Bulls claim Kay Felder off waivers

[rowseyna]

I see the hops and the "fearlessness of taking shots", but I still don't see much by way of speed or quickness. For the most part, even bigs were able to stay in front of him. He doesn't show me the ability to get a step on his defender in the half-court.

Fair enough. I'd say he has the leaping ability advantage on IT, but I agree that he doesn't have the first step in the HC that IT has. His speed/quicks/first step kind of remind me of Phil Pressey but a little bit better (and obviously he's much more explosive and fearless than Pressey ever was). I don't know if he'll be IT, but I think a Nate-Rob-level career is definitely attainable for this kid. The only real knock is the height. Even if his first-step isn't elite, there's simply no denying that he's crazy quick. Like, maybe the quickest guy on the Bulls already. He's crazy athletic, very strong, a great shooter, has elite handles (keeps the ball on a string), and is an outstanding passer. If he can just continue to improve his defense, he's going to be a player.

[DASMACKDOWN]

They finally added Blakeney, Ryan and Felder to the Bulls in NBA 2k18 We ready!

[MGB8]

The Hawks have Schroeder, a solid, if mediocre Bazemore, a promising combo forward in Prince, a solid defensive center in Dedmond, a young prospect in Collins who some liked more than LM, and few solid vets in Illyasova, Bellinelli (a career reserve, but still), and Plumlee.

The Bulls? The most established player is RoLo. Holiday is a career backup who would be a rotation player on a good team - maybe talented enough to be a 5th best starter. LaVine is injured and will be rusty. Dunn is hurt and coming off a poor rookie year, with a lot to work on before anyone thinks he's a legit NBA starter. Niko is a madly overpaid inconsistent reserve. Portis is an inconsistent reserve on a rookie deal who, at least right now, doesn't look like he has built off of last year's progress. Markannen has talent but will need to battle for playing time, and is still a rookie, regardless. Grant is a rotation type player whose ceiling looks a lot like Etwan Moore. Valentine's another rotation player.

So, basically, a team with one legit starter (RoLo) unless LaVine comes back fully healthy and/or others take major steps up.

The Bulls are THE WORST TEAM in the NBA. They might end up with the 2nd or 3rd worst record just out of luck or effort or whatnot... but it won't be due to talent.

I don't care how you try to word it to make it sound bad, the Bulls are in no way shape or form worse than Atlanta...

Coach: Atlanta-Bud vs. Chicago-Hoiberg - edge - Atlanta

PG: ATL - Schroeder (just turned 24, last season 18/6 in under 32mpg on .45/.34, TS .53) vs. CHI- Dunn/J.Grant

Edge - ATL, big time

SG: ATL - Bazemore v. CHI - J.Holiday

Edge - being generous to the Bulls, we'll call it a draw - but in reality there is a reason Bazemore got a nice deal, and Holiday was kind of an afterthought.

SF: ATL - T.Prince v. CHI - P.Zipser

Edge - ATL

PF: ATL - Ilysasova/Collins vs. CHI - Niko/Portis/Markannen

Edge: draw... some might argue edge to the Bulls... but at the end of the day Niko and Portis have proven nothing more than Ilyasova has, and Markannen and Collins are both rookies. Through everyone in since it is hard to tell who is starting at this point / playing more for either team at this point (well, Niko and Ilyasova will start, but unsettled).

CC: ATL - Dedmond vs. CHI - Rolo

Edge - Chicago

Depth - ATL - Bellineli, Plumlee, ??? vs. CHI - Felicio, Valentine, Felder, ???

Edge - being generous to CHI, edge Chicago (lots of folks would call it a draw).


IF (a big IF) LaVine comes back without rust from his injury, then the Bulls are arguably more talented - but only by a bit. And the Bulls could also be more talented with big improvements from Dunn or one of the PFs, etc. - but hard to count on that.

Until then, Atlanta has the edge in both coaching and talent of the starters / primary rotation players. Just hard reality.

[sco]

The Hawks have Schroeder, a solid, if mediocre Bazemore, a promising combo forward in Prince, a solid defensive center in Dedmond, a young prospect in Collins who some liked more than LM, and few solid vets in Illyasova, Bellinelli (a career reserve, but still), and Plumlee.

