RealGM

Howdi all, it has been a while since I posted a thread. I did a quick search going back 2 months and did not see any LaVine extension threads. Since the date for his rookie extension is looming there have been some articles on the risks involved in extending Zach, especially with the higher CAP numbers that have been announced. I have seen some comments about extension but there is not a concrete thread for this topic so here we are. In thinking about this and the past history the FO has had with DRose and ACL issues do you think?

1. They bite the bullet and give LaVine his 100% rookie scale exstension which would be 30% of the CAP next year for the full 5 years? I am using the base 5YR/146.5M total as an example because next season's total adjusted numbers will be sure to be different.

2. They try to structure some guarentee protection in the contract much like Philadelphia did with Joel Embiid? They can recoup some of the money if Levine suffers a catastrophic injury that is ACL specific. These are the numbers that the 76's can recover from Embiid's contract which is quite complex.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20985023/joel-embiid-extension-protects-philadelphia-76ers-case-contractually-specific-catastrophic-injury

For example, if Embiid hypothetically suffered a serious knee or wrist injury -- something outside the contractual language surrounding the feet and back -- the 76ers would have no avenue to waive Embiid to reclaim any portion of his salary. And given Embiid's rare talent, there's a belief that he'd have to suffer a career-ending injury to inspire the 76ers to release him.

If Embiid met that narrow criteria and the Sixers decided to waive him after the 2018-19 season, he would receive $84.2 million of his full contract; after the 2019-20 season, $98.2 million; after the 2020-21 season, $113.3 million; and after the 2021-22 season, $129.4 million.

3. They let LaVine become an RFA and match the total on an offer sheet which I think limits the contract to 4 years.

Thoughts?

first thing to do is to spell his name correctly

SimonFish wrote:first thing to do is to spell his name correctly

FIFY

I didn't see that about Embiid contract. I love that carve-out! It would be worth a ton to me to have that protection feature for a catastrophic knee injury.

Don't let the Embiid contract warp your thinking. LaVine tore his ACL, but it doesn't necessarily make him the injury risk Embiid is. I really doubt that LaVine would take a contract like that.

Red Larrivee wrote:Don't let the Embiid contract warp your thinking. LaVine tore his ACL, but it doesn't necessarily make him the injury risk Embiid is. I really doubt that LaVine would take a contract like that.

This. Embiid already has a relatively long history of injuries, and the fact that he's 270-280lbs while doing the things that he does athletically isn't helping. Puts a ton of stress on his body.

Let him go. I think it's a bad move to hand a max contract to a below average starter just because he's young. He's yet to show he's a player who won't harm you on the court combined with the ACL doesn't make him worth the risk despite the scoring upside (which needs to be supplemented with free throws to really be useful). I'll change my tune if he becomes efficient by shooting foul shots. I'm less confident in his ability to become average at defense given the injury.

But obviously if the Bulls felt the same they wouldn't have traded for him.

I don't mind the RFA route, the value of time to see if he can be what he was offensively and see if there is any defensive improvement is very high - coupled with time to see his durability is even higher.

chrispatrick wrote:Let him go. I think it's a bad move to hand a max contract to a below average starter just because he's young. He's yet to show he's a player who won't harm you on the court combined with the ACL doesn't make him worth the risk despite the scoring upside (which needs to be supplemented with free throws to really be useful). I'll change my tune if he becomes efficient by shooting foul shots. I'm less confident in his ability to become average at defense given the injury.

But obviously if the Bulls felt the same they wouldn't have traded for him.

I think it would be a better idea to sign him and then trade him later to recoup some assets if he doesn't become a really good player. He'll always be a good offensive player so he'll always hold some value. If you just let him go, then you're really delaying the rebuild.

Don't worry about it till next off season.

chrispatrick wrote:Let him go. I think it's a bad move to hand a max contract to a below average starter just because he's young. He's yet to show he's a player who won't harm you on the court combined with the ACL doesn't make him worth the risk despite the scoring upside (which needs to be supplemented with free throws to really be useful). I'll change my tune if he becomes efficient by shooting foul shots. I'm less confident in his ability to become average at defense given the injury.

But obviously if the Bulls felt the same they wouldn't have traded for him.

Letting him walk for nothing when he was a piece you traded Jimmy Butler for is a bad idea.

Also, this is modern NBA, where players off their rookie contracts are paid based on their potential. That's just the reality of it.

As for his scoring, he doesn't need to get to the FT line that much more and I think it's been overstated. Maybe 1 trip extra a game considering how good of a 3 point shooter he is. He's already an efficient scorer.

Now I certainly would see how this season plays out, and then let him sign an offer sheet instead of giving him the max right off the bat.

