PG: Threepeat!

[ZOMG]

Even if Mirotic is really better this year, he won't be allowed to get this many minutes normally when Lauri is back.

As i said in another thread, my hunch is that Niko will continue to start. The team will trot out some excuse, of course - probably "we're controlling Lauri's minutes due to his back" or something like that.

Will be interesting to see what happens.

[ZOMG]

We're too good. Here are some things I'm seeing that are going against our tanking effort:

- The coaching staff isn't playing to lose - they'll give more and more minutes to guys who are producing (Nwaba, Niko, Bobby, etc.) while limiting those who aren't (Zipser, Felicio)

- Niko and Bobby are playing for something. They both know their natural position is crowded, and neither man wants to lose their job to the other guy. I bet you they're also low-key gunning for Lauri's starting job. We'll continue to see these two continue to push themselves every game (i.e. producing).

- Our best defensive players (Nwaba, RoLo, even Niko who have turned into a pretty good defender himself) are pretty adept at scoring. Even Dunn is improving offensively. This results in a lot of playing time for two-way players who aren't only producing on one end of the court (i.e. Wade, Rose, McDermott, Gasol, MCW, Noah, etc.).

- Our PG play is improving. Dunn seems to be trending up despite all his shortcomings, and Grant has been very effective and efficient off the bench.

- We're getting healthy. When the season first started, we didn't have Dunn and Niko, and then Nwaba went down. We had to play the likes of Zipser, Felicio, and Felder who would've ensured you the L. Right now all we're waiting for is LaVine (and your ultimate tank commander CamPayne, of course).

- Fred is getting the team to play his brand of basketball and play hard (most nights anyway). Despite all the losses, there's probably only a handful of games so far where we're completely chucking and looked disinterested. With how stacked some of these teams around the league are (meaning there are more teams without a true superstar), our talent level when fully healthy may not be as bad as you think. Effort alone can net you a few accidental wins against teams that are record-watching, having off-shooting nights, or looking ahead of the schedule (we've had this problem ourselves for years when we were decent). No superstar egos on the team means the young guys are playing the way Fred wants them to play.

- The 3-game winning streak. You give a team of NBA players confidence thinking that they can win it, that's their mentality moving forward.

And I haven't even mentioned Lauri, who seems to be busting out of his rookie wall. Then we also have LaVine coming back who'll eat up all of Zipser's minutes, giving us a bench mob and a pretty solid 10-man rotation.

At this point, the only way to right the tank is by trading our depth (so we can go back to playing Felder, Zipser, and Felicio) for unplayable vets. And pray for close games that force Fred to draw up a play.

Agree with almost everything. Now it's up to the FO to make some serious, hard decisions. Soon. This kind of "we're-sort-of-tanking-but-not-really" can't go on.

[Rerisen]

On Fred, just because the team has won a few games doesn't suddenly mean its 'Hoiball'.

The team's pace over the last 3 games is 94.5, which would be bottom 3 in the NBA.

Hoiball was sold as an up-tempo offense. It's just we are getting our 2nd biggest impact player back from last year, Nwaba has been a big injection of energy and actually efficient role player scoring, and some of the kids are making progress.

[Rerisen]

Even if Mirotic is really better this year, he won't be allowed to get this many minutes normally when Lauri is back.

As i said in another thread, my hunch is that Niko will continue to start. The team will trot out some excuse, of course - probably "we're controlling Lauri's minutes due to his back" or something like that.

Will be interesting to see what happens.

He won't start with the idea to win more games though. He'd be starting for the sake of showcasing and trading him all the faster.

[MC3]

I didnt like yesterday how Dunn was used. We didnt run PnR much and Dunn wasnt floor general he was last couple of games. Where he run offense, use PnR, crashed defenses. We run that share the ball (without having PG). I guess scouting report was out on Dunn and Bulls in general. I dont know was that by design or Celtics took it away.

That's one of reasons why we blown them out. He wasnt terribly inefficent in game 6/14 (42.9%), but he missed all 4 open 3's. Compared to Knicks game where he shot 6/11. But in that game he also had had 5 rebounds, 7 assists and played down stretch and get to FT line.

