2018 Draft Discussion #3

[SportsGuy8]

My main point is that doubters keep saying that he needs to be judged vs. lottery type of talent from the NCAA. Well, here you have Claver, a player who scouts deemed worthy and talented enough to be among top 2 dozens prospects, and would be the best player on most NCAA teams (since there's so many of them).

This is the type of talent that's usually the best player on teams NCAA prospects face on a weekly basis.

[League Circles]

Yeah I think Bamba is starting to become criminally underrated. I got him under Doncic,Bagley, (Healthy best case scenario)Porter and Ayton, but at worst he's gonna be a defensive terror once he adds weight. His shooting stroke shows promise although he isn't making it consistently yet. And there is plenty of time to improve his back to the basket game. If he only reaches half of his potential and doesn't add consistent go-to offense into his arsental at worst he's still a perennial DPOY candidate in his prime IMO.

I haven't scouter thoroughly yet but he's my #3 pick behind Doncic and Bagley. Ayton and him are probably a wash for me, but I'd take either over Porter.

[Bob8]

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This was vs. a player (Claver) who was deemed worthy of a 22nd pick in the draft even though they knew he was going to stay in Europe for a couple more years (so they thought he was worthy of an even much higher pick).

Sure, he busted, but scouts deemed him as basically a late lottery pick type of talent.

So Luka crossed over a bust. I like it...

But Claver is still better than 99% of kids, who are playing against Ayton, Bagley&co.

[kodo]

I wonder if this idea that you have to have a Top 5 player on your team to win a championship still has validity. When Lebron retires, I'm not sure there is anyone in the league capable of single handedly carrying a team. I wonder if we might see more teams built like Boston- no true superstar but talent up and down the lineup, and two really good scorers in Kyrie and Haywood. More of a team game. Like how GS plays, although they do have two superstars to boot.

Golden State built a championship team with players drafted at 7 and below. Of course the odds are less favorable but there are still plenty of busts in the top 5.

They got very lucky in snagging Curry who was tanking himself to go to NY, even when he told GS not to pick him and refused to work out for them.

Curry, if he has been open to what team drafted him, would have gone #2, directly from the Memphis GM at the time. There was also belief Presti was giving Curry at least equal consideration to Harden.

If we draft #7, and Doncic or Ayton say "we're not interested in playing for anyone other than Chicago, we'll be refusing workouts and we'll be demanding a trade if you do draft us," sure we can draft a superstar at 7.

But those are the shenanigans that got GS the equivalent of a #2 pick that unlikely to happen with us. Barring that kind of blatant draft pick tanking, Chicago wants a top 4 pick.

[SportsGuy8]

Doncic is A LOT better prospect than Curry was (at the time of the draft, obviously). He can say that he's going to stay 2 more years in Europe, and he would still be going top 5 for sure. Even if he threatens that he's going to sit out a year if other teams draft him (and thus re-enter the draft in 2019) ... Someone would STILL pick him before #7.

Divac and Peja are probably drooling at the thought of getting Doncic.
Cuban is surely going to see a replacement for Dirk in him.
Budenholzer would finally have a guy that would allow him to run his offensive ideas through. He was even at the Eurobasket.
...

[bulls4ever]

Watching Gobert tonight makes the point of how valuable a great rim protector can be. I think he had a +14 tonight, I don't know why they sat him late in the game. When he was in the game we were getting nothing within 6' of the basket.

I have my doubts right now that Bomba can have that kind of impact. Gobert is solidly built, he can hold his ground when people try to back him down. Bomba may never have that type of strength, and he will just pushed under the basket. He'll still block some shots, but I just don't know if he'll reach Goberts level.

Because he was blocking shots from Lopez who is not a perimeter player.... If he had to be outside, his effectiveness blocking (and even rebounding) would be reduced.

If center plays in the perimeter it will remove him from the rim, permitting other players to attack at will, if needed ...

Obviously we don't have a perimeter oriented center, but Ayton would be one. can shoot from anywhere! Can open the space for others ...

btw, it we all had the same opinion there would be no need for mock draft and we'd know months ahead who would be selecting who ...

[The-Power]

Yeah I think Bamba is starting to become criminally underrated. I got him under Doncic,Bagley, (Healthy best case scenario)Porter and Ayton, but at worst he's gonna be a defensive terror once he adds weight. His shooting stroke shows promise although he isn't making it consistently yet. And there is plenty of time to improve his back to the basket game. If he only reaches half of his potential and doesn't add consistent go-to offense into his arsental at worst he's still a perennial DPOY candidate in his prime IMO.

I haven't scouter thoroughly yet but he's my #3 pick behind Doncic and Bagley. Ayton and him are probably a wash for me, but I'd take either over Porter.

