We're headed for a worse record than last season

TimRobbins · Post #1 » by **TimRobbins** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:34 am

Lets see - Rose played most of the games this season, Butler broke out to allstar level, and we added Gsol, Mirotic and Mcdermott.

How is it possible that we're headed on the sure road to having a worse record than last season where we played without Rose, traded Deng and had little depth and a ton of injuries? If there's a case to be made for the players tuning out Thibs, it's this. He was able to get a lot more out of an inferior roster last season.

Polynice4Pippen · Post #2 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:47 am

TimRobbins wrote:Lets see - Rose played most of the games this season, Butler broke out to allstar level, and we added Gsol, Mirotic and Mcdermott.

How is it possible that we're headed on the sure road to having a worse record than last season where we played without Rose, traded Deng and had little depth and a ton of injuries? If there's a case to be made for the players tuning out Thibs, it's this. He was able to get a lot more out of an inferior roster last season.

All those bad losses to sub .500 teams, particularly at home. 2014 Bulls were true bum slayers, 2015 Bulls are bum enablers. Even so, Bulls were still on pace for a #2 seed going into the All-Star break before the injuries. And they've beaten every top contender in the league other than Atlanta, including wins over every team in the West. Bottom line, 2015 Bulls have a higher ceiling and lower floor than any Thibs team before.

TimRobbins · Post #3 » by **TimRobbins** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:53 am

Polynice4Pippen wrote:All those bad losses to sub .500 teams, particularly at home. 2014 Bulls were true bum slayers, 2015 Bulls are bum enablers. Even so, Bulls were still on pace for a #2 seed going into the All-Star break before the injuries. And they've beaten every top contender in the league other than Atlanta, including wins over every team in the West. Bottom line, 2015 Bulls have a higher ceiling and lower floor than any Thibs team before.

The effort has been inconsistent. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Very untypical of a Thibs team. So are the players tuning him out at this point?

Post #4 » by **Rerisen** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:55 am

Polynice4Pippen wrote:Bottom line, 2015 Bulls have a higher ceiling and lower floor than any Thibs team before.

Can't even say that reliably without seeing the Derrick we get back (if we do) prior the playoffs.

If he's not at least 90% of what he used to be, I don't think the ceiling is higher than 2011.

Polynice4Pippen · Post #5 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:01 am

TimRobbins wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:All those bad losses to sub .500 teams, particularly at home. 2014 Bulls were true bum slayers, 2015 Bulls are bum enablers. Even so, Bulls were still on pace for a #2 seed going into the All-Star break before the injuries. And they've beaten every top contender in the league other than Atlanta, including wins over every team in the West. Bottom line, 2015 Bulls have a higher ceiling and lower floor than any Thibs team before.

The effort has been inconsistent. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Very untypical of a Thibs team. So are the players tuning him out at this point?

I don't think they were tuning him out. The team was on cruise control; a combination of thinking games would be easier with their new found offensive weapons and wanting to wait until the playoffs to turn it on. They were playing like a team that didn't want to be awaken until the playoffs.

Polynice4Pippen · Post #6 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:03 am

Rerisen wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:Bottom line, 2015 Bulls have a higher ceiling and lower floor than any Thibs team before.

Can't even say that reliably without seeing the Derrick we get back (if we do) prior the playoffs.

If he's not at least 90% of what he used to be, I don't think the ceiling is higher than 2011.

A ceiling is a best possible scenario, that being Derrick back at 100% and ready to roll. So of course the Bulls ceiling this season is higher than the 2011 squad.

TimRobbins · Post #7 » by **TimRobbins** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:04 am

Polynice4Pippen wrote:I don't think they were tuning him out. The team was on cruise control; a combination of thinking games would be easier with their new found offensive weapons and wanting to wait until the playoffs to turn it on. They were playing like a team that didn't want to be awaken until the playoffs.

cruise control = tuning Thibs out.
wanting to wait until the playoffs to turn it on = Tuning Thibs out.

Post #8 » by **Rerisen** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:06 am

Polynice4Pippen wrote:A ceiling is a best possible scenario, that being Derrick back at 100% and ready to roll. So of course the Bulls ceiling this season is higher than the 2011 squad.

