Image ImageImage Image

Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward

Moderators: HomoSapien, AshyLarrysDiaper, coldfish, Payt10, Ice Man, dougthonus, Michael Jackson, Tommy Udo 6 , kulaz3000, fleet, DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat, RedBulls23

User avatar
Rerisen
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 105,369
And1: 25,052
Joined: Nov 23, 2003

Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#1 » by Rerisen » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:30 am

Usual puff piece from Sam on the surface here, but I find some of Derrick's wording lately fascinating.

When he says the player he used to be "Isn't there anymore," It seems a steely admission not just in that he lost something he will never recover, and now understands that, but an optimism that he can grow beyond what he lost.

Read this quote, like he is describing a whole different person than himself.

“That player you saw, that reckless player, I’m smarter now,” Rose was telling reporters Friday afternoon following a brief team film session. “If I didn’t grow in this game I’d be mad at myself. Just trying to take the shots they are giving me, trying to adjust while I am playing. That old/young reckless player you saw years ago, he’s not there anymore.

“I love this player,” Rose said with an authoritative look. “This player is better, smarter.”


Some major mental overhaul has gone on here. I think the first attempted comeback Derrick was all about trying to prove he actually was the same guy, the same insane, beat you no matter what you do with my athleticism, guy. This stuff piggybacks on a retrospective piece on Derrick earlier in the year, well actually about Reggie, where Reggie I believe suggested Derrick knows he will never be the same. I think he's finally come to terms with everything, and has come out the other side of his ordeals the last 3 years.

He might not be the same, but he's close enough that if his head is screwed on tight, he can still dominate.

...Probably the notion about “reinventing yourself” is a bit too cliché for what Rose has gone through, an evolutionary process exacerbated by natural growth and physical misfortune. That Rose is averaging 24 points and eight assists on 45.5 percent three point shooting is not the salient point in the Bulls 3-0 playoff series lead over the Milwaukee Bucks.

It’s that he’s come back not to be back as he was, as often has become the public and media obsession like a boom or bust economic cycle; a skyrocketing stock or a crash, little in between. But for Rose it’s been to advance in mind and spirit as well as game. Perhaps you don’t get statistically better, but you begin to learn what it takes to earn your way back and be a pro.

“The joy, the appreciation, just everything about basketball,” Rose explained. “For someone like myself to go through three surgeries at a young age, your whole perspective of the game and life is different. Especially having a son, your appreciation of the game, your appreciation of the fans, just seeing everybody jump off the wagon, get back on the wagon; it’s fun. It’s part of it. You can’t get mad at people. You can’t get mad at the fans.

“People are always going to have opinions,” said Rose. “It’s just funny to hear their opinions and get motivated by them. Appreciating every moment of it; even the down times where it’s all a learning experience. That’s another reason why you have to love the playoffs because it’s going to be tough. It’s going to push you in every way, mentally, physically, emotionally; you’ve just got to figure your way through it.”

It’s why perhaps so many underestimate Rose and what he’s endured and perhaps this Bulls team as well.

...

“Taking care of your body; nothing crazy like some of the rumors you hear about like getting in wine or anything,” Rose said with a smile in reference to the Amar’e Stoudemire regimen. “Nothing like that. Just making sure, eating well, sleeping, little things, stretching.”

..

“Derrick, it’s not that he’s old; his best years are coming,” maintains Thibodeau. “He’s had to navigate through adversity; it’s made him a lot stronger mentally. Now we have a chance. The challenge is not only bringing the best out of himself, but to bring the best out of all his teammates. He’s probably doing that as well as he ever has. He had several plays he had dribble penetration into the lane, the kick out to Mike or Tony (Snell) or Jimmy that led to high percentage shots, great chemistry with Pau (Gasol) on the pick and roll. He’s a little more patient, but he’s also bringing the best out of his teammates.”

Rose knows it’s not about being the MVP; it’s about being the most valuable he can be to his team and himself.


Bulls.com
User avatar
2Chainz
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,714
And1: 1,010
Joined: Apr 18, 2013

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#2 » by 2Chainz » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:46 am

I have no idea where you got that he lost something athletically. I think what he's saying is that he won't play with such reckless abandon, doing tomahawk dunks when he can just lay it on. You took his words and seemingly made the quote what you wanted when it said nothing of the sort. He didn't say I'm not as fast or can't jump as high.
"My wrist deserve a shout-out, I'm like "What up, wrist?"/My stove deserve a shout-out, I'm like "What up, stove?""
User avatar
Rerisen
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 105,369
And1: 25,052
Joined: Nov 23, 2003

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#3 » by Rerisen » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:56 am

2Chainz wrote:I have no idea where you got that he lost something athletically. I think what he's saying is that he won't play with such reckless abandon, doing tomahawk dunks when he can just lay it on. You took his words and seemingly made the quote what you wanted when it said nothing of the sort. He didn't say I'm not as fast or can't jump as high.