Don't sleep on Jaren Jackson. He definitely belongs in the same conversation as the other guys you just mentioned.

[bulls4ever]

I wonder if this idea that you have to have a Top 5 player on your team to win a championship still has validity. When Lebron retires, I'm not sure there is anyone in the league capable of single handedly carrying a team. I wonder if we might see more teams built like Boston- no true superstar but talent up and down the lineup, and two really good scorers in Kyrie and Haywood. More of a team game. Like how GS plays, although they do have two superstars to boot.

Golden State built a championship team with players drafted at 7 and below. Of course the odds are less favorable but there are still plenty of busts in the top 5.

They got very lucky in snagging Curry who was tanking himself to go to NY, even when he told GS not to pick him and refused to work out for them.

Curry, if he has been open to what team drafted him, would have gone #2, directly from the Memphis GM at the time. There was also belief Presti was giving Curry at least equal consideration to Harden.

If we draft #7, and Doncic or Ayton say "we're not interested in playing for anyone other than Chicago, we'll be refusing workouts and we'll be demanding a trade if you do draft us," sure we can draft a superstar at 7.

But those are the shenanigans that got GS the equivalent of a #2 pick that unlikely to happen with us. Barring that kind of blatant draft pick tanking, Chicago wants a top 4 pick.

If player say that but are a top 2/3 for most GMs. they will be selected regardless before #7. Nobody would let them go just cause of that. Then they trade... if not they will be forced to go to Europe and play less.

the issue is not what the player say or want .. issue is agent ... they will threat to not let any free agent to sign to them and stuff like that

[MC3]

It's hard to draft player if player and his agent refuse to do any workouts or interviews. Specially that high. That's what Steph did, that's what Zingis did. That's what Kobe did. You basically blindly choosing pick. Zingis refused to participate in any workouts and Hinkie still wanted him. And 76ers owner wanted sure guy after blatant tanking basically forcing Hinkie in some extent to pass on him for Okafor who worked for them.

I am not 100% sure, but Kings till this day can't get legit lottery picks prospect to workout for them and do interviews. It's public secret. Prospects dont want to get drafted in that organization. That's why Kings last year moved down the lottery for asset. That's why some are suspicios why Kings picked Georgios Papagiannis with lottery pick and got lucky picking Skal late.

[bulls4ever]

so .. if LeBron James refused to do a workout and interview do you think a team would pass on him?
or duncam?

Certain drafts we know who the top pick or top 2 or top 3 will be. after that it becomes a bit complicated. I doubt a team would pass on a "certain" #1 pick because he didn't do workouts or interview.
the minimum they would pick to work on a trade...

[SportsGuy8]

Porzingis was a big question mark. Kobe only played vs. high-schoolers and drafting 18-year-olds was looked down to back then. Curry wasn't regarded nearly as high as a prospect ...

Doncic is starting to toy with opponents in a league that has teams that in the past actually won some preseason games vs. actual NBA teams.

Among the top lottery teams, the Suns are probably the only ones that could possibly pass on Doncic with like a 3rd or 4th pick if he said he wouldn't show up, and even that's doubtful. All other top lottery teams have front offices that are probably in love with Doncic right now.

[SfBull]

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[SfBull]

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[DroseReturnChi]

Porzingis was a big question mark. Kobe only played vs. high-schoolers and drafting 18-year-olds was looked down to back then. Curry wasn't regarded nearly as high as a prospect ...

Doncic is starting to toy with opponents in a league that has teams that in the past actually won some preseason games vs. actual NBA teams.

Among the top lottery teams, the Suns are probably the only ones that could possibly pass on Doncic with like a 3rd or 4th pick if he said he wouldn't show up, and even that's doubtful. All other top lottery teams have front offices that are probably in love with Doncic right now.

yeah, but the problem is can Doncic stuff the stat sheet like the unicorn? One of the reason why Porzingis is destined to be a basketball god is due to his 7'3 height and wingspan and his quickness like a guard. I get people saying Doncic will make a good impact as well as anybody but I still very much prefer a guy that stuff the stat sheet like Westbrook/ Giannis. As much as Doncic is proven in the Euroleague, his weakness has been exposed to a certain extent scouts can tell he wont be a superstar.

I usually used to like guys that have strong intangibles like a Iguodala, Joakim Noah types that impact like a superstar although they dont fill the stat sheet. But after witnessing how Noah fell off, I dont want another Gobert type of impact player since building around him is nearly impossible.

Again, if the Bulls play so well and fall to pick 3-5, Doncic will be bpa. But if they someone got number 1 pick and miss out on a generational talent, I will be extremely pissed. The franchise's entire destiny relies on this pick and they cannot afford to settle on a safe pick. If they think there's no generational talent fine by me. Trade down for future lottery picks like Boston did.

