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Friendly comparison...

First, I realize Jimmy may never get 6 Rings so use that in this debate how you see fit.

But I just want to see what people think about Jimmy's possibility of becoming the 2nd Best Bull ever. What would it take for Jimmy to surpass Scottie? And do you think he's capable of it?

Nope.

Save me the efficiency argument too.

It wont be capable. ever. Jimmy is not a franchise player. Right now Jimmy is poor version of James Harden without jumpshot but with defense. He is basically glorified Stuckey.

MC3 wrote:He is basically glorifed Stuckey.

Come on man.

No but, Jimmy will be the Scottie Pippen of this team to Wades Jordan.

IMO, Pippen gets a weeee bit overrated from time to time. He wasn't an offensive god. His defense was just as good as it is said. Butler will never equal him on that end. His arms aren't long enough.

Basically, Jimmy would have to become significantly better than he is now on offense to equal Pippen. The one area that stands out as an opening is 3p shooting, where Pip wasn't that great. Unfortunately, Butler doesn't look to be all that either.

So, as a guy who doesn't worship the ground that Pip walked on, I don't think that Jimmy can reach him.

Well I compared them here

viewtopic.php?p=49122392#p49122392

MC3 wrote:He is basically glorified Stuckey.

You gotta give him a lot of glory for that to work.

I think talent wise, he's actually very close to Pippen but the biggest gap to bridge is understanding the game. Pippen was one of the smartest players to ever play. Butler's not there yet.

coldfish wrote:IMO, Pippen gets a weeee bit overrated from time to time. He wasn't an offensive god. His defense was just as good as it is said. Butler will never equal him on that end. His arms aren't long enough.

Basically, Jimmy would have to become significantly better than he is now on offense to equal Pippen. The one area that stands out as an opening is 3p shooting, where Pip wasn't that great. Unfortunately, Butler doesn't look to be all that either.

So, as a guy who doesn't worship the ground that Pip walked on, I don't think that Jimmy can reach him.

Yes, I love Pippen but I do think Bulls fans overrate him and Kukoc.

Jimmy can never be Pip on D, no. He could in theory become a better scorer if he's not already, but I doubt Jimmy has much improvement left.

Not even comparable honestly, especially since we're comparing a finished product in Pippen vs. what is still an un-finished product in Jimmy. I'll easily take Pippen over Jimmy as of now any day of the week, but Jimmy does still have years left in his Prime, so you never know (doubt he has a better career, but Jimmy has shown the ability to improve his game almost every year now).

League Circles wrote:

coldfish wrote:IMO, Pippen gets a weeee bit overrated from time to time. He wasn't an offensive god. His defense was just as good as it is said. Butler will never equal him on that end. His arms aren't long enough.

Basically, Jimmy would have to become significantly better than he is now on offense to equal Pippen. The one area that stands out as an opening is 3p shooting, where Pip wasn't that great. Unfortunately, Butler doesn't look to be all that either.

So, as a guy who doesn't worship the ground that Pip walked on, I don't think that Jimmy can reach him.

Yes, I love Pippen but I do think Bulls fans overrate him and Kukoc.

Jimmy can never be Pip on D, no. He could in theory become a better scorer if he's not already, but I doubt Jimmy has much improvement left.

Pippen is rated as one of the greatest of all-time by basketball scholars and experts. This board does not voerrate him, if anything this board underrates him.

Jimmy is not even in the same league. Pippen was a better ball handler, better passer, better defender, and more dominant scorer (he was never the go-to guy or his scoring stats would reflect that as well). There isn't a single thing Butler is better at than Pippen was.

Stratmaster wrote:

League Circles wrote:

coldfish wrote:IMO, Pippen gets a weeee bit overrated from time to time. He wasn't an offensive god. His defense was just as good as it is said. Butler will never equal him on that end. His arms aren't long enough.

Basically, Jimmy would have to become significantly better than he is now on offense to equal Pippen. The one area that stands out as an opening is 3p shooting, where Pip wasn't that great. Unfortunately, Butler doesn't look to be all that either.

So, as a guy who doesn't worship the ground that Pip walked on, I don't think that Jimmy can reach him.

Yes, I love Pippen but I do think Bulls fans overrate him and Kukoc.

Jimmy can never be Pip on D, no. He could in theory become a better scorer if he's not already, but I doubt Jimmy has much improvement left.

Pippen is rated as one of the greatest of all-time by basketball scholars and experts. This board does not voerrate him, if anything this board underrates him.

Jimmy is not even in the same league. Pippen was a better ball handler, better passer, better defender, and more dominant scorer (he was never the go-to guy or his scoring stats would reflect that as well). There isn't a single thing Butler is better at than Pippen was.

Well said. The part in bold pretty much wraps up the comparison. Might be better to pose this question after Jimmy's prime when comparing him to a Prime Pippen

For our sake, i HOPE he does approach Pippen's talents

HomoSapien wrote:I think talent wise, he's actually very close to Pippen but the biggest gap to bridge is understanding the game. Pippen was one of the smartest players to ever play. Butler's not there yet.

Eh. Pippen was a physical freak too though. Jimmy is a high caliber NBA athlete, don't get me wrong. But he's a step down from Pippen athletically.