Yeah but Reggie said that's what Derrick believes earlier in the season.

That's why I'm drawing the connection to Derrick here talking as if he is a whole other person now.

It doesn't even matter if Derrick really has lost something or not, to me he looks about 90-95% of what he used to be athletically, which is more than ideal for what we need. Plenty close enough to end up a better player than he was potentially even, if he can find consistency and big minute conditioning,

The more important part I think is his acceptance that he doesn't have to be that guy anymore, maybe doesn't even want to be that guy anymore, is no longer trying to go backwards to reclaim something that was in the past, but ready to only look forward and realize whatever fortune exists for him now.

There is a serenity there now. Whether because he finally reached the playoffs after 3 years trying to get back, or because he is playing at a high level again. I don't know but the clarity of mind reads as a good sign for this team to get down to business and lazer focus on the task at hand.
BullsInBuffalo
Rookie
Posts: 1,100
And1: 423
Joined: Mar 06, 2014
Location: Buffalo, NY
     

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#4 » by BullsInBuffalo » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:59 am

2Chainz wrote:I have no idea where you got that he lost something athletically. I think what he's saying is that he won't play with such reckless abandon, doing tomahawk dunks when he can just lay it on. You took his words and seemingly made the quote what you wanted when it said nothing of the sort. He didn't say I'm not as fast or can't jump as high.

I really miss derrick Rose's tomahawk dunks, lol
User avatar
2Chainz
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,714
And1: 1,010
Joined: Apr 18, 2013

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#5 » by 2Chainz » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:59 am

Rerisen wrote:
2Chainz wrote:I have no idea where you got that he lost something athletically. I think what he's saying is that he won't play with such reckless abandon, doing tomahawk dunks when he can just lay it on. You took his words and seemingly made the quote what you wanted when it said nothing of the sort. He didn't say I'm not as fast or can't jump as high.


Yeah but Reggie said that's what Derrick believes earlier in the season.

That's why I'm drawing the connection to Derrick here talking as if he is a whole other person now.

It doesn't even matter if Derrick really has lost something or not, to me he looks about 90-95% of what he used to be athletically, which is more than ideal for what we need. Plenty close enough to end up a better player than he was potentially even, if he can find consistency and big minute conditioning,

The more important part I think is his acceptance that he doesn't have to be that guy anymore, maybe doesn't even want to be that guy anymore, is no longer trying to go backwards to reclaim something that was in the past, but ready to only look forward and realize whatever fortune exists for him now.

There is a serenity there now. Whether because he finally reached the playoffs after 3 years trying to get back, or because he is playing at a high level again. I don't know but the clarity of mind reads as a good sign for this team to get down to business and lazer focus on the task at hand.


I don't know the Reggie quote but it seems as if this is a major reach.
"My wrist deserve a shout-out, I'm like "What up, wrist?"/My stove deserve a shout-out, I'm like "What up, stove?""
User avatar
Rerisen
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 105,369
And1: 25,052
Joined: Nov 23, 2003

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#6 » by Rerisen » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:05 am

2Chainz wrote:I don't know the Reggie quote but it seems as if this is a major reach.


It was an obscure piece not in a main publication, was posted on this board though, if I can find it I will repost it here for people to draw their own conclusion.

And its entirely possible the quote was open to interpretation. But I take this all as very positive, nothing negative. It's more about getting it all back together mentally truly, than physically. Physically we can argue, is he 90%, 100%, and whose to say Derrick would be quite as athletic at 26 as at 22 even if he never got hurt, but none of that matters if he wasn't in a comfortable place upstairs.

If you can't see a change in his attitude, in his emotions coming out the last few games, the huge relief that he's hit what was obviously a big milestone after going through so much, I don't know what to tell you. But I think its very obvious.
TimRobbins
General Manager
Posts: 8,199
And1: 2,276
Joined: Nov 15, 2014

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#7 » by TimRobbins » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:18 am

I really don't like all this talk in the midst of the playoffs.
User avatar
Rerisen
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 105,369
And1: 25,052
Joined: Nov 23, 2003

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#8 » by Rerisen » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:30 am

TimRobbins wrote:I really don't like all this talk in the midst of the playoffs.


