OT:50 greatest black athletes of all time

[League Circles]

Biles and Douglas both in the top 10 is impossible to understand on any level.

And Curry is in front of LeBron so people say "why is Curry in front of LeBron?!?!?"

Some have said Biles is the greatest athlete in any sport ever. Some of the things she's done is incomprehensible. She's one of the rarest human beings ever born. I don't know about putting an order into athletes of so many different sports, genders, era's, etc -- but she's a freak.

I'm not familiar with her, and while I'd definitely consider a gymnast an athlete, I don't consider her events to be sports.

[burlydee]

The list is ridiculous, for all the things people pointed out. I also believe its hard to measure the impact of a guy like Pele to an American audience. Its hard for me to rank him given his sport does not leave the mark in the US that things like even track, golf or tennis (not to mention football, basketball and baseball) on the American public.

That said, here is my top 10 based on dominance, cultural impact and a bit of inspiration (although I think that is highly personal. A woman is going to be inspired by Biles way more than a man for example).

1. Ali - he simply the athlete from a cultural aspect that all other American athletes are judged by. If you're an athlete an activist, Ali is the name. He was the biggest athlete in the word in the late 60s. He was ranked no. 2 for dominance, which is ridiculous (should be lower) and #8 for impact on society, which is also ridiculous (easily top 3 if not 1). Overall, he's the greatest.

2. Jordan - Jordan was a dominant player and the most high profile athlete ever. More importantly, he changed sports finance. There would be no Lebron without MJ. Players wouldn't be making tons of money in endorsements, would not have the pop culture impact, would not be in TV or movies, if MJ hadn't broken down those barriers in a major way. He wasn't the 1st guy to do it, but he was the 1st superstar.

3. Jackie Robinson - may be too low. I just think integration in sports was inevitable. Not to say that his talent and grace weren't the reason he was 1st. But it was inevitable (look at Mays). #1 on inspiration.

4. Kareem - when you look at the combination of dominance and cultural important, Kareem stands out. He was as dominant as Ali and was among the first and most vocal black activists in football. One of the greats

5. Serena Williams - Serena Williams is the most dominant women athlete I've ever seen. And I'm not even a big tennis fan.

6. Jesse Owens - He showed up Hitler. Gotta get extra points for that.

7. Joe Louis - Joe louis was probably the most important black athlete in America until Jackie Robinson came along.

8. Jim Brown - Jim Brown was the most dominant running back in the game when the game was dominated by running backs. He would have all the records if he continued playing. Instead he became one of the first athletes to act and do political activism. Not my favorite guy, but deserves to be on the list.

9. Carl Lewis / Jackie Joyner-Kersey - if you watched the olympics between 1984-1992, these were the two Americans who mattered most. Bonus points b/c Carl Lewis sexual orientation was the 1st time I ever saw that addressed by an athelte

10. OJ Simpson - OJ Simpson was the first major black spokesperson for a national brand. He has tons of success in college and pros. And he killed two people and got away with it which changed the way we view athletes, race, media, the justice system, etc. for a generation. He sucks as a person, he gets a zero for inspiration, but his ultimate importance as a sports figure is pretty high. In a lot of ways, he started celebrity/reality tv culture in the US.

[waffle]

I think the whole thing is weird. At least from an American perspective the only *edit* I think that would sniff the top 10 would be Babe Ruth. MAYBE Tom Brady? But probably not. Bruce Jenner? Nah. From my perspective the top 20 is overwhelmingly African American.

Babe Ruth and Tom Brady for sure...

also, all of these could be considered top 20... For sure top 50.

Roger Federer, Larry Bird, Jerry West, Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Gordie Howe (you could probably put another 3 or 4 hockey players at least), John Elway, Joe Montana, Dick Butkus, Jack Nicklaus, Roger Federer, Ben Hogan, Billie Jean King (top ten for sure), Martina Navratilova, Michael Phelps, Shaun White, Mark Spitz, Payton Manning, Messi, Micky Mantle, Arnold Palmer,

More in just baseball alone. Joe DiMaggio, Stan Musial, Lou Gehrig, Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker, plus a whole slew of pitchers.

Yeah, my own top 50 list would be heavily non-white, but it would certainly contain more than 2.

I did say top 10....Yes, the top 50 would be more diverse but still would lean very heavily African American. Note, I am a member of the Euro-tribe. My point is I think this list is STUPID. Wait, make that insulting.

[Lauri_Legend]

Curry over Lebron? Lost all credibility.