Yesterday he had 3 rebounds and 4 assists. And that's the difference. You can live with worse efficency from scoring if he is rebounding and assisting at higher rate, going on FT line. Yesterday that wasnt case. It was bit of a stinker.

Could be his fault, but Bulls simply moved ball different way then they did last couple of games. On our fault we suprised Celtics with it.

[molepharmer]

IF the Bulls beat Utah, they will have tied the longest winning streak that last year's team had - 4 games. Not that I'm really rooting for that kind of thing.

[Rerisen]

I didnt like yesterday how Dunn was used. We didnt run PnR much and Dunn wasnt floor general he was last couple of games. Where he run offense, use PnR, crashed defenses. We run that share the ball (without having PG). I guess scouting report was out on Dunn and Bulls in general. I dont know was that by design or Celtics took it away.

That's one of reasons why we blown them out. He wasnt terribly inefficent in game 6/14 (42.9%), but he missed all 4 open 3's. Compared to Knicks game where he shot 6/11. But in that game he also had had 5 rebounds, 7 assists and played down stretch and get to FT line.

Yesterday he had 3 rebounds and 4 assists. And that's the difference. You can live with worse efficency from scoring if he is rebounding and assisting at higher rate, going on FT line. Yesterday that wasnt case.

Could be his fault,but Bulls simply moved ball different way then they did last couple of games.

Dunn not being the floor general was incredibly effective though, so why is that a bad thing?

[MC3]

Dunn not being the floor general was incredibly effective though, so why is that a bad thing?

It's bad thing because Bulls run that kind of offense when Dunn was injured. And offense stalled when scouting report was out. And we settled for shooting 3's behind arc when we had nobody to crash defenses in PnR and making plays. Having competent PG is reason why we won both Hornets games. We dont win those games when scouting report is out that Bulls dont have a guard.

There is fricking reason every team wants have good PG. It was maybe incredibly effective in one game but it isnt something to be counted on in long run. That's why Celtics shat their bed last night. No Kyrie "MVP, Earth is flat" Irving.

[Rerisen]

Dunn not being the floor general was incredibly effective though, so why is that a bad thing?

It's bad thing because Bulls run that kind of offense when Dunn was injured. And offense stalled when scouting report was out. And we settled for shooting 3's behind arc when we had nobody to crash defenses in PnR and making plays. Having competent PG is reason why we won both Hornets games. We dont win those games when scouting report is out that Bulls dont have a guard.

There is fricking reason every team wants have good PG. It was maybe incredibly effective in one game but it isnt something to be counted on in long run.

I think Kris Dunn is pretty far away from a PG that could run a top team though, and might well never be that. Which is different than saying he could be part of a top team in a lesser role.

So I'm fine with the team experimenting in playstyle right now.

[Ccwatercraft]

We're too good. Here are some things I'm seeing that are going against our tanking effort:

- The coaching staff isn't playing to lose - they'll give more and more minutes to guys who are producing (Nwaba, Niko, Bobby, etc.) while limiting those who aren't (Zipser, Felicio)

- Niko and Bobby are playing for something. They both know their natural position is crowded, and neither man wants to lose their job to the other guy. I bet you they're also low-key gunning for Lauri's starting job. We'll continue to see these two continue to push themselves every game (i.e. producing).

- Our best defensive players (Nwaba, RoLo, even Niko who have turned into a pretty good defender himself) are pretty adept at scoring. Even Dunn is improving offensively. This results in a lot of playing time for two-way players who aren't only producing on one end of the court (i.e. Wade, Rose, McDermott, Gasol, MCW, Noah, etc.).

- Our PG play is improving. Dunn seems to be trending up despite all his shortcomings, and Grant has been very effective and efficient off the bench.

- We're getting healthy. When the season first started, we didn't have Dunn and Niko, and then Nwaba went down. We had to play the likes of Zipser, Felicio, and Felder who would've ensured you the L. Right now all we're waiting for is LaVine (and your ultimate tank commander CamPayne, of course).

