To me, it's a load of crap.

I also find it troubling that the first sign of trouble occurring, this board is looking at wheeling and dealing, as if a trade for Arron Afflalo or Wilson Chandler is going to solve the clear personal/chemistry issues we're having.

There is something off with this team. Something has broken down behind the scenes.

Effort, intensity and energy have been lacking for the entire season, even when we won 12 of 15 games through Dec, but something is 'different' now. We've lost 6 of our last 8 games. I don't recall that ever happening in the Thibodeau era, even when we've been without Rose and battled with an inferior roster.

Here are some of the troubling signs we're hearing.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NickFriedell/status/557411854411386881[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/557382884685017088[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NickFriedell/status/557381635486654465[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/555566431564468224[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/suntimes_hoops/status/557388915125264384[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/suntimes_hoops/status/556265517213032449[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/suntimes_hoops/status/556266197499785217[/tweet]

I don't want this thread to be about rotations, personnel, trades or any other bull. We're hearing and reading stuff about this team that we've never seen or heard before.

We've had rotational issues, carrying lesser players etc in years past.

Something is up, or maybe down.

A team doesn't just fall off or lose it's intensity like this without something happening.

We've spoken continuously about Thibs losing this group, but it may not be it. Perhaps there is a rift between the FO and Thibodeau that is sapping the energy of the group. Maybe its a Jen vs Thibodeau issue? It could possibly be a player rift. Rose vs ?, etc. Who knows.

Whatever it is, to me, it is clear that something toxic has affected this group. We've had bad players on this team in prior seasons that have been inferior players, but we've maintained more effort all season long.

Yes, Gasol is not a good defender, but he alone is not the reason the defense has been amongst the worst in the league in the last 2 weeks. We've been rated around the 8-13 mark in defense all season long. What is driving it dropping even further, to the point where a team like the Sixers is better on that end?

This team's issue is not the talent of the players. We play in the Eastern conference. If it were a cohesive group that was playing with effort and for each other, we wouldn't being losing like this.

Something else is eating away at this team, and it could be our undoing. I don't remember this much drama surrounding our on court performances in very, very long time.

TimRobbins · Post #2 » by **TimRobbins** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:38 am

I've pointed this out in the PG thread. I think the players no longer accept Rose's leadership since he can't do the things he used to. Too many players are trying to get theirs instead of playing team ball. Jimmy is trying to get his (contract year), Taj is trying to get his, Gasol is a black hole and Rose insists on being a 3 pt shooter.

I think the locker room is falling apart. There's where it starts.

Eesee1 · Post #3 » by **Eesee1** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:39 am

Rose and Noah not being happy with Pau coming in and being a vocal locker room guy, Taj might not be happy about Pau starting over him, Rose might resent Jimmy and Pau becoming solid co-#1 options with him. Both of them usually step back a bit if they're cold from the field, but not Derrick.

Thibs expecting full effort, not notes from Jen Swanson excusing Rose and Noah from practice drills.

To change what I've said before, both Jimmy and Taj might be caught between loyalty to Rose and recognizing that Rose is not acting like a leader on the court right now. I think those two are in limbo. It may also be affecting other guys like Niko.

Rose and his faction may be trying to direct attention toward Pau as the newcomer because Rose and Noah have been crushing disappointments overall this season. Is it possible Rose felt threatened or challenged by Gasol's big game against MIL? He sure got hot quickly after that game and no, I don't expect his 3pt shooting to maintain the percentage of the past several games.

PMONSTER · Post #4 » by **PMONSTER** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:49 am

I'm not a detective. Everyone seems to know what's going on but I don't nor do I pretend to. The fact that so many people will be willing to say that it all falls on Derrick Rose is suspect to me. I'm not really into the whole locker room discussion especially when I'm not in the locker room. All we can really do is judge what we see on the court.

Post #5 » by **GimmeDat** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:58 am

It's weird, especially considering the unity of this group throughout Thibs tenure here. Because we're not privy to all this in-house stuff, it's very hard to speculate/discuss.

The first thing you naturally look at is what's changed from this season to last. Boozer out, Pau in seems like the obvious change. If anything, you'd think that would be a positive. Boozer, a good teammate and mediocre player, Pau, a good teammate and very good player. I hesitantly suggest that Boozer was an important locker room influence. You'd think Pau would be every bit as positive in that sense as well though, so I don't see that as being an issue.

The Ron Adams situation was an unusual one, and was awkward for Thibs and the players who were obviously on his side. Seems weird that the FO would be influencing these issues though.

