OT - NBDL Team Experimenting w/ Grinnell College Frenetic Offensive System

unknownnewbie · Post #1 » by **unknownnewbie** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:28 pm

Interesting article about the Sacramento Kings hiring a Grinnell College assistant to become the coach of their NBDL team and experimenting with trying to run that school's frenetic, very high-scoring system. Sounds like it has had mixed results.

Could a system similar to this actually work in the modern NBA? I would think you would have to have a roster full of very athletic players just to have any chance. Even then, it seems like you'd probably be a .500 team rather than a title contender.

Thoughts?

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/f ... are_btn_tw

(PS - John Stockton's son is the PG for this NBDL squad)

Jvaughn · Post #2 » by **Jvaughn** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:32 pm

Isn't Reno running something like that already?

mj234eva · Post #3 » by **mj234eva** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:44 pm

I watched the Grinnell women play on Sat vs Lake Forest. Had to leave after that game, so didn't get to see the Men's team play.

nrockwaychicago · Post #4 » by **nrockwaychicago** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:45 pm

smart. might as well get something out of the nbadl

unknownnewbie · Post #5 » by **unknownnewbie** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:46 pm

Jvaughn wrote:Isn't Reno running something like that already?

That's the team this article is about -- the Sacramento Kings' NBDL team

musiqsoulchild · Post #6 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:00 pm

Basketball will soon become about using all 15 players.

Teams will start noticing all of that dead weight from roster spots 11-15. That has to change.

I feel we have been ahead of the curve in that regard in the Paxson era.

Also, any ultra-active play style ---either on defense or offense--- requires fresh bodies. Can you imagine what Noah (28) + Perkins (10) + Taj (10) at Center could do?

And Pau ( 26) + Taj (12) + Niko (10) could do?

We'd be destroying the league on sheer intensity and energy expended.

Red Larrivee · Post #7 » by **Red Larrivee** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:07 pm

Wouldn't work in the NBA.

Jvaughn · Post #8 » by **Jvaughn** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:40 pm

unknownnewbie wrote:
Jvaughn wrote:Isn't Reno running something like that already?

That's the team this article is about -- the Sacramento Kings' NBDL team

Oh okay.

Jvaughn · Post #9 » by **Jvaughn** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:41 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:Wouldn't work in the NBA.

Doesn't really work in the D-League. Reno isn't even actually good.

dice · Post #10 » by **dice** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:45 pm

musiqsoulchild wrote:Basketball will soon become about using all 15 players.

Teams will start noticing all of that dead weight from roster spots 11-15. That has to change.

I feel we have been ahead of the curve in that regard in the Paxson era.

Also, any ultra-active play style ---either on defense or offense--- requires fresh bodies. Can you imagine what Noah (28) + Perkins (10) + Taj (10) at Center could do?

And Pau ( 26) + Taj (12) + Niko (10) could do?

We'd be destroying the league on sheer intensity and energy expended.

at the very least no deep team should tolerate loafing. use the depth to your advantage and keep the intensity level high

MC3 · Post #11 » by **MC3** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:05 pm

dice wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:Basketball will soon become about using all 15 players.

Teams will start noticing all of that dead weight from roster spots 11-15. That has to change.

I feel we have been ahead of the curve in that regard in the Paxson era.

Also, any ultra-active play style ---either on defense or offense--- requires fresh bodies. Can you imagine what Noah (28) + Perkins (10) + Taj (10) at Center could do?

And Pau ( 26) + Taj (12) + Niko (10) could do?

We'd be destroying the league on sheer intensity and energy expended.

at the very least no deep team should tolerate loafing. use the depth to your advantage and keep the intensity level high

dont tell that to thibs. 8 guy rotation is enough and plenty for NBA according to him :nonono:

Post #12 » by **Payt10** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:33 pm

I've always been fascinated with this scheme. I don't see why it couldn't work in the NBA with the right roster makeup. Milwaukee's would be ideal with all the long athletic players they have now.

We are heading into an era now where minutes-watching is becoming more important. I think we are eventually going to get to a point where teams are expanding their rotations to 10+ guys every night to keep guys fresh.

Like Chip Kelly's scheme now, there would have to be alterations when making the jump to the NBA level, but this type of fast paced system could work if the coach knows what he's doing.

musiqsoulchild · Post #13 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:53 pm

Payt10 wrote:I've always been fascinated with this scheme. I don't see why it couldn't work in the NBA with the right roster makeup. Milwaukee's would be ideal with all the long athletic players they have now.

We are heading into an era now where minutes-watching is becoming more important. I think we are eventually going to get to a point where teams are expanding their rotations to 10+ guys every night to keep guys fresh.

