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OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread

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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1201 » by MeloRoseNoah » Sun Sep 8, 2019 2:44 pm

Hopefully, Trubisky proves that this game is an anomaly rather than a standard for him.

We really need to shore up our right side of the offensive line in this upcoming draft. Kyle Long is done and Massie is mediocre at best. They also need to find a stud TE as well. The 2021 draft is the earliest time that we will draft a QB in the first two rounds.
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1202 » by Red Larrivee » Sun Sep 8, 2019 3:16 pm

molepharmer wrote:I believe Mitch's and the offensive performance was more an anomaly than what we'll see going forward. Trubisky only had three games all last year where his QBR was below 70. Their lowest rushing attempts in a game last year was 15, once (next lowest was 22 att). They only had two games last year with 10 or more penalties and only a couple of games where the defense did not create a turnover. Thursday's night fiasco was a completely one off performance from last year, and I don't believe the Bears, nor Trubisky, got worse during the off-season.


On the surface, Mitch had a solid 2018: 24td/12int, 66.6 completion%, 95.4 passer rating, 72.8 QBR, 7.4 yards/att.

But, how much of that is bolstered by one-read offense? How much of that is built on Trubisky going through his reads and making accurate passes downfield? Can he beat teams from the pocket? Can he throw players open? How quickly can he read and anticipate what opposing defenses will do?

From what we see in the games, Trubisky doesn't look like someone who will become one of the better passing quarterbacks in the league. He's still really raw in the pocket. It showed last year and that's why this game was concerning. It simply carried over.
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Re: OT: Bears trade for Khalil Mack 

Post#1203 » by RedBulls23 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 3:58 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:
RedBulls23 wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:
Right now, the chances of Trubisky becoming an elite or near-elite QB look slim to none. I'll say 2% tops.

The likeliest range of outcomes go from Blake Bortles to Alex Smith-ish. Unfortunately, that range isn't anything you'd want to pay significant long-term money for and it's not a blueprint to winning a SB.

If Mitch doesn't become arguably a Top 10 QB, I would definitely be looking for a replacement after his 4th year.

I don't think Alex Smith should be compared to Blake Bortles. Smith isn't elite, but he is really good.

A QB like Smith gets you to the Superbowl with a defense like the Bears have, and he played really well in this exact same offense. Those Cheifs teams issue was awful defense.


I'm dropping Bortles as the absolute downside and Smith as the absolute upside. Right now, I think that's Mitch's range of outcomes. Alex Smith as an outcome would be fine, but historically QB's like him aren't a blueprint to a SB.

Here's an interesting stat: 41 of the 53 Super Bowls have been won by current, future, or fringe HOF QBs. That's about a 77% rate. That's meaningful for the league right now where QBs are getting paid a big percentage of the cap, where it makes it tougher to keep a team together for an extended period.

Here's another: Of the remaining 12 Super Bowls, 7 were won by non-HOF caliber QBs going against a team with a non-HOF caliber QB. So, these teams got very, very lucky in their matchup.

So, while it is possible to win a SB with an Alex Smith-level QB and this defense, if we really want to win one, we have to eventually luck into a great QB. Obviously that's easier said than done, but I think the NFL shows us that committing a huge perentage of the cap to QBs who aren't usually won't end well.
Even if Trubisky became Alex Smith, I would not give him the money he'll want.

Yeah, it's definitely easier to win with a franchise QB. Certainly not debating that.

I think you can win with Alex Smith as long as your QB is making Alex Smith money which is a lot less than star QBs are making. It's about 13 million less a year. That's a huge difference.

Right now Mitch isn't anywhere near the player Alex Smith is, but if he was Bears would look a lot better on offense and people would feel really confident about their chances at a superbowl. Look at the last healthy season he had 4042 yards, 26 TDs, and 5 INT and the poise and ability to make the right plays/reads and play out of the pocket.

