Bulls Play Type Stats

[kodo]

Now that the NBA is tracking Synergy style play type stats (seems like the data is directly from Synergy?), I thought it might be interesting to see some notable ones.

OFFENSE

Isolation (points per possession)
Rose: 1.08 PPP (93rd percentile)
Mirotic: 0.91 PPP (71st percentile)
Butler: 0.89 PPP (64th percentile)


P&R Ballhandler
Butler: 0.95 PPP, 91st percentile
Brooks: 0.91 PPP, 86th percentile
Rose: 0.76 PPP, 52nd percentile

P&R Rollman
Pau: 1.04 PPP, 63rd percentile
Mirotic: 0.98 PPP, 50th percentile
Taj: 0.88 PPP, 30th percentile
Noah: 0.70 PPP, 6th percentile

Post-Up
Mirotic: 1.13 PPP, 94th percentile
Butler: 1.04 PPP, 91st percentile
Taj: 0.94 PPP, 74th percentile
Pau: 0.88 PPP, 57th percentile
Noah: 0.39 PPP, 1.6th percentile

Spot Up Shooting
Pau: 1.04 PPP, 69th percentile
Mirotic: 1.02 PPP, 64th percentile
Joakim: 0.98 PPP, 57th percentile
Kirk: 0.90 PPP, 42nd percentile
Taj: 0.72 PPP, 14th percentile

Defensive Stats

Defensive Isolation
Tony Snell 0.40 PPP, 98.6th percentile
Rose: 0.74 PPP, 71st percentile
Mike Dunleavy 0.75 PPP, 69th percentile
Aaron Brooks 0.78 PPP, 62nd percentile
Noah 0.80 PPP, 58th percentile
Jimmy Butler 0.86 PPP, 46th percentile
Kirk Hinrich 0.86 PPP, 46th percentile

Defensive P&R Ballhandler
Moore 0.68 PPP 78th percentile
Butler 0.76 PPP 57th percentile
Snell 0.81 PPP 37th percentile
Kirk 0.83 PPP 33rd percentile
Rose 0.84 PPP 30th percentile

Defensive Roll Man
Taj: 0.64 PPP, 85th percentile
Noah: 0.74 PPP, 71st percentile
Mirotic: 0.79 PPP, 65th percentile
Pau: 0.86 PPP, 50th percentile

Defensive Post Up
Pau: 0.74 PPP, 77th percentile
Taj Gibson: 0.76 PPP, 72nd percentile
Mirotic 0.80 PPP, 60th percentile
Noah 0.89 PPP, 43rd percentile

[sco]

Good find and info Kodo!

Shows how bad Noah has been, but I will be optimistic that our trend is good now with MDJ back, and guys getting in the groove.

[dice]

moral of the story offensively: post up anyone but noah, keep him at the elbow to facilitate and shoot the very occasional jumper. keep taj down low, use pau and niko for the P&R

also more confirmation that kirk's former strengths (spot-up shooting and defense) have deteriorated

[kingkirk]

If i am reading this correctly, based on these stats, Tony Snell is an elite one on one isolation defender. The Lebron Stopper.

[dice]

If i am reading this correctly, based on these stats, Tony Snell is an elite one on one isolation defender. The Lebron Stopper.

appears to be a super-small sample size

top 60 shot blockers ranked by oppt FG% at rim:

37.80% Rudy Gobert
39.80% Al-Farouq Aminu
41.00% Andrew Bogut
41.10% Serge Ibaka
42.20% Roy Hibbert
42.70% Jerami Grant
43.60% Hassan Whiteside
44.00% Klay Thompson
44.40% KJ McDaniels
45.30% Dwight Howard
45.30% Kendrick Perkins
45.40% Samuel Dalembert
46.10% Larry Sanders
46.30% LaMarcus Aldridge
46.40% Danny Green
46.40% Derrick Favors
46.50% Draymond Green
46.60% Kyle O'Quinn
46.70% Jusuf Nurkic
46.80% Nerlens Noel

