Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed

[Poohdini1]

I agree, I think it could be a great move for them. I just don't see how we could expect to get much more in return for Portis and Holiday considering they are going to be free agents next off season. They would basically be trading for the rest of this year and their bird rights. Maybe we could get them to add someone like Korkmaz.

However, maybe a different type of trade could be set up that involves Markelle Fultz or Zhaire Smith, but I think it would be unlikely they would be ready to part with either at this point.

Portis is a RFA this summer, he should be resigned, not traded for garbage guys or late first rounders.

It's about whether even one other team is willing to pay him starter money (ie $15M). In isolation, it's ok, if he's the last piece of the puzzle, but we'll still need 1 allstar SF and quite possibly a starting PG and the opportunity cost is pretty high. Especially if you could get a Vonleh, Muscala, etc. type guy for $5M or less.

I don't see any harm in giving Bobby $12-15 over 3-4 years. RoLo & Holiday expire, Jabari's $20 mill goes away. Zach's paid already, Dunn & Denzel have cheap team options, and Lauri's on his rookie deal. The only deal on the payroll over $6 million is Felicio.

[Ccwatercraft]

Portis is a RFA this summer, he should be resigned, not traded for garbage guys or late first rounders.

It's about whether even one other team is willing to pay him starter money (ie $15M). In isolation, it's ok, if he's the last piece of the puzzle, but we'll still need 1 allstar SF and quite possibly a starting PG and the opportunity cost is pretty high. Especially if you could get a Vonleh, Muscala, etc. type guy for $5M or less.

I don't see any harm in giving Bobby $12-15 over 3-4 years. RoLo & Holiday expire, Jabari's $20 mill goes away. Zach's paid already, Dunn & Denzel have cheap team options, and Lauri's on his rookie deal. The only deal on the payroll over $6 million is Felicio.

IF another team is willing to over pay him, so be it, if another teams is willing to offer fair market value, yo match, if there is a market for his services its because he's a good player, why get rid of good players? At some point you have to pay good players.

I'm no expert, but I hear that its kinda sorta how you become a good team.

[kodo]

I don't think it's about getting rid of Bobby, but about losing Bobby for nothing in his RFA next offseason. Which is the opposite of wanting to get rid of Bobby really - it means that Bobby is viewed as someone who might very well command starter money.

What was the rumored amount for the extension he turned down?

AFAIK no numbers have been leaked, nor have there been substantiated rumours. The only number that was discussed was that they were 2 millions apart on the yearly salary, but I don't remember seeing a number on either what the Bulls offered or what Portis wanted.

The only # I saw was KC Johnson reporting that the Justise Winslow deal was brought up as a benchmark and rejected by one of the two sides.

Winslow got $13M per year.

Given that Justise averaged 7 ppg & 11 PER compared to Bobby's 13 ppg & 19.7 PER, I would assume it's Bobby's side (Bartelstein) that said "no" to the Winslow style deal.

Bulls probably view this as the same as Lavine, they'll just match whatever he gets next summer.

Regardless, I think Winslow's $13M per year for a guy who has the same PER as Holiday gives a benchmark for how much people get paid in this league. I think this board often has unrealistically low expectations of what constitutes a salary for a non-star core rotation player. Mason Plumlee also got $13M per year for multiple years from Denver (who already had Jokic) and averages 6 ppg and 4 rpg and plays 17 mpg.

[sco]

It's about whether even one other team is willing to pay him starter money (ie $15M). In isolation, it's ok, if he's the last piece of the puzzle, but we'll still need 1 allstar SF and quite possibly a starting PG and the opportunity cost is pretty high. Especially if you could get a Vonleh, Muscala, etc. type guy for $5M or less.

I don't see any harm in giving Bobby $12-15 over 3-4 years. RoLo & Holiday expire, Jabari's $20 mill goes away. Zach's paid already, Dunn & Denzel have cheap team options, and Lauri's on his rookie deal. The only deal on the payroll over $6 million is Felicio.

IF another team is willing to over pay him, so be it, if another teams is willing to offer fair market value, yo match, if there is a market for his services its because he's a good player, why get rid of good players? At some point you have to pay good players.

I'm no expert, but I hear that its kinda sorta how you become a good team.

