PG: Threepeat!

[ArizonaBullsFan]

League wide negative feelings toward the FO and coach sound more like an agenda driven by people who want to see them all fired, than anything based on actual fact. Bulls fans by and large hate them, so we project that onto the players, onto people around the league, as a way of justifying that hate.

It's perception. It's not agenda. ESPN coaches ranking for example, Fred Hoiberg last in league. Bulls front office 27th in league last year. Tell what you will but league wise this kind of reputation exist outside our organization. Call it hate or not.

And then you have "fleeced", "get garred", "punching" etc. You make your reputation based on your moves and how you run your organization. Bulls are deservingly at bottom of the league. Bulls fans dont hate them because it's cool to hate them. But because they are terrible and not good at their job.

Who made those rankings? And it's these same sportswriters who wrote how badly the Bulls got fleeced by MIN on the Butler trade. What do they have to say now?

Screw their 15 year history, let's look at one year.

When they were a playoff team.

It's easy when the goalposts are on wheels.

[MC3]

Agree. But it will take years of good moves after good moves to again be respectable around the league. So players perception change if they want to come here. And not be "meme" of the league. Where franchises when they want/need assets come on Bulls doorstep to get them

You want to be organization where next MVP free agent says I want to play for Bulls. And I'll sign there, take cut just to play there.

[ImSlower]

I'd bet the mortgage that no HOFers had the disgusting, embarassing stats in their first 25 NBA games that Ball is putting up.

I agree with your post, overall. As for this part, I dunno. Some HOFers came into the league very young. But you might be right, i just don't know how to check without doing a whole lot of work.

Yeah, me either.

Kobe maybe, he was pretty bad his first year. But he was playing in a league with a bunch of grown-ass men who were rookies at 21 or 22, not today's completely different landscape where lots of guys are in their 4th year by 22.

Best I could find in a one minute Google, in 2001 the average age was 28, it's down to 26 now. Might not seem like a lot, but I'm guessing most of us realize that's a pretty damn big difference.

Kobe is vaguely similar, I guess. He was really hyped, and was lackluster that first year - but he was so young. I absolutely loved him then, because I always gravitate to low-minute, exciting up-and-comers (Asik, Butler, now Nwaba. I don't recall, were people calling him a bust? I feel like he had more guys like me thinking he still would become great. Looking at Ball, I definitely think he has some tier 1 skills that could make him a great, but his shot is so broken, and he has the most off-court baggage of any of the young guys in the league.

I'm rambling. I think Ball could be a total bust, which happens plenty with a top 3 pick. You guys are right, all these raw upside or undisciplined young guys coming into the league are making even top 2 picks stressful. We are so lucky to have Lauri showing rotation ability right out of the gate.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

I agree with your post, overall. As for this part, I dunno. Some HOFers came into the league very young. But you might be right, i just don't know how to check without doing a whole lot of work.

Yeah, me either.

Kobe maybe, he was pretty bad his first year. But he was playing in a league with a bunch of grown-ass men who were rookies at 21 or 22, not today's completely different landscape where lots of guys are in their 4th year by 22.

Best I could find in a one minute Google, in 2001 the average age was 28, it's down to 26 now. Might not seem like a lot, but I'm guessing most of us realize that's a pretty damn big difference.

Kobe is vaguely similar, I guess. He was really hyped, and was lackluster that first year - but he was so young. I absolutely loved him then, because I always gravitate to low-minute, exciting up-and-comers (Asik, Butler, now Nwaba. I don't recall, were people calling him a bust? I feel like he had more guys like me thinking he still would become great. Looking at Ball, I definitely think he has some tier 1 skills that could make him a great, but his shot is so broken, and he has the most off-court baggage of any of the young guys in the league.

I'm rambling. I think Ball could be a total bust, which happens plenty with a top 3 pick. You guys are right, all these raw upside or undisciplined young guys coming into the league are making even top 2 picks stressful. We are so lucky to have Lauri showing rotation ability right out of the gate.

Kobe was never called a bust, because HS players weren't drafted back then. He was like the 5th EVER.

Darryl Dawkins
Bill Willoughby
KG

The only ones I can think of off the top of my head before Kobe, there might have been 1 or 2 more.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Reggie Harding. 1962. I was right, Kobe was the fifth.

How much of a crap shoot has the top of the draft become:

Now, the lottery is 80-90% freshmen and 19-year-old foreign players. A sophmore or two. The occasionl, rare Valentine.