Thibs 'circle' comments suggest there's some friction between coach and some players at least, it's very vague though and hard to read in to. Cowley's tweets are very unusual... Noah, Rose, Snell on the edge of his circle? Is there any substance to these comments, or is it just Cowley talking? If it's true, then it fits into Cowley's narrative that Thibs disapproves of Rose/Noah not playing through injuries/hard enough, etc. That seems like such an unusual narrative though; Rose has been playing hard and Thibs has been praising him for finally playing with his old edge, and Noah always leaves it on the court, can't ask much more from him this season considering his condition. The only thing that fits in with this idea is Jen letting Rose/Jo take training lighter. I strongly feel that Thibs training intensity is not smart or sustainable though.

Also, Rose and Noah are the two guys to often speak up and publicly discuss the issues - would Rose and Noah be speaking out loud about these team issues in the manner that they are if they were the culprits?

Something's up right now, no idea what it is though. If anything, I thought this team would be reinvigorated with the fresh face of Pau and the long awaited return of Derrick. The tough times are supposed to be behind us, the adversity ravaged years of battling undermanned to sneak into the playoffs the last few years, but somehow, they seem more mentally exhausted than ever.

Polynice4Pippen · Post #6 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:03 am

All the talk about a fractured locker room is always laughable. Teams with awful locker rooms win championships as much as teams with great locker rooms. Go read "The Jordan Rules". Bottom line, the team isn't defending worth a damn, not rebounding worth a damn, and not matching the opponents effort and energy. Jo was playing at half speed, Derrick's still a little tentative, Pau's just old and wants to conserve himself for the playoffs, Jimmy's probably a little tired. It was the exact same locker room a month ago when the team was cruising.

The single biggest key to this team turning it around in my eyes is a healthy, energetic Joakim Noah back in DPOY form. He's the heartbeat of the defense, his communication, his leadership, his emotion, his help defense, all qualities which were mentioned as lacking right now from this team. And with the defense and rebounding will come transition opportunities, easy baskets. I don't expect the Bulls to fully work their way out of this funk until Jo is back AND HEALTHY, not the shell of himself he was the past few weeks. So maybe not until the all-star break. Just gotta suck it up and get through it until then.

TimRobbins · Post #7 » by **TimRobbins** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:05 am

Polynice4Pippen wrote:The single biggest key to this team turning it around in my eyes is a healthy, energetic Joakim Noah back in DPOY form. He's the heartbeat of the defense, his communication, his leadership, his emotion, his help defense, all qualities which were mentioned as lacking right now from this team. And with the defense and rebounding will come transition opportunities, easy baskets. I don't expect the Bulls to fully work their way out of this funk until Jo is back AND HEALTHY, not the shell of himself he was the past few weeks. So maybe not until the all-star break. Just gotta suck it up and get through it until then.

Who says that's even going to happen?

Cowbulls · Post #8 » by **Cowbulls** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:06 am

I know exactly what's happening. Rumors are circling that at the beginning of the season, the players were told that before each game we would select some lucky fan from the crowd to do absolutely nothing and get 30 minutes a night playing time. The players were fine with this until the same lucky person kept being drawn each night. The FO lied to our players and they are infuriated. When asked about it Joakim had this to say, "I told my great aunt Doris to come to the game and sit in a seat I was sure was going to be the lucky seat drawn for the night. I thought she could clog the lane a little bit with her wheelchair, and be good for a few hard fouls...instead the dude that wears these (Please Use More Appropriate Word) glasses who travels with us everywhere got drawn again. I'm sick of being lied to, so I'm faking an injury til this dude quits being drawn"

Now don't shoot the messenger, and I could be speculating here but I think the player Jo is talking about is Kirk Hinrich.

Googjob · Post #9 » by **Googjob** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:06 am

I do think there are camps forming in the organization. You have Thibs and his 100 miles an hour approach to everything. I think another camp has formed that centers around resting more, not practicing, and saving your body for the future.

Some guys are going hard all the time like Taj and Jimmy. Some guys are taking off plays frequently and not making a sacrifice like Rose and Gasol. It seems the Rose camp is winning out this season and the results show.

The Bulls have some roster issues, but I don't think they are the cause for this. What I see is a team not playing hard defensively, not making an effort on the glass, not going for loose balls, not attacking the rim, and just playing for a paycheck.

Polynice4Pippen · Post #10 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:11 am

TimRobbins wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:The single biggest key to this team turning it around in my eyes is a healthy, energetic Joakim Noah back in DPOY form. He's the heartbeat of the defense, his communication, his leadership, his emotion, his help defense, all qualities which were mentioned as lacking right now from this team. And with the defense and rebounding will come transition opportunities, easy baskets. I don't expect the Bulls to fully work their way out of this funk until Jo is back AND HEALTHY, not the shell of himself he was the past few weeks. So maybe not until the all-star break. Just gotta suck it up and get through it until then.