Thinking its premature, I get it.

But even beyond where the Bulls may end up this playoffs, if Derrick can keep playing at near this level, I'll be bummed if the team loses, but there is still a personal redemption story here that I think will be worth appreciating.

People were writing stories that Rose was done, like he was Brandon Roy.

While Stacey King might be saying nothing more than a catchphrase, repeating, "He's baaaack," nonetheless, if Derrick can stay healthy from here on out, he clearly has a heck of a lot left.
TimRobbins
General Manager
Posts: 8,199
And1: 2,276
Joined: Nov 15, 2014

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#9 » by TimRobbins » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:42 am

Rerisen wrote:Thinking its premature, I get it.

But even beyond where the Bulls may end up this playoffs, if Derrick can keep playing at near this level, I'll be bummed if the team loses, but there is still a personal redemption story here that I think will be worth appreciating.

People were writing stories that Rose was done, like he was Brandon Roy.

While Stacey King might be saying nothing more than a catchphrase, repeating, "He's baaaack," nonetheless, if Derrick can stay healthy from here on out, he clearly has a heck of a lot left.


If we get bounced by the Cavs, all the talk of redemption become meaningless and we're looking to next season again.

Rose was never Brandon Roy. His knee problems aren't degenerative (yet). He's more like Amare Stoudomire.

With Derrick going forward the question will always be consistency. He will have nights where he looks great. The question will be how far apart are those nights going to be? I do believe that he has lost some athleticism, which means he needs to exert more energy to be effective every game. It will probably only be next season where we get the answers on who the new Derrick Rose is?
User avatar
coldfish
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 60,545
And1: 37,788
Joined: Jun 11, 2004
Location: Right in the middle
   

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#10 » by coldfish » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:26 am

At 15.9 PER, Derrick had his worst year as a pro this year. That's not even getting into his defense, which I also thought was worse than his rookie year. While there were some games and short stretches where he looked great, the overall was not good. And let's be honest, players on the decline often have a few throwback games. A few great games from a declining player don't necessarily indicate an upcoming turnaround.

Its only been 3 games, but Rose actually has his career high for playoff PER and its not by a small amount. He is at 25.5 and his previous career best was 22.5. Not only that, but his defense has been great. His playoff shooting has been career best by a mile and its not like Milwaukee is a schlub defense. They were #4 in the NBA and are giving significant effort and being very physical.

If he continues this, it will be pretty good evidence that:
- He still has it
- He was coasting heavily all year or his knee was bothering him all year
User avatar
johnnyvann840
RealGM
Posts: 34,207
And1: 18,703
Joined: Sep 04, 2010

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#11 » by johnnyvann840 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:47 am

Call it a puff piece but I thought it was good. Good read. Sam is right.. Derrick didn't have to work as hard as he did. Nobody has ever come back from what he did to be close to what I've seen the last week anyway. Baron Davis.. OK for a fleeting moment. So, Derrick needs to sustain this, but it is remarkable, nonetheless and Sam brings up some things a lot of people probably don't look at as far as the huge changes in his life and that he already made his money and a lot guys in position have not been strong enough to come back.

Yeah, the candy thing in the beginning was a little off-putting but if you know the Skittle story and how Derrick has changed his diet, it makes more sense and reads better.
I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth. - Hunter S. Thompson
User avatar
johnnyvann840
RealGM
Posts: 34,207
And1: 18,703
Joined: Sep 04, 2010

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#12 » by johnnyvann840 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:07 pm

“The joy, the appreciation, just everything about basketball,” Rose explained. “For someone like myself to go through three surgeries at a young age, your whole perspective of the game and life is different. Especially having a son, your appreciation of the game, your appreciation of the fans, just seeing everybody jump off the wagon, get back on the wagon; it’s fun. It’s part of it. You can’t get mad at people. You can’t get mad at the fans.

“People are always going to have opinions,” said Rose. “It’s just funny to hear their opinions and get motivated by them.


I like this part.
I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth. - Hunter S. Thompson
User avatar
Repeat 3-peat
RealGM
Posts: 14,913
And1: 15,432
Joined: Nov 02, 2013
 

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#13 » by Repeat 3-peat » Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:46 pm

Tbh that same player is still in him but every player get's smarter and change cause it's a part of the game, you've got too. This Rose you see now reminds me of the 2011-2012 Rose.

