Time to say NO to NikO? - update Niko signed 2/27

[bearadonisdna]

Yeah niko probably has no trade value. If teams dont want to take on his contract right now they wont give up an asset to take on his contract.

That being said the bulls offered the qualifying offer. Which is par for the course. Niko is still a young player for the most part. I think the bulls would have to take on salary to trade niko.

Who says that teams don't want to take on Mirotic's contract right now?

I would say teams dont want to take on his contract because he is currently a Fa and can be signed with giving up assets.

[JeremyB0001]

Yeah niko probably has no trade value. If teams dont want to take on his contract right now they wont give up an asset to take on his contract.

That being said the bulls offered the qualifying offer. Which is par for the course. Niko is still a young player for the most part. I think the bulls would have to take on salary to trade niko.

Who says that teams don't want to take on Mirotic's contract right now?

I would say teams dont want to take on his contract because he is currently a Fa and can be signed with giving up assets.

Well, yeah, I was going to point that out - he currently has no contract to take on.

At most, there just a few teams in the NBA that can currently sign Mirotic. Because he's a restricted free agent, teams can only sign Mirotic if they have enough cap space to sign him to a contract so big that the Bulls won't want to match. I imagine that the Bulls would match a contract up to $12 million per season without blinking. That's what many think they've already offered Mirotic. Only three teams other than the Bulls have over $12 million cap space: the Mavs, the 76ers, and the Suns. There may or may not be a few other teams that could clear that kind of cap space without having to give up assets to do so. So there are 25+ teams that would have to do a sign-and-trade to acquire Mirotic right now. I would guess that the Bulls and teams interested in Mirotic would prefer not to do a sign-and-trade. Teams will be more comfortable trading for him and the Bulls will get more in return if Mirotic first signs a reasonable contract with the Bulls and then plays decently as one of the team's top options.

[dice]

is niko restricted because of league rules for non-standard rookie deals or something?

[JeremyB0001]

is niko restricted because of league rules for non-standard rookie deals or something?

He's restricted just like most any player coming off of his first contract. There are exceptions where the player is not restricted if his contract wasn't the right number of years but they don't apply to Mirotic and his three-year deal. With a major prospect like Mirotic who's not signing a standard rookie contract (which always ends with restricted free agency) teams tend to make certain that the contract doesn't fit into one of those exceptions that would allow the player to enter unrestricted free agency when it ends.

[transplant]

Seems to me that the Bulls are playing this about right. They'd like to retain Mirotic as an asset if he can be retained as an attractive asset. There's a price point which, if exceeded, would make him an unattractive asset and the Bulls rightly want no part of that.

I think it has little to do with Mirotic's potential value as a player on the 2017-18 team.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[dice]

is niko restricted because of league rules for non-standard rookie deals or something?

He's restricted just like most any player coming off of his first contract. There are exceptions where the player is not restricted if his contract wasn't the right number of years but they don't apply to Mirotic and his three-year deal. With a major prospect like Mirotic who's not signing a standard rookie contract (which always ends with restricted free agency) teams tend to make certain that the contract doesn't fit into one of those exceptions that would allow the player to enter unrestricted free agency when it ends.

the standard rookie deal becomes unrestricted once the contract is up. a new deal has generally been struck by that time though

how many years does the non-standard deal have to be in order to make it unrestricted at the end of the deal? is niko restricted in perpetuity until a new deal becomes official?

[dice]

Seems to me that the Bulls are playing this about right. They'd like to retain Mirotic as an asset if he can be retained as an attractive asset. There's a price point which, if exceeded, would make him an unattractive asset and the Bulls rightly want no part of that.

I think it has little to do with Mirotic's potential value as a player on the 2017-18 team.

aka a liability

[BR0D1E86]

is niko restricted because of league rules for non-standard rookie deals or something?

He's restricted just like most any player coming off of his first contract. There are exceptions where the player is not restricted if his contract wasn't the right number of years but they don't apply to Mirotic and his three-year deal. With a major prospect like Mirotic who's not signing a standard rookie contract (which always ends with restricted free agency) teams tend to make certain that the contract doesn't fit into one of those exceptions that would allow the player to enter unrestricted free agency when it ends.

the standard rookie deal becomes unrestricted once the contract is up. a new deal has generally been struck by that time though

how many years does the non-standard deal have to be in order to make it unrestricted at the end of the deal? is niko restricted in perpetuity until a new deal becomes official?

