Bulls trade for Noah Vonleh

[GrowingHorns]

I like what I see. And i saw a little. I guess when he gets some training with the team, he could be useful. Not to mention there's something in his habitus I really like, can't say what, but there is.

[Axolotl]

From the few minutes against Raptors: he has the physical tools of a player, and looks like a competent rebounder. Also liked the way he spotted an opening in the defence, drove in and finished through contact and a foul for 2+1.

I'd like to see more minutes allocated to him, since that is the only way to see what he might become. He is young, and hasn't had much playtime in his earlier teams. Granted, that may be because he has been bad, and the teams have not detected sufficient upside.

[JohnnyTapwater]

I like him as a rebounder.

...He looked smaller than I expected for some reason. I think he suffers from trying to do too much.

Just rebound, hustle and get garbage points and he's a solid piece... Screw all that ball handling.

[ATRAIN53]

Nice they gave him a few min to get the nerves out and shake off some rust last night.

They seriously want to tank - start the kid a few games down the stretch and let him get some min vs legit starters so we see if he really has IT. Just trotting him out there for garbage min isn't gonna tell us that much in 26 games.

[sco]

I really want to resign him and Nwaba to reasonable deals ($3-$6M per deal). Hope FO is smart and plays them just enough to see them and not enough to up their FA cost.

[Axolotl]

I may be totally off the mark here, but something about Vonleh says "center" to me. Maybe he could play stretch 5 in a small ball type line-up?

[madvillian]

I'd be down for basically benching Holiday and Lopez down the stretch and just playing the backups like Vonleh, Felicio, Valentine etc. Obviously it might ruffle some feathers but these guys know what they got into with Chicago this year and the Bulls have given both Holiday and Lopez plenty of time to showcase themselves.

I may be totally off the mark here, but something about Vonleh says "center" to me. Maybe he could play stretch 5 in a small ball type line-up?

What's his defense like? Bulls need to find a rim protector for their next good team. Doesn't seem like Vonleh is that guy. That said, I think he has some upside and it's worth experimenting over the last 1/3 of the season.

[MrSparkle]

Well, he looked bad but I'd rather play him consistent minutes and see if he develops into any bit of his potential, as opposed to trying to win games with RoLo on a big minute count.. or playing Zipser at PF.

[madvillian]

Well, he looked bad but I'd rather play him consistent minutes and see if he develops into any bit of his potential, as opposed to trying to win games with RoLo on a big minute count.. or playing Zipser at PF.

I don't know why Zipser hasn't been cut or assigned to the G League. He consistently looks like a guy they pulled out of the crowd that happens to be 6-8" and dominates his local rec league.

[GimmeDat]

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1672451

victim of Leonard's contract

I hope he continues to develop for his sake, but it was the right move for Portland.

Chicago has just received the best young (22 and under) rebounder in the league and a solid defender. Noah's lack of initiative or confidence on offense hurts him, but I thought after the All-Star game last season even that was changed for the better. Too bad he was hurt to start the season (actually pre-season). That hurt both him and the team.

....

I hope he gets a chance in Chicago and doesn't let this trade trigger further bouts of low confidence.

Vonleh's offensive side never developed. He always showed flashes of an 18 footer, but never could string anything together consistently that forced Stotts to give him more touches. It's almost as if he never got through the "focus on defense and rebounding" stage that most rookie bigs go through in the NBA. As one of my coaches used to say, "Basketball is cerebral until it becomes instinctual"...I don't think Vonleh could ever get past the cerebral part enough to make a consistent difference on the instinctual part.

He distinguished himself a good defender and an even better rebounder. For one reason or another, the Blazers did not value a role playing rebounder, prefering a tall 3 and D and a possible two way all-star. Thus they gave the Bulls a gift.

Noah had a lot more to give but this staff just couldn't bring it out of him. All the tools in the box, but we couldn't find the key to open it.

The fact the Blazers just parted with an asset to make room for the untradeable contracts of Meyers Leonard and Evan Turner is its own level of sickening

I asked about his position and upside, got this response -

IIRC, Vonleh ended up playing Center in the POs last year quite a bit, with pretty meh results. I can't remember him ever getting significant time there otherwise.

Vonleh is a very good rebounder and has good length, but at 6'9-6'10 and probably 245-50 he's going to struggle against real size at Center. He'll play decent positional D against old school PFs. He has some mobility, but he takes a long time to "gather" which makes it seem like he's always playing a step behind. He doesn't play "quick". Despite his reputation as a "stretch" player he's pretty darn terrible at anything further than a few feet from the basket. But he'll hit one occasionally, or have a spectacular block that'll make you say, "hmmm" as a fan.