What's 100% for Derrick?

Polynice4Pippen · Post #9 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:09 am

TimRobbins wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:I don't think they were tuning him out. The team was on cruise control; a combination of thinking games would be easier with their new found offensive weapons and wanting to wait until the playoffs to turn it on. They were playing like a team that didn't want to be awaken until the playoffs.

cruise control = tuning Thibs out.
wanting to wait until the playoffs to turn it on = Tuning Thibs out.

Tuning a coach out, in my mind, means quitting on the coach and the season. Bulls haven't tuned Thibs out, they just don't wanna crank it up until April, and believe they're good enough to get by doing that. When Chris Bosh said the players just wanted to chill while Spoelstra wanted them to work, that wasn't tuning him out. That was "wake me up when the real games get here".

Polynice4Pippen · Post #10 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:11 am

Rerisen wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:A ceiling is a best possible scenario, that being Derrick back at 100% and ready to roll. So of course the Bulls ceiling this season is higher than the 2011 squad.

What's 100% for Derrick?

The Cleveland game right before the all-star break.

TimRobbins · Post #11 » by **TimRobbins** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:12 am

Polynice4Pippen wrote:Tuning a coach out, in my mind, means quitting on the coach and the season. Bulls haven't tuned Thibs out, they just don't wanna crank it up until April, and believe they're good enough to get by doing that. When Chris Bosh said the players just wanted to chill while Spoelstra wanted them to work, that wasn't tuning him out. That was "wake me up when the real games get here".

That's not the definition of tuning a coach out. It has nothing to do with quitting on the season and the Heat never chilled.
Thibs is a guy who pushes players to the limit in every game. His teams come and outwork opponents. That's not happening this season and that's my definition of tuning a coach out. The players are not playing the way Thibs wants them to play.

TimRobbins · Post #12 » by **TimRobbins** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:14 am

Polynice4Pippen wrote:The Cleveland game right before the all-star break.

You can't point to one game. Every player in this league can be a superstar for one game, but real superstars can do it consistently. Rose hasn't shown he can do it consistently like he did before the injuries.

chifan1798 · Post #13 » by **chifan1798** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:19 am

TimRobbins wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:Tuning a coach out, in my mind, means quitting on the coach and the season. Bulls haven't tuned Thibs out, they just don't wanna crank it up until April, and believe they're good enough to get by doing that. When Chris Bosh said the players just wanted to chill while Spoelstra wanted them to work, that wasn't tuning him out. That was "wake me up when the real games get here".

That's not the definition of tuning a coach out. It has nothing to do with quitting on the season and the Heat never chilled.
Thibs is a guy who pushes players to the limit in every game. His teams come and outwork opponents. That's not happening this season and that's my definition of tuning a coach out. The players are not playing the way Thibs wants them to play.

Are we even sure that Thibs is pushing guys as hard? Given all of the rumors about the disagreements with the FO, I would imagine, 82 game intensity leading to worn out players, along with minute restrictions may play a role into Thibs relaxing a bit on pushing the guys so hard in regular season games. Not to mention, when the season first started, I remember numerous people making comments about how they think Thibs seemed more relaxed in the pre and post game interviews. Maybe Thibs is just doing things differently this year in trying to appease the FO, as opposed to the players tuning him out. All the rumors we hear about the FO vs Thibs, have we ever heard any rumors about the players vs Thibs? Noah makes his comments here or there, but always in a joking matter, and always as if he speaks highly of him. I don't think there is a problem with the players and Thibs

TheStig · Post #14 » by **TheStig** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:26 am

TimRobbins wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:Tuning a coach out, in my mind, means quitting on the coach and the season. Bulls haven't tuned Thibs out, they just don't wanna crank it up until April, and believe they're good enough to get by doing that. When Chris Bosh said the players just wanted to chill while Spoelstra wanted them to work, that wasn't tuning him out. That was "wake me up when the real games get here".

That's not the definition of tuning a coach out. It has nothing to do with quitting on the season and the Heat never chilled.
Thibs is a guy who pushes players to the limit in every game. His teams come and outwork opponents. That's not happening this season and that's my definition of tuning a coach out. The players are not playing the way Thibs wants them to play.

