Is Jimmy Butler the most selfish in the NBA?

[DuckIII]

Someone on reddit posted why players cannot just give up an All-Star spot to someone else so easily.

But yeah keep being fake mad about a game you care so little about that you supposedly never watch it.

As I said before, that still isn’t a defense. If he wasn’t hurt and couldn’t lie (no way in hell Silver makes Butler submit to a physical, what a joke), then he should have played.

Its indefensible. The best you guys can come up with is that he was hung over or that it’s a “meaningless” game (an utterly laughable premise given that it’s used to determine HOF credentials and frequently the subject of player bonuses, not to mention the subjective value it holds to players and fans).

This is one of those times everyone should just agree that it was wrong. You all know it’s wrong either to the players who could have gone instead or to the fans who actually care about the game and were looking forward to seeing Butler play (some of whom may have spent outrageous amounts of money to attend in person, including young children). The fact that I don’t personally care about the Allstar game is irrelevent (that whole empathy thing again, which startlingly is a foreign concept to quite a few of you evidently).

You all know what he did was wrong, some of you just won’t say it for whatever really, really weird reason you have.

And yeah, I am “mad” about it. I’m not some Butler hater. I defended him as a player and personality throughout. But this lends credibility to the theory that Butler has become an attitude problem. It’s just a dick move. There is no credible counter-argument that isn’t just excuse making.

Now you are changing your argument. Here you are debating whether its wrong and defensible. That's quite different than your original argument of being the most selfish prick in the NBA, of which you have little to no evidence to stand on, which leads people to believe you are baiting.

It’s hyperbolic of course. Do I have to treat everyone like they have the intellect of a 6 year old? Would everyone prefer the presumption of something better? I would. Can we have some license here in titling a thread? I even quickly said it simply puts him on the list.

Moreover, it’s a question. Everyone can answer it for themselves. But the evidence has been mounting over the years. It’s yet another poor look for Buckets (among many great ones).

[nitetrain8603]

As usual, I spent zero seconds of my life watching the NBA Allstar game. And then woke up to find out about this:



What a load of horse ****.

This is next level primadonna stuff. Has an allstar even been this much of a selfish ass hole before, ever? I don't remember anyone having ever taken a allstar spot away from another player and then refusing to play in the game.

I've seen guys play token minutes lots of times (and for a variety of reasons, some of them admirable), but that's different. This is taking the honor and potentially once in a lifetime opportunity away from another player and then pissing on it. Its like holding out a loaf of bread in front of a starving person and then throwing it in the ocean.

Knowing Butler, we (or more specifically Lou Williams) won't be getting an apology for this.

I'm a Butler fan. Even though I wanted him traded for team building purposes, I backed him up amidst all of the claims that he'd gone Hollywood and turned into a selfish teammate and player, was a locker room cancer, etc. But an action like this speaks volumes about a person's character and selfishness.

Maybe it was you or maybe it was someone else, but I remember popular opinion around here (could've sworn it was you) saying you don't want your players bothering with the Olympics. The all-star game is no different than the Olympics other than it means even less than that. With that said, if one feels that way about the Olympics, then they should have no problem with a player pulling this for the All Star Game.

On the flip side, I do think this is a pretty prick move by him. I love Jimmy. I love how much he's earned for himself and continues to dedicate himself to the game overall. This, however, was uncalled for. He could've stated last week that he didn't want to play in it. I suspect he didn't want to play due to other issues (rumors about him being hungover is one of them), but either which way, bad move for him. He better deliver for the TWolves with a mentality like this. It's a shame because I looked forward to him guarding LeBron, KD, and others. I really think he could've helped his team win.

I can't disagree more with the bolded part.

ASG is one game, 20 minutes at the most of a glorified intrasquad scrimmage, in that very little serious defense is played.

The Olympics are a summer long commitment, and even ignoring the practices and scrimmages before the games, between pool play and the elimination round you wind up playing something like 9 games in 2 weeks. Serious, competitive games, against players who are representing their country, making them more physical and leaving guys more susceptible to injury.

Not here in the US, because we dominated for so long and still would win the gold without much trouble if we sent our best 12, but the rest of the world takes the Olympics very, very seriously. Especially when they play the US.

And it's not like Americans are completely apathetic when it comes to the Olympics, we did start sending our pros once the rest of the world caught up to and pretty much passed our college kids.

I can't speak for Duck (well I guess I could), but if someone is anti-Olympics but not anti-ASG because of the physical toll, I can completely understand that.

