City of Chicago

[bigworld2017]

so I guess it's a question of priorities. taxes vs what you get for those taxes and the kind of society you want to be a part of. hot weather vs 4 distinct seasons (one of which is too damn long). high school football vs high school...education

In fairness it's not just "taxes" as if it's some isolated economic detail. It's the entire material standard of living that is vastly different. the housing quality for the money is just night and day with some place like Chicago let alone obviously New York or Los Angeles. A lot of people who haven't travel that much outside of large older City don't have a great perspective on what people get in this country overall for their real estate dollar. You can find rather questionable houses in Chicago for $500,000 and rather questionable Condos for $250,000. In the vast majority of the country those dollar amounts will buy you really excellent housing. Now the things you mention do have a lot of appeal for me which is why I live where I do and pay what I do for housing but it's really not something to gloss over in my opinion. A place like Indiannapolis also seriously has like half the cost of housing in Chicago if not less.

Another factor on where to live is unfortunately the finances of the State you wish to live in. Illinois is in deep crap financially. State employee pensions are massively underfunded, and this is after the longest bull market in stocks in history. It's going to look so much worse if we have a stock market correction. Right now EVERY taxpayer in Illinois would have to cough up a check for about $51,000 to to meet the shortfalls. And after this last election Pritzker and Madigan are going to change the income tax structure to make it more "progressive". So expect a big tax increase if you have a decent income. The sad thing is that a tax increase will not really bring in that much more money in the long run because it will cause more tax flight to low tax states. You can see this with Connecticut and New Jersey. Connecticut is in just as bad shape as Illinois, mostly because of all the high earners who relocated to Florida:

Illinois’ debt per taxpayer worse than during Great Recession despite national growth
POSTED 12:50 PM, SEPTEMBER 25, 2018,

CHICAGO, (Illinois News Network) — States are putting taxpayers on the hook for more and more debt, with Illinois among the state’s with highest tax burden per taxpayer in the nation, according to the latest report from public finance watchdog Truth In Accounting.

Despite the improving national economy, some states are in worse shape now than they were shortly after the end of the Great Recession. Truth In Accounting’s ninth Fiscal State of the States report reviews states’ comprehensive annual financial reports (CAFR) for the overall financial condition for all 50 states. From there, TIA offers up a letter grade for each state, from “A” to “F,” where Illinois lands.

“Based on our grading methodology, three states received A’s, seven received B’s, 12 received C’s, 18 received D’s, and 10 states received failing grades,” The report said.

Illinois was the third-worst state in debt per taxpayer at $50,800. That’s $400 more than the previous year’s report. Only Connecticut, at $53,400 debt per taxpayer, and New Jersey with $61,400 debt per taxpayer, were worse than Illinois.

Truth In Accounting considers Illinois one of five Sinkhole States that don’t have enough assets to cover their debt.

“Illinois only has $28.8 billion of assets available to pay bills totaling $244.9 billion,” according to the report.

The other four Sinkhole States were Massachusetts, Kentucky, Connecticut and New Jersey.

At the other end of the spectrum were the five Sunshine States, with Alaska leading the country with a per-taxpayer surplus of $56,500. The other were North Dakota ($24,900 surplus per taxpayer), Wyoming ($19,600), Utah ($4,400) and South Dakota ($3,100).

TIA Research Director Bill Bergman said some states – like Illinois – are in worse shape than they were shortly after the Great Recession.

“Given that we’ve had a recovery since then, and a significant one in the stock market, the fact that Illinois’ financial condition has worsened since 2009 is even more of a concern,” he said.

Illinois keeps getting worse, Bergman said, with a per taxpayer debt liability of $29,000 in 2009 ballooning to $50,800 in TIA’s most recent report.

[Truebiscuit]

I live in the suburbs, and don't have great experiences in the city myself.

Strike 1: Back in grade school, the school I attended went on a trip to the museum of science and industry, as I was sitting in a bathroom stall a bunch of kids from another school tossed toilet paper over the stall on me. While yelling racial slurs.