Until the 1972-73 season, Freshmen weren't even allowed to play college basketball. They had a Freshman team.

Sorry for all of you whose mind I just blew lol.

[Dresden]

Agree. But it will take years of good moves after good moves to again be respectable around the league. So players perception change if they want to come here. And not be "meme" of the league. Where franchises when they want/need assets come on Bulls doorstep to get them

You want to be organization where next MVP free agent says I want to play for Bulls. And I'll sign there, take cut just to play there.

No it won't. All it will take is to win again, and to have a young team with a lot of promising young talent on it. All of a sudden you will see the attitude about the Bulls and their FO and their coach change.

[Dresden]

Moses Malone. Although he might have played part of one year at a college somewhere before signing with the ABA.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Moses Malone. Although he might have played part of one year at a college somewhere before signing with the ABA.

That's #5 I was thinking of, even I'm not old enough to have heard of a 4th round pick in the 1962 draft!!

(But I'm still technically right, like you said Moses was an ABA pick, not NBA...)

[ArizonaBullsFan]

I'm going to blow some more under-30 minds. I'm guessing most of you have never heard of Bird Collegiate Rule.

Before that, teams could draft players who hadn't even declared for the draft. And kept their rights through the following college season, until the following draft started.

Bird was selected by the Boston Celtics with the sixth overall pick in the 1978 NBA draft. He did not sign with the Celtics immediately; instead, he played out his final season at Indiana State and led the Sycamores to the NCAA title game. Red Auerbach publicly stated that he would not pay Bird more than any Celtic on the current roster, but Bird's agent bluntly told Red that Bird would reject any sub-market offers and simply enter the 1979 NBA Draft instead, where Boston's rights would expire the second the draft began and Bird would have been the likely top pick. After protracted negotiations, Bird inked a five-year, $3.25 million contract with the team, making him the highest paid rookie in league history at the time. Shortly afterwards, NBA draft eligibility rules were changed to prevent teams from drafting players before they were ready to sign, a rule known as the Bird Collegiate Rule.

[Indomitable]

What is your problem with Wiggins?

He doesn't defend well, rebound well, pass well, or score efficiently, and the team plays better when he is off the floor. Aside from that, he's alright.

He is Canadian though and what about the iso score.


Hey I liked Lavine better coming out. Me and Manuel had an argument about who the Bulls should be targeting. I was pro Lavine over the Dougie wss the man squad.

[Dresden]

I'm going to blow some more under-30 minds. I'm guessing most of you have never heard of Bird Collegiate Rule.

Before that, teams could draft players who hadn't even declared for the draft. And kept their rights through the following college season, until the following draft started.

Bird was selected by the Boston Celtics with the sixth overall pick in the 1978 NBA draft. He did not sign with the Celtics immediately; instead, he played out his final season at Indiana State and led the Sycamores to the NCAA title game. Red Auerbach publicly stated that he would not pay Bird more than any Celtic on the current roster, but Bird's agent bluntly told Red that Bird would reject any sub-market offers and simply enter the 1979 NBA Draft instead, where Boston's rights would expire the second the draft began and Bird would have been the likely top pick. After protracted negotiations, Bird inked a five-year, $3.25 million contract with the team, making him the highest paid rookie in league history at the time. Shortly afterwards, NBA draft eligibility rules were changed to prevent teams from drafting players before they were ready to sign, a rule known as the Bird Collegiate Rule.

And that was about the last time that Red Auerbach was able to fleece the rest of the league and get away with it.

[Ice Man]

He is Canadian though and what about the iso score.

Well yes, he is Canadian. My wife has a crush on Justin Trudeau, so there's that. As for WIggins, he needs to step up. Nobody needs a 51% TS% wing, unless the guy is a defensive monster, or does something else very well besides score.

[Indomitable]

He is Canadian though and what about the iso score.

Well yes, he is Canadian. My wife has a crush on Justin Trudeau, so there's that. As for WIggins, he needs to step up. Nobody needs a 51% TS% wing, unless the guy is a defensive monster, or does something else very well besides score.

I was kidding and was not a big fan. He does not look to impose his will other then shooting is his weakness. I hope Lavine gets playing defense matters.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

I'm going to blow some more under-30 minds. I'm guessing most of you have never heard of Bird Collegiate Rule.

Before that, teams could draft players who hadn't even declared for the draft. And kept their rights through the following college season, until the following draft started.