I get your point, and it's semantics, but paying "good" players is the way you become a "good" team. My point is that I ONLY want to be a championship team, and IMO the way to become a championship team is to not get stuck as a good team. You become a bad team until you have 3 elite players, and then you find a bunch of vet min, but capable role players to fill in your depth. As I understand our cap structure, signing Bobby, would limit our ability to sign 2 $20M+ great guys next season...that's my goal.

[Poohdini1]

I don't see any harm in giving Bobby $12-15 over 3-4 years. RoLo & Holiday expire, Jabari's $20 mill goes away. Zach's paid already, Dunn & Denzel have cheap team options, and Lauri's on his rookie deal. The only deal on the payroll over $6 million is Felicio.

IF another team is willing to over pay him, so be it, if another teams is willing to offer fair market value, yo match, if there is a market for his services its because he's a good player, why get rid of good players? At some point you have to pay good players.

I'm no expert, but I hear that its kinda sorta how you become a good team.

I get your point, and it's semantics, but paying "good" players is the way you become a "good" team. My point is that I ONLY want to be a championship team, and IMO the way to become a championship team is to not get stuck as a good team. You become a bad team until you have 3 elite players, and then you find a bunch of vet min, but capable role players to fill in your depth. As I understand our cap structure, signing Bobby, would limit our ability to sign 2 $20M+ great guys next season...that's my goal.

Yeah I guess my expectations on signing 2 $20M+ guys is lower than yours. i'd be happy just getting one of those players to go with the current group & next years pick.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Such a "dull" "meh" "who cares" trade but I'm bored and I could see both team agreeing to it.

Payne to Suns for Troy Daniels.

Daniels is at the end of the Suns bench but is a career 40% 3pt shooter. He does nothing else though, which is the reason why he doesn't play much.

[Ccwatercraft]

I don't see any harm in giving Bobby $12-15 over 3-4 years. RoLo & Holiday expire, Jabari's $20 mill goes away. Zach's paid already, Dunn & Denzel have cheap team options, and Lauri's on his rookie deal. The only deal on the payroll over $6 million is Felicio.

IF another team is willing to over pay him, so be it, if another teams is willing to offer fair market value, yo match, if there is a market for his services its because he's a good player, why get rid of good players? At some point you have to pay good players.

I'm no expert, but I hear that its kinda sorta how you become a good team.

I get your point, and it's semantics, but paying "good" players is the way you become a "good" team. My point is that I ONLY want to be a championship team, and IMO the way to become a championship team is to not get stuck as a good team. You become a bad team until you have 3 elite players, and then you find a bunch of vet min, but capable role players to fill in your depth. As I understand our cap structure, signing Bobby, would limit our ability to sign 2 $20M+ great guys next season...that's my goal.

oh ya, I forget the "championship or bust" contingent out there.

Not being critical, as everyone has their own expectations for the near present/future.

I just get a little frustrated when posters suggest that we essentially recycle good players and start the clock over when we haven't really proven to be a destination team for those elite guys out there. I'm not saying I'd be thrilled if we followed the Heat's (current) playbook and have 7 guys over 10 mil or anything but cutting guys off before they hit their prime isn't very sexy to me either, and Bobby has not peaked.

Setting aside Lavine (19.5) and assuming parker isn't renewed, our salaries in 2019 are peanuts!
felicio 8.1, markk 5.3, carter 5.2, dunn 5.3, val 3.3, blakeney 1.6

I can't imagine by looking at that list that we can look at bobby and say that he doesn't fit into our current salary structure or won't help the team, we absolutely can afford him AND a quality FA whoever that might be.

If some of the young fella's don't pan out, (and I DONT think bobby is in that catagory) we can just take a pass on offering them a raise but we're running out of time, we're going to be up against the wall on several of them real soon and then posters will be suggesting another reset for a stud that never comes.

[sco]

IF another team is willing to over pay him, so be it, if another teams is willing to offer fair market value, yo match, if there is a market for his services its because he's a good player, why get rid of good players? At some point you have to pay good players.

I'm no expert, but I hear that its kinda sorta how you become a good team.

I get your point, and it's semantics, but paying "good" players is the way you become a "good" team. My point is that I ONLY want to be a championship team, and IMO the way to become a championship team is to not get stuck as a good team. You become a bad team until you have 3 elite players, and then you find a bunch of vet min, but capable role players to fill in your depth. As I understand our cap structure, signing Bobby, would limit our ability to sign 2 $20M+ great guys next season...that's my goal.

oh ya, I forget the "championship or bust" contingent out there.

Not being critical, as everyone has their own expectations for the near present/future.