Strike 2: In college my friends and I went to a bar. Some guy hit on a friends girlfriend and when he stood up , the guy smashed a bottle on the counter, and slashed his face and scarred him for life.

Strike 3: A friend I met in college was actually shot in the leg at a Chicago party, his girl friend was killed in the same shooting incident, Him and his brother both got away by running.

Strike 4: A friend and I while walking between bars downtown got jumped and beat down for no reason.

Strike 5. I was driving to the city with friends, and we accidentally cut a guy off, He pulled up beside the car and pointed a gun at us.

I live less than 25 minutes away, and really have no reason to go there unless I have to.

Where the hell in the city were you? I've lived in Chicago for the past 10+ years and have had NOTHING near this type of experience.

[Susan]

The traffic in Austin is bad, there is no doubt about it. But not as bad as the Chicagoland area...I don't commute since I work from home. But you don't get on major highways and arterials during the two rush "hours". Outside of the rush hours I can get downtown from my South Austin home in 20 minutes, that's about 15 miles. And it takes me 8-10 minutes just to get to the expressway. So if you avoid the busiest periods (7 Am to 9 AM and 3:30 PM to 6:30 PM) you are usually OK unless there is a bad accident or something. I lived in Chicago for 34 years. Drove all but 16 of those years. And believe me the traffic in Chicago is much, much worse. The Stevenson, the Dan Ryan, the Kennedy. All parking lots during rush hours. I added 10 years to my life moving down here from Chicago. So much less day to day aggravations.

Just spent the week in Austin (I live here in Chicago) and I'd say that the traffic is worse in Austin considering the size/scope of the city. Chicago is so much bigger and more complex so it can feel worse but Austin is just growing way too quickly.

Same story for avoiding the busiest periods in Chicago. If I leave at 9:20AM to head out to the burbs, I'm there in 25-30 minutes with no traffic at all.

[Ccwatercraft]

Love Chicago great world class city but personally I couldn't live there. I did enough upper Midwest winters to last a lifetime.

amen. I ran from the cold (and taxes) to semi-rural florida and i'm so happy I did. I only go back for weddings and funerals. heading up soon for a bears game and not looking forward to freezing my tail off.

[League Circles]

The traffic in Austin is bad, there is no doubt about it. But not as bad as the Chicagoland area...I don't commute since I work from home. But you don't get on major highways and arterials during the two rush "hours". Outside of the rush hours I can get downtown from my South Austin home in 20 minutes, that's about 15 miles. And it takes me 8-10 minutes just to get to the expressway. So if you avoid the busiest periods (7 Am to 9 AM and 3:30 PM to 6:30 PM) you are usually OK unless there is a bad accident or something. I lived in Chicago for 34 years. Drove all but 16 of those years. And believe me the traffic in Chicago is much, much worse. The Stevenson, the Dan Ryan, the Kennedy. All parking lots during rush hours. I added 10 years to my life moving down here from Chicago. So much less day to day aggravations.

Just spent the week in Austin (I live here in Chicago) and I'd say that the traffic is worse in Austin considering the size/scope of the city. Chicago is so much bigger and more complex so it can feel worse but Austin is just growing way too quickly.

Same story for avoiding the busiest periods in Chicago. If I leave at 9:20AM to head out to the burbs, I'm there in 25-30 minutes with no traffic at all.

True about traffic but most people can't choose to go at the lowest traffic times. Today I'll head from Highland Park to the loop at about 430. It will take me well over an hour. When I drive back at like 11 pm it'll take me 25 minutes. I only go to the city for events though not commuting.

[madvillian]

Love Chicago great world class city but personally I couldn't live there. I did enough upper Midwest winters to last a lifetime.

amen. I ran from the cold (and taxes) to semi-rural florida and i'm so happy I did. I only go back for weddings and funerals. heading up soon for a bears game and not looking forward to freezing my tail off.

my uncle moved from the north burbs of chicago to this private little horse farming community outside Sarasota (not everybody owns them but it started that way) and he likes it a lot better. He got a lot more bang for his buck with his mortgage down there. Quality of life is a lot better. He's got a pool and **** now and a pretty big yard.