[JimmyJammer]

This is obviously biased towards American sports, because we can make a strong argument that Pelé should be number one on the list.

[JimmyJammer]

Watch on YouTube

And, I'll put Ronaldinho up there as well.

[TheSchmaranz]

Why the hell isn't Marcus Fizer on the list? He changed me, man!

[JimmyJammer]

Watch on YouTube

NBA all-stars paying respect to one of the greatest athletes and performers in the history of sports.

[Ben]

The list is ridiculous, for all the things people pointed out. I also believe its hard to measure the impact of a guy like Pele to an American audience. Its hard for me to rank him given his sport does not leave the mark in the US that things like even track, golf or tennis (not to mention football, basketball and baseball) on the American public.

That said, here is my top 10 based on dominance, cultural impact and a bit of inspiration (although I think that is highly personal. A woman is going to be inspired by Biles way more than a man for example).

1. Ali - he simply the athlete from a cultural aspect that all other American athletes are judged by. If you're an athlete an activist, Ali is the name. He was the biggest athlete in the word in the late 60s. He was ranked no. 2 for dominance, which is ridiculous (should be lower) and #8 for impact on society, which is also ridiculous (easily top 3 if not 1). Overall, he's the greatest.

2. Jordan - Jordan was a dominant player and the most high profile athlete ever. More importantly, he changed sports finance. There would be no Lebron without MJ. Players wouldn't be making tons of money in endorsements, would not have the pop culture impact, would not be in TV or movies, if MJ hadn't broken down those barriers in a major way. He wasn't the 1st guy to do it, but he was the 1st superstar.

3. Jackie Robinson - may be too low. I just think integration in sports was inevitable. Not to say that his talent and grace weren't the reason he was 1st. But it was inevitable (look at Mays). #1 on inspiration.

4. Kareem - when you look at the combination of dominance and cultural important, Kareem stands out. He was as dominant as Ali and was among the first and most vocal black activists in football. One of the greats

5. Serena Williams - Serena Williams is the most dominant women athlete I've ever seen. And I'm not even a big tennis fan.

6. Jesse Owens - He showed up Hitler. Gotta get extra points for that.

7. Joe Louis - Joe louis was probably the most important black athlete in America until Jackie Robinson came along.

8. Jim Brown - Jim Brown was the most dominant running back in the game when the game was dominated by running backs. He would have all the records if he continued playing. Instead he became one of the first athletes to act and do political activism. Not my favorite guy, but deserves to be on the list.

9. Carl Lewis / Jackie Joyner-Kersey - if you watched the olympics between 1984-1992, these were the two Americans who mattered most. Bonus points b/c Carl Lewis sexual orientation was the 1st time I ever saw that addressed by an athelte

10. OJ Simpson - OJ Simpson was the first major black spokesperson for a national brand. He has tons of success in college and pros. And he killed two people and got away with it which changed the way we view athletes, race, media, the justice system, etc. for a generation. He sucks as a person, he gets a zero for inspiration, but his ultimate importance as a sports figure is pretty high. In a lot of ways, he started celebrity/reality tv culture in the US.

Excellent list and reasoning, IMO.

[Leslie Forman]

Reading the article, it seems as if it's just based on a surveymonkey poll of about 10K people. But it also seems as if they presented people with a list of 200 athletes to rank, and then pared it to 50. I wonder whether they even included guys like Jack Johnson. If they did, then most people probably didn't know who he was. I also wonder whether they included OJ Simpson, Mike Tyson, and Barry Bonds, and the people rated them very low, or whether they just didn't include those names among the 200 for reasons of their own. I can't find an explanation.

Not only was Jack Johnson nowhere to be found, Tommie Smith wasn't either.

Hell for "societal impact," I'd say Colin Kaepernick is already far ahead of the majority of that list. If they were being honest, Allen Iverson would be waaaaaaaay up there too.

[waffle]

AI? Massively underrated

[Ben]

Reading the article, it seems as if it's just based on a surveymonkey poll of about 10K people. But it also seems as if they presented people with a list of 200 athletes to rank, and then pared it to 50. I wonder whether they even included guys like Jack Johnson. If they did, then most people probably didn't know who he was. I also wonder whether they included OJ Simpson, Mike Tyson, and Barry Bonds, and the people rated them very low, or whether they just didn't include those names among the 200 for reasons of their own. I can't find an explanation.

Not only was Jack Johnson nowhere to be found, Tommie Smith wasn't either.

Hell for "societal impact," I'd say Colin Kaepernick is already far ahead of the majority of that list. If they were being honest, Allen Iverson would be waaaaaaaay up there too.