The Bulls got a roll playing rebounder in Vonleh. That's likely what he is in the NBA. Think Farried minus the quickness.

I think Vonleh sort of got screwed this year, and was never really given a chance. It seems to me that if you don't shoot 3's, you don't play. A classic PF has no place in Stott's 4 out, 1 in system.

I'm really happy for Vonleh and I think he might make the Blazers look like fools. I can see him fitting in great with Chicago's Baby-Bulls, possibly in the starting lineup next season, complimenting Markannen nicely.

Here are some comments on reddit about him from 8 months ago -

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/6d7qz7/what_happened_to_noah_vonleh/

He got real minutes this year and looked especially good once Nurkic joined the blazers. He played a part in the run at the end of the year to make the playoffs.

He's a high motor, rebounder and screen setter. Defensively he's big, long and can switch on PnR.

Offensively, he scores mainly on putbacks and dunks. He's shown that he has a shot and is the Blazers current answer at the 4 position. He's not asked to shoulder much offensive load so but if he added a3 point shot it'd really help the Blazers' spacing

He's still young and raw and most Blazer. fans are happy to watch him develop

He was fantastic the last ~20-25 games of the season IIRC, great on defense and rebounding (which are the most important things we want out of our 4) but still needs to put everything together. He improved a ton this year and is only 21 so I wouldn't give up on him yet. If he can learn to play like he's pissed off next year he would be a ton better since he still plays too 'nicely' if that makes sense

Turned around his career 2nd half of this year in Portland.

A lot more comments at both links.

-

My opinion is that he's not a natural offensive player, feels a bit slow on that end, but if you're a big and you can board and play defense, there is a spot for you in this league, and as a young player, it's a great foundation to becoming an impact player. Vonleh has all the gritty stuff down pat, all he has to do to become a valued piece in this league is become even an average offensive player.

At 22 years old (that's young than Dunn, Valentine, same as Lavine/Portis), and coming in to the league as a notoriously raw rookie, it's worth holding on to him and seeing if that offensive side of the ball develops. Look how quickly people were giving up on guys like Hezonja, Bender, Dunn, Lyles, and so many other recent draft picks. All young players look like crap until they finally find a way to flick the switch.

For me, Vonleh's swing skill is his shooting. Maybe he's not ready to hoist NBA 3's just yet, but if he can start knocking down the mid-range jumper at least, he'll be a 2 way player. He's shot 75% from the FT line so far this season.

To me, it sounds like he's already a better player than Felicio, and I really hope Felicio doesn't get spoon fed minutes instead of getting this guy an opportunity. He's younger, has way more tools, and has had far less of a chance in this league. Vonleh doesn't sound like a true 5 from Blazers' fans comments, but it definitely sounds like he can play the position, and we're in a position where our priority should just be getting the guys with potential out on the court. He's got a big frame, strong base, long arms and big hands, he should be fine against most C matchups.

If there's one negative thing I would say, is that he doesn't seem like he's built for a fast paced team. But who knows, let's give him a crack. By the end of the season I definitely could see myself caring more about keeping him than guys like Valentine and Grant.

[zzaj]

Blazer fan here, chiming in. In addition to the quotes GimmeDat listed above, I want to mention a couple more things:

1) The reason the Blazers gave up on him was mostly for salary reasons.
2) He has average to below average BBIQ on both sides of the ball.
3) He has had 4 years to figure things out.
4) He started for Portland a good portion of last year and played against other starting PFs...so to say he's not been given minutes or opportunities is completely not true.

I wish him the best for you guys. He's already a plus rebounder. At this stage I think it's a long shot, but if he can increase his BBIQ and the pace at which he plays plus add a David West type 15"> jumpshot he'll be a nice complimentary piece.

[Ayt]

Just imagine Vonleh is beating him out in training camp next October and Bobby sees his minutes are in danger again....



Didn't realize he is a native Liberian. It's kinda like Embiid maybe, guys who see the US and NBA as a haven vs living in a counrty full of turmoil and strife.

Vonleh was born and raised in Massachusetts.

[3noD]

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1672451

victim of Leonard's contract

I hope he continues to develop for his sake, but it was the right move for Portland.

Chicago has just received the best young (22 and under) rebounder in the league and a solid defender. Noah's lack of initiative or confidence on offense hurts him, but I thought after the All-Star game last season even that was changed for the better. Too bad he was hurt to start the season (actually pre-season). That hurt both him and the team.