To answer the OP, no. I am a Butler fan, but he is not a historically elite NBA talent. Pippen was.

Side note: the timeless argument about whether Pippen is overrated proves that he is, if anything, underrated. The existence of the position defeats the position.

Stratmaster wrote:

League Circles wrote:

coldfish wrote:IMO, Pippen gets a weeee bit overrated from time to time. He wasn't an offensive god. His defense was just as good as it is said. Butler will never equal him on that end. His arms aren't long enough.

Basically, Jimmy would have to become significantly better than he is now on offense to equal Pippen. The one area that stands out as an opening is 3p shooting, where Pip wasn't that great. Unfortunately, Butler doesn't look to be all that either.

So, as a guy who doesn't worship the ground that Pip walked on, I don't think that Jimmy can reach him.

Yes, I love Pippen but I do think Bulls fans overrate him and Kukoc.

Jimmy can never be Pip on D, no. He could in theory become a better scorer if he's not already, but I doubt Jimmy has much improvement left.

Pippen is rated as one of the greatest of all-time by basketball scholars and experts. This board does not voerrate him, if anything this board underrates him.

Jimmy is not even in the same league. Pippen was a better ball handler, better passer, better defender, and more dominant scorer (he was never the go-to guy or his scoring stats would reflect that as well). There isn't a single thing Butler is better at than Pippen was.

Experts regard Pippen is one of the greatest what? One of the greatest 50 players ever? Sure at the time that the list was made which was a very long time ago. I don't consider that to be one of the greatest of all-time quote.

I don't think Jimmy can be as good as Pippen but it's only because of defense. Jimmy is already as good of a scorer as Pippen ever was if you look at pp36 and TS%. Better frankly. And Pippen did vet at least a year or two of being the #1 guy. He put up scoring numbers no better or worse than Butler, who has never been able to be the #1 guy.

Additionally, Butler had far more scoring depth talent around him. Dynasty Bulls had next to no scoring talent beyond MJ, Scottie, Toni and to a much lesser extent BJ, Kerr, Grant etc.

I agree on the overall, the defense, the passing and ball handling. But scoring is a huge component to the game.

Stratmaster wrote:

League Circles wrote:

coldfish wrote:IMO, Pippen gets a weeee bit overrated from time to time. He wasn't an offensive god. His defense was just as good as it is said. Butler will never equal him on that end. His arms aren't long enough.

Basically, Jimmy would have to become significantly better than he is now on offense to equal Pippen. The one area that stands out as an opening is 3p shooting, where Pip wasn't that great. Unfortunately, Butler doesn't look to be all that either.

So, as a guy who doesn't worship the ground that Pip walked on, I don't think that Jimmy can reach him.

Yes, I love Pippen but I do think Bulls fans overrate him and Kukoc.

Jimmy can never be Pip on D, no. He could in theory become a better scorer if he's not already, but I doubt Jimmy has much improvement left.

Pippen is rated as one of the greatest of all-time by basketball scholars and experts. This board does not voerrate him, if anything this board underrates him.

Jimmy is not even in the same league. Pippen was a better ball handler, better passer, better defender, and more dominant scorer (he was never the go-to guy or his scoring stats would reflect that as well). There isn't a single thing Butler is better at than Pippen was.

Experts regard Pippen is one of the greatest what? One of the greatest 50 players ever? Sure at the time that the list was made which was a very long time ago. I don't consider that to be one of the greatest of all-time quote.

I don't think Jimmy can be as good as Pippen but it's only because of defense. Jimmy is already as good of a scorer as Pippen ever was if you look at pp36 and TS%. Better frankly. And Pippen did vet at least a year or two of being the #1 guy. He put up scoring numbers no better or worse than Butler, who has never been able to be the #1 guy.

Additionally, Butler had far more scoring depth talent around him. Dynasty Bulls had next to no scoring talent beyond MJ, Scottie, Toni and to a much lesser extent BJ, Kerr, Grant etc.

I agree on the overall, the defense, the passing and ball handling. But scoring is a huge component to the game.

It's not the most scientific method, League, but I did a quick google for top ten NBA small forwards and every list I saw had Pippen in the five except ESPN, who had him 6th.

Regardless of your view, he's accepted widely as a historically elite player.

SlimD235 wrote:

Stratmaster wrote:

League Circles wrote:
Yes, I love Pippen but I do think Bulls fans overrate him and Kukoc.

Jimmy can never be Pip on D, no. He could in theory become a better scorer if he's not already, but I doubt Jimmy has much improvement left.

Pippen is rated as one of the greatest of all-time by basketball scholars and experts. This board does not voerrate him, if anything this board underrates him.

Jimmy is not even in the same league. Pippen was a better ball handler, better passer, better defender, and more dominant scorer (he was never the go-to guy or his scoring stats would reflect that as well). There isn't a single thing Butler is better at than Pippen was.

Well said. The part in bold pretty much wraps up the comparison. Might be better to pose this question after Jimmy's prime when comparing him to a Prime Pippen

For our sake, i HOPE he does approach Pippen's talents

Jimmy may only be better than drawing fouls lol

NO