It's the perfect play for Derrick and the team to succeed. The guy doesn't even play reckless and can score 23-25 points like it's noting.
Image
User avatar
johnnyvann840
RealGM
Posts: 34,207
And1: 18,703
Joined: Sep 04, 2010

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#14 » by johnnyvann840 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:59 pm

TimRobbins wrote:
Rose was never Brandon Roy. His knee problems aren't degenerative (yet). He's more like Amare Stoudomire.


Not really. Amare was still beasting until multiple micro-fracture surgeries. Derrick is only 26 and has not had micro fracture at all.
I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth. - Hunter S. Thompson
McBulls
General Manager
Posts: 7,603
And1: 3,564
Joined: Dec 10, 2006
   

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#15 » by McBulls » Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:36 pm

It's hard for me, and probably most everyone else to understand what it must be like to make a living in a spectator sport where literally millions of people scrutinize and criticize every move and every decision you make.

Most of us have jobs or are students that involve evaluation of our performance from time to time. But those evaluations are typically done by someone who has expertise and is somewhat sympathetic or may even be jointly involved in our work. Pro athletes are young men who are exposed to a dizzying array of people with a wide variety of expertise in many different areas from health to detailed analysis of their performance. The audience includes some of the most famous and accomplished players of the past, as well and highly knowledgeable reporters and commentators -- each of whom has their own motivations for their opinions, and, moreover, tend to express their opinions passionately.

Then there are the fans, some of whom who pay considerable money which a good fraction of which goes to the athletes...

Not feeling sorry for Derrick. He's made an astounding amount of money doing what he does. But I confess a complete lack of understanding of his problems adjusting to the ups and downs of his job.
User avatar
Mech Engineer
RealGM
Posts: 16,802
And1: 4,804
Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Location: NW Suburbs

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#16 » by Mech Engineer » Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:57 pm

Derrick is in a good position to reflect on his past and act upon it when he is relatively young. Not many people have that luck. It is not that he did something wrong but more on how to deal with adversity.

Losing to Cleveland will not define anything. It takes time and he will be more motivated next year. If the Bulls lose to Cleveland, it is not the end of Derrick's peak. It is tough to win when you have been in and out of lineups against elite competition.

Looking at the Spurs yesterday....you could tell how they trust, instinctively know how to play with each other. It is familiarity and I doubt the Bulls have it this year. They need some luck but that doesn't mean Derrick is not on a upcurve.
BoocheeMan1117
Pro Prospect
Posts: 855
And1: 262
Joined: Jan 25, 2015
       

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#17 » by BoocheeMan1117 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:08 pm

Recklessness caused him to tear his ACL. I'll pass on experiencing that again. You guys should be happy with what he said in this article.
RememberLu
RealGM
Posts: 14,877
And1: 8,448
Joined: Feb 22, 2014

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#18 » by RememberLu » Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:11 pm

it's been 3 games and people are quoting his playoff #'s like it means anything

you can tell we're fans
User avatar
RedBulls23
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 38,338
And1: 21,318
Joined: Jan 19, 2009
Location: Waiting in Grant Park
       

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#19 » by RedBulls23 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:12 pm

coldfish wrote:At 15.9 PER, Derrick had his worst year as a pro this year. That's not even getting into his defense, which I also thought was worse than his rookie year. While there were some games and short stretches where he looked great, the overall was not good. And let's be honest, players on the decline often have a few throwback games. A few great games from a declining player don't necessarily indicate an upcoming turnaround.

Its only been 3 games, but Rose actually has his career high for playoff PER and its not by a small amount. He is at 25.5 and his previous career best was 22.5. Not only that, but his defense has been great. His playoff shooting has been career best by a mile and its not like Milwaukee is a schlub defense. They were #4 in the NBA and are giving significant effort and being very physical.

If he continues this, it will be pretty good evidence that:
- He still has it
- He was coasting heavily all year or his knee was bothering him all year

More likely that his knee was bothering him.

But we'll have to see how the rest of the playoffs go.
My Tweets:@Salim_BGhoops
Keller61
RealGM
Posts: 10,128
And1: 5,041
Joined: Feb 12, 2013

Re: Sam Smith: Reflective Rose looks forward 

Post#20 » by Keller61 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:39 pm

I think Derrick is being too hard on his old self. He always had a pretty well-balanced game in terms of scoring and distributing. Maybe he is talking about recklessness in terms of pushing his body too much. In any case, I think we will find out next year if he is really better than before.

Return to Chicago Bulls