The Mirotic thread: New Niko or March come early? Merged

[Warren G]

We have seen 3 years of Niko...that's enough of a sample size. And, we have seen his problems. The last thing the Bulls need is to get enamored with Niko's game. And, it is not like Popovich is coaching the Bulls either to utilize him/mentor him. The Bulls have to accept their reality of what they are doing and how uphill the climb is for them to get back to even as an average level team.

It is not like Niko is a mentor to Lauri either. He is going to suck minutes from him/he has had his own issues with professional attitude and obviously going to look out for himself/stats.

We also saw three years of Butler that didn't portend to the All NBA guy he became, same with the Magic and Oladipo.

If anything, we should be extremely cautious about dumping assets we have because of league tenure, especially watching the league over the past two years.

We don't have to Hinkie it up to just stack draft picks, that method is far from being deemed a success.

[Lauri_Legend]

We have seen 3 years of Niko...that's enough of a sample size. And, we have seen his problems. The last thing the Bulls need is to get enamored with Niko's game. And, it is not like Popovich is coaching the Bulls either to utilize him/mentor him. The Bulls have to accept their reality of what they are doing and how uphill the climb is for them to get back to even as an average level team.

It is not like Niko is a mentor to Lauri either. He is going to suck minutes from him/he has had his own issues with professional attitude and obviously going to look out for himself/stats.

We also saw three years of Butler that didn't portend to the All NBA guy he became, same with the Magic and Oladipo.

If anything, we should be extremely cautious about dumping assets we have because of league tenure, especially watching the league over the past two years.

We don't have to Hinkie it up to just stack draft picks, that method is far from being deemed a success.

Yeah. I see where you're coming from. You don't want to toss him aside for nothing and come to find out he's actually pretty good when he's put in the right situation. That said, you've got to commit to Lauri. Niko off the bench idea is solid, but what then with BoPo? What if he actually has solid potential and we toss BoPo aside for nothing?

[johnnyvann840]

where is Jeremy?


I know you're lurkin bro... just waiting for a couple of more games like this to make an appearance.

[GimmeDat]

I just watched the highlights (missed the game) - despite a lot of people hating on him here, I've never stopped loving the guy.

That said, frustrating that it resulted in a win we probably could have done without, and we're most likely going to have to move him. Let's hope there's a market. Just doesn't fit our window any more.

[rowseyna]

I just watched the highlights (missed the game) - despite a lot of people hating on him here, I've never stopped loving the guy.

That said, frustrating that it resulted in a win we probably could have done without, and we're most likely going to have to move him. Let's hope there's a market. Just doesn't fit our window any more.

I think a 26-year-old (especially one who doesn't rely on athleticism) fits every window.

[Warren G]

We have seen 3 years of Niko...that's enough of a sample size. And, we have seen his problems. The last thing the Bulls need is to get enamored with Niko's game. And, it is not like Popovich is coaching the Bulls either to utilize him/mentor him. The Bulls have to accept their reality of what they are doing and how uphill the climb is for them to get back to even as an average level team.

It is not like Niko is a mentor to Lauri either. He is going to suck minutes from him/he has had his own issues with professional attitude and obviously going to look out for himself/stats.

We also saw three years of Butler that didn't portend to the All NBA guy he became, same with the Magic and Oladipo.

If anything, we should be extremely cautious about dumping assets we have because of league tenure, especially watching the league over the past two years.

We don't have to Hinkie it up to just stack draft picks, that method is far from being deemed a success.

Yeah. I see where you're coming from. You don't want to toss him aside for nothing and come to find out he's actually pretty good when he's put in the right situation. That said, you've got to commit to Lauri. Niko off the bench idea is solid, but what then with BoPo? What if he actually has solid potential and we toss BoPo aside for nothing?

Luckily we don't have to worry about trading Niko until January, so we can afford to wait and see what happens with both players.

Niko has better defense and doesn't consistently blow dunks, I'd rather hold onto him. The hope is both players continue making themselves attractive to other teams, and all it takes is one injury for teams to get desperate.

