How to rebuild. - Merging

[pipfan]

I think the tank is off to a great start. We are playing hard most nights, and seeing some good signs. We have a great draft coming up to be in the top 4. Maybe I am too optimistic, but I see us back in the playoffs in 2020-and I think we have 10 of the 12 we need already.

PG-Dunn-I think he is good as your 5th best starter-and he does have a high ceiling still (marginal All Star?)
Grant-I love him as a back up PG

SG-Lavine-I see him as a future All Star-good 2nd option. He is a hard working and very talented. His D will get better
Valentine-He is not a true starter, but I think he is fine as a 3rd wing-20/25 minutes per night

SF-We need a star here
Nwaba-I LOVE him as a bench player-I would sign him 4 years/$16 million this summer

PF-Lauri-I think he is a great 3rd option and a probable 1 or 2 time All Star some day
Portis-Very good back up PF/3rd big

C-We need bagley/Anton
Felicio-this one is a stretch, but I think he is fine as a 4th big. TERRIBLE contract, but we have to live with it

Deep Bench-Zipser is fine as a 5th forward
Blackney-a nice guy to have as your 5th guard-instant offense type

Lopez, Payne, Holiday, Niko won't be here in 2020

We are in a GREAT spot in many ways. We need to get a star in this draft, but there is a good chance of that.
We also will have a ton of cap space. We can wrap up out solid, young role players to reasonable deals-I think the days of lots of crazy offers to marginal players (guys like Crabb, Mozgov) are over-teams have gotten smarter.

Therefore, we need 2 big pieces, but I see the pieces in place. Great timing too, with solid drafts and LBJ/GS set to continue to dominate the next couple of years.

[johnnyvann840]

Nope.

You're grossly overestimating half of those players. You are trying to say that only changing 1-3 of our rotation players from this current heap of trash is going to somehow result in an improvement from one of the worst teams in the history of the NBA, to a playoff team?

If we keep 10 players of the current roster until 2020, we will suck for a long long long time.

[TheSuzerain]

Go look at the rosters of teams who were as bad as we are. 2012 Bobcats for example.

[Red Larrivee]

It's way too early to even attempt to project things like this. The idea that this is going to be a quick turnaround or that the Bulls can just choose when they'll stop being bad is so far off from reality.

[kodo]

If the FO keeps 10 players from this team they're doing a terrible job.

I would hope there's massive turnover, that's the point of a rebuild. It's not just about draft picks.

[RastaBull]

Yeah, whether guys like Portis or Grant have potential to be quality depth guys for a playoff team, realistically it won't be with the Bulls. Like Superior was alluding to, bench guys don't stuck around long term on a rebuilding team.

MAYBE Valentine will be around.

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[pipfan]

Please note, I was admitting the 2 pieces we need are the BIG pieces. I just think the 10 we have now make sense, moving forward. Continuity has its advantages, and they are all young

[micromonkey]

There is no one on this team that is a win now player
You’d possibly consider Lopez but that is the exact opposite of what we should be thinking

Lauri won’t help you win now for a few years but he’s the only one I’d consider keeping and waiting on.

We are deep in the aquire and trade /maximize optionality mode.

This roster is filled with sub replacement level jokers/Chuckers and generally suckers who ain’t worth a jar of smuckers

Half these guys couldn’t make a shot from 10 ft into the flaming dumpster we now affectionately call “the bulls”

[xpmar9x]

This is an important thread. It's a precursor to "2018 Off-season plan"

I think we keep the following and it's for talent and salary reasons:

Dunn / Grant / Blakeney
LaVine / Holiday / Valentine
????? / Nwaba / Zipser
Lauri / ???? / Portis
???? / Felicio / Portis

I think we keep all of our rookie scale pieces sans Cameron.

Dunn / Grant / Blakeney
LaVine / Holiday / Valentine
JABARI / Nwaba / Zipser
Lauri / ???? / Portis
BAGLEY / Felicio / Portis

Fixed. Also, Jordan Bell woulda looked solid in that backup PF role...

[Hugi Mancura]

What I think Bulls need are primary ball handler and rim protection in starting unit.

Getting a rim protector is easier, there are couple high picks in next draft who can be rim protectors (Ayton, Bagley and Bamba), so picking any of those would solve this problem.

Primary ball handler should be a player who can bring other players in the game and keeps them involved. In todays NBA having primary ball handler who is pure scorer usually harms the team more than it helps. Sure they can succeed in regular season, but usually teams like that are destroyed in playoffs. So from current players I don't see anyone who is good enough to that job. Why? if you count how many times current teams ball handlers have thrown drive & kick passes in a game? That is best way to create open shots today and Bulls have maybe 5 those kind a situations in a game. LaVine might become good one, but I dont think even him would be good at that role. He is scorer. So where do Bulls get this ball handler? I think only Doncic is good enough passer to really count as one. If no Doncic then maybe wait for 2019 draft, but even there doesn't seem to be great passers (don't really follow youngsters so I might be wrong). So if this person isn't found in the draft then its either free agent signing or trade.

If primary ball handler would be a SF, then I can see using Dunn as starter. He could be Bulls Beverley. But most of the time best passers are PG's, which would mean no spot for Dunn in starting unit. This would also be the case if Bulls would draft Porter, cause then Bulls would need a good passing PG. Also, if Bulls would get a passer PG, then Bulls would need to someone to take the starting SF spot, cause don't really see any winning team to use any of the current players as SF.