The Bulls? The most established player is RoLo. Holiday is a career backup who would be a rotation player on a good team - maybe talented enough to be a 5th best starter. LaVine is injured and will be rusty. Dunn is hurt and coming off a poor rookie year, with a lot to work on before anyone thinks he's a legit NBA starter. Niko is a madly overpaid inconsistent reserve. Portis is an inconsistent reserve on a rookie deal who, at least right now, doesn't look like he has built off of last year's progress. Markannen has talent but will need to battle for playing time, and is still a rookie, regardless. Grant is a rotation type player whose ceiling looks a lot like Etwan Moore. Valentine's another rotation player.

So, basically, a team with one legit starter (RoLo) unless LaVine comes back fully healthy and/or others take major steps up.

The Bulls are THE WORST TEAM in the NBA. They might end up with the 2nd or 3rd worst record just out of luck or effort or whatnot... but it won't be due to talent.

I don't care how you try to word it to make it sound bad, the Bulls are in no way shape or form worse than Atlanta...

Coach: Atlanta-Bud vs. Chicago-Hoiberg - edge - Atlanta

PG: ATL - Schroeder (just turned 24, last season 18/6 in under 32mpg on .45/.34, TS .53) vs. CHI- Dunn/J.Grant

Edge - ATL, big time

SG: ATL - Bazemore v. CHI - J.Holiday

Edge - being generous to the Bulls, we'll call it a draw - but in reality there is a reason Bazemore got a nice deal, and Holiday was kind of an afterthought.

SF: ATL - T.Prince v. CHI - P.Zipser

Edge - ATL

PF: ATL - Ilysasova/Collins vs. CHI - Niko/Portis/Markannen

Edge: draw... some might argue edge to the Bulls... but at the end of the day Niko and Portis have proven nothing more than Ilyasova has, and Markannen and Collins are both rookies. Through everyone in since it is hard to tell who is starting at this point / playing more for either team at this point (well, Niko and Ilyasova will start, but unsettled).

CC: ATL - Dedmond vs. CHI - Rolo

Edge - Chicago

Depth - ATL - Bellineli, Plumlee, ??? vs. CHI - Felicio, Valentine, Felder, ???

Edge - being generous to CHI, edge Chicago (lots of folks would call it a draw).


IF (a big IF) LaVine comes back without rust from his injury, then the Bulls are arguably more talented - but only by a bit. And the Bulls could also be more talented with big improvements from Dunn or one of the PFs, etc. - but hard to count on that.

Until then, Atlanta has the edge in both coaching and talent of the starters / primary rotation players. Just hard reality.

Atlanta's bench >>> Chicago bench, but if good/healthy Lavine tips the scale our way and more so because Holiday can be SF.

That said, the Knicks are gonna give us a run for the money. KP will need to step forward, but they are by far the worst defensive team.

[MC3]

We just need to be top 3 worst teams in league. We dont need to be literally worst one, but only one of them.

[weneeda2guard]

The Hawks have Schroeder, a solid, if mediocre Bazemore, a promising combo forward in Prince, a solid defensive center in Dedmond, a young prospect in Collins who some liked more than LM, and few solid vets in Illyasova, Bellinelli (a career reserve, but still), and Plumlee.

The Bulls? The most established player is RoLo. Holiday is a career backup who would be a rotation player on a good team - maybe talented enough to be a 5th best starter. LaVine is injured and will be rusty. Dunn is hurt and coming off a poor rookie year, with a lot to work on before anyone thinks he's a legit NBA starter. Niko is a madly overpaid inconsistent reserve. Portis is an inconsistent reserve on a rookie deal who, at least right now, doesn't look like he has built off of last year's progress. Markannen has talent but will need to battle for playing time, and is still a rookie, regardless. Grant is a rotation type player whose ceiling looks a lot like Etwan Moore. Valentine's another rotation player.

So, basically, a team with one legit starter (RoLo) unless LaVine comes back fully healthy and/or others take major steps up.

The Bulls are THE WORST TEAM in the NBA. They might end up with the 2nd or 3rd worst record just out of luck or effort or whatnot... but it won't be due to talent.

I don't care how you try to word it to make it sound bad, the Bulls are in no way shape or form worse than Atlanta...

Coach: Atlanta-Bud vs. Chicago-Hoiberg - edge - Atlanta

PG: ATL - Schroeder (just turned 24, last season 18/6 in under 32mpg on .45/.34, TS .53) vs. CHI- Dunn/J.Grant

Edge - ATL, big time

SG: ATL - Bazemore v. CHI - J.Holiday

Edge - being generous to the Bulls, we'll call it a draw - but in reality there is a reason Bazemore got a nice deal, and Holiday was kind of an afterthought.

