Jimmy Butler's maturation

[Chi town]

Love Sam's Smith comment about how no one saw Curry and Klay making the gigantic leap they did last year. IMO if they can so can Jimmy especially with a coaching change ala Kerry to Hoiberg.

I've been seeing for sometime now a scenario where Jimmy becomes the leader and not Rose. I think there is only one conclusion for that. Jimmy stays and Rose gets shipped out. That's an entirely different convo though.

[bulliedog8]

I'm an advocate of which of the two players have it going on any particular night. If it's Rose....then we ride on Rose's coattails...if it's Butler then we lean on Butler.

I know people like to make a big deal of it with Westbrook and Durant.

But that is what I want with the Bulls. Would rather have 2 alphas, who the national public thinks are beefing, and win. Over 1 alpha and one just good player. If Kobe and Shaq could co exist while not liking each other, anyone can. As long as they have the same on the court goals, which is winning a title. Both Rose and Butler has the same on the court aspirations. Winning the whole thing. They are 2 alphas that will just have to co exist on the court.

[bledredwine]

I agree with whomever said that Jimmy (like Kobe) really doesn't have a limit.

And I've thought so from day one when he was randomly hitting Kobe fadeaways at the buzzer in preseason (every once in a while).
He has the work ethic, athleticism, IQ, drive, body control etc. His defense is fantastic. I remember saying then "He has a very very high ceiling. We'll see if he reaches it" or something to that effect.

Anyway, wouldn't be surprised to see a still-improved Jimmy this year.

[Teh-Monkey-Man]

He's bringing some of of what #23 used to provide for the team (not that Butler is in ANY way Michael Jordan).

Until Rose returns to the lineup....I'm excited to see what the Bulls will do on the court. Not that I can get most of the preseaon games....but when does the first game of the preseason start?

For the Bulls it's Tuesday, October 6th @ 8pm eastern. For the league - I believe preseason starts tonight. Clipper and Nuggets.

Crap Cubs and Bulls on the same night?!?

Relax, the Wildcard game is on the 7th

[LadyBullsfan]

For the Bulls it's Tuesday, October 6th @ 8pm eastern. For the league - I believe preseason starts tonight. Clipper and Nuggets.

Crap Cubs and Bulls on the same night?!?

Relax, the Wildcard game is on the 7th

Aw okay thanks! Whew I worried for a second.

[transplant]

Jimmy Butler sure appears to me to be just about everything you want in a star player for your team...great on the court and great off the court as well. He also has an edge to him...I like that a lot.

[bentheredengthat]

To me this thread is a huge step toward the Bulls board being ready for the new NBA season.

Great thread, and nice to see some Bulls board vets contributing & authoring top notch articles.

Go Bulls! IMHO lots to be excited about this season, with Jimmy being at the top of my list.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Crazy how Jimmy was the 30th pick in his class and now is the best player. (yes, he's better than Kyrie)

GarPax don't get enough credit.

[NecessaryEvil]

Crazy how Jimmy was the 30th pick in his class and now is the best player. (yes, he's better than Kyrie)

GarPax don't get enough credit.

I don't think they knew anymore than anyone else that this guy was going to ascend the way he did. Credit is given but the real credit is the passion and hard work of Jimmy Butler.

Hell, he could of just been content to make it in the league.

I think he puts up Paul George-like numbers this season

[johnnyvann840]

From Mark's piece:

Contested pull up jumpers are a must for the superstars of the game, as is isolation scoring. Again, this certainly wasn't a strength for Butler, and most definitely an aspect of play that requires expansion. 97 players in the league last season scored 50 or more points from isolation plays, as per NBA.com. Of these players, Butler would rank 72nd in points per possession (0.81 PPP).

In contrast, despite his overall struggles and scoring inefficiencies, one area that Derrick Rose continued to excel was his isolation scoring. Using the same data parameters, Rose would place 10th overall, converting 1.05 points per possession and ranking in the 90.2 percentile of all isolation scorers. You can now begin to understand why Tom Thibodeau would often have Derrick Rose as the closer over the overall more efficient Butler - he was simply a better one-on-one scorer.

There was a thread that asked "Even if Derrick Rose is at full health next season, should Jimmy Butler be the first scoring option," the above is why I do not believe he should be.

