Explain To Me How A Trade Is Going To Fix Things

[kingkirk]

I have been vocally against trades this season. Well, at least for key rotational pieces. I've been ok in adding 2-4m type players who a dwindling on the bench elsewhere who i could see add value, at a limited cost.

I believe i am in the minority. Reading this board for what seems like an eternity, but in reality, has only been 4-5 months, is this thirst for a scoring wing.

Kevin Martin. Arron Afflalo. Wilson Chandler. Jeff Green. Any other guys making 7-9m that scores 14-18 PPG.

The thought process is that the team improves because adding this guy takes away minutes from Kirk and Snell, thus improving the quality of player in the rotation for the allotted minutes.

Makes sense. I can agree with that.

But, how does trading for Arron Afflalo really improve the team?

Is this player going to transform the offense to the point where we are no longer running these over used isolation plays?

Is this player going to magically enable how guys to get movement into their legs and actually play for each other?

Is this player going to make Derrick Rose, at minimum, average in his role in facilitating the offense?

Is this player going to solve our issues in guarding the on ball screens?

Is this player going to disallow penetration from the perimeter by opposing PGs?

Is this player able to grasp the requirements defensively in Thibodeau's system with 30 games remaining in the season?

To me, the fundamental issue with this team will need to be solved by the players and coaches that are already part of the establishment.

I haven't been able to understand why a trade has been ranked so highly as a priority for most, so please, educate me in why bringing Arron Afflalo or anyone else, will be of greater importance than the internal structural changes the team has to make on its own?

[musiqsoulchild]

Did'nt even read your post....just saw the thread title. That was enough for me to formulate my answer.

No. A trade doesnt "fix" the team for this season.

This season is ONLY about organic improvement, meeting basic expectations on defense and health.

[musiqsoulchild]

To add, there is a HIGHER chance of a trade messing things up even more.

Especially because every trade idea for the mythical wing has Dunleavy going out and either a worse shooter, a non-SF or a worse defender coming in.

Not to mention someone who will have 35 games to learn Thibs defense.

Not seeing it.

[Mech Engineer]

Just saw this thread....I will confess. I just hate reading post after post ready to trade key rotation players after a bad game or two or even a stretch of games especially even when they know they are going through an ankle sprain or some other short-term health issue.
It just doesn't make for good conversation or good read.

Plus, the main reason most teams win is because of continuity and chemistry on top of talent. There is a limit to how much talent you need and if you have 3 Carmelo Anthonys and 2 Dwight Howards on the team...that team is probably the most talented ever to be built based on pure talent. But, that team is probably not even winning 10 games.

Right now, the Bulls have multiple combinations of skill-sets including a decent starting 5. As discussed in many threads, Affalo is not going to help at all especially for the assets the Bulls will lose. A Luol Deng/Ariza type is a better fit than Affalo and hopefully the Bulls pick a player of that trend rather than make a panic trade.

The only time a trade will help this team is if they have lost the focus/desire and there are bad apples on the team. Then you need to make a change like what Detroit did with Josh Smith.

The main reason you don't need a trade is the current Bulls are already struggling with chemistry, learning schemes with a bunch of new rotation players. The Memphis example of adding Green doesn't sit because they lost one guy who was getting old and rest were together for some time. The Bulls literally have two new starters already.

[Repeat 3-peat]

No trade is truly going to help this team. This team is talented but they need to put it together and be consistent.

But trading for a shooter that'd be cheap would help this team. (Ex: Wayne Ellington)

[musiqsoulchild]

Just saw this thread....I will confess. I just hate reading post after post ready to trade key rotation players after a bad game or two or even a stretch of games especially even when they know they are going through an ankle sprain or some other short-term health issue.
It just doesn't make for good conversation or good read.

Plus, the main reason most teams win is because of continuity and chemistry on top of talent. There is a limit to how much talent you need and if you have 3 Carmelo Anthonys and 2 Dwight Howards on the team...that team is probably the most talented ever to be built based on pure talent. But, that team is probably not even winning 10 games.

Right now, the Bulls have multiple combinations of skill-sets including a decent starting 5. As discussed in many threads, Affalo is not going to help at all especially for the assets the Bulls will lose. A Luol Deng/Ariza type is a better fit than Affalo and hopefully the Bulls pick a player of that trend rather than make a panic trade.

The only time a trade will help this team is if they have lost the focus/desire and there are bad apples on the team. Then you need to make a change like what Detroit did with Josh Smith.

The main reason you don't need a trade is the current Bulls are already struggling with chemistry, learning schemes with a bunch of new rotation players. The Memphis example of adding Green doesn't sit because they lost one guy who was getting old and rest were together for some time. The Bulls literally have two new starters already.

Three new starters if you count Rose. And I think we should count him.

