Are we sure a new HC wouldn't fight with the FO?

[jax98]

Having accepted that Thibs is unlikely to return, it would mean a new head coach would come on board for next season, be it Hoiberg or someone else.

So simple question: Should this new HC be "the last straw" in that sense if there are tensions between him and GarPax, then it means there's a need to look at changes in management? I just can't imagine having three head coaches in a row (from what I know, tensions weren't present with Skiles - someone correct me if I'm wrong) who all clash with management and who are in the wrong.

[TyrusRose2425]

just nuke management. Come on, let's get something going to convince Michael Reinsdorf to give Thibs control. We're creative right?

[RedBulls23]

There was some tension between Skiles and the FO during Skiles contract extension I think.

I think Gar/Pax would have to hit rock bottom like Krause did for them to get fired. Like the team would have to get really bad. If the teams continues to make the playoffs, then ownership won't have a problem with them.

[GimmeDat]

I think the FO is actively seeking out someone that will be more submissive to them.

But I agree, this is a major concern going forward. GarPax are overstepping their reach a bit here. I probably would agree that Thibs needs some intervention at times, but overall, it doesn't set a good precedence to be that controlling over a largely excellent coach.

[keloms]

just nuke management. Come on, let's get something going to convince Michael Reinsdorf to give Thibs control. We're creative right?

Michael is still fairly new so it's tough to say how he likes to handle things, but, if Jerry was still in charge and believed in Thibs, he'd make them work out it. He wouldn't stand for any of the BS of letting Thibs go down as the scapegoat.

I think the FO is actively seeking out someone that will be more submissive to them.

Exactly! Next go around is going to be someone who'll bow to the FO and basically be an extension of it with the same vision they have.

[kingkirk]

Having accepted that Thibs is unlikely to return, it would mean a new head coach would come on board for next season, be it Hoiberg or someone else.

So simple question: Should this new HC be "the last straw" in that sense if there are tensions between him and GarPax, then it means there's a need to look at changes in management? I just can't imagine having three head coaches in a row (from what I know, tensions weren't present with Skiles - someone correct me if I'm wrong) who all clash with management and who are in the wrong.

It depends on the persona or characteristics of the incoming coach, should that occur.

Skiles & Thibs are old school guys. No bull kind of guys. You could clear see that they were not going to take **** and things had the potential to go sour with both given their personalites.

I think the issue here is both our FO and coaches have been stubborn old school guys, and because of differing opinions, they've clashed.

Can we guarantee that the new coach won't fight with the FO? Of course not. In fact, i'd expect it. What coach wouldn't?

Clearly, the FO has a gripe with Thibodeau. The coach has one with the FO. Neither is going to swallow their pride and try to mend things. They're as stubborn as either change and both feel they're in the right. Their wouldn't be a lingering issue if this were not the case.

The next coach can't be a hard ass type if he is going to survive this FO. No question that a key criteria for them will be someone who is willing to work with them and value their input into running the team.

[jimmy_smith]

Submissive HC is a bad HC.
FIre FO instead, GarPax are disposable, Thib isn't.

[Dez]

Only a stupid FO would get rid of Thibs.

[jax98]

Can we guarantee that the new coach won't fight with the FO? Of course not. In fact, i'd expect it. What coach wouldn't?

You know what I mean, though. These clashes grew tiresome a long time ago, especially given that Tom freaking Thibodeau is heading out the door because of them, old-school guy or not. There's no way I can imagine Chicago competing seriously for a title if there persists inner conflict to the point where you have to implement yes-men.

[kingkirk]

You know what I mean, though. These clashes grew tiresome a long time ago, especially given that Tom freaking Thibodeau is heading out the door because of them, old-school guy or not. There's no way I can imagine Chicago competing seriously for a title if there persists inner conflict to the point where you have to implement yes-men.

I hear you, but i guess it's tough to tell or answer the question at hand until we know who the replacement is.

I think younger coaches are more willing to listen, to fall in line or have constructive conversations with their FOs. They will be just as competitive, but i think their temperaments would differ.

Basically, if we're doing generalities, if the FO were to bring in another 50-55 year old assistant coach who has been around the league for 15-20 years, i wouldn't be surprised if that headed south quickly.

If they go after a 40-45 year old guy that is part of the new wave, i don't think it's as likely to erupt, especially if the guy they bring in has an assosiation with them already.

If the FO were to trade away a key piece (Deng), i'd expect Brad Stevens to be more understanding of it than someone like Tom Thibodeau. I'm assuming that based solely on their demeanour, but i don't think that's a stretch.

[Chicago Brawls]

Give GarPax a job in the chokingscouting department.

Find a real nonsiamese GM.