Honestly, the best comp for the Bears could win would be with this defense is first couple years of Russell Wilson and Payton Manning last season (he wasn't close to being elite that year). He was relegated to being a game manager, but he was much more poised than mitch and didn't make fundamental mistakes. Just didn't have the arm strength anymore.
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1204 » by RedBulls23 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 4:18 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:
molepharmer wrote:I believe Mitch's and the offensive performance was more an anomaly than what we'll see going forward. Trubisky only had three games all last year where his QBR was below 70. Their lowest rushing attempts in a game last year was 15, once (next lowest was 22 att). They only had two games last year with 10 or more penalties and only a couple of games where the defense did not create a turnover. Thursday's night fiasco was a completely one off performance from last year, and I don't believe the Bears, nor Trubisky, got worse during the off-season.


On the surface, Mitch had a solid 2018: 24td/12int, 66.6 completion%, 95.4 passer rating, 72.8 QBR, 7.4 yards/att.

But, how much of that is bolstered by one-read offense? How much of that is built on Trubisky going through his reads and making accurate passes downfield? Can he beat teams from the pocket? Can he throw players open? How quickly can he read and anticipate what opposing defenses will do?

From what we see in the games, Trubisky doesn't look like someone who will become one of the better passing quarterbacks in the league. He's still really raw in the pocket. It showed last year and that's why this game was concerning. It simply carried over.

Mitch's QBR was bolstered last year due to his ability to run for big yards. I think his passing QBR was middle of the pack along with the rest of his numbers.
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1205 » by DorO » Sun Sep 8, 2019 4:52 pm

Horrible show by Trubisky, much has to change in his game.
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1206 » by micromonkey » Sun Sep 8, 2019 5:39 pm

Red probably has a fair read on Mitch

I’m in the The buddy Ryan-trade him for a six pack doesn’t even have to be cold camp

It was a bad trade up from the gun and I see nothing to indicate he’ll ever have even top 1/2 passing skill. He has no vision, no read, I don’t see any elite aspect of his game at all.

I’d put lots of RPO and have him rush as much as possible-I’m not concerned about his future-as there should be none with the bears

Use him up like grease while he’s young and has decent mobility-then dump him. Any Journeyman QB or ex-patriot clipboard holder will likely be as good or better.

That said I think the coach deserves about 80% of the blame for playcalling.

If we have a kicker worse than last year-is rather know in game 1. Try and Kick the 51 yarder, find out now.
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1207 » by MeloRoseNoah » Sun Sep 8, 2019 6:00 pm

This is a performance league. For an offensive guru, Matt Nagy has been a bust in term of rejuvenating this offense. If I didn't know any better, I would think that Nagy is a defensive guru instead.

Matt Nagy will not get another chance with a different QB. His fate and Trubisky are tied together. We don't draft a QB in the upcoming draft. But, if the disappointment continues this season and next season, a fresh QB / head coach / GM will be needed.

We have the best defense in the NFL that's being wasted on bums right now. Our talent is looking very tired right now with Trubisky being more of a bust rather than a playmaker. He looks like complete trash last year. I didn't see any command of the offense from our offensive leader. In fact, he looks like he's starting his first NFL game as a rookie. We made a ton of silly mistakes and it starts at the top, meaning Nagy and Trubisky.

This game will be the last stinker for this season or they both can pack their packs. The performance was unacceptable.
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1208 » by nomorezorro » Sun Sep 8, 2019 6:49 pm

jacksonville's sixth-round rookie backup looking better than mitch

(i know the chiefs defense sucks but still)
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Re: OT: Bears trade for Khalil Mack 

Post#1209 » by Eddy_JukeZ » Sun Sep 8, 2019 8:10 pm

RedBulls23 wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:
RedBulls23 wrote:I don't think Alex Smith should be compared to Blake Bortles. Smith isn't elite, but he is really good.

A QB like Smith gets you to the Superbowl with a defense like the Bears have, and he played really well in this exact same offense. Those Cheifs teams issue was awful defense.