Like Chip Kelly's scheme now, there would have to be alterations when making the jump to the NBA level, but this type of fast paced system could work if the coach knows what he's doing.

Agreed.

In theory, it would look like this.....NBA full squad = 15 players. Thats 3 per position.

So, you would have your minutes distributed out like this at each position:

Starter ( 28 Minutes) / Backup I( 12) / Backup II ( 8 Mins)

Ideally, you'd want Backup 1 to provide stability and Backup 2 to provide specialised skills (shooting, iso, shot-blocking, man defense etc.)

And each player...goes HARD for all of the minutes they are on the court.

Mech Engineer · Post #14 » by **Mech Engineer** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:54 pm

Definitely needs to be tried. This can work well especially against teams playing on b2b games. You can use it your advantage by running high paced offense against tired opponents. Or, use it if your game plan is not working. Golden State kind of did it several years back and the Bulls always seemed to follow their erratic play even if they didn't plan to do it.

kodo · Post #15 » by **kodo** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:29 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:Wouldn't work in the NBA.

Already working for Milwaukee.

Nobody on that team plays more than 29 minutes, they play pressure defense attacking the ballhandler, they'll take steals over a contested shot, and they have the #3 defense in the league.

musiqsoulchild · Post #16 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:41 pm

kodo wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:Wouldn't work in the NBA.

Already working for Milwaukee.

Nobody on that team plays more than 29 minutes, they play pressure defense attacking the ballhandler, they'll take steals over a contested shot, and they have the #3 defense in the league.

Also worked brilliantly for the Spurs in the Finals against the Heat.

kyrv · Post #17 » by **kyrv** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:06 pm

musiqsoulchild wrote:
Payt10 wrote:I've always been fascinated with this scheme. I don't see why it couldn't work in the NBA with the right roster makeup. Milwaukee's would be ideal with all the long athletic players they have now.

We are heading into an era now where minutes-watching is becoming more important. I think we are eventually going to get to a point where teams are expanding their rotations to 10+ guys every night to keep guys fresh.

Like Chip Kelly's scheme now, there would have to be alterations when making the jump to the NBA level, but this type of fast paced system could work if the coach knows what he's doing.

Agreed.

In theory, it would look like this.....NBA full squad = 15 players. Thats 3 per position.

So, you would have your minutes distributed out like this at each position:

Starter ( 28 Minutes) / Backup I( 12) / Backup II ( 8 Mins)

Ideally, you'd want Backup 1 to provide stability and Backup 2 to provide specialised skills (shooting, iso, shot-blocking, man defense etc.)

And each player...goes HARD for all of the minutes they are on the court.

Just to add, hockey basically has been doing this for a really long time. They could go longer shifts and 'jog' up and down the ice, but they do short stints, I believe the average ice time shift is under a minute!, and go hard. Best front line players play a lot less, but are more effective by being able to go all out. Defense travels less, they can play 20 minutes or more, some guys, half the game. But they go a lot fewer miles than the front line guys.

I'm not normally a compare this to that person, but to me it seems like it has been done in the past and worked in basketball and hockey it's the accepted norm. And now football is doing it also.

Red Larrivee · Post #18 » by **Red Larrivee** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:27 pm

kodo wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:Wouldn't work in the NBA.

Already working for Milwaukee.

Nobody on that team plays more than 29 minutes, they play pressure defense attacking the ballhandler, they'll take steals over a contested shot, and they have the #3 defense in the league.

That's not quite the Grinnell system. You should YouTube it (I can't at work).

-Speed up the game as much as possible. Get a lot more field goal attempts than the opposition and make sure most of them are 3's.
-Defensively, a field goal attempt or a made basket is better than a stop in play
-Quick shots early in the shot clock, preferably threes.
-Full court press after every made basket
-4 Players going for the offensive rebound
-Kicking back out for more 3 point attempts on an offensive board.
-Always double team the ballhandler

jumpmanjay · Post #19 » by **jumpmanjay** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:31 pm

MC3 wrote:dont tell that to thibs. 8 guy rotation is enough and plenty for NBA according to him

You must be new to the NBA.

AirP. · Post #20 » by **AirP.** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:50 pm

I keep forgetting how old I am since this happened right after my senior year in HS...

Look up 1989-1990 Loyola Marymount.

2nd round of march madness... 149-115 Loyola over Michigan.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIF1TFwBe2A[/youtube]

Paul Westhead tried to bring it to the NBA with the Nuggets.

Didn't we just see this happen also in the last decade with the Suns which got Nash 2 MVPs?