....

I hope he gets a chance in Chicago and doesn't let this trade trigger further bouts of low confidence.

Vonleh's offensive side never developed. He always showed flashes of an 18 footer, but never could string anything together consistently that forced Stotts to give him more touches. It's almost as if he never got through the "focus on defense and rebounding" stage that most rookie bigs go through in the NBA. As one of my coaches used to say, "Basketball is cerebral until it becomes instinctual"...I don't think Vonleh could ever get past the cerebral part enough to make a consistent difference on the instinctual part.

He distinguished himself a good defender and an even better rebounder. For one reason or another, the Blazers did not value a role playing rebounder, prefering a tall 3 and D and a possible two way all-star. Thus they gave the Bulls a gift.

Noah had a lot more to give but this staff just couldn't bring it out of him. All the tools in the box, but we couldn't find the key to open it.

The fact the Blazers just parted with an asset to make room for the untradeable contracts of Meyers Leonard and Evan Turner is its own level of sickening

I asked about his position and upside, got this response -

IIRC, Vonleh ended up playing Center in the POs last year quite a bit, with pretty meh results. I can't remember him ever getting significant time there otherwise.

Vonleh is a very good rebounder and has good length, but at 6'9-6'10 and probably 245-50 he's going to struggle against real size at Center. He'll play decent positional D against old school PFs. He has some mobility, but he takes a long time to "gather" which makes it seem like he's always playing a step behind. He doesn't play "quick". Despite his reputation as a "stretch" player he's pretty darn terrible at anything further than a few feet from the basket. But he'll hit one occasionally, or have a spectacular block that'll make you say, "hmmm" as a fan.

The Bulls got a roll playing rebounder in Vonleh. That's likely what he is in the NBA. Think Farried minus the quickness.

I think Vonleh sort of got screwed this year, and was never really given a chance. It seems to me that if you don't shoot 3's, you don't play. A classic PF has no place in Stott's 4 out, 1 in system.

I'm really happy for Vonleh and I think he might make the Blazers look like fools. I can see him fitting in great with Chicago's Baby-Bulls, possibly in the starting lineup next season, complimenting Markannen nicely.

Here are some comments on reddit about him from 8 months ago -

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/6d7qz7/what_happened_to_noah_vonleh/

He got real minutes this year and looked especially good once Nurkic joined the blazers. He played a part in the run at the end of the year to make the playoffs.

He's a high motor, rebounder and screen setter. Defensively he's big, long and can switch on PnR.

Offensively, he scores mainly on putbacks and dunks. He's shown that he has a shot and is the Blazers current answer at the 4 position. He's not asked to shoulder much offensive load so but if he added a3 point shot it'd really help the Blazers' spacing

He's still young and raw and most Blazer. fans are happy to watch him develop

He was fantastic the last ~20-25 games of the season IIRC, great on defense and rebounding (which are the most important things we want out of our 4) but still needs to put everything together. He improved a ton this year and is only 21 so I wouldn't give up on him yet. If he can learn to play like he's pissed off next year he would be a ton better since he still plays too 'nicely' if that makes sense

Turned around his career 2nd half of this year in Portland.

A lot more comments at both links.

-

My opinion is that he's not a natural offensive player, feels a bit slow on that end, but if you're a big and you can board and play defense, there is a spot for you in this league, and as a young player, it's a great foundation to becoming an impact player. Vonleh has all the gritty stuff down pat, all he has to do to become a valued piece in this league is become even an average offensive player.

At 22 years old (that's young than Dunn, Valentine, same as Lavine/Portis), and coming in to the league as a notoriously raw rookie, it's worth holding on to him and seeing if that offensive side of the ball develops. Look how quickly people were giving up on guys like Hezonja, Bender, Dunn, Lyles, and so many other recent draft picks. All young players look like crap until they finally find a way to flick the switch.

For me, Vonleh's swing skill is his shooting. Maybe he's not ready to hoist NBA 3's just yet, but if he can start knocking down the mid-range jumper at least, he'll be a 2 way player. He's shot 75% from the FT line so far this season.

To me, it sounds like he's already a better player than Felicio, and I really hope Felicio doesn't get spoon fed minutes instead of getting this guy an opportunity. He's younger, has way more tools, and has had far less of a chance in this league. Vonleh doesn't sound like a true 5 from Blazers' fans comments, but it definitely sounds like he can play the position, and we're in a position where our priority should just be getting the guys with potential out on the court. He's got a big frame, strong base, long arms and big hands, he should be fine against most C matchups.