Deng is a great debate to have. I would trade Taj for Deng easily. And give any other picks needed to facilitate that trade.

Thats a championship team:

Rose / Brooks
Jimmy / Kirk
Deng / Dunleavy
Gasol / Niko
Noah / Nazr

We'll need to pick up a big body but thats not hard to do.

[kuly1990]

it could help, but not by much, but if DUnleavy injury is more serious, they we should trade for Arron, but him alone wont change that much!

[bearadonisdna]

real easy. u use a couple of draft picks and snell or some other guy who cant play for a guy who can actually play to take over snell, mcd's minutes or even mdj's minutes.
Pretty simple to use assets to add talent to a seemingly untalented wing rotation. And at the beginning of this seasonwe didnt know we had THIS Butler. He has been a godsemd. If he was last years jimmy , how would that unit look then?

TBH i have this logic by building my fantasy team last season. The way i see it, u need the best 3 pgs, 5 wings, and 5 bigs as possible.

The bulls are solid at pg- rose, brooks, hinrich
Bigs-Noah, POW!, Taj, Mirotic, Nazr, BareStow
wings is where the problem is.

Jimmy, MDJ, McD, Snell, Moore? 2 of these guys are getting zero minutes right now. And the other guy geting minutes is snell. So right now that unit is in disarray. An abomination actually. We are even using kirk to supplement and doing that hurts our pg rotation because ur using thats unit reservations to make up for deficiencies on the wing.

When these guys heal up, the unit will just be kinda weak minus butler. MDJ is a 3rd wing at best imo.

[musiqsoulchild]

No trade is truly going to help this team. This team is talented but they need to put it together and be consistent.

But trading for a shooter that'd be cheap would help this team. (Ex: Wayne Ellington)

I get what you're saying but you gotta look at it from both perspectives.

Why would LA let Ellington or Johnson go? They wouldnt.

[musiqsoulchild]

real easy. u use a couple of draft picks and snell or some other guy who cant play for a guy who can actually play to take over snell, mcd's minutes or even mdj's minutes.
Pretty simple to use assets to add talent to a seemingly untalented wing rotation. And at the beginning of this seasonwe didnt know we had THIS Butler. He has been a godsemd. If he was last years jimmy , how would that unit look then?

Try it.

Suggest a name thay works under the CBA for Snell's salary and 2 draft picks.

And then ask yourself if that name is worth Snell and 2 draft picks. If that name is worth that much, then ask yourself why the other team would trade him for Snell and picks.

[Repeat 3-peat]

No trade is truly going to help this team. This team is talented but they need to put it together and be consistent.

But trading for a shooter that'd be cheap would help this team. (Ex: Wayne Ellington)

I get what you're saying but you gotta look at it from both perspectives.

Why would LA let Ellington or Johnson go? They wouldnt.

I understand but come trade deadline I think LA would take two 2nd round picks for Ellington. He's a FA after the season so IMO its possible.

[Mech Engineer]

Just saw this thread....I will confess. I just hate reading post after post ready to trade key rotation players after a bad game or two or even a stretch of games especially even when they know they are going through an ankle sprain or some other short-term health issue.
It just doesn't make for good conversation or good read.

Plus, the main reason most teams win is because of continuity and chemistry on top of talent. There is a limit to how much talent you need and if you have 3 Carmelo Anthonys and 2 Dwight Howards on the team...that team is probably the most talented ever to be built based on pure talent. But, that team is probably not even winning 10 games.

Right now, the Bulls have multiple combinations of skill-sets including a decent starting 5. As discussed in many threads, Affalo is not going to help at all especially for the assets the Bulls will lose. A Luol Deng/Ariza type is a better fit than Affalo and hopefully the Bulls pick a player of that trend rather than make a panic trade.

The only time a trade will help this team is if they have lost the focus/desire and there are bad apples on the team. Then you need to make a change like what Detroit did with Josh Smith.

The main reason you don't need a trade is the current Bulls are already struggling with chemistry, learning schemes with a bunch of new rotation players. The Memphis example of adding Green doesn't sit because they lost one guy who was getting old and rest were together for some time. The Bulls literally have two new starters already.

Three new starters if you count Rose. And I think we should count him.

Deng is a great debate to have. I would trade Taj for Deng easily. And give any other picks needed to facilitate that trade.

Thats a championship team:

Rose / Brooks
Jimmy / Kirk
Deng / Dunleavy
Gasol / Niko
Noah / Nazr

We'll need to pick up a big body but thats not hard to do.

I wouldn't trade Taj for Deng. That's not useful at all. What Deng does can be done better by Mirotic in a year or two if he learns the game well. And, when your big problem right now is how Pau and Noah are conceding layups like candy, the last person you trade is Taj. The frontcourt is already looking like they need more help. You add some 3 million backup and hoping to find the next Hassan Whiteside is a bad idea.