- Fred is getting the team to play his brand of basketball and play hard (most nights anyway). Despite all the losses, there's probably only a handful of games so far where we're completely chucking and looked disinterested. With how stacked some of these teams around the league are (meaning there are more teams without a true superstar), our talent level when fully healthy may not be as bad as you think. Effort alone can net you a few accidental wins against teams that are record-watching, having off-shooting nights, or looking ahead of the schedule (we've had this problem ourselves for years when we were decent). No superstar egos on the team means the young guys are playing the way Fred wants them to play.

- The 3-game winning streak. You give a team of NBA players confidence thinking that they can win it, that's their mentality moving forward.

And I haven't even mentioned Lauri, who seems to be busting out of his rookie wall. Then we also have LaVine coming back who'll eat up all of Zipser's minutes, giving us a bench mob and a pretty solid 10-man rotation.

At this point, the only way to right the tank is by trading our depth (so we can go back to playing Felder, Zipser, and Felicio) for unplayable vets. And pray for close games that force Fred to draw up a play.

I'm against trading our depth unless we get real value for them, if the idea is trade them for next to nothing, which has been mentioned, i'd prefer they just take some rest days for a sore toe or just a DNP. However If we get value then i'm fine with letting them go.

I'd also like to see some experiments with our 4's playing the 5, as you said, the worst thing that happens is that it doesn't work which is fine, a loss is a good thing, and RoLo might appreciate a day or two off. With Lauri's back issue, this is a good excuse to give him a week off, why not?

[GDRO10]

IF the Bulls beat Utah, they will have tied the longest winning streak that last year's team had - 4 games. Not that I'm really rooting for that kind of thing.

It's a must lose game now. We need Doncic.

[Indomitable]

I mean, he is a great shooter with ridiculous athleticism. Isn't that basically what they said?

I didn't hear them, as I was at the game. But I know how this goes. He'll make a routine play, they will gush. He will mess up, they won't say anything. The viewers get dragged along with that, and then Zach will end up 7-19 on the game, with 4 assists and 4 rebounds and I'll hear how amazing he was.

Happens with every new Bulls player, but since Zach is the one with the biggest rep that we paid the most to get, it's gonna happen the most with him.

At least it's not Wiggins. If we had traded for him I'd be hearing about the greatness of Andrew until my ears fell off, and THAT GUY CANNOT PLAY THIS GAME. Zach, I agree with you, he is a blank slate and could end up being genuinely good.

What is your problem with Wiggins?

[Alcatraz17]

I think just losing in purpose and tanking is bad. players need to develop as well. with those, comes some wins.

I'm not mad we win. But id rather trade players that are older and wont be part of the future... Lopez and holiday...

Im always happy with a win

But if you're gonna threaten 20 wins...have it be with the guys who are going to be here throughout the rebuild..or at least might be.

Bobby and Niko won the game for us...and neither may be here in February...a few more wins changes everything in the bottom 3.

Same for Robin, but to a different/lesser extent..

I am not freaking out yet, but I am feeling more confident in my long time concern....that this team as is...with LaVine back...might not finish bottom 3

I personally don't like Portis, but .. he is young and has potential. why wouldn't he be in the future if he shows improvement?
Although I like Niko, personally, he is 26yo and one year contract only. he can be part of the future but not if he demand a good amount of money on next contract.

this was a great win. Id be mad if we won by one point as id rather lose by 1 lol. not only we beat the best team in the conference but we destroyed them . how can we be upset??

For me its about putting a ceiling on wins. Not about moving a specific player or keeping one (in regards to Niko, Rolo, Bobby)

We know with MORE certainty that Dunn Lauri and Lavine will be here...and I personally love Nwaba. So after that, those 3 are the the ones you can possibly move to ensure not creeping over 20 wins. IMO, moving 2 out the 3 thins out our depth enough to effect the win rate.


Man, I still cant get over the way I'm talking. I was so anti tank...I still hate the concept..but its the position weve been put in. Develop. Play hard. Lose. Clear Cap. Draft. Sign. Improve.

[CoreyVillains]

A lot of us have really jumped the shark. Getting the 7th pick instead of a top 3 pick would be detrimental to our future. Get your top guy this year and then maybe next year we can think about our push to a fast mediocrity. At least then we will have a real solid core to build around instead of an incomplete core that looks one core piece away.

