Mirotic/Portis - Portis suspended 8 games p71 Portis Interviewed

[Rerisen]

I’m going to put this out there.

For many years now the Bulls management have put a heavy emphasis on getting the right type of people and high character people on the team, so much so to the frustration of some fans, because we would either drop or forego acquiring players with suspect reputations. If you’ve been a Bulls fan for as long as I have, I’m sure you’d agree.

Which leads me to the point that if the front office was aware that the hatred between those two were so significant and obvious they would have simple looked past it? Putting my personal feelings aside towards the front office currently which isn’t great, I’d answer no quite confidently.

This is why this story being a reason to further bash the front office just doesn’t seem right, because there are legitimate reasons to be unhappy with them and this isnt one of them.

I think that they targeted high character for so long, and no longer know how to find it, actually speaks to the declining level of competence over the last few years. That even if not super talented, they once prided on culture and a team that plays hard every night and buys in to their coach, and now we have none of that the last few years - nothing but platitudes about it every summer that are laughably at odds with the actual result.

And that in reading what's in stuff like Cowley's piece and what Vince is saying, we have a leaderless clubhouse, where there is distrust, lack of communication, and a way of doing business that is seen as unclear or shady even to the players. Whether this is all stemming from Gar taking on major duties like Cowley hints, or that Paxson just isn't that interested anymore since he wanted to quit, who knows, but its bad.

And now, the ugly cover of the rebuild is none of this dysfunction needs fixing or addressed for years, and they can continue on as is, because 'haha we want to lose anyway'.

Just when I think my confidence in this team can't get lower something like this happens and proves me wrong.

[Proven_Winner]

why is the onus on portis to walk away or to deescalate ?

if nikola had not come at him at least twice ,

not shoved him at least twice

and then lunged at him

he wouldn't need surgery

he's at least 5 years older than bobby where are the calls for his maturity ?

if he had simply walked away when it was deescalated the 1st time we wouldn't need a near 60 page thread .

by all accounts now mirotic was the aggressor , therefore regardless of the outcome most of the blame for the altercation lies with him.

in the simplest terms , mirotic was the bully here

bobby didnt start the fight , he just ended it.

Poor Bobby. I understand. He's a victim here. He was minding his own business when the evil, shot-chucking Niko attacked him. Whatever is he going to do to protect himself?

i'm just going by the agreed upon facts , is it really bobby's fault he's better at fighting

when nicola lunged at him after shoving him 2-3 times and being separated and coming at him again

what was mirotic lunging at bobby for when he got decked ...to give him the most sweetest hug ever

c'mon

if you dont want to fight , dont fight .

dont escalate , dont put your hands on people , don't lunge at them

you dont believe me , walk outside your home and lunge or shove the 1st person you come across

half the time the person will flee , half the time they will deck you

if you dont want violence dont be violent ...its really that simple.

A freaking men.

They always say don’t point your gun unless you’re going to shoot. Don’t ever ball your fist if you’re not prepared to get hit.

[fleet]

If this was the Knicks organization, or somewhere that had the reputation for dysfunction the last few years, like we do, Bulls fans would be all over casting a wide net.

First, that already happened here so no need for an analogy. Second, I wouldn't because it's silly. But you're certainly right that many Bulls fans would.

It's not silly when there is a culture of dysfunction exactly in which these type of incidents can brew.

Where one guy breaking his teammates face isn't just about you elbowed me in the ribs on the last play.

Gosh, perfect storm.

-2 players with an alleged history of animosity, unaddressed or at least not resolved by the team

-2 players in the best shape of their careers show up with bounce.

-The coach makes a starter decision that while maybe correct, either did not explain it to the loser well enough to point his mind right, and or did not let the competition play itself out fully in order to settle it for now to everybody's satisfaction.

-The 2 guys are allowed in a practice to run up and down the court with bad intentions and actions and nobody in charge steps in until one guy is unconscious.

Hindsight is 20/20. But it looks a dang connect the dots.