If there's one negative thing I would say, is that he doesn't seem like he's built for a fast paced team. But who knows, let's give him a crack. By the end of the season I definitely could see myself caring more about keeping him than guys like Valentine and Grant.

Smart take. Comments would at the very least suggest we take a good look at him. I agree that he’ll likely take Felicio’s minutes, more than Bobby.

My one disagreement is on your comment on not fitting well with a fast pace team. Why don’t you think so? He looks like a really good athlete and was moving well up and down the court.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[sco]

Yeah, post ASB, I'm hoping for:

C: Felicio 20, Bobby 10, Noah 18
PF: Lauri 30, Bobby 18

[erlim]

Nice they gave him a few min to get the nerves out and shake off some rust last night.

They seriously want to tank - start the kid a few games down the stretch and let him get some min vs legit starters so we see if he really has IT. Just trotting him out there for garbage min isn't gonna tell us that much in 26 games.

You make a great point. By all indications, we are prepping to give Cam Payne another serious look, even though his floor is low, and he's consistently failed with opportunities we've given him. Why not just give Vonleh the same treatment? If we works himself into being a solid contributing rotation guy; you already look smart for the trade. If, by some Christmas Day miracle, he somehow realizes his upside from when he was drafted, we look like Albert Einstein genius status.

[Evil_Headband]

we are prepping to give Cam Payne another serious look, even though his floor is low, and he's consistently failed with opportunities we've given him.

Did you really mean low floor? A rebuilding team should be more concerned about ceilings than floors.

[Axolotl]

we are prepping to give Cam Payne another serious look, even though his floor is low, and he's consistently failed with opportunities we've given him.

Did you really mean low floor? A rebuilding team should be more concerned about ceilings than floors.

His ceiling is a good G-league player. There were some promising signs on his rookie season, but he has regressed since.

He should be absolutely dominating the G-league. He is not. That said, I'm fine with having him driving the tank, he should excel in that role.

The Bulls obviously know that Payne is not NBA-quality, and just as obviously they can't say that.

[sco]

we are prepping to give Cam Payne another serious look, even though his floor is low, and he's consistently failed with opportunities we've given him.

Did you really mean low floor? A rebuilding team should be more concerned about ceilings than floors.

His ceiling is a good G-league player. There were some promising signs on his rookie season, but he has regressed since.

He should be absolutely dominating the G-league. He is not. That said, I'm fine with having him driving the tank, he should excel in that role.

The Bulls obviously know that Payne is not NBA-quality, and just as obviously they can't say that.

Yeah. Think you nailed it.

That said, there's a 1% chance that he's got game but injuries have been masking it. Maybe that in combo with recent humbling has caused some maturing. There is really no risk here, so benching Grant for rest-of-season to find out doesn't bother me.

[erlim]

Did you really mean low floor? A rebuilding team should be more concerned about ceilings than floors.

His ceiling is a good G-league player. There were some promising signs on his rookie season, but he has regressed since.

He should be absolutely dominating the G-league. He is not. That said, I'm fine with having him driving the tank, he should excel in that role.

The Bulls obviously know that Payne is not NBA-quality, and just as obviously they can't say that.

Yeah. Think you nailed it.

That said, there's a 1% chance that he's got game but injuries have been masking it. Maybe that in combo with recent humbling has caused some maturing. There is really no risk here, so benching Grant for rest-of-season to find out doesn't bother me.

I seem to recall him bringing up the ball in summer league, and---unable to efficiently manage putting one foot in front of the other, he keeled over and slammed his face into the ground. I think the dude has nowhere to go but up.

[Evil_Headband]

we are prepping to give Cam Payne another serious look, even though his floor is low, and he's consistently failed with opportunities we've given him.

Did you really mean low floor? A rebuilding team should be more concerned about ceilings than floors.

His ceiling is a good G-league player. There were some promising signs on his rookie season, but he has regressed since.

He should be absolutely dominating the G-league. He is not. That said, I'm fine with having him driving the tank, he should excel in that role.

The Bulls obviously know that Payne is not NBA-quality, and just as obviously they can't say that.

For what it's worth, I think the Bulls still have hopes for Payne or they wouldn't have picked up his option. I haven't followed his G-League performance other than seeing a highlight clip of his first game that was posted here. Poor performance might be able to be excused my rustiness. I'm certainly skeptical that he'll be decent but I see no reason not be keep an open mind. He certainly had a decent ceiling when he was drafted.