2018 Draft Discussion #3

keobulls · Post #541 » by **keobulls** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:32 am

I guess I just don't get how someone can look at Ayton and say "physical specimen, great on O, maybe his D will get there, but he will DEFINITELY affect winning" and turn around and say about Bamba "physical specimen, great on D, maybe his O will get there, but he will definitely NOT affect winning". Perhaps it just comes down to what you prefer watching. I can't stand watching a center on the team I root for get cared up on D even if he gives us 20 and 10. We would be back to all the arguments that were going on when Boozer or Pau was here.

MC3 · Post #542 » by **MC3** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:37 am

It's time to start scouting Hachimura's of this draft

3noD · Post #543 » by **3noD** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:25 am

Dresden wrote:Apparently, Porter had been suffering from back pain or soreness for some time. It must have been aggravated during that first game, and his camp must have decided to go ahead and have the surgery now, rather than try to play through it another year. The chances of a good outcome are increased I would think, due to his young age.

Maybe Markkanen is suffering from something similar.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

3noD · Post #544 » by **3noD** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:33 am

Given Bulls recent winning, maybe we’ll be more in the 5-8 range in the draft. Who would you pick then? Plenty of potential there. Jackson, Knox and Sexton all have ton of upside as well. Jackson and Knox just not quite as developed yet. Bridges are both worth keeping an eye on. And finally Trae Young putting crazy numbers shouldn’t be ignored.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

TheSuzerain · Post #545 » by **TheSuzerain** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:55 am

sigh, Grayson Allen it is

Benedict Miller · Post #546 » by **Benedict Miller** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:34 am

Bamba's offense is trash. But can't deny his defense & rebounding. Still needs a lot more muscle and weight to be more effective on both sides of the ball.

Dresden · Post #547 » by **Dresden** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:00 am

Watching Gobert tonight makes the point of how valuable a great rim protector can be. I think he had a +14 tonight, I don't know why they sat him late in the game. When he was in the game we were getting nothing within 6' of the basket.

I have my doubts right now that Bomba can have that kind of impact. Gobert is solidly built, he can hold his ground when people try to back him down. Bomba may never have that type of strength, and he will just pushed under the basket. He'll still block some shots, but I just don't know if he'll reach Goberts level.

Post #548 » by **GimmeDat** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:02 am

Overreactions right here. We're still going to suck.

Dresden · Post #549 » by **Dresden** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:05 am

Red Larrivee wrote:
Dresden wrote:I just think there are problems with guys that tall. No one that is that long has ever been a great scorer in the nba. His frame is great for blocking shots, but I'm not sure he WILL be able to fill out much. Sure, if he was built like Ayton and had that kind of reach, then I'd say his worth the gamble. But you have to hope a) he fills out and gets stronger, and b) his basketball skills improve as well as his strength, so that he can finish around the basket.

Otherwise, I think he'll just get shoved around in the NBA. Or they'll foul him and send him to the line all the time. It takes more than just length to be a great center, which is why Manute Bol, Shawn Bradley, Mark Eaton, etc. were never anything more than shot blockers. If he could turn out to like Mutombo, that would be pretty good. But Mutombo was strong as an ox.

That tall? Bamba is 7 feet on the dot.

Sure, Bamba's scoring upside is limited, but what's stopping him from being an overall impact player? There's an easy formula at the center position for having a positive contribution:

Rebounding + Paint Protection + Overall Defense + High % shots at the rim.

Those qualities are the foundation of an effective center in today's NBA.

You can probably get someone like that for less value than Bamba's projected draft spot, but it wouldn't be shocking at all if Bamba is a huge +/- darling. Everytime he's on the floor he makes any shot in the paint a low percentage attempt. He also runs players out of the paint with his length. Bamba's defensive upside is sky high. With players that can get him the ball at the rim, he could easily be a double double every game.

I meant his length, not just his height. I"m not sure how strong he will ever be. And without some strength, he isn't going to be able to be that great rim protector, and especially not a good rebounder.

Dresden · Post #550 » by **Dresden** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:06 am

bulls4ever wrote:name one center today that makes big impact winning a game because of defensive skills ...

Gobert?

ImSlower · Post #551 » by **ImSlower** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:07 am

TheSuzerain wrote:sigh, Grayson Allen it is

There hasn't been a potential pick I would rather not draft since... Well Lonzo Ball. But before that. I can't recall.

Grayson Allen has the most punchable face I have ever seen.