[Payt10]

The craziest part of the Cowley article is the bit on Jim Boylen. He supposedly "charged" at Portis too and could have easily gotten decked. Also, somebody needs to explain to me exactly what that means, by the way, because it's such a vague term. Everytime I hear it makes it seem like a free safety getting ready to lower their shoulder on an incoming WR.

[fleet]

The craziest part of the Cowley article is the bit on Jim Boylen. He supposedly "charged" at Portis too and could have easily gotten decked. Also, somebody needs to explain to me exactly what that means, by the way, because it's such a vague term. Everytime I hear it makes it seem like a free safety getting ready to lower there shoulder on an incoming WR.

Have you ever seen Earl Weaver?

Watch on YouTube

[Jeffster81]

Both guys were clowns and should be shown the door. But until that day comes, when Portis comes off suspension he comes off the bench and is the 4th big in the rotation. Cris should be the first big off the bench and Portis plays whenever Lauri needs a break. When Niko comes back, he will compete with Portis straight up for the spot. By next summer, I want both guys gone, period, neither has the kind of talent that makes an organization overlooks off-the-court behavior to keep on the roster.

[Rerisen]

The craziest part of the Cowley article is the bit on Jim Boylen. He supposedly "charged" at Portis too and could have easily gotten decked. Also, somebody needs to explain to me exactly what that means, by the way, because it's such a vague term. Everytime I hear it makes it seem like a free safety getting ready to lower there shoulder on an incoming WR.

Well Fred couldn't charge into it with his heart situation.

I think this kind of young crew might need a much tougher disciplined voice than Hoiberg. Maybe not as tough as Thibs, but wow the atmosphere here seems totally 'inmates running the asylum', with players having no check on what they do or say, going back to the Butler/Wade/Rondo stuff.

Now some kind of communication error happened with Portis it certainly seems, via his role.

Fred seems like a fitting coach for them offensively, mainly just because his system is very free and encouraging to take first opportunities, which young players will like. But in every other measure of drilling these guys into a organized unit.... not so sure he's the guy.

Of course at this point he's probably not actually seen as the guy, but unfortunately just not worth paying to go away, and thus letting him helm a few tank years before you try to go get the B to C coach.

[Proven_Winner]

The craziest part of the Cowley article is the bit on Jim Boylen. He supposedly "charged" at Portis too and could have easily gotten decked. Also, somebody needs to explain to me exactly what that means, by the way, because it's such a vague term. Everytime I hear it makes it seem like a free safety getting ready to lower their shoulder on an incoming WR.

If I had to guess Bobby decked him and once it was clear he was knocked out Boylen cane running and yelling. Of course Bobby already mad looking naturally and now actually upset probably looked down at boylen. Just seems over dramatized.

[DanTown8587]

So Fred struggled to get a win now/older team to follow him (2015)
He struggled when there was a bunch of alphas and young guys (2016)
Now he has a brawl with a team of supposedly young and hungry NBA guys (2017)

I knew Fred lacked the demeanor to really be authoritative ala Thibs but you can even see Steve Kerr get on his guys when he needs to. You can't coach in this league if you're one speed. The players will tune that out and do whatever they want.

I just think this all needs to go and my hope is Collins recommends that to the owner and thats why I think he's here.

[Rerisen]

So Fred struggled to get a win now/older team to follow him (2015)
He struggled when there was a bunch of alphas and young guys (2016)
Now he has a brawl with a team of supposedly young and hungry NBA guys (2017)

I knew Fred lacked the demeanor to really be authoritative ala Thibs but you can even see Steve Kerr get on his guys when he needs to. You can't coach in this league if you're one speed. The players will tune that out and do whatever they want.

I just think this all needs to go and my hope is Collins recommends that to the owner and thats why I think he's here.

Also, judging on the Bulls past M.O. the punishment seems very light here?