It makes sense to offer Zach an extension at some figure below his max. I'm not sure what that number should be. I think it's unlikely he'd accept but there is little harm in trying. I guess he might get offended but he could also get offended if they refuse to discuss an extension with him at all.

MalagaBulls wrote:Howdi all, it has been a while since I posted a thread. I did a quick search going back 2 months and did not see any LaVine extension threads. Since the date for his rookie extension is looming there have been some articles on the risks involved in extending Zach, especially with the higher CAP numbers that have been announced. I have seen some comments about extension but there is not a concrete thread for this topic so here we are. In thinking about this and the past history the FO has had with DRose and ACL issues do you think?

1. They bite the bullet and give LaVine his 100% rookie scale exstension which would be 30% of the CAP next year for the full 5 years? I am using the base 5YR/146.5M total as an example because next season's total adjusted numbers will be sure to be different.

2. They try to structure some guarentee protection in the contract much like Philadelphia did with Joel Embiid? They can recoup some of the money if Levine suffers a catastrophic injury that is ACL specific. These are the numbers that the 76's can recover from Embiid's contract which is quite complex.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20985023/joel-embiid-extension-protects-philadelphia-76ers-case-contractually-specific-catastrophic-injury

For example, if Embiid hypothetically suffered a serious knee or wrist injury -- something outside the contractual language surrounding the feet and back -- the 76ers would have no avenue to waive Embiid to reclaim any portion of his salary. And given Embiid's rare talent, there's a belief that he'd have to suffer a career-ending injury to inspire the 76ers to release him.

If Embiid met that narrow criteria and the Sixers decided to waive him after the 2018-19 season, he would receive $84.2 million of his full contract; after the 2019-20 season, $98.2 million; after the 2020-21 season, $113.3 million; and after the 2021-22 season, $129.4 million.

3. They let LaVine become an RFA and match the total on an offer sheet which I think limits the contract to 4 years.

Thoughts?

#2. It doesn't need to be to the extent of Embiid's contract because LaVine is far less likely to be reinjured in the future than Embiid. But some sort of minor guarantee protection for the ACL would be prudent and fair. We'd have to give him more guaranteed than the 76ers gave Embiid, but I think it's the right choice.

The guy has yet to dribble a single basketball in a game for the Chicago Bulls. There is no way to know what a reasonable offer would be, or whether or not you want him back, until he has played.

If he makes a standard, expected improvement based on his trajectory to date he will likely be a near max value. But again...all of that is yet to be seen.

Last thing to do would be to extend him now.

Preferably, he comes back and plays well enough so that he can be dealt for a quality draft pick.

If the FO won't trade him, the next best alternative would be to go the RFA route.

RedBulls23 wrote:Don't worry about it till next off season.

This is a valid option if you are willing to let him get an offer sheet and will match it no matter what. I have seen a couple of articles about how the next couple of off seasons will be nuclear because FO's won't spend more than this past 2 years. I can't see that happening because we will always have a CAP floor and we will be really healthy with a ton of CAP space.

FYI That type of contract is kinda irrelevant for Levine bc it doesnt cover 'what if he just sucks after the knee'. W/ Embid he has the real threat of not just beng bad but career ending.

Ie if the Wizards had all the protections in the world they still would have to pay Gilbert Arenas bc his career didnt end...he was just not the player he once was.

Stratmaster wrote:The guy has yet to dribble a single basketball in a game for the Chicago Bulls. There is no way to know what a reasonable offer would be, or whether or not you want him back, until he has played.

If he makes a standard, expected improvement based on his trajectory to date he will likely be a near max value. But again...all of that is yet to be seen.

Start, very reasonable but my point was that the rookie extension deadline for LaVine is the 15th.

MalagaBulls wrote:

RedBulls23 wrote:Don't worry about it till next off season.

This is a valid option if you are willing to let him get an offer sheet and will match it no matter what. I have seen a couple of articles about how the next couple of off seasons will be nuclear because FO's won't spend more than this past 2 years. I can't see that happening because we will always have a CAP floor and we will be really healthy with a ton of CAP space.

The FO generally operates that way. Let said player get an offer sheet, and then consider matching or not. Reality is, Lavine isn't going to take.less money than the max and I'll be surprised if a team doesn't offer it to him. Unless he looks like crap this season.

MalagaBulls wrote:

Stratmaster wrote:The guy has yet to dribble a single basketball in a game for the Chicago Bulls. There is no way to know what a reasonable offer would be, or whether or not you want him back, until he has played.

If he makes a standard, expected improvement based on his trajectory to date he will likely be a near max value. But again...all of that is yet to be seen.

Start, very reasonable but my point was that the rookie extension deadline for LaVine is the 15th.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. You wait. #3