46.80% Robin Lopez
47.00% Taj Gibson
47.00% Kevin Seraphin
47.10% Kosta Koufos
47.30% Jonas Valanciunas
47.40% Tim Duncan
47.50% Timofey Mozgov
47.80% Bismack Biyombo
48.50% DeMarcus Cousins
48.50% Omer Asik
48.60% Marcin Gortat
48.70% Anthony Davis
48.70% Pau Gasol
48.70% Steven Adams
48.80% Andre Drummond
48.80% Marc Gasol
49.00% Brandan Wright
49.50% DeAndre Jordan
50.10% Brook Lopez
50.50% Cody Zeller

50.80% Tristan Thompson
51.20% Al Horford
51.20% Josh Smith
51.30% John Henson
51.40% Tyson Chandler
51.70% Amir Johnson
52.20% Chris Kaman
52.30% Alex Len
52.60% Joakim Noah
52.80% James Harden
52.90% Miles Plumlee
54.00% Mason Plumlee
54.10% James Johnson
54.10% Nikola Vucevic
54.40% Ed Davis
54.40% Giannis Antetokounmpo
55.00% Al Jefferson
55.80% Paul Millsap
56.30% Jordan Hill
56.80% Gorgui Dieng

[Rerisen]

moral of the story offensively: post up anyone but noah

The moral for us is easy enough to avoid.

The moral for our opponents is troubling for us: Throw/hide any garbage big defender on Noah and you'll be fine.

I.e. Kevin Love.

[Stratmaster]

moral of the story offensively: post up anyone but noah

The moral for us is easy enough to avoid.

The moral for our opponents is troubling for us: Throw/hide any garbage big defender on Noah and you'll be fine.

I.e. Kevin Love.

Re, you have to know that the OP has my head spinning on my neck, smoke blowing out my ears and I am screaming at an empty room. My brain is on overload trying to consider where to begin in explaining why these stats are absolutely meaningless.

But you would think that just looking at the way the players are ranked would be enough said, right?

[Stratmaster]

Now that the NBA is tracking Synergy style play type stats (seems like the data is directly from Synergy?), I thought it might be interesting to see some notable ones.

OFFENSE

Isolation (points per possession)
Rose: 1.08 PPP (93rd percentile)
Mirotic: 0.91 PPP (71st percentile)
Butler: 0.89 PPP (64th percentile)


P&R Ballhandler
Butler: 0.95 PPP, 91st percentile
Brooks: 0.91 PPP, 86th percentile
Rose: 0.76 PPP, 52nd percentile

P&R Rollman
Pau: 1.04 PPP, 63rd percentile
Mirotic: 0.98 PPP, 50th percentile
Taj: 0.88 PPP, 30th percentile
Noah: 0.70 PPP, 6th percentile

Post-Up
Mirotic: 1.13 PPP, 94th percentile
Butler: 1.04 PPP, 91st percentile
Taj: 0.94 PPP, 74th percentile
Pau: 0.88 PPP, 57th percentile
Noah: 0.39 PPP, 1.6th percentile

Spot Up Shooting
Pau: 1.04 PPP, 69th percentile
Mirotic: 1.02 PPP, 64th percentile
Joakim: 0.98 PPP, 57th percentile
Kirk: 0.90 PPP, 42nd percentile
Taj: 0.72 PPP, 14th percentile

Defensive Stats

Defensive Isolation
Tony Snell 0.40 PPP, 98.6th percentile
Rose: 0.74 PPP, 71st percentile
Mike Dunleavy 0.75 PPP, 69th percentile
Aaron Brooks 0.78 PPP, 62nd percentile
Noah 0.80 PPP, 58th percentile
Jimmy Butler 0.86 PPP, 46th percentile
Kirk Hinrich 0.86 PPP, 46th percentile

Defensive P&R Ballhandler
Moore 0.68 PPP 78th percentile
Butler 0.76 PPP 57th percentile
Snell 0.81 PPP 37th percentile
Kirk 0.83 PPP 33rd percentile
Rose 0.84 PPP 30th percentile

Defensive Roll Man
Taj: 0.64 PPP, 85th percentile
Noah: 0.74 PPP, 71st percentile
Mirotic: 0.79 PPP, 65th percentile
Pau: 0.86 PPP, 50th percentile

Defensive Post Up
Pau: 0.74 PPP, 77th percentile
Taj Gibson: 0.76 PPP, 72nd percentile
Mirotic 0.80 PPP, 60th percentile
Noah 0.89 PPP, 43rd percentile

So the question is, do you believe Butler is the bulls best PnR ballhandler? I wonder if there was even a large enough sample size of that actually happening to be meaningful? Mirotic is our best offensive post player? Pau is the best spot up shooter (that one isn;t quite as big a reach, actually). Snell, Rose, MDJ and Brooks are all better ISO defenders than Butler? Pau Gasol is our best post defender????