One point that is being made a lot is that a one off punch/fight could happen anywhere, even to a Spurs or GS, I think that is technically true, that it is at least possible. Though if it did, I can't see Pop only doling out 8 games.

Moreover though, I also think its true that having an atmosphere where there is little leadership, little coach authority, little trust in management or how they make decisions (esp on floor related) can be like pouring gas into the mix and making something like this much more likely. Which is how this now looks reading via the reporting.

[RedBulls23]

The craziest part of the Cowley article is the bit on Jim Boylen. He supposedly "charged" at Portis too and could have easily gotten decked. Also, somebody needs to explain to me exactly what that means, by the way, because it's such a vague term. Everytime I hear it makes it seem like a free safety getting ready to lower there shoulder on an incoming WR.

Well Fred couldn't charge into it with his heart situation.

I think this kind of young crew might need a much tougher disciplined voice than Hoiberg. Maybe not as tough as Thibs, but wow the atmosphere here seems totally 'inmates running the asylum', with players having no check on what they do or say, going back to the Butler/Wade/Rondo stuff.

Now some kind of communication error happened with Portis it certainly seems, via his role.

Fred seems like a fitting coach for them offensively, mainly just because his system is very free and encouraging to take first opportunities, which young players will like. But in every other measure of drilling these guys into a organized unit.... not so sure he's the guy.

Of course at this point he's probably not actually seen as the guy, but unfortunately just not worth paying to go away, and thus letting him helm a few tank years before you try to go get the B to C coach.

Yup, when Pax first took over he bought in a hard ass in Skiles.

Maybe it doesn't need to be a hardass in general, but at least someone that won't be a pushover who's decisions are respected.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

It would be hard for the Bulls to justify NOT having such a response, where they cover all bases of this that could be factors, when like I pointed out way back in the beginning, they did hold the D-League in partial responsibility when one of our guys got knocked out there.

Do you have any evidence that they held the D league partially responsible?

They stopped sending any players to the D-league for several years. Pretty sure Pax even made a statement about it.

But it had nothing to do with the league itself, their stated concern at the time was that they had no control over the coaching staff of the team they would be sending their players to. In response to Andridlsiefhsveoirhg getting knocked out by a (non-Bull) in practice, implying that they had no control over the situation.

Which makes this pretty funny and ironic if you think about it...

[sonny]

Yup thats the same guy. At least the target wasnt his own team mate, didnt hit(ie missed the target) and isnt a mental case like Bobby who has to envision his mother gettin beaten up by opponents to get him ready for the game.

So is throwing a punch a terrible thing that should never be allowed or not?

Portis needs to be exiled because he's a better puncher and/or Niko isn't as quick with his dodge as Serge?

If Lopez connected, would he still be a good leader for Lauri to look up to?

By next summer, I want both guys gone, period, neither has the kind of talent that makes an organization overlooks off-the-court behavior to keep on the roster.

This took place on the court though.

[fleet]

Upper jaw fractures. And a concusion. Usually its the lower jaw correct? What a shot. Bobby could easily have a broken hand. What a shot. Niko must have been coming in hard and Bobby just put a short straight right with shoulder rotation perfect on the money.

[The Senator]

So Fred struggled to get a win now/older team to follow him (2015)
He struggled when there was a bunch of alphas and young guys (2016)
Now he has a brawl with a team of supposedly young and hungry NBA guys (2017)

I knew Fred lacked the demeanor to really be authoritative ala Thibs but you can even see Steve Kerr get on his guys when he needs to. You can't coach in this league if you're one speed. The players will tune that out and do whatever they want.

I just think this all needs to go and my hope is Collins recommends that to the owner and thats why I think he's here.

Agreed on all counts. Hoiberg doesn't seem to command respect in the locker room. It's one thing to be a taskmaster in the Skiles mold, it's another to take such a laid back stance that the players don't know when to step in line.

[Habs72]

Yup thats the same guy. At least the target wasnt his own team mate, didnt hit(ie missed the target) and isnt a mental case like Bobby who has to envision his mother gettin beaten up by opponents to get him ready for the game.