Sort of, players are restricted free agents at the end of their 4 year rookie deal, but they can just sign the qualifying offer instead and then be unrestricted. Or if the team doesn't offer the QO, they're unrestricted.

Veteran free agents who have been in the league three or fewer seasons are also restricted, which is where Mirotic falls.

[JeremyB0001]

He's restricted just like most any player coming off of his first contract. There are exceptions where the player is not restricted if his contract wasn't the right number of years but they don't apply to Mirotic and his three-year deal. With a major prospect like Mirotic who's not signing a standard rookie contract (which always ends with restricted free agency) teams tend to make certain that the contract doesn't fit into one of those exceptions that would allow the player to enter unrestricted free agency when it ends.

the standard rookie deal becomes unrestricted once the contract is up. a new deal has generally been struck by that time though

how many years does the non-standard deal have to be in order to make it unrestricted at the end of the deal? is niko restricted in perpetuity until a new deal becomes official?

Sort of, players are restricted free agents at the end of their 4 year rookie deal, but they can just sign the qualifying offer instead and then be unrestricted. Or if the team doesn't offer the QO, they're unrestricted.

Veteran free agents who have been in the league three or fewer seasons are also restricted, which is where Mirotic falls.

Yes, the standard four-year rookie contract entered into by almost all first-round picks ends with restricted free agency, unless the team doesn't pick up one of the option seasons or doesn't extend the qualifying offer. Mirotic wasn't on that standard contract because he stayed overseas for a while after he was drafted. That sounds right that three years or less is the length his contract had to be in order for him to be restricted when the deal ended.

[dice]

the standard rookie deal becomes unrestricted once the contract is up. a new deal has generally been struck by that time though

how many years does the non-standard deal have to be in order to make it unrestricted at the end of the deal? is niko restricted in perpetuity until a new deal becomes official?

Sort of, players are restricted free agents at the end of their 4 year rookie deal, but they can just sign the qualifying offer instead and then be unrestricted. Or if the team doesn't offer the QO, they're unrestricted.

Veteran free agents who have been in the league three or fewer seasons are also restricted, which is where Mirotic falls.

Yes, the standard four-year rookie contract entered into by almost all first-round picks ends with restricted free agency, unless the team doesn't pick up one of the option seasons or doesn't extend the qualifying offer

when the contract actually ends (failure to extend QO or at the end of the 5th year), the player is unrestricted. the player is, in effect, under contract at all times until that point. there is at no point a state of uncontracted limbo like the mirotic situation. that's what prompted my question

[BR0D1E86]

Sort of, players are restricted free agents at the end of their 4 year rookie deal, but they can just sign the qualifying offer instead and then be unrestricted. Or if the team doesn't offer the QO, they're unrestricted.

Veteran free agents who have been in the league three or fewer seasons are also restricted, which is where Mirotic falls.

Yes, the standard four-year rookie contract entered into by almost all first-round picks ends with restricted free agency, unless the team doesn't pick up one of the option seasons or doesn't extend the qualifying offer

when the contract actually ends (failure to extend QO or at the end of the 5th year), the player is unrestricted. the player is, in effect, under contract at all times until that point. there is at no point a state of uncontracted limbo like the mirotic situation. that's what prompted my question

I guess it depends on how you look at the qualifying offer, as part of the rookie contract or as something else. But we're all saying the same thing either way.

[JeremyB0001]

Sort of, players are restricted free agents at the end of their 4 year rookie deal, but they can just sign the qualifying offer instead and then be unrestricted. Or if the team doesn't offer the QO, they're unrestricted.

Veteran free agents who have been in the league three or fewer seasons are also restricted, which is where Mirotic falls.

Yes, the standard four-year rookie contract entered into by almost all first-round picks ends with restricted free agency, unless the team doesn't pick up one of the option seasons or doesn't extend the qualifying offer

when the contract actually ends (failure to extend QO or at the end of the 5th year), the player is unrestricted. the player is, in effect, under contract at all times until that point. there is at no point a state of uncontracted limbo like the mirotic situation. that's what prompted my question

No, the player wouldn't be under contract during the free agency period after the fourth year, when the qualifying offer has been extended. He's an unrestricted free agent and can go out an sign an offer sheet with another team. Yes, his team can choose to match it but I think it's hard to say that a player is effectively under contract when he's negotiating and signing onto the terms of his next contract with a different team. Players under contract can't say so much as a word to other teams about signing with them or it's tampering.