I'm dropping Bortles as the absolute downside and Smith as the absolute upside. Right now, I think that's Mitch's range of outcomes. Alex Smith as an outcome would be fine, but historically QB's like him aren't a blueprint to a SB.

Here's an interesting stat: 41 of the 53 Super Bowls have been won by current, future, or fringe HOF QBs. That's about a 77% rate. That's meaningful for the league right now where QBs are getting paid a big percentage of the cap, where it makes it tougher to keep a team together for an extended period.

Here's another: Of the remaining 12 Super Bowls, 7 were won by non-HOF caliber QBs going against a team with a non-HOF caliber QB. So, these teams got very, very lucky in their matchup.

So, while it is possible to win a SB with an Alex Smith-level QB and this defense, if we really want to win one, we have to eventually luck into a great QB. Obviously that's easier said than done, but I think the NFL shows us that committing a huge perentage of the cap to QBs who aren't usually won't end well.
Even if Trubisky became Alex Smith, I would not give him the money he'll want.

Yeah, it's definitely easier to win with a franchise QB. Never debated that.

I think you can win with Alex Smith as long as your QB is making Alex Smith money which is a lot less than star QBs are making. It's about 13 million less a year. That's a huge difference.

Right now Mitch isn't anywhere near the player Alex Smith is, but if he was Bears would look a lot better on offense and people would feel really confident about their chances at a superbowl. Look at the last healthy season he had 4042 yards, 26 TDs, and 5 INT and the poise and ability to make the right plays/reads and play out of the pocket.

Honestly, the best comp for the Bears could win would be with this defense is first couple years of Russell Wilson and Payton Manning last season (he wasn't close to being elite that year). He was relegated to being a game manager, but he was much more poised than mitch and didn't make fundamental mistakes. Just didn't have the adm strength anymore.


Wilson is a better comp.

Peyton was really AWFUL in his last season though. Threw more ints than tds.
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1210 » by Dominater » Sun Sep 8, 2019 10:09 pm

Pat mahomes apologizing for his ONE bad throw. We would be seeing a dynasty here if Pace had gotten that pick right. Instead, of the 3 top QB's in that calss he takes by far the worst one. Hell, even with Watson this team might have won it last year
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1211 » by P.C. » Sun Sep 8, 2019 11:11 pm

Dominater wrote:Pat mahomes apologizing for his ONE bad throw. We would be seeing a dynasty here if Pace had gotten that pick right. Instead, of the 3 top QB's in that calss he takes by far the worst one. Hell, even with Watson this team might have won it last year


I feel like we have to examine the pick through a racial justice lens too. Ryan Pace who is just about the most suburban person I've ever seen decided the Bears needed to give up two third round picks and a fourth round pick to draft a player who is looking to be a franchise-killer, when there was a generational talent on the board.

Mahomes's pre-draft profile on NFL.com is problematic to say the least -- basically all code for "he is black." The profile noted that Mahome's "[w]illingness to default to playground style appears to limit his ability to get into a consistent rhythm" and that he's going to have to be "coachable" to be a special quarterback. **** that noise. I'm just about done giving the league and the franchise the benefit of the doubt in these scenarios. It doesn't feel like the most accurate approach to take.

The Bears quarterback situation is starting to feel a lot like the Bulls's coaching situation. There is no smoking gun that identifies a discriminatory approach, but the franchise just keeps anointing underqualified white dudes and at some point you have to call a spade a spade.
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1212 » by Eddy_JukeZ » Mon Sep 9, 2019 2:10 am

Dominater wrote:Pat mahomes apologizing for his ONE bad throw. We would be seeing a dynasty here if Pace had gotten that pick right. Instead, of the 3 top QB's in that calss he takes by far the worst one. Hell, even with Watson this team might have won it last year


Man if we had Mahomes.

I think that will constantly bite us for the next 5-10 years.