He hasn't been allowed to push his two stars this year. Rose and Noah were under minutes restrictions for most if not all of this year.

Polynice4Pippen · Post #15 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:29 am

TimRobbins wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:Tuning a coach out, in my mind, means quitting on the coach and the season. Bulls haven't tuned Thibs out, they just don't wanna crank it up until April, and believe they're good enough to get by doing that. When Chris Bosh said the players just wanted to chill while Spoelstra wanted them to work, that wasn't tuning him out. That was "wake me up when the real games get here".

That's not the definition of tuning a coach out. It has nothing to do with quitting on the season and the Heat never chilled. Thibs is a guy who pushes players to the limit in every game. His teams come and outwork opponents. That's not happening this season and that's my definition of tuning a coach out. The players are not playing the way Thibs wants them to play.

There is no definition of "tuning a coach out", it's a subjective observation to begin with, which is why I included in my post "in my mind". To me tuning a coach out means no longer believing a certain coach is right for you and can get you to the Promised Land. I don't believe that's the case for this Bulls team, I feel they just want to wait until April to truly begin grinding the way Thibs wants them to. And for the Heat never chilling, you're revising history now. They were in complete cruise control last season and in 2012 as well. Wade got extended breaks during the season, Bosh openly talked about chilling. They let Indiana jump out to a 12 game lead on them and didn't care because they knew they could beat them in the playoffs even without home court. Your definition of tuning a coach out is just that, your definition. There is no clear cut definition though, it's a subjective concept.

Polynice4Pippen · Post #16 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:36 am

TimRobbins wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:The Cleveland game right before the all-star break.

You can't point to one game. Every player in this league can be a superstar for one game, but real superstars can do it consistently. Rose hasn't shown he can do it consistently like he did before the injuries.

What are you talkng about? The question was what is considered 100% for Derrick. The question was based on the notion of the Bulls ceiling being a 100% Derrick in the fold. We're talking Bulls ceiling, so I'm going to refer to the game where Derrick was at his best. That's the definition of a "ceiling", a best case scenario that has nothing to do with consistency.

Post #17 » by **Rerisen** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:40 am

Polynice4Pippen wrote:
Rerisen wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:A ceiling is a best possible scenario, that being Derrick back at 100% and ready to roll. So of course the Bulls ceiling this season is higher than the 2011 squad.

What's 100% for Derrick?

The Cleveland game right before the all-star break.

Hah, he didn't play like that consistently in 2011.

Might as well say the recent Spurs game where Kyrie went for 50+ is him at 100%.

BeatDaCavs420 · Post #18 » by **BeatDaCavs420** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:40 am

Polynice4Pippen wrote:
TimRobbins wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:I don't think they were tuning him out. The team was on cruise control; a combination of thinking games would be easier with their new found offensive weapons and wanting to wait until the playoffs to turn it on. They were playing like a team that didn't want to be awaken until the playoffs.

cruise control = tuning Thibs out.
wanting to wait until the playoffs to turn it on = Tuning Thibs out.

Tuning a coach out, in my mind, means quitting on the coach and the season. Bulls haven't tuned Thibs out, they just don't wanna crank it up until April, and believe they're good enough to get by doing that. When Chris Bosh said the players just wanted to chill while Spoelstra wanted them to work, that wasn't tuning him out. That was "wake me up when the real games get here".

No thats tuning him out lol

BeatDaCavs420 · Post #19 » by **BeatDaCavs420** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:43 am

Rerisen wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:A ceiling is a best possible scenario, that being Derrick back at 100% and ready to roll. So of course the Bulls ceiling this season is higher than the 2011 squad.

What's 110% for Derrick?

Fixed

Polynice4Pippen · Post #20 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:57 am

Rerisen wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:
Rerisen wrote:
What's 100% for Derrick?

The Cleveland game right before the all-star break.

Hah, he didn't play like that consistently in 2011.

Might as well say the recent Spurs game where Kyrie went for 50+ is him at 100%.

I don't get what you're scoffing at. We're talking about the Bulls "ceiling" here, are we not? The best case scenario. Well there it is. This isn't a debate about the likelihood of reaching that ceiling, it's an acknowledgement of just how high that ceiling is.