So is throwing a punch a terrible thing that should never be allowed or not?

Portis needs to be exiled because he's a better puncher and/or Niko isn't as quick with his dodge as Serge?

If Lopez connected, would he still be a good leader for Lauri to look up to?

By next summer, I want both guys gone, period, neither has the kind of talent that makes an organization overlooks off-the-court behavior to keep on the roster.

This took place on the court though.

You have reading problems or just understanding problems about what i have written in this thread about punching people?

[3noD]

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/bulls-suspend-bobby-portis-for-eight-games-after-fight-with-mirotic/

Re nailed it.

Man, if you assume that the article is completely accurate, it says a lot of really, really bad things about our players. Here is a summary:

1. Gar told Portis, Grant, Valentine and Felicio to all spend the summer working hard at the team's facilities.

2. Niko, a veteran, was also at the team's facilities working out all summer, but didn't play in the basketball games because he was a free agent and worried about getting injured without a contract.

3. Niko, who is clearly better than Portis, was then resigned and made the starter.

4. This made not just Portis, but several other Bulls players (who are snitching to Cowley) angry, leading to the bad blood that caused Portis to punch Niko.

5. The other players, due to their anger at Niko being the starter and not playing basketball with them this summer, don't think Portis needed to apologize for breaking his teammate's face.

Nice foundation we have there. Real encouraging. Good stuff.

And as an aside, these articles are part of why despite him hitting on some legitimately important stories, its hard to take Cowley seriously. The premise of the article is that its Gar's fault, and the only specific action attributed to Gar by anyone in the article, is that he told 4 young players to work hard over the summer.

I mean, I want Gar fired too, but its hard to not doubt a reporter with such a transparent agenda.

Great post, if the article is correct, and our players are pouting and scheming because Niko was lifting but not playing games with them, cut their asses. Keep Lauri, Zach and Holiday and send each and everyone of these pouting babies packing. That's weak.


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[SHO'NUFF]

Markkanen is going to play bad on purpose so he doesn't get more minutes than Portis....or start over him.

[fleet]

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/bulls-suspend-bobby-portis-for-eight-games-after-fight-with-mirotic/

Re nailed it.

Man, if you assume that the article is completely accurate, it says a lot of really, really bad things about our players. Here is a summary:

1. Gar told Portis, Grant, Valentine and Felicio to all spend the summer working hard at the team's facilities.

2. Niko, a veteran, was also at the team's facilities working out all summer, but didn't play in the basketball games because he was a free agent and worried about getting injured without a contract.

3. Niko, who is clearly better than Portis, was then resigned and made the starter.

4. This made not just Portis, but several other Bulls players (who are snitching to Cowley) angry, leading to the bad blood that caused Portis to punch Niko.

5. The other players, due to their anger at Niko being the starter and not playing basketball with them this summer, don't think Portis needed to apologize for breaking his teammate's face.

Nice foundation we have there. Real encouraging. Good stuff.

And as an aside, these articles are part of why despite him hitting on some legitimately important stories, its hard to take Cowley seriously. The premise of the article is that its Gar's fault, and the only specific action attributed to Gar by anyone in the article, is that he told 4 young players to work hard over the summer.

I mean, I want Gar fired too, but its hard to not doubt a reporter with such a transparent agenda.

Great post, if the article is correct, and our players are pouting and scheming because Niko was lifting but not playing games with them, cut their asses. Keep Lauri, Zach and Holiday and send each and everyone of these pouting babies packing. That's weak.

Hell of a thing. One guy sets himself up away from what everyone body else was doing according to the team's suggestions. And the guy who is not cooperating was rewarded. That will predictably engender hard feelings.

[TimRobbins]

I am having a really tough time understading why Portis is still on the team? Any functioning team would cut him instantly. There is absolutely no upside to keeping Portis on the team. It sends a terrible message.

The FO is completely dysfunctional.