However, re: the bold, if he shows vast improvement in his iso and mid-range (pull-up) game this coming season, I think I'd be behind the idea of Jimmy as a #1. As it currently stands, though, he's not a #1 option.

Exactly. They get their points in such different ways.. one of the reasons Jimmy was able to break out the way did is because he had Derrick Rose next to him drawing a lot of attention most of the time. If you look at Jimmy's game, in iso he had a tough time scoring. If he were the main focus of the defense his efficiency would take a big hit.

[johnnyvann840]

Jimmy is not THE leader of bulls team.

I could go along with that....but ONE of the leaders...he's striving to achieve that goal as we speak.

I think he is saying one of the leaders.... but right now we are starting the camp and preseason without Rose. he mentions when Rose comes back and how they have to mesh.

Rose is still the most important player for the Bulls, as they are not contending for a ring unless he’s healthy and playing. Butler however is the new leader of the team and is starting to come into his own as a star player. Once Rose comes back, those two have to develop a better chemistry with one another on the floor and play off each other.

[pb-ceo]

Jimmy is not the leader of bulls team.

jimmy definitely taking the wheel right now...don't think he will let it go.

[pb-ceo]

From Mark's piece:

Contested pull up jumpers are a must for the superstars of the game, as is isolation scoring. Again, this certainly wasn't a strength for Butler, and most definitely an aspect of play that requires expansion. 97 players in the league last season scored 50 or more points from isolation plays, as per NBA.com. Of these players, Butler would rank 72nd in points per possession (0.81 PPP).

In contrast, despite his overall struggles and scoring inefficiencies, one area that Derrick Rose continued to excel was his isolation scoring. Using the same data parameters, Rose would place 10th overall, converting 1.05 points per possession and ranking in the 90.2 percentile of all isolation scorers. You can now begin to understand why Tom Thibodeau would often have Derrick Rose as the closer over the overall more efficient Butler - he was simply a better one-on-one scorer.

There was a thread that asked "Even if Derrick Rose is at full health next season, should Jimmy Butler be the first scoring option," the above is why I do not believe he should be.

However, re: the bold, if he shows vast improvement in his iso and mid-range (pull-up) game this coming season, I think I'd be behind the idea of Jimmy as a #1. As it currently stands, though, he's not a #1 option.

Exactly. They get their points in such different ways.. one of the reasons Jimmy was able to break out the way did is because he had Derrick Rose next to him drawing a lot of attention most of the time. If you look at Jimmy's game, in iso he had a tough time scoring. If he were the main focus of the defense his efficiency would take a big hit.

interesting narrative but imo it's false. jimmy was far better when he wasn't beside starting pg who was selfish with the rock. jimmy shined when starting pg was out with another injury, when he played alongside a pass first pg. and they do score in different ways. jimmy = High Efficiency/ starting pg = High Volume.

[Keller61]

From Mark's piece:



There was a thread that asked "Even if Derrick Rose is at full health next season, should Jimmy Butler be the first scoring option," the above is why I do not believe he should be.

However, re: the bold, if he shows vast improvement in his iso and mid-range (pull-up) game this coming season, I think I'd be behind the idea of Jimmy as a #1. As it currently stands, though, he's not a #1 option.

Exactly. They get their points in such different ways.. one of the reasons Jimmy was able to break out the way did is because he had Derrick Rose next to him drawing a lot of attention most of the time. If you look at Jimmy's game, in iso he had a tough time scoring. If he were the main focus of the defense his efficiency would take a big hit.

interesting narrative but imo it's false. jimmy was far better when he wasn't beside starting pg who was selfish with the rock. jimmy shined when starting pg was out with another injury, when he played alongside a pass first pg. and they do score in different ways. jimmy = High Efficiency/ starting pg = High Volume.

I don't know where to find the stats, but I thought I heard that Jimmy's efficiency was a lot better with Derrick on the court.

[Keller61]

Crazy how Jimmy was the 30th pick in his class and now is the best player. (yes, he's better than Kyrie)

GarPax don't get enough credit.

I don't think they knew anymore than anyone else that this guy was going to ascend the way he did. Credit is given but the real credit is the passion and hard work of Jimmy Butler.

Hell, he could of just been content to make it in the league.

I think he puts up Paul George-like numbers this season

He already put up comparable numbers to Paul George, although PG was more of a shot-creator.