SF: ATL - T.Prince v. CHI - P.Zipser

Edge - ATL

PF: ATL - Ilysasova/Collins vs. CHI - Niko/Portis/Markannen

Edge: draw... some might argue edge to the Bulls... but at the end of the day Niko and Portis have proven nothing more than Ilyasova has, and Markannen and Collins are both rookies. Through everyone in since it is hard to tell who is starting at this point / playing more for either team at this point (well, Niko and Ilyasova will start, but unsettled).

CC: ATL - Dedmond vs. CHI - Rolo

Edge - Chicago

Depth - ATL - Bellineli, Plumlee, ??? vs. CHI - Felicio, Valentine, Felder, ???

Edge - being generous to CHI, edge Chicago (lots of folks would call it a draw).


IF (a big IF) LaVine comes back without rust from his injury, then the Bulls are arguably more talented - but only by a bit. And the Bulls could also be more talented with big improvements from Dunn or one of the PFs, etc. - but hard to count on that.

Until then, Atlanta has the edge in both coaching and talent of the starters / primary rotation players. Just hard reality.

Your making a lot of assessment based on names on paper.

What you have to look at is the fact the bulls hoisted a ton of 3s in the pre season and shot pretty well from there. I think they finished top 5 as well. They also played with a ton of effort on both ends of the floor, and this is while the entire preseason was them playing either legit playoff teams, or fringe playoff teams. They haven't even played the pure scrubs of the league. The issue is not when they are playing the raptors, cavs, spurs, celtics, the issue comes when they are playing the magic, hawks, knicks, phoenix, detroit, kings, etc BUT those teams have pretty much quit on the season and we still playing with effort. A guy who can score in bunches with a green light is not what you need if you are hoping for the absolute worst record. That can equal wins especially in the time of the year when all those other teams would have def quit in march and april.

[GimmeDat]

I see the hops and the "fearlessness of taking shots", but I still don't see much by way of speed or quickness. For the most part, even bigs were able to stay in front of him. He doesn't show me the ability to get a step on his defender in the half-court.

Fair enough. I'd say he has the leaping ability advantage on IT, but I agree that he doesn't have the first step in the HC that IT has. His speed/quicks/first step kind of remind me of Phil Pressey but a little bit better (and obviously he's much more explosive and fearless than Pressey ever was). I don't know if he'll be IT, but I think a Nate-Rob-level career is definitely attainable for this kid. The only real knock is the height. Even if his first-step isn't elite, there's simply no denying that he's crazy quick. Like, maybe the quickest guy on the Bulls already. He's crazy athletic, very strong, a great shooter, has elite handles (keeps the ball on a string), and is an outstanding passer. If he can just continue to improve his defense, he's going to be a player.

From what I've seen, both his first step and overall speed are both nuts, like every bit as good as IT 'good'. That's from all the highlight videos, maybe full games would reveal the half court issues sco was suggesting, but I'd be surprised.

[rtblues]

Watch on YouTube

[sco]

I wonder, with Niko's injury and Felder added, if we (even) can cut Ryan to sign another big. Or better yet, cut Payne.

[Costa78]

I like this pickup. Seems like he could push our PGs. What I like about him is that even though he can score, he is still a good distributor of the ball and plays under control

[Evil_Headband]

Although the box score doesn't show it, he played reasonably well. Certainly an exciting player. With Dunn coming back soon though, it will be interesting to see if Felder can earn spot in the rotation. I think I'd like to see Felder back up Dunn at PG and move Grant into the SG mix.

[MarkDeeks]

Eh, he didn't really do well. He just looked busy doing it.

[Habs72]

Eh, he didn't really do well. He just looked busy doing it.

Eh, he REALLY did better than Grant and he has been in the team two freaking days before the game whereas Grant has been in the team one full season.

[MarkDeeks]

That doesn't mean he did well. He was chirpy, lively, vibrant, moved around a lot. He also routinely found trouble and cannot drive right. He's worth having to see if he can become a bench sparkplug, but he offers little.

[sco]

I really like him as a 3rd PG. My problem is that we need and 1st and 2nd PG. Grant hasn't impressed me much and Dunn has shown about 20 good minutes of PG play...fortunately they were his last 20 minutes.