[bulls4ever]

I usually used to like guys that have strong intangibles like a Iguodala, Joakim Noah types that impact like a superstar although they dont fill the stat sheet. But after witnessing how Noah fell off, I dont want another Gobert type of impact player since building around him is nearly impossible.

this more or less how I feel about Mamba, Nothing wrong selecting those type of players, but I think top 3 is too high

My issue is Doncic is not that I am afraid he wont be a super star ... is more that he plays a position we least need. IMO, he'd have to be much better then others to justify the selection. And I don't even know if he is better ...

[SportsGuy8]

Porzingis was a big question mark. Kobe only played vs. high-schoolers and drafting 18-year-olds was looked down to back then. Curry wasn't regarded nearly as high as a prospect ...

Doncic is starting to toy with opponents in a league that has teams that in the past actually won some preseason games vs. actual NBA teams.

Among the top lottery teams, the Suns are probably the only ones that could possibly pass on Doncic with like a 3rd or 4th pick if he said he wouldn't show up, and even that's doubtful. All other top lottery teams have front offices that are probably in love with Doncic right now.

yeah, but the problem is can Doncic stuff the stat sheet like the unicorn? One of the reason why Porzingis is destined to be a basketball god is due to his 7'3 height and wingspan and his quickness like a guard. I get people saying Doncic will make a good impact as well as anybody but I still very much prefer a guy that stuff the stat sheet like Westbrook/ Giannis. As much as Doncic is proven in the Euroleague, his weakness has been exposed to a certain extent scouts can tell he wont be a superstar.

I usually used to like guys that have strong intangibles like a Iguodala, Joakim Noah types that impact like a superstar although they dont fill the stat sheet. But after witnessing how Noah fell off, I dont want another Gobert type of impact player since building around him is nearly impossible.

Again, if the Bulls play so well and fall to pick 3-5, Doncic will be bpa. But if they someone got number 1 pick and miss out on a generational talent, I will be extremely pissed. The franchise's entire destiny relies on this pick and they cannot afford to settle on a safe pick. If they think there's no generational talent fine by me. Trade down for future lottery picks like Boston did.

Wait, stuffing the stat sheet is the thing Doncic excels at. That's why he currently sits on a Euroleague Index Rating (something similar to PER) of 28, while the 2nd best in the Euroleague is at 21. And he's only 18.

His per36 averages are currently 23.5 ppg, 8 rpg, 6apg. And assists are harder to get credit for in Europe. Personally, I think his scoring should drop a bit in the NBA, mostly at the expense of assists. Put him in a Harden-like role, and he would RIGHT NOW, at the age of 18, probably average something like 20-8-8. Harden's role does inflate the stats, though, so keep that in mind.

[KD95]

Porzingis was a big question mark. Kobe only played vs. high-schoolers and drafting 18-year-olds was looked down to back then. Curry wasn't regarded nearly as high as a prospect ...

Doncic is starting to toy with opponents in a league that has teams that in the past actually won some preseason games vs. actual NBA teams.

Among the top lottery teams, the Suns are probably the only ones that could possibly pass on Doncic with like a 3rd or 4th pick if he said he wouldn't show up, and even that's doubtful. All other top lottery teams have front offices that are probably in love with Doncic right now.

Talking about workouts and Doncic, it's actually a real possibility that he literally won't have time to do workouts with any of the teams, because the Draft will be held on June 21, which is the same day as Game 4 of the Spanish League Finals. If Real makes the Finals, unless it ends 3-0, he won't be able to do any workouts.

[SportsGuy8]

Even if he was able to do them, why would he? Maybe he would have liked to do them, but I bet his agent(s) would advise him against. Teams actually have lots of tape of him going vs. actual NBA players, + he's proven in a league that's more physical than the NBA (due to the rules).

If anything, any workout could decrease his value since pure athletic abilities aren't his strength. His strengths come into play in actual 5 on 5 games.

[MC3]

Even if he was able to do them, why would he? Maybe he would have liked to do them, but I bet his agent(s) would advise him against. Teams actually have lots of tape of him going vs. actual NBA players, + he's proven in a league that's more physical than the NBA (due to the rules).

If anything, any workout could decrease his value since pure athletic abilities aren't his strength. His strengths come into play in actual 5 on 5 games.

Same. He is guaranteed top pick. And he might not even like going at Atlanta or Sacramento so his agent will advice him to skip them entirely. Last year many top prospects for instance decided to skip combine altogether. I know there was fuss about that.

[SportsGuy8]

Doncic surely isn't going to go against the Kings, though. Not with Divac and Peja there. Plus they have Bogdanovic.

Doncic is part Serbian with lots of Serbian connection, even his favorite basketball team comes from Serbia. His camp is probably going to look at the Kings as one of best possible destinations/scenarios because of it.