The Olympics you are playing for your country, you are playing for Gold. It's a tournament that you said yourself, everyone takes seriously - well except Americans these days.

The ASG has no bearing on who wins a championship, who hoists a trophy, who gets homecourt advantage, etc. It is in the literal sense, an exhibition game. The Olympics are not. If you consider the Olympics exhibition games, then I don't see how you wouldn't consider regular season games or even NBA playoff games - exhibition.

[nitetrain8603]

Playing in the Olympics isn't part of the job description for an NBA player. Playing in the all star game is. It comes with the big contracts, fame and fortune of being an NBA star.

Playing in the ASG isn't either. You could avoid the all-star game your whole career if you wanted to, regardless of how good you are. In the end, I'm a fan of basketball. Whether it be 3-on-3 street tournaments, the Olympics, the ASG, NBA, college, etc. I can't see how people say, "Oh, LeBron is playing in the Olympics, I don't care for him right now. Oh, LeBron is playing for the Cavs, I care about him now." Or better yet, Jordan is playing in College, I don't care for College BBall. Oh, Jordan plays for the Bulls now, I care about the games he's playing for us now. To me, it's always been all or nothing.

[molepharmer]

One thing I've learned from this thread is that if I ever have "minor" surgery, I won't get much empathy around here.

[Leslie Forman]

Someone on reddit posted why players cannot just give up an All-Star spot to someone else so easily.

But yeah keep being fake mad about a game you care so little about that you supposedly never watch it.

As I said before, that still isn’t a defense. If he wasn’t hurt and couldn’t lie (no way in hell Silver makes Butler submit to a physical, what a joke), then he should have played.

Its indefensible. The best you guys can come up with is that he was hung over or that it’s a “meaningless” game (an utterly laughable premise given that it’s used to determine HOF credentials and frequently the subject of player bonuses, not to mention the subjective value it holds to players and fans).

This is one of those times everyone should just agree that it was wrong. You all know it’s wrong either to the players who could have gone instead or to the fans who actually care about the game and were looking forward to seeing Butler play (some of whom may have spent outrageous amounts of money to attend in person, including young children). The fact that I don’t personally care about the Allstar game is irrelevent (that whole empathy thing again, which startlingly is a foreign concept to quite a few of you evidently).

You all know what he did was wrong, some of you just won’t say it for whatever really, really weird reason you have.

And yeah, I am “mad” about it. I’m not some Butler hater. I defended him as a player and personality throughout. But this lends credibility to the theory that Butler has become an attitude problem. It’s just a dick move. There is no credible counter-argument that isn’t just excuse making.

Why in the everloving F'n hell would Adam Silver allow NBA stars to just sit out All-Star games for the hell of it, when people complain about stars resting in meaningless regular season games in March? Why would he set a precedent like that? What kind of moron of a commissioner would think that's a good idea?

You're just digging for something to feel outraged about. Nobody except you (and Lou Williams, who still wouldn't have made the team) gives a rat's ass. Jimmy did this the quietest way possible without making a big fuss about it. If he had asked the commissioner to sit out, which would have been all over the media, I'm sure you'd have found some way to feign outrage about that.

[JordansBulls]

Yeah this is (Please Use More Appropriate Word) to be honest he acts like he won like 3 all star mvps or something already.

[johnnyvann840]

Nobody even mentioned the actual "all stars" who made the team who Jimmy gave up his minutes to. How is that selfish? You can look at this from the standpoint of a Lou Williams or Nikola Jokic, who didn't make the team, but probably should have, and say "If Jimmy knew he wasn't going to play, he should have said so, so that somebody could take his spot and another player can be an all star too". So, essentially, we are saying JB is selfish because he gave his time in the spotlight to players who actually made the team and didn't make room for somebody who didn't make the team? Sounds fair.

Combine that with the fact that he said he was hurt and tired and wanted to focus on the Wolves down the stretch and not an exhibition game of showtime ball. It all sounds the OPPOSITE of selfish to me. Sounds like somebody who has his priorities in the right place.

Nonody is blaming him for sitting out the game. He’s well within his right to not play in this game...however, why the hell wouldn’t he have just let someone else take his spot and he could’ve sat out all the same?

He can’t “rest focus on the TWolves” while being away from the game? Or hell, he doesn’t even have to be away from the game, he could’ve sat right next to Kevin Love and DeMarcus Cousins!