Who says that's even going to happen?

What kind of question is that? :lol:

TimRobbins · Post #11 » by **TimRobbins** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:14 am

Polynice4Pippen wrote:
TimRobbins wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:The single biggest key to this team turning it around in my eyes is a healthy, energetic Joakim Noah back in DPOY form. He's the heartbeat of the defense, his communication, his leadership, his emotion, his help defense, all qualities which were mentioned as lacking right now from this team. And with the defense and rebounding will come transition opportunities, easy baskets. I don't expect the Bulls to fully work their way out of this funk until Jo is back AND HEALTHY, not the shell of himself he was the past few weeks. So maybe not until the all-star break. Just gotta suck it up and get through it until then.

Who says that's even going to happen?

What kind of question is that?

You make it seem like a foregone conclusion that Noah will be back to DPOY form. I'm not sure it will happen. In fact, the odds are against him given his age and the type of game he plays. What happens if Noah isn't back?

Axl Rose · Post #12 » by **Axl Rose** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:14 am

i guess this team is just tired of smelling each others breath lol

im not gonna say its over in January....but i'll say i don't have much hope for this team right now

they just lack the heart and i don't know if they'll ever gain it

not only are they 2-6 but they have got blown out in every loss

if thats not enough to wake this team up then i don't know what will

it seems like its 07-08 all over again except we not are getting bailed out with a #1 pick this time

Googjob · Post #13 » by **Googjob** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:18 am

The minute this organization started to baby Derrick is the minute things went wrong. The Bulls won as a team. Won with the "next man up" mentality. They moved away from that and the results are showing.

SteelerSpartan · Post #14 » by **SteelerSpartan** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:20 am

Someone brought this up in the PG thread.....but what's really weird about this.....is after all the setbacks and bad luck that could have derailed them, in previous seasons, but didn't....how could whatever be going on now be worse.....just doesn't add up

Eesee1 · Post #15 » by **Eesee1** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:21 am

I think Gasol got tired of the chatter that he was at fault for the p-n-r defense and decided to tell the truth, that the guards aren't shadowing the big man like they're supposed to. That sounded to me like he thought he needed to set the record straight, whether it was inside or outside the locker room. He was calling out Rose and Brooks, probably more specifically Rose.

Just because Rose and Noah respond to media questions about the issues doesn't mean they're not at fault. They may not even think they're at fault...players and coaches send passive-aggressive callouts through the media all the time.

Polynice4Pippen · Post #16 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:22 am

TimRobbins wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:
TimRobbins wrote:
Who says that's even going to happen?

What kind of question is that?

You make it seem like a foregone conclusion that Noah will be back to DPOY form. I'm not sure it will happen. In fact, the odds are against him given his age and the type of game he plays. What happens if Noah isn't back?

Never once did I imply that it was a forgone conclusion Jo would be back at DPOY form. I simply stated that that's what it will take to turn this team around. Will it happen? We'll just have to wait and see. Wouldn't surprise me either way. I hope he takes his time coming back personally so that he's finally right and ready to be the real Joakim Noah.

Polynice4Pippen · Post #17 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:24 am

Googjob wrote:The minute this organization started to baby Derrick is the minute things went wrong. The Bulls won as a team. Won with the "next man up" mentality. They moved away from that and the results are showing.

The Bulls played their best basketball of the season in December with Derrick on a minutes restriction. What did THOSE results show?

Googjob · Post #18 » by **Googjob** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:31 am

Polynice4Pippen wrote:The Bulls played their best basketball of the season in December with Derrick on a minutes restriction. What did THOSE results show?

That the team plays better when Derrick isn't on the court?

Polynice4Pippen · Post #19 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:35 am

Googjob wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:The Bulls played their best basketball of the season in December with Derrick on a minutes restriction. What did THOSE results show?

That the team plays better when Derrick isn't on the court?

Except Derrick was on the court for all those games that month. The win over Portland, the win over Washington, the win over Toronto, the win over Houston. Try again.

Googjob · Post #20 » by **Googjob** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:37 am

Polynice4Pippen wrote:Except Derrick was on the court for all those games that month. The win over Portland, the win over Washington, the win over Toronto, the win over Houston. Try. again.

I'm not stating an opinion, I'm stating a fact. The Bulls are statistically better with Derrick off the court than on.