[transplant]

Born in Chicago. Live in Chicago. Will die in Chicago.

All of the negatives noted are fair.

But it's home.

[bigworld2017]

Born in Chicago. Live in Chicago. Will die in Chicago.

All of the negatives noted are fair.

But it's home.

Hopefully of old age and not in a drive by shooting or car jacking.

[McBulls]

I’ve lived in many places in the US, Europe and Japan.

Every place has it’s good points and bad points. The precise area you reside in in a city matters a lot.
If you have kids, the schools matter a lot. If you work, the ease and cost of commuting matter a lot.
Obviously the cost of living matters a lot, depending on your relative wealth and income.
Crime rate matters. Weather matters. Taxes matter. The ability to peacefully walk and bike near your residence matters.
... etc., etc,. Etc.

Personally, I have always insisted on living within walking distance of my place of work. My guess is that I drove or rode mass transit less than 5000 miles per year (excluding vacations and business flights) for 50 working years. I carefully evaluated the living options before accepting a job. I walked to work in Detroit, Paris, Munich, Manhattan, and Chicago. I carefully considered the neighborhoods I would live in if I accepted jobs in many other cities I considered moving to: Galveston, Portland, Dallas, Atanta, Berlin, Durham, Charleston, Bronx, Charlottesville, Pittsburg, New Haven, Louisville, Rochester, Burlington, Bethesda, Baltimore... et al. Insisting on elimination of wasting a significant fraction of your life and income on commuting makes comparisons a little simpler.

If you work in a place like Manhatten or Paris, it will cost a lot to walk to work. But that said, the experience is not bad — you just downsize the size of your living space accordingly. Let’s face it, even a small family can live comfortably in a two bedroom apt. In a good neighborhood.

The unmatchable asset Chicago has is the public lakefronts on Lake Michigan. No other city has anything like it in my experience.
In the summer, you can walk, bike, swim and surf on the public lakeshore. In the spring and fall the lakeshore is a beautiful experience not to be missed. In the winter the icy shore is worth walking by from time to time.

Chicago features a nice array of public parks, like most other cities, but it also is surrounded by a forest preserve worth the occasional visit. It has first rate public zoos that compare not unfavorably to San Diego’s famous zoo. It has one of the world’s best symphony orchestras, many outstanding restaurants, live theater that rivals most other major major cities in quality and quantity, museums that IMO rival those of any other major world city in quality, outstanding Universities, and a multiethnic dynamism that is remarkably stimulating.

I admit that the town is colder than I would like in the Winter. But global warming is rapidly dooming the quality of life in many warmer cities — particularly those near the ocean.

All-in-all, I would pick Charlottesville VA, Amsterdam, NC triangle and Vancouver over Chicago. But Chicago ain’t bad.

[kurtatx]

Born in Chicago. Live in Chicago. Will die in Chicago.

All of the negatives noted are fair.

But it's home.

I moved to Austin for work/wife 8 years ago and I miss Chicago every day. It will always be home to me.

[2018C3]

I received several comments on this last post of mine. I'm not able to PM yet so I will try and post answers here.

Strike 1: Back in grade school the school I attended a trip to the museum of science and industry, as I was sitting in a bathroom stall a bunch of kids from another school tossed toilet paper over the stall on me.

I went to the bathroom, and Kids from another School tossed wet toilet paper over the stalls.

Strike 2: In college my friends and I went to a bar. Some guy hit on a friends girlfriend and when he stood up , the guy smashed a bottle on the counter, and slashed his face and scarred him for life.

If I remember correctly the bar was called Kabom, or something like that, I can not remember the neighborhood.

Strike 3: A friend I met in college was actually shot in the leg at a Chicago party, his girl friend was killed in the same shooting incident, Him and his brother both got away by running.