This is a selfish thing, there’s no doubt about it. He didn’t want to see someone else get an All Star selection so he decided it was better that he DNP himself than let some other player have the time of his life and achieve the marvelous accomplishments of being an All Star.

This was explained earlier. Butler would have likely had to have given up his performance bonus for making the all star team. That could be anywhere from $25k the losing teams player share or a half a million or much more depending the incentive clause. Most players have making the all star team as a bonus situation in their contracts. Klomp already said it isn't just so cut and dry as giving up your spot. You CANNOT EVEN DO THAT even if you want to. Read the CBA on it.

[League Circles]

Haha you probably aren't allowed to give up your spot cause if you did, 90% of guys would skip it to go to the bahamas.

[johnnyvann840]

^^^^

nba players can't skip the all star game unless they miss the previous regular season game ,

a david stern era rule designed to make stars show up.

jimmy didn't want to play and he didn't, the nba essentially forced him there.

[kyrv]

^^^^

nba players can't skip the all star game unless they miss the previous regular season game ,

a david stern era rule designed to make stars show up.

jimmy didn't want to play and he didn't, the nba essentially forced him there.

Well seems he did not take someone's spot. My bad Jimmy!

[ArizonaBullsFan]

One thing I've learned from this thread is that if I ever have "minor" surgery, I won't get much empathy around here.

I've had 6 "minor" surgeries, 4 in the last 24 months, so believe me when I tell you the old saying is 100% true:

"Minor" surgery is when someone else is the one getting cut open.

[Stratmaster]

Playing in the Olympics isn't part of the job description for an NBA player. Playing in the all star game is. It comes with the big contracts, fame and fortune of being an NBA star.

Playing in the ASG isn't either. You could avoid the all-star game your whole career if you wanted to, regardless of how good you are. In the end, I'm a fan of basketball. Whether it be 3-on-3 street tournaments, the Olympics, the ASG, NBA, college, etc. I can't see how people say, "Oh, LeBron is playing in the Olympics, I don't care for him right now. Oh, LeBron is playing for the Cavs, I care about him now." Or better yet, Jordan is playing in College, I don't care for College BBall. Oh, Jordan plays for the Bulls now, I care about the games he's playing for us now. To me, it's always been all or nothing.

What player has avoided the ASG their whole career despite being a top 20 player in the league for multiple seasons?

I love basketball too, which is why I hate tanking, sitting players, and the ASG. The ASG doesn't even resemble real basketball. Players put out more effort in playground pick-up games. I agree with you on the rest though. As long as it is competitive basketball II love watching it. I don't see many college games simply because I watch every Bulls game (that may have to change now), a Twolves game here and there, now a NO game here and there etc.

If I start following college basketball like I did years ago you will likely find me buried under the house with my wife claiming I went on a business trip and never came back.

[RememberLu]

One thing I've learned from this thread is that if I ever have "minor" surgery, I won't get much empathy around here.

I've had 6 "minor" surgeries, 4 in the last 24 months, so believe me when I tell you the old saying is 100% true:

"Minor" surgery is when someone else is the one getting cut open.

Well there's also such a thing as non invasive outpatient surgery which I think can properly be called minor

[Axolotl]

One thing I've learned from this thread is that if I ever have "minor" surgery, I won't get much empathy around here.

I've had 6 "minor" surgeries, 4 in the last 24 months, so believe me when I tell you the old saying is 100% true:

"Minor" surgery is when someone else is the one getting cut open.

Well there's also such a thing as non invasive outpatient surgery which I think can properly be called minor

I had a meniscus operation. Local anesthesia, two small cuts to the knee, maybe half an hour of operating inside the knee, a couple of stitches and ho home. In the evening I was carrying a dishwasher. I'd call that minor surgery.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

One thing I've learned from this thread is that if I ever have "minor" surgery, I won't get much empathy around here.

I've had 6 "minor" surgeries, 4 in the last 24 months, so believe me when I tell you the old saying is 100% true:

"Minor" surgery is when someone else is the one getting cut open.

Well there's also such a thing as non invasive outpatient surgery which I think can properly be called minor

There are a very few types of procedures that can be done completely without cutting the patient, but for the most part non-invasive procedures only eliminate the need for exploratory surgery (so far). Things like a CAT Scan or an MRI (without contrast) eliminate the need to make an exploratory incision.