Bird was selected by the Boston Celtics with the sixth overall pick in the 1978 NBA draft. He did not sign with the Celtics immediately; instead, he played out his final season at Indiana State and led the Sycamores to the NCAA title game. Red Auerbach publicly stated that he would not pay Bird more than any Celtic on the current roster, but Bird's agent bluntly told Red that Bird would reject any sub-market offers and simply enter the 1979 NBA Draft instead, where Boston's rights would expire the second the draft began and Bird would have been the likely top pick. After protracted negotiations, Bird inked a five-year, $3.25 million contract with the team, making him the highest paid rookie in league history at the time. Shortly afterwards, NBA draft eligibility rules were changed to prevent teams from drafting players before they were ready to sign, a rule known as the Bird Collegiate Rule.

And that was about the last time that Red Auerbach was able to fleece the rest of the league and get away with it.

Yes, yes it was.

The info I posted, I disagree with the "Bird would have likely been the top pick in 1979". JMSO, I think that Magic Johnson dude still goes ahead of Bird.

[GameBredAPBT]

Wow.....there are seriously so called Bulls fans out there that are into giving money to Jabari freaking Parker? Or saying that it would be a fantasy island scenario if we were somehow able to convince Paul freaking George to sign here? Someone tell me that my chain is being yanked. Unbelievable.

[Ice Man]

Wow.....there are seriously so called Bulls fans out there that are into giving money to Jabari freaking Parker? .

? Jabari was a very good 21 year old player when he went down last year. The two knee surgeries are a huge concern, to be sure, but the guy is a true prospect aside from that.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Not that signing George would be Fantasy Island, just that the only way it would happen is if GarPax took a trip to Fantasy Island.

Reading is amazing, but pretty goddamn useless without comprehension.

But yeah, why would we want an All-NBA, All-Defense SF (the one position we need worse than any) who is just entering his prime, or having just entered it (currently age 27)

2012-13 All-Defensive (2nd)
2012-13 All-NBA (3rd)
2013-14 All-Defensive (1st)
2013-14 All-NBA (3rd)
2015-16 All-Defensive (2nd)
2015-16 All-NBA (3rd)

Who's coming off a season of:
23.7 pts
6.6 reb
3.3 ast
1.6 stl
39.3% 3's (6.6 att/game)
20.2 PER
.587 TS%

Let's suck for 5 years and pray we get a guy this good in the lottery. And wait 3-4 years for him to get that good?

Yeah, who would want this team next year:
PG Dunn 24
SG Lavine 23
SF George 28
PF Lauri 21
C Niko 28? Free Agent?

Plus our 2018 draft pick
Whoever we get with the rest of our cap space
________________________________________
PG Curry 26
SG Klay 24
SF Barnes 22
PF Draymond 24
C Bogut 30

That's the 2015 NBA Champion Warriors

Now I get it, some people just want the Bulls to suck for 3 or 4 years, they don't really want to get a superstar. It's all about the sucking.

I guess some folks don't understand we are already like 3 years into our rebuild, because we already have a recent:

#5 pick (Dunn)
#7 pick (Lauri)
#13 pick (Lavine)

[GameBredAPBT]

....

A guy with 2 ACL tears is a "true prospect"? What? His window to becoming elite, or even borderline elite, has officially closed. His knees are trash. There's no coming back (not to the level that people had him projected at) from 2 ACL tears. The best he can hope for is an average (at best) NBA career. Again, can't believe this even needs to be said.

Paul George is not a quality signing. A 27 years old, who hasn't looked remotely close to what he once was post-leg break, who has big time character issues, who doesn't make guys around him better, who is, in all likelihood, a cancerous personality, is not a quality signing for a team trying to rebuild.

Keep both of those men far away from this Bulls rebuild, and again....I cannot believe this even needs to be said.

[weneeda2guard]

Yea def agree with the above. Not that I think pg13 would want to come here, but if a scenario occurs where pg13 wants to come to the bulls, then you get flexible and abort mission, sign pg13, then work to quickly build around him.

Some players are not worth doing that for, pg13 is def worth doing that for. We.could suck for 10 years and have 10 top 5 picks and still not get a player as good as pg13.

Not to mention if lavine has a break out year and is the next superstar sg that some predict the plan will have to be aborted anyway, otherwise why max out lavine for 4 years simply to tank and suck for that time? Maybe lavine becomes attractive enough where a couple of free agents want to join them.

It's no one way to do this, and you have to be able to improvise.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

You typed out a long post in order to demean another user, featuring blatant insults. Hello better. ~ fleet