I met this guy when I was 24, and studying a 2nd major. My college at the time housed students in various apartment complexes. He was not a student. but played for the minor league White Soxs, and lived in the same building. We became close enough that I was invited to his wedding, but have since lost touch. This Story was shared with me over 20 years ago

Strike 4: A friend and I while walking between bars downtown got jumped and beat down for no reason.

To be honest I was pretty drunk at the time and do not remember all the details, But we were walking in what I considered a common area. One of the bars we visited that night used to shoot osters mixed with vodka down tubes mixed with liquor from a 2nd level floor. (That was there thing). I can not remember the bars name but it was very popular in the day. (Maybe Someone who was in that scene in the late 90's can help remember). Keep in mind this was about 20 years ago.

Strike 5. I was driving to the city with friends, and we accidentally cut a guy off, He pulled up beside the car and pointed a gun at us.

I take I-88 to the city, This happened somewhere around I-88 and 294.

I live less than 25 minutes away, and really have no reason to go there unless I have to.

In the last 10 years I have only been in the city a handful of times. In this time period I have not had any problems, Its just not a place I choose to go to any more. I think I hit maybe three bulls games. 2 bears games, and met someone who bought something on e-bay. I also fish the piers late at night, but when in season during those times I'm surrounded by a group of friends and also other fisherman. I can not remember the last time I went to a bar or club in Chicago. I have been out of that scene for a long time.

The thing is, I grew up in the suburbs and never experienced any of these issues locally. My brother and Sister shared a house for several years about a mile away, and they did not lock there doors for over 8 years, and never had a problem. (I always told them they were crazy).

I have lived in suburbs all my life, and just had my second vandalism indecent. About 12 years ago someone smashed my Halloween pumpkin. Last week someone went into my back yard and cut my cloths line. (Probably High school kids who take a short cut home from the bus stop though the yard as it took place between 2:00 - 4:00).

[bigworld2017]

I’ve lived in many places in the US, Europe and Japan.

I admit that the town is colder than I would like in the Winter. But global warming is rapidly dooming the quality of life in many warmer cities — particularly those near the ocean.

All-in-all, I would pick Charlottesville VA, Amsterdam, NC triangle and Vancouver over Chicago. But Chicago ain’t bad[/quote]

We too have lived in multiple places. We tend to move to up and coming cities and then leave when they prove to be too popular (and getting too expensive.) We left Chicago for Portland, Oregon in the late 1980s. Portland then was a nice sleepy little city with gorgeous views, relatively little traffic and cheap housing prices. By the time we left in 2003 it had gotten really popular, particularly with transplanted Californians. Traffic was much worse and house prices had risen dramatically. We made out OK. Went back to Chicago for 3 years but it just wasn't the same for us. I had been away from those brutal winters for over a decade. The housing prices were sky high and rising. The hassle of the city, and the taxes and other costs, just did not outweigh what we enjoyed about the city. So we left for Austin, which was a growing city but still had a quirky, bohemian feel about it. Now almost 13 years later it has just grown beyond its infrastructure, housing prices are through the roof and my taxes have doubled in 10 years. Getting to be time to hit the ejection button.

Two places are currently on our list. We've visited both multiple times. They are Asheville, NC and Fayetteville, Arkansas. Asheville is a little bigger, an more expensive. But it's close to a lot of great state and National Parks, the ocean, etc. It has culture and some of the other amenities you'd expect in a nice small city. Fayetteville, AR is starting to get on a lot of top 10 small city lists. It's smaller than Asheville but the real estate prices are enticingly low. Taxes are comparatively low. Quality of life is very high. The University of Arkansas is in Fayetteville. There is "Wal-Mart" International Airport north of town. Arkansas has a multitude of nice State Parks. Four seasons without the 5 month brutality of a Chicago winter. There is a great restaurant scene and the college supports many good bars and music venues for entertainment.