We can wait and see, we don't need to get impatient after each game, this game is a long one.

[Stratmaster]

Niko showed signs of this type of play from the start. Then the Wade and Butler show turned him into a three point specialist which is not his game.

The strengthening work he did certainly has helped him build on what he had to start with.

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[MC3]

I just watched the highlights (missed the game) - despite a lot of people hating on him here, I've never stopped loving the guy.

That said, frustrating that it resulted in a win we probably could have done without, and we're most likely going to have to move him. Let's hope there's a market. Just doesn't fit our window any more.

Same. I liked him, and I started disliking him more and more because he wasnt guy Bulls needed him to be. Cause he was frustrating player when we tried win and couldnt handle role he was given. And now when we turned the corner he suddenly is playing well for to us win games when we want to lose them.

I want him all best, but I want him out. And we get nice asset for him. It's sad it come to this situation. This will if we trade him likely result to be bad trade for us. Cause he is really nice player. And we wont get nearly enough value for him.

But you can't keep him cause he will get you Hezonja instead Zingis in June. Frustrating...

[GimmeDat]

I just watched the highlights (missed the game) - despite a lot of people hating on him here, I've never stopped loving the guy.

That said, frustrating that it resulted in a win we probably could have done without, and we're most likely going to have to move him. Let's hope there's a market. Just doesn't fit our window any more.

I think a 26-year-old (especially one who doesn't rely on athleticism) fits every window.

We're not going to be peaking as a team again until he's at least 30, and for him to even still be on the team would require re-signing him to long term money which would eat in to our cap flexibility to make in FA down the track. I don't see that happening, especially when they also have a 22 year old PF on his rookie deal playing well (that's not to say I don't prefer Mirotic greatly as a player).

[Stratmaster]

I dunno about that.

OK then, the MCW, who was the key to our team for his first 3 games of last year, which we won. You've been here a long time, you know how these narratives go. They don't often prove to be true.

Except Niko has always had a positive effect when on the floor. Even last season.

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[kingkirk]

I’m not fully convinced on this version of Kris Dunn being real after ¼ of the season being played, so I’m certainly not going to be convinced that this version of Niko is some new player after 3 games, 2 of which he shot well in.

58% of his shots right now are 3-pointers. I have no problem with that because he’s making them, but if he remains at that volume and he starts missing, the tone of this thread changes dramatically.

[JimmyJammer]

I love this new Niko, great intangibles and very confident. Btw, Bobby Portis has been quietly outplaying Lauri, but I don't expect anyone to agree with me. Look up the numbers.

[Lauri_Legend]

I love this new Niko, great intangibles and very confident. Btw, Bobby Portis has been quietly outplaying Lauri, but I don't expect anyone to agree with me. Look up the numbers.

I agree with you. I've noticed the same things. There are games where BoPo is putting up similar numbers playing half the time. But it's just a matter of committing to Lauri over BoPo no matter what.

[ZOMG]

I love this new Niko, great intangibles and very confident. Btw, Bobby Portis has been quietly outplaying Lauri, but I don't expect anyone to agree with me. Look up the numbers.

”Look up the numbers”? Watch the games.

Bobby’s defense is completely horrible. You really think he’s gonna make life difficult for someone like Porzingis even for a minute, like Lauri was able to do at 20 years of age, after playing 20 NBA games? No freaking way.

I can’t believe we’re even discussing this. Why the hell did the Bulls even draft Markkanen if both Niko AND Portis are suddenly so wonderful at the same position??

Bobby Portis is a one-dimensional scorer who gets blocked at the rim in every game. Saying he’s ”outplaying” Lauri is a bad joke.

As for the topic at hand - new Niko is same old Niko. Once things inevitably go south, the old confidence issues will creep back in.

[AKfanatic]

The effort and confidence is what has looked good for Niko during this small sample. If he can keep this up, I’d like to see Lauri/Niko at the C/PF spot for some quality minutes. Both guys are mobile, both rebound well, and both compete on D...add in their offensive games and the two could become a nightmare for most teams.