These numbers mean nothing. Not insulting your post, it is interesting to see and read; the only conclusion that you can come to is they aren't numbers you can use to compare players who play different positions, are slotted on defense against different levels of offensive players, etc.

[dice]

Now that the NBA is tracking Synergy style play type stats (seems like the data is directly from Synergy?), I thought it might be interesting to see some notable ones.

OFFENSE

Isolation (points per possession)
Rose: 1.08 PPP (93rd percentile)
Mirotic: 0.91 PPP (71st percentile)
Butler: 0.89 PPP (64th percentile)


P&R Ballhandler
Butler: 0.95 PPP, 91st percentile
Brooks: 0.91 PPP, 86th percentile
Rose: 0.76 PPP, 52nd percentile

P&R Rollman
Pau: 1.04 PPP, 63rd percentile
Mirotic: 0.98 PPP, 50th percentile
Taj: 0.88 PPP, 30th percentile
Noah: 0.70 PPP, 6th percentile

Post-Up
Mirotic: 1.13 PPP, 94th percentile
Butler: 1.04 PPP, 91st percentile
Taj: 0.94 PPP, 74th percentile
Pau: 0.88 PPP, 57th percentile
Noah: 0.39 PPP, 1.6th percentile

Spot Up Shooting
Pau: 1.04 PPP, 69th percentile
Mirotic: 1.02 PPP, 64th percentile
Joakim: 0.98 PPP, 57th percentile
Kirk: 0.90 PPP, 42nd percentile
Taj: 0.72 PPP, 14th percentile

Defensive Stats

Defensive Isolation
Tony Snell 0.40 PPP, 98.6th percentile
Rose: 0.74 PPP, 71st percentile
Mike Dunleavy 0.75 PPP, 69th percentile
Aaron Brooks 0.78 PPP, 62nd percentile
Noah 0.80 PPP, 58th percentile
Jimmy Butler 0.86 PPP, 46th percentile
Kirk Hinrich 0.86 PPP, 46th percentile

Defensive P&R Ballhandler
Moore 0.68 PPP 78th percentile
Butler 0.76 PPP 57th percentile
Snell 0.81 PPP 37th percentile
Kirk 0.83 PPP 33rd percentile
Rose 0.84 PPP 30th percentile

Defensive Roll Man
Taj: 0.64 PPP, 85th percentile
Noah: 0.74 PPP, 71st percentile
Mirotic: 0.79 PPP, 65th percentile
Pau: 0.86 PPP, 50th percentile

Defensive Post Up
Pau: 0.74 PPP, 77th percentile
Taj Gibson: 0.76 PPP, 72nd percentile
Mirotic 0.80 PPP, 60th percentile
Noah 0.89 PPP, 43rd percentile

So the question is, do you believe Butler is the bulls best PnR ballhandler? I wonder if there was even a large enough sample size of that actually happening to be meaningful? Mirotic is our best offensive post player? Pau is the best spot up shooter (that one isn;t quite as big a reach, actually). Snell, Rose, MDJ and Brooks are all better ISO defenders than Butler? Pau Gasol is our best post defender????

These numbers mean nothing.

some of those are questionable (probably sample size related), some really aren't. why would pau not be a good post defender? he's long, you don't have to move much defending in the post, there aren't many good post-up centers to defend...

[Rerisen]

Re, you have to know that the OP has my head spinning on my neck, smoke blowing out my ears and I am screaming at an empty room. My brain is on overload trying to consider where to begin in explaining why these stats are absolutely meaningless.

But you would think that just looking at the way the players are ranked would be enough said, right?

Whether the stat is meaningless or not, the conclusion is the same and one that I lamented well before I saw any stat for it.

It's a big reason our frontcourt hasn't been as dominant as many expected. Unlike say Nene and Gortat, you only need one quality defender to keep us in check.

[Stratmaster]

Now that the NBA is tracking Synergy style play type stats (seems like the data is directly from Synergy?), I thought it might be interesting to see some notable ones.

