Rose Injury History Is Giving Everyone Else A Pass

amcfad27 · Post #1 » by **amcfad27** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:01 pm

Everyones all: If healthy, lets see this team when healthy...

By holding onto that approach I feel like management and players are getting a free ride.

GarPax is in "wait and see" and doesnt want to break up any "core" pieces

The players get a pass - "He'll play better off of someone like Rose..."

When does it end? When should someone be held accountable?

The reality is this has been a first round exit team. Not really something we should be accepting

Post #2 » by **coldfish** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:06 pm

At the end of the day, there is a salary cap. Rose is taking up about 25% of it. With him not playing or playing poorly, its impossible to be a contender. I'm not sure I have ever seen a team even make a deep playoff run without their top guy.

Quite frankly, Thibs and the front office should get awards for how well the team has fared without Rose. You just don't see teams do this well without a guy of Rose's caliber.

Summary: Your expectations are unrealistic

WIN · Post #3 » by **WIN** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:11 pm

This isn't fantasy basketball; you can't just drop a player and add another within your budget. Taking everything into account, GarPax have done a great job with building a competitive team that plays well with or without their #1.

amcfad27 · Post #4 » by **amcfad27** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:19 pm

I understand the cap. I'm in favor of salary dumping Rose at this point. I'm sure thats not a popular view. Based around our 1st (late 20s)+Rose for Javale Magee and a couple 2nds.

Frees up our cap to improve the team.

The whole point is we can't just keep waiting and waiting and waiting for ifs and buts with this team.

Mech Engineer · Post #5 » by **Mech Engineer** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:26 pm

OP....The history of the league says you need a top 5 player plus the right depth around d the top 5 player. There is nobody other than Derrick who has the promise of being a top 5 player. We have even seen how he changes the game when he is playing well and there is nobody else like that. Frustration and impatience is of no use.

If the Bulls goal is to win a championship, they need Derrick or have to find that next superstar. That finding process is what they went through from 1998 to 2008. These are small bumps compared to that. If you like to be the 76ers trying to find the next Iverson, then no sane GM is going to do that.

Professor Frink · Post #6 » by **Professor Frink** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:30 pm

amcfad27 wrote:Everyones all: If healthy, lets see this team when healthy...

By holding onto that approach I feel like management and players are getting a free ride.

GarPax is in "wait and see" and doesnt want to break up any "core" pieces

The players get a pass - "He'll play better off of someone like Rose..."

When does it end? When should someone be held accountable?

The reality is this has been a first round exit team. Not really something we should be accepting

Everyone? Are you new to this board?

DanTown8587 · Post #7 » by **DanTown8587** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:36 pm

Derrick Rose is basically taking up 30% of the salary cap while potentially missing his fourth straight playoffs. Unless your argument is that the Bulls should not have resigned Rose after winning the MVP, wait for him to tear his ACL in April 2012 then let him walk via FA, I don't see how you can expect a team to succeed when so much money is tied up to a player literally not playing.

Also like to point out that in the last four years the Bulls have added Butler, Mirotic, Snell, McDermott via the draft, signed Robinson/Augustin/Brooks has super high value vet min contracts, got excellent value out of Noah.

musiqsoulchild · Post #8 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:36 pm

amcfad27 wrote:Based around our 1st (late 20s)+Rose for Javale Magee and a couple 2nds.

You lost any credibility you had with this proposal.

In the spirit of your thread title, I cannot give you a pass for such a horrible trade idea.

kodo · Post #9 » by **kodo** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:38 pm

coldfish wrote:Quite frankly, Thibs and the front office should get awards for how well the team has fared without Rose. You just don't see teams do this well without a guy of Rose's caliber.

Summary: Your expectations are unrealistic

I do agree Rose’s contract straps a team financially and they’re doing about as well as can be expected, but I don’t think the coach or FO has done anything amazing to deserve an award.

Last season: 1st round exit like the Bobcats
2 seasons ago: 2nd round exit like NY Knicks
3 seasons ago: 1st round exit like the Magic

Without a true star we were treadmilling as an easy playoff out like most teams without a star, eg OKC without Durant/Westbrook, Indiana without Paul George, Miami w/o Lebron. These teams will make the playoffs but not go far, which is what the Bulls have done for 3 years.

But again I do agree w/ you, what can the management or coach really do with over $20M of your payroll going to medical rehab.

League Circles · Post #10 » by **League Circles** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:11 pm

amcfad27 wrote:I understand the cap. I'm in favor of salary dumping Rose at this point. I'm sure thats not a popular view. Based around our 1st (late 20s)+Rose for Javale Magee and a couple 2nds.

Frees up our cap to improve the team.

The whole point is we can't just keep waiting and waiting and waiting for ifs and buts with this team.

Dumping Rose's contract would give us hardly any flexibility at all assuming Butler is maxed out.

CousinOfDeath · Post #11 » by **CousinOfDeath** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:12 pm

It ends when Rose's contract ends and the team doesn't have to be built with a $20 million handicap.

Stratmaster · Post #12 » by **Stratmaster** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:24 pm

coldfish wrote:At the end of the day, there is a salary cap. Rose is taking up about 25% of it. With him not playing or playing poorly, its impossible to be a contender. I'm not sure I have ever seen a team even make a deep playoff run without their top guy.