For me it comes down to quality of life relative to the overall cost of living. And that's a personal decision for everyone. And we evolve. In my 20's I never thought I'd every leave Chicago. Until I got old enough and married and we looked at real estate prices. Now at my age I can't envision ever going back. The tax vs debt time bomb is going to detonate in Illinois, Cook County and Chicago within a few years. This recent latest property tax increase in Chicago is just the tip of the iceberg. Illinois has been mismanaged for decades. It is probably the most poorly governed and managed State in America. They are beyond the capacity of the taxpayers to fix. It's going to get ugly. Very ugly.

[moorhosj]

For someone who hasn't lived in Chicago for 13 years, you sure claim to know a lot about what's going on here. I'm not sure you have all your facts straight though.

For example, here is a 2,500 sqft, 4 bedroom, 3 bathroom house for $395k with a great K-9 school for sale right now in Chicago: https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5218-S-McVicker-Ave-60638/home/14028445.

Pretty much every city and state in America has significant pension issues. Texas has 4 cities in the top 12 for largest unfunded liabilities. Dallas almost went bankrupt last year due to inability to pay pensions. https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/towering-debts/.

The rest of your comments indicate your opinion is steeped more in political preference than reality. I'll take soon-to-be-legalized marijuana, legitimate public transportation, world class libraries, famed museums and parks; you can have low taxes.

[bigworld2017]

For someone who hasn't lived in Chicago for 13 years, you sure claim to know a lot about what's going on here. I'm not sure you have all your facts straight though.

For example, here is a 2,500 sqft, 4 bedroom, 3 bathroom house for $395k with a great K-9 school for sale right now in Chicago: https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5218-S-McVicker-Ave-60638/home/14028445.

Pretty much every city and state in America has significant pension issues. Texas has 4 cities in the top 12 for largest unfunded liabilities. Dallas almost went bankrupt last year due to inability to pay pensions. https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/towering-debts/.

The rest of your comments indicate your opinion is steeped more in political preference than reality. I'll take soon-to-be-legalized marijuana, legitimate public transportation, world class libraries, famed museums and parks; you can have low taxes.

To each his own. I grew up on the South Side. I would not choose to live there as an adult. I prefer the northside (if I were forced at gunpoint to move back there). Our last house was off Addison about 2 miles west of Wrigley. I really liked the Andersonville, Roscoe Village and Ravenswood neighborhoods also. My current house in either of those neighborhoods would be $800 K Plus with $15 K a year in property taxes. Out of my price range.

[moorhosj]

I really liked the Andersonville, Roscoe Village and Ravenswood neighborhoods also. My current house in either of those neighborhoods would be $800 K Plus with $15 K a year in property taxes. Out of my price range.

Yes, it is expensive to buy a home in the most desirable areas of the city. This is the case in every city in the country and will likely continue.

There are plenty of safe, middle-to-upper class neighborhoods on the South Side (Clearing, Mt. Greenwood, Morgan Park, Beverly, Hyde Park, Kenwood, West Lawn, Ashburn, Garfield Ridge and Bridgeport are 10 examples). Moving the goalposts to only northside neighborhoods still proves your stance questionable. Neighborhoods like:

Jefferson Park - https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5501-W-Ardmore-Ave-60646/home/13512947
Portage Park - https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4533-N-Meade-Ave-60630/home/13475080
Dunning - https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3813-N-Newcastle-Ave-60634/home/13471101
Edison Park - https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6759-N-Ozanam-Ave-60631/home/13638171
Norwood Park - https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5723-N-Oleander-Ave-60631/home/13563529

All on the northside with single-family homes under $400k and good schools. I have a colleague who owns a house in Jefferson Park and his wife stays home with the kids. Their household income is about $110k and they live a comfortable middle-class lifestyle in Chicago in a neighborhood with good public schools. Let's not just parrot media talking points, the reality is much more nuanced.

[Susan]

I received several comments on this last post of mine. I'm not able to PM yet so I will try and post answers here.

Strike 1: Back in grade school the school I attended a trip to the museum of science and industry, as I was sitting in a bathroom stall a bunch of kids from another school tossed toilet paper over the stall on me.

I went to the bathroom, and Kids from another School tossed wet toilet paper over the stalls.