OFFENSE

Isolation (points per possession)
Rose: 1.08 PPP (93rd percentile)
Mirotic: 0.91 PPP (71st percentile)
Butler: 0.89 PPP (64th percentile)


P&R Ballhandler
Butler: 0.95 PPP, 91st percentile
Brooks: 0.91 PPP, 86th percentile
Rose: 0.76 PPP, 52nd percentile

P&R Rollman
Pau: 1.04 PPP, 63rd percentile
Mirotic: 0.98 PPP, 50th percentile
Taj: 0.88 PPP, 30th percentile
Noah: 0.70 PPP, 6th percentile

Post-Up
Mirotic: 1.13 PPP, 94th percentile
Butler: 1.04 PPP, 91st percentile
Taj: 0.94 PPP, 74th percentile
Pau: 0.88 PPP, 57th percentile
Noah: 0.39 PPP, 1.6th percentile

Spot Up Shooting
Pau: 1.04 PPP, 69th percentile
Mirotic: 1.02 PPP, 64th percentile
Joakim: 0.98 PPP, 57th percentile
Kirk: 0.90 PPP, 42nd percentile
Taj: 0.72 PPP, 14th percentile

Defensive Stats

Defensive Isolation
Tony Snell 0.40 PPP, 98.6th percentile
Rose: 0.74 PPP, 71st percentile
Mike Dunleavy 0.75 PPP, 69th percentile
Aaron Brooks 0.78 PPP, 62nd percentile
Noah 0.80 PPP, 58th percentile
Jimmy Butler 0.86 PPP, 46th percentile
Kirk Hinrich 0.86 PPP, 46th percentile

Defensive P&R Ballhandler
Moore 0.68 PPP 78th percentile
Butler 0.76 PPP 57th percentile
Snell 0.81 PPP 37th percentile
Kirk 0.83 PPP 33rd percentile
Rose 0.84 PPP 30th percentile

Defensive Roll Man
Taj: 0.64 PPP, 85th percentile
Noah: 0.74 PPP, 71st percentile
Mirotic: 0.79 PPP, 65th percentile
Pau: 0.86 PPP, 50th percentile

Defensive Post Up
Pau: 0.74 PPP, 77th percentile
Taj Gibson: 0.76 PPP, 72nd percentile
Mirotic 0.80 PPP, 60th percentile
Noah 0.89 PPP, 43rd percentile

So the question is, do you believe Butler is the bulls best PnR ballhandler? I wonder if there was even a large enough sample size of that actually happening to be meaningful? Mirotic is our best offensive post player? Pau is the best spot up shooter (that one isn;t quite as big a reach, actually). Snell, Rose, MDJ and Brooks are all better ISO defenders than Butler? Pau Gasol is our best post defender????

These numbers mean nothing.

some of those are questionable (probably sample size related), some really aren't. why would pau not be a good post defender? he's long, you don't have to move much defending in the post, there aren't many good post-up centers to defend...

Well, you have the DPOY and Taj on the team. Who would you want defending someone in the post one-on-one in the clutch?

[Stratmaster]

Re, you have to know that the OP has my head spinning on my neck, smoke blowing out my ears and I am screaming at an empty room. My brain is on overload trying to consider where to begin in explaining why these stats are absolutely meaningless.

But you would think that just looking at the way the players are ranked would be enough said, right?

Whether the stat is meaningless or not, the conclusion is the same and one that I lamented well before I saw any stat for it.

It's a big reason our frontcourt hasn't been as dominant as many expected. Unlike say Nene and Gortat, you only need one quality defender to keep us in check.

I was just funnin'. I agree 100% that Noah isn't a go-to guy in the post. Who knew?

[dice]

So the question is, do you believe Butler is the bulls best PnR ballhandler? I wonder if there was even a large enough sample size of that actually happening to be meaningful? Mirotic is our best offensive post player? Pau is the best spot up shooter (that one isn;t quite as big a reach, actually). Snell, Rose, MDJ and Brooks are all better ISO defenders than Butler? Pau Gasol is our best post defender????

These numbers mean nothing.

some of those are questionable (probably sample size related), some really aren't. why would pau not be a good post defender? he's long, you don't have to move much defending in the post, there aren't many good post-up centers to defend...