I know Taj has sometimes looked bad but he has been the best defending big man most of the time when he was even guarding big guys like Gortat and other massive bigs. He is not getting minutes because of the strange philosophy from Thibs to burn out Pau as much as he can.

Taj is the glue for the big guys and he can play with any of the other 3 compared to others. I am against trading because this team is not filled with superstar talent as Miami had to jettison pieces.

They have enough star talent but need a lot of additional depth unlike a Miami team did. They need to add and genuinely need a 10-11 man rotation with varied skill-sets. Addition is the theme for this team and not subtraction or replacement.

[kuly1990]

what Deng does can be done better by Mirotic?? totatally different players, Mirotic skills will never be those that Deng has, and vice versa

[Mech Engineer]

what Deng does can be done better by Mirotic?? totatally different players, Mirotic skills will never be those that Deng has, and vice versa

Deng played some Stretch 4 on offense and his skills was rebounding, playing without the ball and even guarding tall players. Deng was not a good defender against quicker, smaller wings. He was a wiry tall guy. Mirotic is nowhere the defender Deng was/is but he will improve.

Mirotic has been bad at SF but he will improve as he gets reps. He is a multi-tool guy and I agree he is not a defender like Deng right now. He actually has been terrible as a defender but what is the point of losing Taj when Deng's skills will not overlap anything close to what Taj brings. Mirotic can do a lot like what Deng can do on offense.

If it is for this year, it doesn't make sense to lose Taj. For next year, you can add Deng and slowly incorporate Mirotic into being the best possible player.

[Leslie Forman]

It sure helped Cleveland. It sure helped Detroit ten years ago.

I'm sure there are some people who are bored and just want a trade for the hell of it, but this sounds like being against a trade just for the hell of it.

I don't know what kind of trades are out there to be had, but if the Bulls front office isn't blowing up every other teams phone trying to see what's available, but just standing pat and thinking they have "enough", that's not a strategy, that's just laziness.

[musiqsoulchild]

It sure helped Cleveland. It sure helped Detroit ten years ago.

I'm sure there are some people who are bored and just want a trade for the hell of it, but this sounds like being against a trade just for the hell of it.

I don't know what kind of trades are out there to be had, but if the Bulls front office isn't blowing up every other teams phone trying to see what's available, but just standing pat and thinking they have "enough", that's not a strategy, that's just laziness.

Lets work back from your last word.

Do you think this front office is lazy?

If yes, then you have your answer on why there are no trades.
If no, then it must be that think we have enough. So, there are no trades.

If you want trades, you should choose a different adjective than lazy.

[kuly1990]

what Deng does can be done better by Mirotic?? totatally different players, Mirotic skills will never be those that Deng has, and vice versa

Deng played some Stretch 4 on offense and his skills was rebounding, playing without the ball and even guarding tall players. Deng was not a good defender against quicker, smaller wings. He was a wiry tall guy. Mirotic is nowhere the defender Deng was/is but he will improve.

Mirotic has been bad at SF but he will improve as he gets reps. He is a multi-tool guy and I agree he is not a defender like Deng right now. He actually has been terrible as a defender but what is the point of losing Taj when Deng's skills will not overlap anything close to what Taj brings. Mirotic can do a lot like what Deng can do on offense.

i dont see them being close in style of play on defense or offense, i think Mirotic can be great offensive player, in different way than Deng, as pick and pop guy and maybe even on post ups, and those were not deng strengths, on defense i hope Mirotic can be decent, but im pretty sure not as good as Deng...I hope Mirotic does not play the three anymore! i dont want to trade Taj for Deng, just commented on Mirotic and Deng thing...

[TimRobbins]

Well, it depends on which trade you're thinking about. If you trade Rose for CP3 then that fixes pretty much everything, but the Clippers probably won't do that.

Aaron Afflalo doesn't solve all our problems, but he does help this team a lot on both ends of the floor.

[NecessaryEvil]

Well, it depends on which trade you're thinking about. If you trade Rose for CP3 then that fixes pretty much everything, but the Clippers probably won't do that.

Aaron Afflalo doesn't solve all our problems, but he does help this team a lot on both ends of the floor.

LOL CP3 doesn't get us past the 2nd round. Wall, Lowry & Irving would destroy, him DESTROY.

[TimRobbins]

Well, it depends on which trade you're thinking about. If you trade Rose for CP3 then that fixes pretty much everything, but the Clippers probably won't do that.

Aaron Afflalo doesn't solve all our problems, but he does help this team a lot on both ends of the floor.

LOL CP3 doesn't get us past the 2nd round. Wall, Lowry & Irving would destroy, him DESTROY.

Right now, I'm more worried about self-destruction by our PG, than I am worried about other players destroying us. Just give me anybody who can dribble and is willing to pass the ball.