We took the worst QB from the 1st round.
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1213 » by the ultimates » Mon Sep 9, 2019 2:54 am

P.C. wrote:
Dominater wrote:Pat mahomes apologizing for his ONE bad throw. We would be seeing a dynasty here if Pace had gotten that pick right. Instead, of the 3 top QB's in that calss he takes by far the worst one. Hell, even with Watson this team might have won it last year


I feel like we have to examine the pick through a racial justice lens too. Ryan Pace who is just about the most suburban person I've ever seen decided the Bears needed to give up two third round picks and a fourth round pick to draft a player who is looking to be a franchise-killer, when there was a generational talent on the board.

Mahomes's pre-draft profile on NFL.com is problematic to say the least -- basically all code for "he is black." The profile noted that Mahome's "[w]illingness to default to playground style appears to limit his ability to get into a consistent rhythm" and that he's going to have to be "coachable" to be a special quarterback. **** that noise. I'm just about done giving the league and the franchise the benefit of the doubt in these scenarios. It doesn't feel like the most accurate approach to take.

The Bears quarterback situation is starting to feel a lot like the Bulls's coaching situation. There is no smoking gun that identifies a discriminatory approach, but the franchise just keeps anointing underqualified white dudes and at some point you have to call a spade a spade.


How does that read he is black? The draft comparison is to that of Brett Favre and Jay Cutler, Favre was the ultimate gambler and gunslinger. Take a look at Mahomes and the film from college the vast majority of his big plays came off-script. Another thing is while people accuse Mitch or being a one read qb the Air Raid offense really only has one or two key reads at the most. It looks complicated because the field is always littered with receivers spread out. So show me where you are calling a spade a spade again.
Losing to get high draft picks and hoping they turn into franchise players is not some next level, genius move. That's what teams want to happen in any rebuild/tank or whatever you want to market it as.
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1214 » by P.C. » Mon Sep 9, 2019 3:27 am

the ultimates wrote:
P.C. wrote:
Dominater wrote:Pat mahomes apologizing for his ONE bad throw. We would be seeing a dynasty here if Pace had gotten that pick right. Instead, of the 3 top QB's in that calss he takes by far the worst one. Hell, even with Watson this team might have won it last year


I feel like we have to examine the pick through a racial justice lens too. Ryan Pace who is just about the most suburban person I've ever seen decided the Bears needed to give up two third round picks and a fourth round pick to draft a player who is looking to be a franchise-killer, when there was a generational talent on the board.

Mahomes's pre-draft profile on NFL.com is problematic to say the least -- basically all code for "he is black." The profile noted that Mahome's "[w]illingness to default to playground style appears to limit his ability to get into a consistent rhythm" and that he's going to have to be "coachable" to be a special quarterback. **** that noise. I'm just about done giving the league and the franchise the benefit of the doubt in these scenarios. It doesn't feel like the most accurate approach to take.

The Bears quarterback situation is starting to feel a lot like the Bulls's coaching situation. There is no smoking gun that identifies a discriminatory approach, but the franchise just keeps anointing underqualified white dudes and at some point you have to call a spade a spade.


How does that read he is black? The draft comparison is to that of Brett Favre and Jay Cutler, Favre was the ultimate gambler and gunslinger. Take a look at Mahomes and the film from college the vast majority of his big plays came off-script. Another thing is while people accuse Mitch or being a one read qb the Air Raid offense really only has one or two key reads at the most. It looks complicated because the field is always littered with receivers spread out. So show me where you are calling a spade a spade again.


On draft night, after providing multiple assurances that Mike Glennon was still the starter (who was another totally qualified white dude who was anointed the starter, btw), Ryan Pace said he traded two third round picks and a fourth, to draft Mitch Trabisky because of the following:

His accuracy jumps out right away; his ability to process the whole field; he's very athletic and can extend a play; and one thing you'll notice is that he has the ability to move around and still keep his eyes down field still looking for open targets, instead of just ducking the ball and wanting to run. Very good on third-down. Very good completion percentage with pressure in his face. Just a lot of traits that he has that translate to the NFL game.