Well, you have the DPOY and Taj on the team. Who would you want defending someone in the post one-on-one in the clutch?

taj. but pau over a sub-par noah (who has always struggled with big bodies in the post) is more than reasonable

[Stratmaster]

some of those are questionable (probably sample size related), some really aren't. why would pau not be a good post defender? he's long, you don't have to move much defending in the post, there aren't many good post-up centers to defend...

Well, you have the DPOY and Taj on the team. Who would you want defending someone in the post one-on-one in the clutch?

taj. but pau over a sub-par noah (who has always struggled with big bodies in the post) is more than reasonable

We will have to disagree.

[Rerisen]

Well, you have the DPOY and Taj on the team. Who would you want defending someone in the post one-on-one in the clutch?

taj. but pau over a sub-par noah (who has always struggled with big bodies in the post) is more than reasonable

We will have to disagree.

Sorry there is a 100 post requirement before getting to this line.

[BullsFTW]

Now that the NBA is tracking Synergy style play type stats (seems like the data is directly from Synergy?), I thought it might be interesting to see some notable ones.

OFFENSE

Isolation (points per possession)
Rose: 1.08 PPP (93rd percentile)
Mirotic: 0.91 PPP (71st percentile)
Butler: 0.89 PPP (64th percentile)


P&R Ballhandler
Butler: 0.95 PPP, 91st percentile
Brooks: 0.91 PPP, 86th percentile
Rose: 0.76 PPP, 52nd percentile

P&R Rollman
Pau: 1.04 PPP, 63rd percentile
Mirotic: 0.98 PPP, 50th percentile
Taj: 0.88 PPP, 30th percentile
Noah: 0.70 PPP, 6th percentile

Post-Up
Mirotic: 1.13 PPP, 94th percentile
Butler: 1.04 PPP, 91st percentile
Taj: 0.94 PPP, 74th percentile
Pau: 0.88 PPP, 57th percentile
Noah: 0.39 PPP, 1.6th percentile

Spot Up Shooting
Pau: 1.04 PPP, 69th percentile
Mirotic: 1.02 PPP, 64th percentile
Joakim: 0.98 PPP, 57th percentile
Kirk: 0.90 PPP, 42nd percentile
Taj: 0.72 PPP, 14th percentile

Defensive Stats

Defensive Isolation
Tony Snell 0.40 PPP, 98.6th percentile
Rose: 0.74 PPP, 71st percentile
Mike Dunleavy 0.75 PPP, 69th percentile
Aaron Brooks 0.78 PPP, 62nd percentile
Noah 0.80 PPP, 58th percentile
Jimmy Butler 0.86 PPP, 46th percentile
Kirk Hinrich 0.86 PPP, 46th percentile

Defensive P&R Ballhandler
Moore 0.68 PPP 78th percentile
Butler 0.76 PPP 57th percentile
Snell 0.81 PPP 37th percentile
Kirk 0.83 PPP 33rd percentile
Rose 0.84 PPP 30th percentile

Defensive Roll Man
Taj: 0.64 PPP, 85th percentile
Noah: 0.74 PPP, 71st percentile
Mirotic: 0.79 PPP, 65th percentile
Pau: 0.86 PPP, 50th percentile

Defensive Post Up
Pau: 0.74 PPP, 77th percentile
Taj Gibson: 0.76 PPP, 72nd percentile
Mirotic 0.80 PPP, 60th percentile
Noah 0.89 PPP, 43rd percentile

Shows that Mirotic has a high potential offensively. The guy just has so much skills.

"I'll be lifting because I have to improve my body a lot," Mirotic said. "Last year in Spain, I never lifted. I thought it was something that wasn't really important. But (in the NBA), players are stronger and faster. So I need to work on that."

It's exciting to know that Mirotic is implementing strength training to his regimen. Can't wait for him to get stronger and be better on the post offensively and defensively.

[kodo]

So the question is, do you believe Butler is the bulls best PnR ballhandler? I wonder if there was even a large enough sample size of that actually happening to be meaningful? Mirotic is our best offensive post player? Pau is the best spot up shooter (that one isn;t quite as big a reach, actually). Snell, Rose, MDJ and Brooks are all better ISO defenders than Butler? Pau Gasol is our best post defender????