Strike 2: In college my friends and I went to a bar. Some guy hit on a friends girlfriend and when he stood up , the guy smashed a bottle on the counter, and slashed his face and scarred him for life.

If I remember correctly the bar was called Kabom, or something like that, I can not remember the neighborhood.

Strike 3: A friend I met in college was actually shot in the leg at a Chicago party, his girl friend was killed in the same shooting incident, Him and his brother both got away by running.

I met this guy when I was 24, and studying a 2nd major. My college at the time housed students in various apartment complexes. He was not a student. but played for the minor league White Soxs, and lived in the same building. We became close enough that I was invited to his wedding, but have since lost touch. This Story was shared with me over 20 years ago

Strike 4: A friend and I while walking between bars downtown got jumped and beat down for no reason.

To be honest I was pretty drunk at the time and do not remember all the details, But we were walking in what I considered a common area. One of the bars we visited that night used to shoot osters mixed with vodka down tubes mixed with liquor from a 2nd level floor. (That was there thing). I can not remember the bars name but it was very popular in the day. (Maybe Someone who was in that scene in the late 90's can help remember). Keep in mind this was about 20 years ago.

Strike 5. I was driving to the city with friends, and we accidentally cut a guy off, He pulled up beside the car and pointed a gun at us.

I take I-88 to the city, This happened somewhere around I-88 and 294.

I live less than 25 minutes away, and really have no reason to go there unless I have to.

In the last 10 years I have only been in the city a handful of times. In this time period I have not had any problems, Its just not a place I choose to go to any more. I think I hit maybe three bulls games. 2 bears games, and met someone who bought something on e-bay. I also fish the piers late at night, but when in season during those times I'm surrounded by a group of friends and also other fisherman. I can not remember the last time I went to a bar or club in Chicago. I have been out of that scene for a long time.

The thing is, I grew up in the suburbs and never experienced any of these issues locally. My brother and Sister shared a house for several years about a mile away, and they did not lock there doors for over 8 years, and never had a problem. (I always told them they were crazy).

I have lived in suburbs all my life, and just had my second vandalism indecent. About 12 years ago someone smashed my Halloween pumpkin. Last week someone went into my back yard and cut my cloths line. (Probably High school kids who take a short cut home from the bus stop though the yard as it took place between 2:00 - 4:00).

Which suburb are you from?

[petebraun0]

I am super worried about our debt crisis, but I've been a Chicagoan my entire life. Is the unpaid debt going to hurt all citizens of the state?, or mostly state employees and teachers? What little family I have lives near Chicago, so I'd like to stay.

[League Circles]

I really liked the Andersonville, Roscoe Village and Ravenswood neighborhoods also. My current house in either of those neighborhoods would be $800 K Plus with $15 K a year in property taxes. Out of my price range.

Yes, it is expensive to buy a home in the most desirable areas of the city. This is the case in every city in the country and will likely continue.

There are plenty of safe, middle-to-upper class neighborhoods on the South Side (Clearing, Mt. Greenwood, Morgan Park, Beverly, Hyde Park, Kenwood, West Lawn, Ashburn, Garfield Ridge and Bridgeport are 10 examples). Moving the goalposts to only northside neighborhoods still proves your stance questionable. Neighborhoods like:

Jefferson Park - https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5501-W-Ardmore-Ave-60646/home/13512947
Portage Park - https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4533-N-Meade-Ave-60630/home/13475080
Dunning - https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3813-N-Newcastle-Ave-60634/home/13471101
Edison Park - https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6759-N-Ozanam-Ave-60631/home/13638171
Norwood Park - https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5723-N-Oleander-Ave-60631/home/13563529

All on the northside with single-family homes under $400k and good schools. I have a colleague who owns a house in Jefferson Park and his wife stays home with the kids. Their household income is about $110k and they live a comfortable middle-class lifestyle in Chicago in a neighborhood with good public schools. Let's not just parrot media talking points, the reality is much more nuanced.