[RastaBull]

Since drafting Lauri I've been wanting to see a front court pairing of him and Niko. I don't see why anyone would be hesitant to this experiment, if it doesn't work, that's fine, we're trying to lose games anyways. I still think Minnesota playing LaVine at the 1 his rookie year, while not good for his rookie year numbers, did help his overall player development.

If Lauri struggles defensively this season at the 5, that's fine. It may help his development for future seasons.

It's really just a win/win to me. If it works - awesome, we have our starting front court. If it doesn't, well it probably means we lost some games, which cool.

Yeah, I'm interested in seeing, and we will for stretches for sure. I actually think it will be quite successful in small stretches and we'll start seeing it even more. I'm expecting it for some close game 4th quarter action when Lopez is in foul trouble or not impacting the matchup.

I'm generally old school liking a real dominate big on defense. But in this landscape, I actually think it's Niko that can do well at the 5 if Lauri is the type of PF next to him. He put on strength, and he has banged against bigs for several years, so he has developed the experience and some IQ that Lauri hasn't had chance. We've also got a lot of softer/stretch 5s now, that I don't think Niko would have a problem with on either end liie Horford, Love, Jocik or KAT .. Or leaner 5s like Capela, Plumlee. I don't think starting Miro and Lauri will work as well, because there are still the match ups he'd get punished on like Jordan, Whiteside, Howard, maybe Valcunias .. But given the right moment in game i think even then he could his own especially with good smart d from Lauri that we've seen thus far

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[JimmyJammer]

Can someone tell me what is wrong with young teams winning? Niko is 26, Portis is 22, Lauri is 20, Dunn is 23, Nwaba is 24, Valentine is 24, LaVine is 22, Grant is 24, Zipser is 23, Felicio is 24,Holliday is 28 and Lopez is 29. They always say that you don't win with young players, but if we can prove that theory wrong, wouldn't it be a great thing? I find it amazing to see fans complaining about winning, especially when you have a young team. Remember, it's a culture we are trying to build.

[MC3]

Can someone tell me what is wrong with young teams winning? Niko is 26, Portis is 22, Lauri is 20, Dunn is 23, Nwaba is 24, Valentine is 24, LaVine is 22, Grant is 24, Zipser is 23, Felicio is 24,Holliday is 28 and Lopez is 29. They always say that you don't win with young players, but if we can prove that theory wrong, wouldn't it be a great thing? I find it amazing to see fans complaining about winning, especially when you have a young team. Remember, it's a culture we are trying to build.

No, it's high talent team we are trying to build. Beside Lauri and maybe Lavine and Dunn there isnt single guy on this roster who is possibly All-Star calibre player. And you need not one, not two, not three, but likely 4 of them to compete. And in between one of them needs to be MVP calibre player. Find role players in FA.

And best way to add high talent is losing games and adding best player college basketball or international basketball can offer. And then you multiple that few times. And then you are set.

[Red8911]

On Fred, just because the team has won a few games doesn't suddenly mean its 'Hoiball'.

The team's pace over the last 3 games is 94.5, which would be bottom 3 in the NBA.

Hoiball was sold as an up-tempo offense. It's just we are getting our 2nd biggest impact player back from last year, Nwaba has been a big injection of energy and actually efficient role player scoring, and some of the kids are making progress.

The word hoiball really needs to stop. 90% of the nba is now playing a similar uptempo style,Hoiberg did not invent anything,in fact he’s actually copying the others. People make it seem like bulls are playing this rare style of basketball and named it hoiball lol. Cmon wake up ppl.

[Warren G]

Pretty sure nobody referred to "Hoiball" other than Rerisen using it derogatorily to make his point about pace.

The team just hung 108 on the best defensive team in the league missing all defensive genius Kyrie Irving a game after dropping 104 and a game after dropping 119 on Charlotte, as the hands down worst offense in the league.

Your rant is for naught, Red

[Ice Man]

What is your problem with Wiggins?

He doesn't defend well, rebound well, pass well, or score efficiently, and the team plays better when he is off the floor. Aside from that, he's alright.