'13-'14 PG: 21.7 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 3.5 apg, 2.8 tpg, 55.5% TS
'14-'15 JB: 20.0 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.4 tpg, 58.3% TS

One thing people don't mention enough is Jimmy's really low turnovers (1.4 per game in 39 mpg).

[johnnyvann840]

Exactly. They get their points in such different ways.. one of the reasons Jimmy was able to break out the way did is because he had Derrick Rose next to him drawing a lot of attention most of the time. If you look at Jimmy's game, in iso he had a tough time scoring. If he were the main focus of the defense his efficiency would take a big hit.

interesting narrative but imo it's false. jimmy was far better when he wasn't beside starting pg who was selfish with the rock. jimmy shined when starting pg was out with another injury, when he played alongside a pass first pg. and they do score in different ways. jimmy = High Efficiency/ starting pg = High Volume.

That's why it's good that it's just your opinion, because you're wrong.. lets just go by the most recent two seasons and playoffs... it's not even close.

Jimmy without Derrick

13.5 PER .522 TS% .... whole season

11.6 PER .507 TS% .. playoffs

Jimmy with Derrick

21.3 PER .583 TS%.... reg season

20.8 PER .562 TS% ...playoffs

read the part of Mark's article again that I was responding to... even in his bad season last year, Derrick was among the best in the NBA at scoring in isolation.... Jimmy was one of the worst...

certainly wasn't a strength for Butler, and most definitely an aspect of play that requires expansion. 97 players in the league last season scored 50 or more points from isolation plays, as per NBA.com. Of these players, Butler would rank 72nd in points per possession (0.81 PPP).

In contrast, despite his overall struggles and scoring inefficiencies, one area that Derrick Rose continued to excel was his isolation scoring. Using the same data parameters, Rose would place 10th overall, converting 1.05 points per possession and ranking in the 90.2 percentile of all isolation scorers. You can now begin to understand why Tom Thibodeau would often have Derrick Rose as the closer over the overall more efficient Butler - he was simply a better one-on-one scorer.

[ChicagoStrong]

Exactly. They get their points in such different ways.. one of the reasons Jimmy was able to break out the way did is because he had Derrick Rose next to him drawing a lot of attention most of the time. If you look at Jimmy's game, in iso he had a tough time scoring. If he were the main focus of the defense his efficiency would take a big hit.

interesting narrative but imo it's false. jimmy was far better when he wasn't beside starting pg who was selfish with the rock. jimmy shined when starting pg was out with another injury, when he played alongside a pass first pg. and they do score in different ways. jimmy = High Efficiency/ starting pg = High Volume.

That's whay it's good that it's just your opinion, because you''re wrong.. lets just go by the most recent two seasons and playoffs... it's not even close.

Jimmy without Derrick

13.5 PER .522 TS% .... whole season

11.6 PER .507 TS% .. playoffs

Jimmy with Derrick

21.3 PER .583 TS%.... reg season

20.8 PER .562 TS% ...playoffs

2014-15 without Derrick Rose

20.8 PPG / .466 FG% / 7.4 FTA / .574 TS%

It's about the same

[Mk0]

Butler naturally owes it all to sitting and learning behind the classiest gentleman in the league, Luol

People tend to overlook that relationship, but having a vet who can teach you how to be a NBA player is just massive for the progression of a player.

Luol has always been a consummate professional, who was a great leader and a pillar of the community, not only for Chicago but for his native Sudan. Having someone like that to guide you into your career is one of the best situations you can ask for.

[RedBulls23]

interesting narrative but imo it's false. jimmy was far better when he wasn't beside starting pg who was selfish with the rock. jimmy shined when starting pg was out with another injury, when he played alongside a pass first pg. and they do score in different ways. jimmy = High Efficiency/ starting pg = High Volume.

That's whay it's good that it's just your opinion, because you''re wrong.. lets just go by the most recent two seasons and playoffs... it's not even close.

Jimmy without Derrick

13.5 PER .522 TS% .... whole season

11.6 PER .507 TS% .. playoffs

Jimmy with Derrick

21.3 PER .583 TS%.... reg season

20.8 PER .562 TS% ...playoffs

2014-15 without Derrick Rose

20.8 PPG / .466 FG% / 7.4 FTA / .574 TS%

It's about the same

Where did both of you get your numbers from?

[ChicagoStrong]

Where did both of you get your numbers from?

I just compiled the games Butler played when Rose was inactive, then I used this site to get the TS%