Quite frankly, Thibs and the front office should get awards for how well the team has fared without Rose. You just don't see teams do this well without a guy of Rose's caliber.

Summary: Your expectations are unrealistic

Exactly. During Rose's absence this team has performed beyond all expectations over the past few seasons. the front office has done a great job of bringing in journeyman PG's who could fill the gap and Thibs has done a great job of using them. They got Gasol and brought over the Niko they had stashed in Europe.

Lolo · Post #13 » by **Lolo** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:45 pm

amcfad27 wrote:I understand the cap. I'm in favor of salary dumping Rose at this point. I'm sure thats not a popular view. Based around our 1st (late 20s)+Rose for Javale Magee and a couple 2nds.

What the...??? Javale Magee? A first rounder and Rose for Magee? Do you know anything about the Bulls organization at all? Javale wouldn't even make it to Chicago before he was bought out or waved. He's not Bulls material. If you want to salary dump Rose, that's fine and I can understand the reasoning, but at least come up with something realistic... Not giving up a first rounder for one of the biggest boneheads in the league. Geez.

kyrv · Post #14 » by **kyrv** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:52 pm

amcfad27 wrote:Everyones all: If healthy, lets see this team when healthy...

By holding onto that approach I feel like management and players are getting a free ride.

GarPax is in "wait and see" and doesnt want to break up any "core" pieces

The players get a pass - "He'll play better off of someone like Rose..."

When does it end? When should someone be held accountable?

The reality is this has been a first round exit team. Not really something we should be accepting

Huh? They were missing their best player.

What exactly does you not accepting it entail?

amcfad27 · Post #15 » by **amcfad27** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:10 am

Mech Engineer wrote:OP....The history of the league says you need a top 5 player plus the right depth around d the top 5 player. There is nobody other than Derrick who has the promise of being a top 5 player. We have even seen how he changes the game when he is playing well and there is nobody else like that. Frustration and impatience is of no use.

If the Bulls goal is to win a championship, they need Derrick or have to find that next superstar. That finding process is what they went through from 1998 to 2008. These are small bumps compared to that. If you like to be the 76ers trying to find the next Iverson, then no sane GM is going to do that.

Pistons did it without. Spurs recently (Duncan is probably not top 5 last time they won), Boston, Dallas....

Those teams had a collection of very good players: KG, Duncan and Dirk were probably not top 5. Top 10-15 probably. A case could be made for Jimmy and Gasol being in that category

amcfad27 · Post #16 » by **amcfad27** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:15 am

Seriously though what does this board think Rose's trade value is right now? Has to be top 3 if not the worst contract in the league right now. The trade has nothing to do with Javale Magee the player. Fine buy him out... Thats not the point. One less year and Philly being the main team taking salary in dumps like this. Cap jump is coming up. Clear the Rose cloud from this team

musiqsoulchild · Post #17 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:57 am

amcfad27 wrote:Seriously though what does this board think Rose's trade value is right now? Has to be top 3 if not the worst contract in the league right now. The trade has nothing to do with Javale Magee the player. Fine buy him out... Thats not the point. One less year and Philly being the main team taking salary in dumps like this. Cap jump is coming up. Clear the Rose cloud from this team

Let's talk worst contracts in the league:

Deron
Joe Johnson
Carmelo Anthony

And that's just in one city.

Mech Engineer · Post #18 » by **Mech Engineer** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:41 am

Today's game was a perfect example why young teams don't win. Minnesota should have put away the Bulls missing half of their top 6 players. And, Chicago's young guys should have been feasting with playing time. And, this was a regular season game with no playoff pressure. It was the vets like Joakim, MDJ, Jimmy who got the win.

Wiggins might take 3 to 5 years to even reach 75% of 2011 Derrick or even the good Derrick we saw this year. And, that is if he is healthy, keeps improving and there are right pieces around him. Kevin Love was putting up big stats for 6 years to go nowhere.

ralphisBullsFan · Post #19 » by **ralphisBullsFan** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:58 am

i honestly feel if rose can give us around 17 and 7 with less than 4 TO's a game and can be 45% from the field and be close to 40% from 3 we can take the east if jimmy, gasol, noah, snell and MDJ stay healthy....we don't need D rose from 2011 we just need him to play like jeff teague....i really wish rose would go back to that mid range jump shot he has no idea how much that helps his game and the bulls when he's shooting those well...

errisal · Post #20 » by **errisal** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:11 am

ralphisBullsFan wrote:i honestly feel if rose can give us around 17 and 7 with less than 4 TO's a game and can be 45% from the field and be close to 40% from 3 we can take the east if jimmy, gasol, noah, snell and MDJ stay healthy....we don't need D rose from 2011 we just need him to play like jeff teague....i really wish rose would go back to that mid range jump shot he has no idea how much that helps his game and the bulls when he's shooting those well...

You must haven't watched any of the Bulls games this year. The only part of that stat line that you are getting from Rose is the 17. The best the Bulls should hope for in Rose's return is 15-6 with 44% from 2 and less than 3 attempts from 3. Let's hope that at least 12 of those points come from mid-range jumpers.