Markkanen would be starting PF.

Using players like Valentine, Grant and Portis as bench guys is fine (don't like Holiday so he can be kicked out or can be used to replace Grant). Also only top10 really matters, so Nwaba and Blakeney can be those couple extra players as long they aren't in the top10 rotation.

To be honest I don't think Bulls should sign any big names next summer, they should just add drafted players and maybe one experienced PG, but keep rest of the team as it is (exclude Lopez if good trade is found). Then in year 2019 maybe go all in.

[riprose]

Sorry but no one.. Maybe Lauri but I don't think he would want to play for bulls as we will be bad for multiple years.

[jump]

We need someone who can take over a game and get points at will, especially in the 4th Q. We probably need two players like this. LaVine might be that guy, but we don't know yet. Maybe Lauri will develop that ability. It's better if we have a veteran player do it. A group of young players don't know how to do this in the NBA, unless one of them is just a natural star. This is why Thibs made his trade for Jimmy.

[Ctownbulls]

Maybe Lauri, Nwaba seems like he could be a solid 8th man on a good team (energy guy off the bench). Other than that - nobody.

[rowseyna]

https://www.reddit.com/r/chicagobulls/comments/7icwvk/inside_scoop_blakeney_and_derrick_jones_jr_about/?st=jay3gqu5&sh=89ca5b00

[League Circles]

Go look at the rosters of teams who were as bad as we are. 2012 Bobcats for example.

Yep, there's only so much you can identify individuals on this or any terribly bad roster and say, "this guy is OK, he has some value, it's the other guys dragging him down and the situation" before you realize you've gone through the whole roster saying that, which proves it to be a false take.

The reality is that this team has basically 5 guys that have the talent and/or production to be below average starters right now. That's Lopez, Lauri, Niko and Lavine who haven't played, and Dunn. Obviously all but Lopez can still improve, but it's far from certain that really any of them will. Yes even Lauri who I love.

The other guys on the roster are more deep bench, average 2nd and 3rd string players at best. Who are meaningless and don't really drive the needle either way.

And a team with their best 5 players all being below average starters is going to be a terrible team. Especially in year one together with a non-coach.

[erlim]

I think it would be very very easy to replace Zipser, Felicio, and Payne with better players. I think we could do better than Grant and Valentine. I'm wondering how Holiday will scale down with less play time when LaVine gets back. He's slowly slipping from his job as our #1 offensive option.

[musiqsoulchild]

https://www.reddit.com/r/chicagobulls/comments/7icwvk/inside_scoop_blakeney_and_derrick_jones_jr_about/?st=jay3gqu5&sh=89ca5b00

Great pickup if true (about Blakeney and his contract)

[CBS7]

Nope.

You're grossly overestimating half of those players. You are trying to say that only changing 1-3 of our rotation players from this current heap of trash is going to somehow result in an improvement from one of the worst teams in the history of the NBA, to a playoff team?

If we keep 10 players of the current roster until 2020, we will suck for a long long long time.

That's not a great argument considering people are relying greatly on internal growth (Lauri, Dunn, Lavine who hasn't played, a bunch of other of our young guys who aren't so bad as to where its unbelievable that they can be top 10-12 guys on a championship team) and admitting that of the other 3-5 guys, we're missing our best player and probably another top 3 player.

I really doubt we'll keep 10 people, but take this team, give 3 years of experience/chemistry to Lauri/Dunn/Lavine, add a #1 and #3 option, who's to say they wouldn't be good?

[dougthonus]

There isn't a player on this team the Bulls should be scared of letting go including Lauri and Lavine. Obviously if you dump Lauri you'd want some really good value back since he's one year into a value rookie deal and looks to have star potential while not even costing top of the draft money.

Lavine has pretty minimal value IMO only because of the questions around his injury and requirement for a new deal this off-season, but he also has good potential. That said if someone else was in love with him and wanted him and offered something really good then the Bulls shouldn't question it.

That said, it's hard to see the scenario that any team would want to pay a reasonable price for either guy since they both probably fit the Bulls situation well and we wouldn't discount either guy due to situation more so than another team (like we might discount Robin Lopez due to not wanting to compete right away or Mirotic/Portis due to the fight etc... )

[Alcatraz17]

Nope.

You're grossly overestimating half of those players. You are trying to say that only changing 1-3 of our rotation players from this current heap of trash is going to somehow result in an improvement from one of the worst teams in the history of the NBA, to a playoff team?

If we keep 10 players of the current roster until 2020, we will suck for a long long long time.

I disagree.

I'm not saying I want this to happen, but..

Dunn
LaVine
Nwaba
Lauri
Rolo

2018 Draft Pick
2018 Free Agent signing
Niko
Holiday
Portis
Valentine
Grant

That could a fringe 8th spot next year if you really needed to argue.

This seasons bulls team has had significant stretches of games with effective players out...and by effective...I mean for this group of talent.

No way in hell are we 5-20 if Nwaba, Dunn, Niko and Bobby dont miss time this year, and LaVine starts the season. Healthy all year, this is probably a 25-30 win team.

But Bulls are on pace for 16 wins...and they wont be full strength til February...so this team is gonna end up in the 17-22 win window.
Hardly one of the worst teams ever.