[MadGrinch]

Yes, the standard four-year rookie contract entered into by almost all first-round picks ends with restricted free agency, unless the team doesn't pick up one of the option seasons or doesn't extend the qualifying offer

when the contract actually ends (failure to extend QO or at the end of the 5th year), the player is unrestricted. the player is, in effect, under contract at all times until that point. there is at no point a state of uncontracted limbo like the mirotic situation. that's what prompted my question

No, the player wouldn't be under contract during the free agency period after the fourth year, when the qualifying offer has been extended. He's an unrestricted free agent and can go out an sign an offer sheet with another team. Yes, his team can choose to match it but I think it's hard to say that a player is effectively under contract when he's negotiating and signing onto the terms of his next contract with a different team. Players under contract can't say so much as a word to other teams about signing with them or it's tampering.

a player with a QO is more like a rfa , with a 1 year offer to re-sign

he's not really free unless the bulls let him go.

[Hangtime84]

If Niko takes the QO i really don't want him here. He will be dead to me.

[dice]

If Niko takes the QO i really don't want him here. He will be dead to me.

well that's a little weird

all it would mean is that he didn't get an offer he liked. same situation as ben gordon

[dice]

Yes, the standard four-year rookie contract entered into by almost all first-round picks ends with restricted free agency, unless the team doesn't pick up one of the option seasons or doesn't extend the qualifying offer

when the contract actually ends (failure to extend QO or at the end of the 5th year), the player is unrestricted. the player is, in effect, under contract at all times until that point. there is at no point a state of uncontracted limbo like the mirotic situation. that's what prompted my question

No, the player wouldn't be under contract during the free agency period after the fourth year, when the qualifying offer has been extended. He's an unrestricted free agent and can go out an sign an offer sheet with another team. Yes, his team can choose to match it but I think it's hard to say that a player is effectively under contract when he's negotiating and signing onto the terms of his next contract with a different team. Players under contract can't say so much as a word to other teams about signing with them or it's tampering.

isn't the QO a tentative contract that goes into effect if the player doesn't sign an offer sheet with another team (or if the "home" team for some reason decides to unilaterally offer more money)?

[League Circles]

If Niko takes the QO i really don't want him here. He will be dead to me.

huh? why would that be a bad thing?

It's funny how a number of people are playing dumb with regards to the negative aspects of this. It's one thing to disagree that it's a net negative situation. It's another thing to pretend like you can't comprehend the negative aspect.

[League Circles]

when the contract actually ends (failure to extend QO or at the end of the 5th year), the player is unrestricted. the player is, in effect, under contract at all times until that point. there is at no point a state of uncontracted limbo like the mirotic situation. that's what prompted my question

No, the player wouldn't be under contract during the free agency period after the fourth year, when the qualifying offer has been extended. He's an unrestricted free agent and can go out an sign an offer sheet with another team. Yes, his team can choose to match it but I think it's hard to say that a player is effectively under contract when he's negotiating and signing onto the terms of his next contract with a different team. Players under contract can't say so much as a word to other teams about signing with them or it's tampering.

isn't the QO a tentative contract that goes into effect if the player doesn't sign an offer sheet with another team (or if the "home" team for some reason decides to unilaterally offer more money)?

No, it's an offer that the player must accept in order to go into effect.

[sco]

I wish there was a way to stick a quick poll in the middle here - but want to ask folks:

As of Aug 21, which of below best represents your preferred deal with Niko at this moment?

A) $60M/4yr
B) $36M/3yr
C) $27M/3yr
D) Niko Take the QO
E) Bulls withdraw the QO and let him walk
F) A more complex deal with team/Niko options

[dice]

No, the player wouldn't be under contract during the free agency period after the fourth year, when the qualifying offer has been extended. He's an unrestricted free agent and can go out an sign an offer sheet with another team. Yes, his team can choose to match it but I think it's hard to say that a player is effectively under contract when he's negotiating and signing onto the terms of his next contract with a different team. Players under contract can't say so much as a word to other teams about signing with them or it's tampering.

isn't the QO a tentative contract that goes into effect if the player doesn't sign an offer sheet with another team (or if the "home" team for some reason decides to unilaterally offer more money)?

No, it's an offer that the player must accept in order to go into effect.

which, of course, he would if he didn't get another offer

of course the QO is only an offer. thus the 'O' part. but it's effectively a fallback option for the player offered in exchange for the team retaining the restriction on his free agency