IMO the school system can never be trusted again after the very long strike of a few years ago. It's just so completely unacceptable and such an absolute public failure that even if some individual schools are good I personally would never trust Chicago public schools to educate my children.

and the notion that a $400,000 home is particularly affordable would be extremely laughable to 90% of this country. Other than the West coast and the Northeast coastal areas, quality housing is generally drastically cheaper than that. I live in the North shore suburb and pay pretty darn high property taxes for excellent schools but I might retire to a condo in Chicago where property taxes are much lower because of how much worse the public services are.

[bigworld2017]

I am super worried about our debt crisis, but I've been a Chicagoan my entire life. Is the unpaid debt going to hurt all citizens of the state?, or mostly state employees and teachers? What little family I have lives near Chicago, so I'd like to stay.

There are plenty of articles you can find that define the depth of the problem. Illinois is one of the 3 worst states in America for Pension funding shortfalls. Many of the City Pension funds, like for Police, Fire and Teachers, are very underwater. Now, at the current time the Illinois Constitution provides protections for those Pensions. So all attempts to cut benefits have been overturned in the courts. But that Constitutional mandate will come up against one might facts of economics: The State (and the City) do not have the funds to pay those promised benefits. For the State alone each taxpayer would have to write a check for almost $51,000 just to get to even on state Pension funding. Do you think that is possible? I don't. And the idea that the State will just get it from all the "rich" people is dubious. Many of the rich can pull up stakes and move to less taxing locales. All the people who have moved to Florida and Texas didn't do just to escape winters. We have many tax refugees.

If I had to guess about the resolution of the Pension crisis in Illinois and across the country is that the Congress will have to extend the Federal Bankruptcy laws to cover States. They currently do not. Once a State can declare bankruptcy they can cram down Pension benefits despite the State Constitution. In that case there will be some type of compromise whereby the Retirees get a reduced Pension while the taxpayers get screwed again, just not as bad. Both sides will have to compromise. The Retirees cannot he left completely hanging, but the taxpayers DO NOT HAVE the financial capability to pay off the debts in full.

If you are a renter, that's probably better because you can leave if things get really bad financially. If you own a house you are at greater risk because the politicians then have you by the short hairs. They'll tax your property to death knowing you'll do anything to pay the taxes and not lose it to a tax lien.

[petebraun0]

I am super worried about our debt crisis, but I've been a Chicagoan my entire life. Is the unpaid debt going to hurt all citizens of the state?, or mostly state employees and teachers? What little family I have lives near Chicago, so I'd like to stay.

There are plenty of articles you can find that define the depth of the problem. Illinois is one of the 3 worst states in America for Pension funding shortfalls. Many of the City Pension funds, like for Police, Fire and Teachers, are very underwater. Now, at the current time the Illinois Constitution provides protections for those Pensions. So all attempts to cut benefits have been overturned in the courts. But that Constitutional mandate will come up against one might facts of economics: The State (and the City) do not have the funds to pay those promised benefits. For the State alone each taxpayer would have to write a check for almost $51,000 just to get to even on state Pension funding. Do you think that is possible? I don't. And the idea that the State will just get it from all the "rich" people is dubious. Many of the rich can pull up stakes and move to less taxing locales. All the people who have moved to Florida and Texas didn't do just to escape winters. We have many tax refugees.

If I had to guess about the resolution of the Pension crisis in Illinois and across the country is that the Congress will have to extend the Federal Bankruptcy laws to cover States. They currently do not. Once a State can declare bankruptcy they can cram down Pension benefits despite the State Constitution. In that case there will be some type of compromise whereby the Retirees get a reduced Pension while the taxpayers get screwed again, just not as bad. Both sides will have to compromise. The Retirees cannot he left completely hanging, but the taxpayers DO NOT HAVE the financial capability to pay off the debts in full.

If you are a renter, that's probably better because you can leave if things get really bad financially. If you own a house you are at greater risk because the politicians then have you by the short hairs. They'll tax your property to death knowing you'll do anything to pay the taxes and not lose it to a tax lien.

thanks, well written and educational.