The rise and fall of BG7

Rili67 · Post #1 » by **Rili67** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 5:20 am

Hey guys, we have probably broached this subject before, but what do you think is the reason for BG's drop off post Bulls.
Was it the dysfunctional piston's team, a drop in playing ability/skill level/age, getting paid, or something else?

I really liked BG and his killer offensive mentality when he played for the Bulls. Maybe I'm brushing side the the obvious defensive issue he gave us, but still.

Rumors of Tobias Harris had me thinking, what if BG was included in a potential deal? Could he be useful at all anymore?

Just pondering's of a Bulls/BG fan...

Post #2 » by **GimmeDat** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 5:46 am

I didn't follow basketball to the same extent than I do now, so I'm not informed to answer the primary question, but in regards to him being useful now, absolutely.

He's had a bit of a dropoff the last month or so, so it's hurt his season statistics considerably, but he's still averaging 16ppg on 44% FG/38% 3PT (per/36) . He's looked good when he's gotten minutes, but for the most part he's an afterthought in Orlando's rotation, unfortunately.

If he returned here, at worst, he's a solid shooter off the bench. At best, I think he can have a resurgent year if given the opportunity, becoming a 15ppg 6th man. While not 'prime/Bulls' BG, he'd still be a great pickup.

It's not a great situation for him in Orlando because he's behind Oladipo and Fournier, and Willie Green's taking up some minutes at SG as well. He comes here, he should definitely be above Snell and Moore. The only problem is he reduces Aaron Brooks' role. Considering Gordon is also undersized/not good defensively, there's not really much difference between Brooks playing minutes at the 2 and playing Gordon minutes here. He's a bit redundant.

Axl Rose · Post #3 » by **Axl Rose** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 6:19 am

he hurt his ankle in his first year with the Pistons which he had to get surgery on and that might have caused change in his explosiveness/lift/jumping style on his jumpshot

it could also be and/or the fact he lost his edge...pistons weren't any good and he was constantly shuffled around and maybe it just affected his worth ethic and he stop working as hard as he did with us

WIN · Post #4 » by **WIN** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 6:25 am

He still had a lot to offer a team like the Bulls but decided to leave a real team that knew how to use him for the Pistons who were/are a mess.

He got his big payday payday, so I'm sure he's got no complaints.

Crazy to think we had him, Rose & Salmons at one point....was pretty fun, specially that Boston series.

kodo · Post #5 » by **kodo** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 7:30 am

He was a great shooter but never developed any other part of his game, even dribbling. On the Bulls he was our primary scorer and was able to control the tempo of the offense to suit him, take his time, and shoot in the situations he preferred and really didn't get $.02 about anyone else on the offense. It was ideal for him.

But Ben's game wasn't going to appeal to a lot of other teams. He shot a lot long 2s...A LOT of them. He couldn't finish anywhere near the rim so if the defender played him tight to deny the 3 he took a dribble in and shot a long 2.

Before Rose got here when he was our main offensive player the Bulls were always a poor offense. 21st, 23rd, 26th in the league. Defenders denied him the 3, he couldn't dribble or finish to the rim, therefore didn't draw fouls, and mainly shot long 2s as the bulk of his attempts. In 07 he shot 46% at the rim...that's crazy, that's worse than Rubio.

I think ultimately he was extremely good at the worst shot in basketball, and when he got to Detroit with a ton of other guard options in Stuckey who could drive, Rip who could shoot anywhere, and even Bynum who could pass...he just didn't get the rock. And he seemed to stop caring after that.

Post #6 » by **Rerisen** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 8:39 am

I think the problem was his lack of great athleticism and size as a SG. Players with those disadvantages just rarely continue to perform great once they start getting up near 30. Bad roster makeup in Detroit and terrible team probably robbed his last high quality capable years, then became disgruntled or de-motivated in Charlotte, feuded with this coach, and now he's 31.

He's having something of a small comeback year in Orlando (15.8 pts /36, .542 TS%) but is far from the player he was. Skiles actually got Ben to perform passable position defense, but I don't think he's done that in 5 years.

Kodo's breakdown above would make you think he was some kind of inefficient terrible chucker though.

Ben's peak efficiency doesn't lie. He was a great scorer for a couple years, though never should have been a #1 option. The Bulls offense was never poor on his account. He remains 34th all time in career 3PT%, ahead of players like Ray Allen, Glen Rice, and JJ Redick.

Pts / TS%

07: 21.4, .572
08: 18.6, .558
09: 20.7, .573

Three straight years more efficient than MVP Derrick Rose, despite being tasked as #1 on a team without any other great offensive options.

ATRAIN53 · Post #7 » by **ATRAIN53** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 4:01 pm

It's still a mystery to me.

Last season here he was averaging 20PPG and we were .500 and made the playoffs and lost in an epic series - a series that this guy made some HUGE buckets. Should have kept him around as we still are looking for his shooting.

They should have paid him instead of Luol.

If he could have dunked the ball at will, he'd have been a legend here.
Hands too small. Amazing shooter, cold blooded.

kyrv · Post #8 » by **kyrv** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 4:53 pm

AirGordon7 wrote:he hurt his ankle in his first year with the Pistons which he had to get surgery on and that might have caused change in his explosiveness/lift/jumping style on his jumpshot

it could also be and/or the fact he lost his edge...pistons weren't any good and he was constantly shuffled around and maybe it just affected his worth ethic and he stop working as hard as he did with us

I'll pass on guys that sign huge deals then decide they don't have to work as hard.

Red Larrivee · Post #9 » by **Red Larrivee** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 4:58 pm

He played on teams that didn't value or utilize his scoring as much as Chicago did and became less of a factor. He was the #1 option in Chicago for the majority of his tenure, even when he was coming off the bench. Situation became so bad, his production rapidly declined.