These numbers mean nothing. Not insulting your post, it is interesting to see and read; the only conclusion that you can come to is they aren't numbers you can use to compare players who play different positions, are slotted on defense against different levels of offensive players, etc.

Yeah sample size is going to cause problems with many of these but I think most people here know that. Pau Gasol is not our best 3 point shooter despite shooting 46% from 3, obviously.

I have an entire analytics department that works for me in San Francisco, so I'm quite well versed in the pitfalls about drawing too many hasty conclusions. Usually the problem with analytics are humans trying to infer conclusions that fit what they already believe.

Which is why I did not put any conclusions in my post.

I agree these stats are mainly "interesting" not definitive. Talking points more than anything else. More often than not in my work they just point out an area that warrants more investigation and follow up for a true "deep dive" as the kids say these days.

Snell, Rose, MDJ and Brooks are all better ISO defenders than Butler? Pau Gasol is our best post defender????

Butler has regressed on defense since last year, I didn't need stats to tell me that...and Butler always takes the best offensive player. Harden absolutely lit him up in the last Rockets game.

Pau Gasol takes the weaker scorer most of the time vs Taj & Noah.

It all has to be in context. Mike D & Snell lead our team in TS%...because opposing defense leave them wide open to focus on Rose, Butler, Gasol, etc..

But I think most of the people here know the context.

[Stratmaster]

So the question is, do you believe Butler is the bulls best PnR ballhandler? I wonder if there was even a large enough sample size of that actually happening to be meaningful? Mirotic is our best offensive post player? Pau is the best spot up shooter (that one isn;t quite as big a reach, actually). Snell, Rose, MDJ and Brooks are all better ISO defenders than Butler? Pau Gasol is our best post defender????

These numbers mean nothing. Not insulting your post, it is interesting to see and read; the only conclusion that you can come to is they aren't numbers you can use to compare players who play different positions, are slotted on defense against different levels of offensive players, etc.

Yeah sample size is going to cause problems with many of these but I think most people here know that. Pau Gasol is not our best 3 point shooter despite shooting 46% from 3, obviously.

I have an entire analytics department that works for me in San Francisco, so I'm quite well versed in the pitfalls about drawing too many hasty conclusions. Usually the problem with analytics are humans trying to infer conclusions that fit what they already believe.

Which is why I did not put any conclusions in my post.

I agree these stats are mainly "interesting" not definitive. Talking points more than anything else. More often than not in my work they just point out an area that warrants more investigation and follow up for a true "deep dive" as the kids say these days.

Snell, Rose, MDJ and Brooks are all better ISO defenders than Butler? Pau Gasol is our best post defender????

Butler has regressed on defense since last year, I didn't need stats to tell me that...and Butler always takes the best offensive player. Harden absolutely lit him up in the last Rockets game.

Pau Gasol takes the weaker scorer most of the time vs Taj & Noah.

It all has to be in context. Mike D & Snell lead our team in TS%...because opposing defense leave them wide open to focus on Rose, Butler, Gasol, etc..

But I think most of the people here know the context.

It may be even more dangerous to assume things about people than it is even to assume things about stats

The comment about Butler always getting the toughest player, with Pau getting the weakest, is spot on (but you knew that). That plus the sample size tells me I cannot accept the stats/ratings as meaningful. If 50% or more of the rankings are off, and we already know the context then what are they really telling me? but then, I am a bit fanatic about this subject, so be sure to keep in mind my context as well.

[musiqsoulchild]

RedBulls got me hooked onto this thread...thanks mate!

I am super dubious of ANY stats that show Brooks is better at anything defense than Kirk. Or anyone else.

The offense stats pass the sniff test for me...but the defense stuff is really tough without context.

For example, Kirk had to guard PG's when the season started (Derrick out for a while), then SG's (Jimmy injured and then Dunleavy missing a ton of games) and also some SF minutes.

Ditto with Jimmy having to take on the larger SF on defense instead of his more likely SG opponent (Dunleavys injury again drove this).

This inflates PPS scored against for Kirk and Jimmy...unless these stats can be positionally adjusted, I would argue that the PPS is inflated.

[kyrv]

Wow Kodo this rocks.

For the most part this validates the eye test.

Rose has sucked even worse than I thought in many areas.