[GimmeDat]

Fwiw, Felder didn't necessarily have a great game - 6 assists but 4 TO's, and 2-9 from the FG, it was far from good. However, I think we saw glimpses of his ability, and it spurred me on to tangent on what I think he can be for us this season.

One interesting thing I saw while going through Felder's DX reports -

What separates Felder from most undersized small-conference gunners is his ability to create for others, in addition to his prolific scoring repertoire. His 47% assist percentage ranks second in the country only behind Kris Dunn, and he only turns the ball over on a minuscule 13.6% of his possessions to complement that. He is both a willing and creative passer who doesn't hesitate to move the ball ahead in transition, and can also execute plays nicely in the half-court. He'll often dish off bounce passes in impressive fashion on the move for easy baskets, and will regularly punish defenses for keying in too heavily on his scoring ability.

Two best assist %'s in the 2016 draft belonged to Felder and Dunn. Interesting. Which lead me to Dunn's reports -

Dunn's other main area of concern is his propensity to turn the ball over. The optimist would say he lowered his turnovers from 4.8 turnovers per 40 minutes, pace adjusted, to 4.2. The pessimist would say that's still the worst number, by far, of any point guard projected to be drafted in our latest mock draft. The reasons for Dunn's turnovers are varied, from wild forays to the hoop, to an at-times loose dribble ripe for being stripped, to flat out poor decision making.

We can definitely see how that was an issue - he's a bit loose with his moves, so he's not on the same level as a facilitator, but what's made clear in the scouting is that his athletic ability to beat defenders was able to create a lot of passing opportunities. He's not beating guys in the NBA, and as a result he's gone from a 'high assist guy that can be careless/sloppy' to 'a low assist guy that is careless/sloppy'. Hopefully he tightens up the TO's over time but he needs to start beating guys to open up both his scoring and passing game.

In college, it was noted that 25% of Dunn's offense was in transition. I want to see him push that ball and be disruptive on D. It's another area that should open up his game. Thibs was fairly low tempo last year if I'm correct, hopefully Fred's 'modern offensive philosophy' plays to Dunns strengths.

Just a couple of tidbits on a couple of our PG's.

[GimmeDat]

That doesn't mean he did well. He was chirpy, lively, vibrant, moved around a lot. He also routinely found trouble and cannot drive right. He's worth having to see if he can become a bench sparkplug, but he offers little.

The end outcome wasn't pretty (6 and 6 with 4 TO's and 2/9 shooting) but I think we saw glimpses of the tools he can bring to the table, and especially just coming here the other day, I'm not going to judge his first game too harshly. He's also a 2nd year guy who barely got burn his rookie season.

He's not without fault but I think he's a great facilitator whose willingly looking for guys, and can create at will to get shots for himself or others. His scoring could do with a bit of refinement but is worlds ahead of guys like Grant and Dunn.

[sco]

I didn't see what type of defensive effort he put in, but my hope is that he can become a JJ Barrea type.

[rowseyna]

Eh, he didn't really do well. He just looked busy doing it.

Really've got to strongly disagree here. Considering he hasn't been with the team for a week yet, and the fact that he was supposed to be behind Arcidiacono coming into this game, Felder did great. Hoiberg clearly recognized it and gave him more minutes than Arcidiacono. And he played as good or better than Grant in 11 less minutes. He missed some shots but they were clearly good shots to take that you have to expect he'll start to make. In a game that w elost by 17 points he was a +3. That's really good.

16 MIN, 2-2 (100%) FT, 2 REB, 6 AST, +3, 6 PTS

I mean, that's not a lot of minutes and he managed to finish second on the team in assists with only one less than Grant in 11 less minutes. Also, two rebounds in only 16 minutes is good for any guard, especially one who's 5'9". I think it was a very good first game.

Watch on YouTube

[rowseyna]

That doesn't mean he did well. He was chirpy, lively, vibrant, moved around a lot. He also routinely found trouble and cannot drive right. He's worth having to see if he can become a bench sparkplug, but he offers little.

I think he offers a lot. Athleticism, strength, quickness, shooting, ball handling, passing... He's a dynamite offensive player who is a very good passer and scorer. And while his defense needs some work and won't ever be elite due to his height, it's underrated. I don't see how you can watch a guy like that who so clearly can score and make plays for others and say he offers little. He's got "spark plug" written all over him. He played very well last night... especially considering he's only been with the team for a few days. Kid's only entering his second season and is still only 22.