I don't recognize that description in Mitch Trubisky. Meanwhile, while we don't have the Bear's scouting report on Mahomes we know that franchise thought that Trubisky was significantly more likely to succeed, and the NFL's own website was saying that Mahomes needed to advance past street ball and remain coachable.
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1215 » by Payt10 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 3:30 am

I wish we could exist in an alternate reality where Ryan Pace chose Patrick Mahomes instead of Trubisky for his quarterback. Oh, sweet mercy, how dominant would that team be?

It's becoming clearer that Mitch is easily the worst of the 3 QB's taken in the 1st round of his draft. He's just such a limited passer. He doesn't see the field well at all, and he has not progressed beyond a 1 read quarterback since his rookie season. His arm is pedestrian, and his deep ball accuracy is still not very good.

I would like to see Nagy get him involved more outside the pocket. Allow him to use his legs since that is about the only consistently good thing he does at quarterback. Run the damn ball. Trubisky shouldn't be throwing the ball 45 times in a game where they score 3 points while it never went beyond a 1 possession game.

Next week is going to be an even tougher challenge against a better defense on the road. I am not confident the Bears will be able to score more than 3 points on offense without turnovers from the D. Luckily, the Broncos have Joe Flacco as their quarterback and not Aaron Rodgers. Having said that, the Broncos are one of the toughest teams in the league to beat in their building early in the season. They cannot afford to go 0-2 with the schedule they have coming up. Their season could conceivably be on the line in week 3 against Washington if they end up losing again.
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1216 » by AKfanatic » Mon Sep 9, 2019 3:57 am

^
As a Chiefs fan, I don’t like your alternate reality at all.

After an old Montana, an Elvis Grbac, Steve Deberg, Steve Bono, Matt Cassell... it’s nice to have a stud QB on a franchise that still reminisces of Len Dawson.

Don’t get me wrong, Rich Gannon, Trent Green, and Alex Smith had some fun seasons... but the Chiefs have been desperate for a QB for as long as I’ve been a fan. It’s nice to finally have one.
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1217 » by the ultimates » Mon Sep 9, 2019 4:09 am

P.C. wrote:
the ultimates wrote:
P.C. wrote:
I feel like we have to examine the pick through a racial justice lens too. Ryan Pace who is just about the most suburban person I've ever seen decided the Bears needed to give up two third round picks and a fourth round pick to draft a player who is looking to be a franchise-killer, when there was a generational talent on the board.

Mahomes's pre-draft profile on NFL.com is problematic to say the least -- basically all code for "he is black." The profile noted that Mahome's "[w]illingness to default to playground style appears to limit his ability to get into a consistent rhythm" and that he's going to have to be "coachable" to be a special quarterback. **** that noise. I'm just about done giving the league and the franchise the benefit of the doubt in these scenarios. It doesn't feel like the most accurate approach to take.

The Bears quarterback situation is starting to feel a lot like the Bulls's coaching situation. There is no smoking gun that identifies a discriminatory approach, but the franchise just keeps anointing underqualified white dudes and at some point you have to call a spade a spade.


How does that read he is black? The draft comparison is to that of Brett Favre and Jay Cutler, Favre was the ultimate gambler and gunslinger. Take a look at Mahomes and the film from college the vast majority of his big plays came off-script. Another thing is while people accuse Mitch or being a one read qb the Air Raid offense really only has one or two key reads at the most. It looks complicated because the field is always littered with receivers spread out. So show me where you are calling a spade a spade again.


On draft night, after providing multiple assurances that Mike Glennon was still the starter (who was another totally qualified white dude who was anointed the starter, btw), Ryan Pace said he traded two third round picks and a fourth, to draft Mitch Trabisky because of the following:

His accuracy jumps out right away; his ability to process the whole field; he's very athletic and can extend a play; and one thing you'll notice is that he has the ability to move around and still keep his eyes down field still looking for open targets, instead of just ducking the ball and wanting to run. Very good on third-down. Very good completion percentage with pressure in his face. Just a lot of traits that he has that translate to the NFL game.