[Tetlak]

They just want a yes man. That's why you dig into the non-glamourus programs from the college ranks. A big name college coach is egotistical as hell. A guy like Hoiberg will be happy to get a shot in the NBA and he will be more malleable in terms of letting the front office micromanage him. It's sickening really. It's going to be a terrible day for most of us if Thibs is fired. Of course there will always be those who are happy to see him gone because he "plays his guys too many minutes". Wait until you see the Bulls lose a big lead in the playoffs or fall behind by a big margin because the damn bench was in the game for too long, ya damn crybabies. The board would erupt.

[TyrusRose2425]

The thing with Thibs is that he helps with more than just coaching. He's a pretty big deal when it comes to free agency. Despite his tough, hard nosed attitude, players want to play for him. Melo was really interested in playing for Thibs, but of course money talked at the end. Other stars such as Kobe have also had strong praise for Thibs. I don't see any big name free agent out there that will be extra enticed to work with Gar Forman.

[drbg43]

I'd be very disappointed if we got rid of Thibs, to say the least.

[maynardo]

More like: If the bulls can only keep one outta Thibs and GarPax. Are we sure keeping Garpax is the best idea???

I posted this before, but it's worth remembering: this same FO was always .500 or less with other coaches, why in the hell should we trust them instead of Thibs?

[coldfish]

Here is the issue, the primary goal of the organization is profit. Winning is important, but secondary. As long as the team stays competitive and doesn't pay the tax, GarPax basically have jobs for life. The only thing that will endanger them is another long run of noncompetitve seasons where you start to see more and more empty seats at the UC.

I see no reason why the team can't continue to make the playoffs every year going forward for quite some time. Even if they get a new coach they fight with.

........

Side note: I very much suspect the next coach is going to be someone GarPax gets along with swimmingly. The question is if they can find a guy who also knows X's and O's. I'll try to keep an open mind.

[johnnyvann840]

The FO needs to get the F out of this practice of trying to micro-manage a former COY. Here is the bottom line folks...

Thibs won COY and the Bulls had their healthiest overall season. when management stayed the F out of Thibs way. D Rose was the MVP and we made the ECF's as a young core, up and coming team.

Then, the next season the Bulls were a dominant force. Steamrolling the NBA at historical levels (with a healthy Rose they won an absurd, nearly record pace -see'96- of games)... D. Rose started having health issues EARLY in the season, NOT from playing huge minutes or anything like that. The injuries with him started to mount up.. the team still won more games than any other team in the NBA despite Rose only playing 39 games.

Then 4.28.12 happens and the franchise changes for real. Now we have Rose and Boozer taking up half the payroll and giving zero to highly negative impact production for two seasons but Thibs manages to make the playoffs in both.. because of this enormous chasm of dollars going to nothing, the rest of usable players get worn and more injuries start to mount. Thibodeau gets blamed. (such BS).

Then, we bring in Jenn (Jen?- IDGAF). Now the FO has already started to get involved and decided to start telling Thibs how to do his job a while ago but it's getting worse. Now the team is having the same, if not more, overall, injury problems. Guys have been on minutes restriction, getting out of practice with notes from Jenn.. they're all hurting or sidelined. The team's overall health may be the worst it's been in a while..

Now, we might get lucky and strike lightning in a bottle getting Rose, Butler, and Taj (and Jo) all back and ready for the playoffs.... but can a team where the starters played less than 350 minutes together in games during the reg season make hay in the playoffs? IDK. Maybe. We can only hope. Seems like the only way Thibs is back is if we win it all or at least make the Finals. Thibs probably wants the F out of here anyway after being micromanaged and belittled in the lame ass Chicago media.

[qianlong]

You know what I mean, though. These clashes grew tiresome a long time ago, especially given that Tom freaking Thibodeau is heading out the door because of them, old-school guy or not. There's no way I can imagine Chicago competing seriously for a title if there persists inner conflict to the point where you have to implement yes-men.

I hear you, but i guess it's tough to tell or answer the question at hand until we know who the replacement is.

I think younger coaches are more willing to listen, to fall in line or have constructive conversations with their FOs. They will be just as competitive, but i think their temperaments would differ.

Basically, if we're doing generalities, if the FO were to bring in another 50-55 year old assistant coach who has been around the league for 15-20 years, i wouldn't be surprised if that headed south quickly.

If they go after a 40-45 year old guy that is part of the new wave, i don't think it's as likely to erupt, especially if the guy they bring in has an assosiation with them already.

If the FO were to trade away a key piece (Deng), i'd expect Brad Stevens to be more understanding of it than someone like Tom Thibodeau. I'm assuming that based solely on their demeanour, but i don't think that's a stretch.

VDN was a young coach but that did not make any difference. He was also a bad coach, so i'm glad he was fired, but the tension didn't steam from the bad record.

[TyrusRose2425]

someone kidnap Forman, but don't say I sent you

[Stratmaster]

just nuke management. Come on, let's get something going to convince Michael Reinsdorf to give Thibs control. We're creative right?

Are we sure Thibs wouldn't fight with a new FO?