Repeat 3-peat · Post #552 » by **Repeat 3-peat** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:10 am

ImSlower wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:sigh, Grayson Allen it is

Grayson Allen has the most punchable face I have ever seen.

Nobody will top Elfried Payton Imo.

Dresden · Post #553 » by **Dresden** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:11 am

3noD wrote:Given Bulls recent winning, maybe we’ll be more in the 5-8 range in the draft. Who would you pick then? Plenty of potential there. Jackson, Knox and Sexton all have ton of upside as well. Jackson and Knox just not quite as developed yet. Bridges are both worth keeping an eye on. And finally Trae Young putting crazy numbers shouldn’t be ignored.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I really like Mikal Bridges. 18 ppg, 1.3 blocks, 2.1 steals, shooting 48% on 3's, 55% overall. Seems like a great 3 and D guy who is also very athletic. He looks like he has a huge wingspan. He is a junior, so a bit older. But he would fit nicely into our sf opening.

Post #554 » by **GimmeDat** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:15 am

Entertaining the idea that we drop in the draft, I would take one of Knox or JJJ, otherwise Mikal Bridges.

Dresden · Post #555 » by **Dresden** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:29 am

I wonder if this idea that you have to have a Top 5 player on your team to win a championship still has validity. When Lebron retires, I'm not sure there is anyone in the league capable of single handedly carrying a team. I wonder if we might see more teams built like Boston- no true superstar but talent up and down the lineup, and two really good scorers in Kyrie and Haywood. More of a team game. Like how GS plays, although they do have two superstars to boot.

The Force. · Post #556 » by **The Force.** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:31 am

This draft is about 8 players deep IMO. Each of those guys has all-star potential with maybe 1 or 2 having superstar potential. Typically you increase your odds of drafting a superstar with a top 3 player, however the top 3 guys in this draft all have pretty significant question marks. The one guy who most analysts say has separated himself from the pack is Doncic but most would agree that he has some pretty obvious athletic limitations.

Point being, yes it will suck if the Bulls manage to play themselves out of top 3 odds, but let's not have a meltdown because the next 5 are all very strong prospects as well.

The Force. · Post #557 » by **The Force.** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:38 am

Dresden wrote:I wonder if this idea that you have to have a Top 5 player on your team to win a championship still has validity. When Lebron retires, I'm not sure there is anyone in the league capable of single handedly carrying a team. I wonder if we might see more teams built like Boston- no true superstar but talent up and down the lineup, and two really good scorers in Kyrie and Haywood. More of a team game. Like how GS plays, although they do have two superstars to boot.

Golden State built a championship team with players drafted at 7 and below. Of course the odds are less favorable but there are still plenty of busts in the top 5.

The Force. · Post #558 » by **The Force.** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:42 am

SportsGuy8 · Post #559 » by **SportsGuy8** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:51 am

The Force. wrote:
Dresden wrote:I wonder if this idea that you have to have a Top 5 player on your team to win a championship still has validity. When Lebron retires, I'm not sure there is anyone in the league capable of single handedly carrying a team. I wonder if we might see more teams built like Boston- no true superstar but talent up and down the lineup, and two really good scorers in Kyrie and Haywood. More of a team game. Like how GS plays, although they do have two superstars to boot.

Golden State built a championship team with players drafted at 7 and below. Of course the odds are less favorable but there are still plenty of busts in the top 5.

They also got extremely lucky that David Kahn inexplicably picked Flynn after Rubio. Even at the time, Curry was the perfect player to pair Rubio with, unlike Flynn who was a terrible fit.

Without Curry, all those other great draft picks wouldn't have helped them much, maybe put them into pretender territory, with no way of getting Durant.

ArizonaBullsFan · Post #560 » by **ArizonaBullsFan** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:12 pm

bulls4ever wrote:Tyson is not "today's" player. that time PFs and C would not play outside as much as todays. rim protector was a must.

today's game id pick Shaq way before considering any top defensive player. would provide much more impact

And its not like I am suggesting that Bamba is worth a second rounder... Just that he is not worth being a top 5.

Let's not forget, Tyson was supposed to be the next Garnett. He had a jumper and while also being a defensive monster.
The funny thing is, I saw him in more than one pre-game shootaround back when you whippersnappers were still in diapers, and I am not exaggerating one iota when I tell you he was deadly from 18 feet in shootaround.

Shaq made 3 All-Defense teams, he was no slouch on that end. 15th All-Time in blocks per game.

Shaq, like most All-Time greats, could play in any era. No doubt about it. (Not counting the 1940s, for obvious reasons).