I don't recognize that description in Mitch Trubisky. Meanwhile, while we don't have the Bear's scouting report on Mahomes we know that franchise thought that Trubisky was significantly more likely to succeed, and the NFL's own website was saying that Mahomes needed to advance past street ball and remain coachable.


Name me all of these quarterbacks who were available and qualified to start for the Bears again? Glennon did start and was bad so should the Bears have not started Trubisky since he was the future of the franchise? Trubisky was bad but the season isn't over after one game.

If you turn on the college tape those are the things Mitch did well. It's up to Mitch and Nagy to bring that out of him on a consistent basis. Player development is rarely a straight ascent to the top it's filled with peaks and valleys.

This is what I don't understand you flat out say we don't have the Bears scouting report on Mahomes but you use an NFL.com scouting report to insinuate some kind of racial bias on the Bears part despite the fact that Mahome's is compared to two white players.
Losing to get high draft picks and hoping they turn into franchise players is not some next level, genius move. That's what teams want to happen in any rebuild/tank or whatever you want to market it as.
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1218 » by RedBulls23 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 4:31 am

AKfanatic wrote:^
As a Chiefs fan, I don’t like your alternate reality at all.

After an old Montana, an Elvis Grbac, Steve Deberg, Steve Bono, Matt Cassell... it’s nice to have a stud QB on a franchise that still reminisces of Len Dawson.

Don’t get me wrong, Rich Gannon, Trent Green, and Alex Smith had some fun seasons... but the Chiefs have been desperate for a QB for as long as I’ve been a fan. It’s nice to finally have one.

Haha, bears haven't even come close to having a QB as good as these guys. Not since Sid Luckman.
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1219 » by AKfanatic » Mon Sep 9, 2019 5:16 am

RedBulls23 wrote:
AKfanatic wrote:^
As a Chiefs fan, I don’t like your alternate reality at all.

After an old Montana, an Elvis Grbac, Steve Deberg, Steve Bono, Matt Cassell... it’s nice to have a stud QB on a franchise that still reminisces of Len Dawson.

Don’t get me wrong, Rich Gannon, Trent Green, and Alex Smith had some fun seasons... but the Chiefs have been desperate for a QB for as long as I’ve been a fan. It’s nice to finally have one.

Haha, bears haven't even come close to having a QB as good as these guys. Not since Sid Luckman.


Yeah the bears have had a rough go, they’ve been my 2nd team since the early 80’s. I was so happy when they won it all...was playing the hell outta the Super Bowl Shuffle....

Rich Gannon’s end killed me, the Chiefs chose wrong and let him go and it was so obvious at the time.

I’m greedy... my Royals have won a championship, well a couple in my time, the Bulls obviously rocked, now I need my Chiefs to put on a show
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Re: OT: Bears 2018 & 2019 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1220 » by Dominater » Mon Sep 9, 2019 5:28 am

RedBulls23 wrote:
AKfanatic wrote:^
As a Chiefs fan, I don’t like your alternate reality at all.

After an old Montana, an Elvis Grbac, Steve Deberg, Steve Bono, Matt Cassell... it’s nice to have a stud QB on a franchise that still reminisces of Len Dawson.

Don’t get me wrong, Rich Gannon, Trent Green, and Alex Smith had some fun seasons... but the Chiefs have been desperate for a QB for as long as I’ve been a fan. It’s nice to finally have one.

Haha, bears haven't even come close to having a QB as good as these guys. Not since Sid Luckman.

Haha. Yea thats the sad thing about us peasant Bear fans. We would kill for an Alex Smith right now. And with KC version Trent green, Bears would be going to the Superbowl. Those chiefs teams with green under center were elite offenses. Problem is kind like right now, their defense sucks. I remember watching thstz chiefs/colts playoff game that featured zero punts!
Didn't like the Coby White pick. Preferred Rui. Now go out and make me look stupid Coby!

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