[drosestruts]

I just watched the highlights (missed the game) - despite a lot of people hating on him here, I've never stopped loving the guy.

That said, frustrating that it resulted in a win we probably could have done without, and we're most likely going to have to move him. Let's hope there's a market. Just doesn't fit our window any more.

Same. I liked him, and I started disliking him more and more because he wasnt guy Bulls needed him to be. Cause he was frustrating player when we tried win and couldnt handle role he was given. And now when we turned the corner he suddenly is playing well for to us win games when we want to lose them.

I want him all best, but I want him out. And we get nice asset for him. It's sad it come to this situation. This will if we trade him likely result to be bad trade for us. Cause he is really nice player. And we wont get nearly enough value for him.

But you can't keep him cause he will get you Hezonja instead Zingis in June. Frustrating...

Every year of Niko's career the Bulls have performed better with him on the court - so if we weren't winning, I'm not sure he's the one to blame.

[chefo]

Actually, he reminds me not of scorching March Niko, but of rookie Niko when everybody got injured and he averaged like 20 points a game, with some abysmal long ball shooting. That Niko was da' bomb because you could see that bigs really struggled to stay with him and he posted smaller guys up. Fred Niko until this year was a 'stretch' 4, who launched 30 foot jumpers just because and did little else.

Glad to see him playing well. He's been a plus defender for a couple of years now and if he can get his mojo back on O, he's actually somebody the Bulls should keep long-term.

[gardenofsound]

Niko needs to be traded.

1) He's a good player. This means he hurts the tank and takes minutes from Lauri. It also means you might be able to get a halfway decent asset for him. I'm not saying a top 10 pick, but a contender may part with their mid-late 1st to get him, without sending the Bulls a **** long-term deal.

2) He's on a (maximum) 2 year deal before hitting UFA. If the Bulls want to keep him and he shows out, he's going to command a large contract, which will prohibit that hopeful point B to point C contract signing when you need it.

3) Sell high. I know the Bulls can't trade him until January, but if he continues to play like this, his value should continue to increase.

The fact that he didn't get a contract offer this past summer is no indication that there isn't interest in him around the league. It's just an indication that teams with the need didn't really have cap room. Trades are more useful in this regard.

[JimmyJammer]

I love this new Niko, great intangibles and very confident. Btw, Bobby Portis has been quietly outplaying Lauri, but I don't expect anyone to agree with me. Look up the numbers.

”Look up the numbers”? Watch the games.

Bobby’s defense is completely horrible. You really think he’s gonna make life difficult for someone like Porzingis even for a minute, like Lauri was able to do at 20 years of age, after playing 20 NBA games? No freaking way.

I can’t believe we’re even discussing this. Why the hell did the Bulls even draft Markkanen if both Niko AND Portis are suddenly so wonderful at the same position??

Bobby Portis is a one-dimensional scorer who gets blocked at the rim in every game. Saying he’s ”outplaying” Lauri is a bad joke.

As for the topic at hand - new Niko is same old Niko. Once things inevitably go south, the old confidence issues will creep back in.

You don't have to be so salty, buddy. The numbers say that Bobby is averaging 12.7ppg, 6.7rebs, 49% fg, 39% 3pt fg in 21 minutes. Lauri is shooting 40% from the field, including 34% from 3pt, 14.7ppg and 8rebs in 31 minutes. Bobby's per 36 minutes are: 20.8ppg, 10.8rebs, 3asst, while Markkanen is at 17.3ppg and 9.5rebs, 1.5 asst. Look, it's fine to be in love with the newest BMW, but facts are facts. Bobby's defense has gradually gotten better too.
You are right, they are 2 years apart, if that matters to you.

[madvillian]

FWIW Lauri is 18th overall in RAPM among PF and Portis is 51st. Portis is ranked 91st (3rd from bottom) in defensive RAPM.

Bobby has a long way to go before he's a net positive. His defense is brutal and you can see that with just the eye test.