Time to go watch Ben Gordon 4th quarter moments with the Bulls and weep.

musiqsoulchild · Post #10 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 5:00 pm

FO wont do it....but if I had a say in things, I would trade BG for Kirk as their deals presently stand.

BG can still contribute without leaking out much on the other end of the floor.

Kirk, today, is doing his best Eric Snow impression in LeBron's last years....meaning he's a zombie.

Post #11 » by **DuckIII** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 5:05 pm

He had a crappy and selfish attitude that finally caught up to him once he went to a situation where he thought he'd be the man, and wasn't. When that happened in Detroit, and then continued to happen in Charlotte, he just kind of gave up.

Axl Rose · Post #12 » by **Axl Rose** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 5:11 pm

kyrv wrote:
AirGordon7 wrote:he hurt his ankle in his first year with the Pistons which he had to get surgery on and that might have caused change in his explosiveness/lift/jumping style on his jumpshot

it could also be and/or the fact he lost his edge...pistons weren't any good and he was constantly shuffled around and maybe it just affected his worth ethic and he stop working as hard as he did with us

I'll pass on guys that sign huge deals then decide they don't have to work as hard.

well we don't know if that was the reason

maybe his skills just diminished

pb-ceo · Post #13 » by **pb-ceo** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 5:14 pm

musiqsoulchild wrote:FO wont do it....but if I had a say in things, I would trade BG for Kirk as their deals presently stand.

BG can still contribute without leaking out much on the other end of the floor.

Kirk, today, is doing his best Eric Snow impression in LeBron's last years....meaning he's a zombie.

he may be a zombie. but he's Our Zombie. at least for the next year and half. garpax has always taken care of X bulls who are past their expiration date.

musiqsoulchild · Post #14 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 5:17 pm

AirGordon7 wrote:
kyrv wrote:
AirGordon7 wrote:he hurt his ankle in his first year with the Pistons which he had to get surgery on and that might have caused change in his explosiveness/lift/jumping style on his jumpshot

it could also be and/or the fact he lost his edge...pistons weren't any good and he was constantly shuffled around and maybe it just affected his worth ethic and he stop working as hard as he did with us

I'll pass on guys that sign huge deals then decide they don't have to work as hard.

well we don't know if that was the reason

maybe his skills just diminished

There can be no other reason...he was pretty sucky after he left here.

The funny thing is that he would complain about not starting and having to come off the bench.

Guess what...he had to do that in every other team he went to.

BG made bad decisions in terms of his NBA legacy. He also made only slightly more money than he could have made if he took our contract offer.

kyrv · Post #15 » by **kyrv** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 5:20 pm

AirGordon7 wrote:
kyrv wrote:
AirGordon7 wrote:he hurt his ankle in his first year with the Pistons which he had to get surgery on and that might have caused change in his explosiveness/lift/jumping style on his jumpshot

it could also be and/or the fact he lost his edge...pistons weren't any good and he was constantly shuffled around and maybe it just affected his worth ethic and he stop working as hard as he did with us

I'll pass on guys that sign huge deals then decide they don't have to work as hard.

well we don't know if that was the reason

maybe his skills just diminished

You wrote that that was the reason. Help me out here.

kyrv · Post #16 » by **kyrv** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 5:22 pm

DuckIII wrote:He had a crappy and selfish attitude that finally caught up to him once he went to a situation where he thought he'd be the man, and wasn't. When that happened in Detroit, and then continued to happen in Charlotte, he just kind of gave up.

You're not wrong. Still, it's good to finally have some Ben Gordon discussion here.

Axl Rose · Post #17 » by **Axl Rose** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 5:26 pm

kyrv wrote:
AirGordon7 wrote:
kyrv wrote:
I'll pass on guys that sign huge deals then decide they don't have to work as hard.

well we don't know if that was the reason

maybe his skills just diminished

You wrote that that was the reason. Help me out here.

yeah but im not presenting it as a fact is what im saying

who really knows what happened

Stampiron · Post #18 » by **Stampiron** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 5:46 pm

DuckIII wrote:He had a crappy and selfish attitude that finally caught up to him once he went to a situation where he thought he'd be the man, and wasn't. When that happened in Detroit, and then continued to happen in Charlotte, he just kind of gave up.

One thing I always remember about Gordon was a blurb in the paper that said "This is the second year in a row that Gordon's teammates have passed him over for Captain after he put his name in."

I don't want to overstate the importance of that, but it's a datapoint at least. He was arguably the star of the team at that point but didn't command the respect to get voted a Captain.

SpinninHouse · Post #19 » by **SpinninHouse** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 5:55 pm

Some of the best performances in Bulls history have been by Ben Gordon. I've watched the Bulls for over 30 years and obviously the highest ranking ones are largely by MJ. But BG had a few electric moments. That Boston series is probably the greatest 7 game series all of time.

Having said that, he proved he cared more about money than anything when he signed with Detriot. He's rotted away ever since. I knew at UCONN that he was cold-blooded and had ice in veins. Unfortunately he had brutal ball-handling skills, struggled defensively, and simply didn't care enough about winning titles.

He got his money so he got what he wanted.

SpinninHouse · Post #20 » by **SpinninHouse** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 5:57 pm

kyrv wrote:
DuckIII wrote:He had a crappy and selfish attitude that finally caught up to him once he went to a situation where he thought he'd be the man, and wasn't. When that happened in Detroit, and then continued to happen in Charlotte, he just kind of gave up.

You're not wrong. Still, it's good to finally have some Ben Gordon discussion here.

A hundred years from now Bulls posters on RealGM will be cursing the ashes of GarPax for not re-acquiring him.