True. I hadn't thought of Tommie Smith. I don't ordinarily consider him dominant in the fashion of Jack Johnson or Mike Tyson, but he did set a bunch of world records in his day (even leaving 1968 aside). Interesting point.

Kaepernick, though, definitely loses out in the dominance category. AI is better in that regard. But not family-friendly in the way that that list seems to present. It's a sparkly group.

[RedBulls23]

No Bob Gibson?

What a joke.

Jerry Rice ahead of Walter Payton and Jim Brown? lol

and yes, Pele should be top 5 at least.

If you're going to have Steph Curry on the list but leave Tiger Woods off because "he isn't Black enough" is a joke too. Tiger has more Black genes than Steph (and Roberto Clemente was only 1/4 Black). Derek Jeter is more Irish than Black. Tiger changed golf forever and he's black. Societal impact? yeah.

The whole list is bonkers. Just seems like a bunch of names put together, not really meant to be in order, or done by people who don't really understand impact on society.

[johnnyvann840]

Just the fact that Lawrence Taylor is not on the list tells you just how sparkly. ^^

OTOH, how is Isiah Thomas on that list, then? His transgressions in NYC were worse than anything a lot of people left off the list have done. Sexual harassment and discrimination. Accused and found guilty. Some of the things that came out in that trial. People just seem to forget what he and Dolan did to that woman (women). I mean, the guy still has a job in broadcasting, despite this somehow.... and he's terrible at it, to boot.

[johnnyvann840]

The list is ridiculous, for all the things people pointed out. I also believe its hard to measure the impact of a guy like Pele to an American audience. Its hard for me to rank him given his sport does not leave the mark in the US that things like even track, golf or tennis (not to mention football, basketball and baseball) on the American public.

That said, here is my top 10 based on dominance, cultural impact and a bit of inspiration (although I think that is highly personal. A woman is going to be inspired by Biles way more than a man for example).

1. Ali - he simply the athlete from a cultural aspect that all other American athletes are judged by. If you're an athlete an activist, Ali is the name. He was the biggest athlete in the word in the late 60s. He was ranked no. 2 for dominance, which is ridiculous (should be lower) and #8 for impact on society, which is also ridiculous (easily top 3 if not 1). Overall, he's the greatest.

2. Jordan - Jordan was a dominant player and the most high profile athlete ever. More importantly, he changed sports finance. There would be no Lebron without MJ. Players wouldn't be making tons of money in endorsements, would not have the pop culture impact, would not be in TV or movies, if MJ hadn't broken down those barriers in a major way. He wasn't the 1st guy to do it, but he was the 1st superstar.

3. Jackie Robinson - may be too low. I just think integration in sports was inevitable. Not to say that his talent and grace weren't the reason he was 1st. But it was inevitable (look at Mays). #1 on inspiration.

4. Kareem - when you look at the combination of dominance and cultural important, Kareem stands out. He was as dominant as Ali and was among the first and most vocal black activists in football. One of the greats

5. Serena Williams - Serena Williams is the most dominant women athlete I've ever seen. And I'm not even a big tennis fan.

6. Jesse Owens - He showed up Hitler. Gotta get extra points for that.

7. Joe Louis - Joe louis was probably the most important black athlete in America until Jackie Robinson came along.

8. Jim Brown - Jim Brown was the most dominant running back in the game when the game was dominated by running backs. He would have all the records if he continued playing. Instead he became one of the first athletes to act and do political activism. Not my favorite guy, but deserves to be on the list.

9. Carl Lewis / Jackie Joyner-Kersey - if you watched the olympics between 1984-1992, these were the two Americans who mattered most. Bonus points b/c Carl Lewis sexual orientation was the 1st time I ever saw that addressed by an athelte

10. OJ Simpson - OJ Simpson was the first major black spokesperson for a national brand. He has tons of success in college and pros. And he killed two people and got away with it which changed the way we view athletes, race, media, the justice system, etc. for a generation. He sucks as a person, he gets a zero for inspiration, but his ultimate importance as a sports figure is pretty high. In a lot of ways, he started celebrity/reality tv culture in the US.

Excellent list and reasoning, IMO.

Agree, except I would replace Carl Lewis and Joyner-Kersey with Arthur Ashe. For several reasons.

[musiqsoulchild]

I'm a huge MJ fan...that being said I believe it to be silly to not put Jackie Robinson at number 1. How in the world can you not??

Precisely because it's the "world".