This is the best definition I could find of non-invasive surgery in a quick search:

https://www.insightec.com/us/news-events/blog/2017/non-invasive-surgery-the-evolution-of-a-revolution

Focused ultrasound waves safely pass through tissue and bone. Only where the waves converge is the tissue heated to temperatures high enough to cause thermal ablation, destroying the target cells. MR imaging not only enables high resolution visualization of patient anatomy, but also provides continuous real-time thermometry.

========================================

Of course I'm no doctor, but I'm almost positive there is no way to do 5 of the "minor" surgeries I've had done without an incision:

3 hernia repairs, there was no way to sew up the hernia (twice) or implant mesh (this last one) without an incision.

Liver biopsy, obviously they have to cut you open to get the piece of liver out of the body.

Torn labrum in my shoulder, I don't see how they could re-attach the labrum without cutting me to put in the stitches or sutures.

I had scar tissue removed from a nerve and a tendon after stabbing myself in the palm of my hand, now that one it sounds like they could do with the method I linked to, but I'm not sure. They were just destroying the scar tissue, sounds like they could do that nowadays with the forced ultrasound waves.

But thanks for the education, you are certainly right that there are now procedures that can be done without an incision, when those procedures would have required an incision in the not-too-distant past.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

I've had 6 "minor" surgeries, 4 in the last 24 months, so believe me when I tell you the old saying is 100% true:

"Minor" surgery is when someone else is the one getting cut open.

Well there's also such a thing as non invasive outpatient surgery which I think can properly be called minor

I had a meniscus operation. Local anesthesia, two small cuts to the knee, maybe half an hour of operating inside the knee, a couple of stitches and ho home. In the evening I was carrying a dishwasher. I'd call that minor surgery.

I have a feeling your surgeon didn't want you carrying a dishwasher that night.

When I had the liver biopsy, it was only 4 small cuts to the midsection, and I went and umpired an American Legion game that afternoon/evening. (On the bases, not the plate, I ain't that stupid or greedy). Certainly classified as minor surgery, but I was still sore for a few days, even after taking a Percocet or 2.

But bad things CAN happen... a friend of mine was a roofer, twisted his knee one day, and had to go in for basically the same procedure you had. But the doctor screwed up and cut the main artery going down his leg, and he wound up in the OR for 12 hours with a very major knee surgery.

He was lucky that it happened at work and got a settlement of close to 1/2 mil, but it just goes to show you what can happen in a worse-case scenario during a "minor" surgery.

[Axolotl]

I had a meniscus operation. Local anesthesia, two small cuts to the knee, maybe half an hour of operating inside the knee, a couple of stitches and ho home. In the evening I was carrying a dishwasher. I'd call that minor surgery.

I have a feeling your surgeon didn't want you carrying a dishwasher that night.

Pretty sure he didn't... But there was so little pain that I thought what the heck, I'll just carry the thing now. Wasn't a smart move, the knee swelled to nearly twice the size of the other knee. No permanent harm, but wouldn't do that again.

[RememberLu]

I had a meniscus operation. Local anesthesia, two small cuts to the knee, maybe half an hour of operating inside the knee, a couple of stitches and ho home. In the evening I was carrying a dishwasher. I'd call that minor surgery.

I have a feeling your surgeon didn't want you carrying a dishwasher that night.

Pretty sure he didn't... But there was so little pain that I thought what the heck, I'll just carry the thing now. Wasn't a smart move, the knee swelled to nearly twice the size of the other knee. No permanent harm, but wouldn't do that again.

Lesson learned: always follow doctor's orders. Unless it's Dr. Kevorkian or Dr. Mengele

[jacoby1us]

Long story short he should have faked an injury and allowed another deserving player to get the vote. He could have sat on the sideline like Kevin Love in street clothes. It never ceases to amaze me of how some people make selfish decisions. If he did not want to fake an injury like most players normally do, he could have just played a few minutes here and there and called it a night. I certainly understand he is physically tired but you have an obligation to do your job which is play professional basketball in an "exhibition game" where defense is not allowed.

[MadGrinch]

Long story short he should have faked an injury and allowed another deserving player to get the vote. He could have sat on the sideline like Kevin Love in street clothes. It never ceases to amaze me of how some people make selfish decisions. If he did not want to fake an injury like most players normally do, he could have just played a few minutes here and there and called it a night. I certainly understand he is physically tired but you have an obligation to do your job which is play professional basketball in an "exhibition game" where defense is not allowed.

faking an injury doesn't work unless you missed your last regular season game . i am pretty sure the team would get fined and butler would be suspended if he took your advice w/o missing a game.

jimmy had to be there