Baseball is a small part of world sport. Boxing and Soccer have a lot more reach and appeal. Ditto with Basketball.....especially post - MJ.

[musiqsoulchild]

AI? Massively underrated

Great, great call out!

[JimmyJammer]

They might as well call it, the greatest black athletes in American sports. To me, this has to be evaluated on a global scale and not on a national scale. On a global scale, there is no sport that comes even close to the popularity of soccer. The NFL players should not even be put in there, because this sport is not played anywhere else in the world. Pelé is number one, followed by Muhammed Ali, Jordan, Tiger Woods, Serena Williams, Usain Bolt, Ronaldo(Brazil), Simone Biles, Kareem Abdul Jabar, Jackie Joyner.

[McBulls]

Pele'
Ali
Owens
Jordan
Joe Lewis

Any list that leaves them out of the top 10 doesn't have a world view. OK, maybe Pele' isn't black, idk.

[RastaBull]

They also have a top 50 ranking for each individual criterion (DOMINANCE | IMPACT ON SOCIETY | INSPIRATION)

Top 10 INSPIRATION

1. J. Robinson
2. Willie Mays
3. Jesse Owens
4. MJ
5. Ali
6. Gabby Douglas
7. Hank Aaron
8. Gale Sayers
9. Simone Biles
10. Walter Payton

Top 10 IMPACT ON SOCIETY

1. J. Robinson
2. Willie Mays
3. Hank Aaron
4. MJ
5. Jesse Owens
6. Simone Biles
7. Gabby Douglas
8. Ali
9. Walter Payton
10. Gales Sayers

Top 10 DOMINANCE

1. MJ
2. Ali
3. Serena Williams
4. Usain Bolt
5. Hank Aaron
6. Willie Mays
7. Jerry Rice
8. Lebron James
9. Jessy Owens
10. Shaq

Thanks, I was wanting to see a list laid out for that.

This is absolutely not just a list of the most dominant African American athletes, it seems a lot of initial posters are confusing that. No, there is not an actual "moral turpitude" clause, but for all intents and purposes when 66% of the ranking is based on "inspiration" and "impact on society"... then yeah, your not going to crack the list when you have been marked as a disgrace to the game or in a larger cultural context. Not to say everyone on the list is squeaky clean, but this is a public opinion poll so the way media relayed or highlighted certain legacies obviously effects some otherwise " dominant" players. Ie, I see no way the likes of Mike Tyson or OJ Simpson should be on this list with legacies involving gross brutality towards women.

Which brings me to my next point, the misogynistic male ego of sports viewership. It's not been as focused on here as much, but I've seen lots of comments elsewhere about Gabby Douglas and Simone Biles. Again, 66% of this rank is "inspiration" and "impact on society". Remember, about half the population of young African Americans are female!!! Gabby and Simone are the FIRST African American women to achieve the highest honors in their sport (which is a pretty freaking major sport in the global landscape for the last century and more)!!!! As a public opinion poll, some rankings are skewed by " the more recent" and maybe Gabby and Simone are a bit higher because of that ... but come on, they represent an achievement across both RACE and SEX that was unheard of .... IN 2012 / 2016!!!!! Imagine an African American winning the batting title for the first time in 2016 or if KD was the first to win the scoring title or MVP. It's a ridiculous thought but it is a reality for young black women for generations past AND present.

And the scrutiny Gabby endured as she did all of this about her hair as a black woman, and the dignity with which she handled and rose above it. When you see the breakdown of the lists above, I see no qualms with Gabby and Simone being ranked so high on "Inspiration" ... and on "Impact on Society" (hopefully time will tell that there achievements signified change in their sport and sports at large for young black women).

All that said, my top 5 is some mix of Ali, Serena, MJ, Jackie, and either Hank or Jessie. So there top 5 is pretty spot on imo ... I'd just move Serena up from 6th and I'd put Hank just ahead of Mays.

My disagreements mainly are with Shaq being the third basketball player on the list. IMO, there is no way he is above both Dr J and Bill Russell. Gale Sayers got good recognition at 20, but I could feasibly move him up a couple spots from even there ... short career I know, but absolutely dominant in college and before injuries, and then his impact on society was expanded greatly with his portrayal in Brian's Song during a very important time in American society (some might not be willing to rate movie portrayals as much). I'd also move James Brown up ... total dominance (although a shorter career compared to contemporary players), keeping focused on the field at an extremely tense time in American race relations, and then simultaneously finding a space of the field to be a vocal leader and be a force in both the Pan-African and Black Power movements.

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