I just get a little frustrated when posters suggest that we essentially recycle good players and start the clock over when we haven't really proven to be a destination team for those elite guys out there. I'm not saying I'd be thrilled if we followed the Heat's (current) playbook and have 7 guys over 10 mil or anything but cutting guys off before they hit their prime isn't very sexy to me either, and Bobby has not peaked.

Setting aside Lavine (19.5) and assuming parker isn't renewed, our salaries in 2019 are peanuts!
felicio 8.1, markk 5.3, carter 5.2, dunn 5.3, val 3.3, blakeney 1.6

I can't imagine by looking at that list that we can look at bobby and say that he doesn't fit into our current salary structure or won't help the team, we absolutely can afford him AND a quality FA whoever that might be.

If some of the young fella's don't pan out, (and I DONT think bobby is in that catagory) we can just take a pass on offering them a raise but we're running out of time, we're going to be up against the wall on several of them real soon and then posters will be suggesting another reset for a stud that never comes.

Championship or bust...yep that's me. If given the choice between 10 years of lottery and a championship vs. 10 years of 1st/2nd round exits...give me the former. I respect that others may choose the latter.

That said, I think you frame the Bobby issue well. Ironically, the Bobby issue is as much a Dunn issue. If Dunn is a top quartile starting PG, then you don't need 2 $20M+ guys and you don't worry about signing Bobby for $15M. If Dunn is a 3rd quartile starting PG, then you have to think twice about the opportunity cost of signing Bobby. That's why I'm glad the Bulls didn't reach an agreement this offseason, because you have the year to figure that out (or at least up the trade deadline, which should be long enough).

[Ccwatercraft]

Agree on the early extension part for sure, depending on the terms of course. 4x10 would have been perfect IMO, especially if a team option was in there.

[Onibuh]

I'd take on the Porter contract. Fills a hole, solid Player just overpaid. WSH may Need a shakeup and Oubre gets a new contract soon.
Don't know how to work it out with Felicio included.

[BigJimFinn]

I get your point, and it's semantics, but paying "good" players is the way you become a "good" team. My point is that I ONLY want to be a championship team, and IMO the way to become a championship team is to not get stuck as a good team. You become a bad team until you have 3 elite players, and then you find a bunch of vet min, but capable role players to fill in your depth. As I understand our cap structure, signing Bobby, would limit our ability to sign 2 $20M+ great guys next season...that's my goal.

oh ya, I forget the "championship or bust" contingent out there.

Not being critical, as everyone has their own expectations for the near present/future.

I just get a little frustrated when posters suggest that we essentially recycle good players and start the clock over when we haven't really proven to be a destination team for those elite guys out there. I'm not saying I'd be thrilled if we followed the Heat's (current) playbook and have 7 guys over 10 mil or anything but cutting guys off before they hit their prime isn't very sexy to me either, and Bobby has not peaked.

Setting aside Lavine (19.5) and assuming parker isn't renewed, our salaries in 2019 are peanuts!
felicio 8.1, markk 5.3, carter 5.2, dunn 5.3, val 3.3, blakeney 1.6

I can't imagine by looking at that list that we can look at bobby and say that he doesn't fit into our current salary structure or won't help the team, we absolutely can afford him AND a quality FA whoever that might be.

If some of the young fella's don't pan out, (and I DONT think bobby is in that catagory) we can just take a pass on offering them a raise but we're running out of time, we're going to be up against the wall on several of them real soon and then posters will be suggesting another reset for a stud that never comes.

Championship or bust...yep that's me. If given the choice between 10 years of lottery and a championship vs. 10 years of 1st/2nd round exits...give me the former. I respect that others may choose the latter.

That said, I think you frame the Bobby issue well. Ironically, the Bobby issue is as much a Dunn issue. If Dunn is a top quartile starting PG, then you don't need 2 $20M+ guys and you don't worry about signing Bobby for $15M. If Dunn is a 3rd quartile starting PG, then you have to think twice about the opportunity cost of signing Bobby. That's why I'm glad the Bulls didn't reach an agreement this offseason, because you have the year to figure that out (or at least up the trade deadline, which should be long enough).

That is how I see it too. If the Bulls commit to Portis as the 3rd big at 15M or so, they are gambling on Dunn and the next pick becoming the missing quality starters at 1 and 3. That is not a bet I would take.

[pipfan]

Parker for RAnderson and the Milw 1st?

[PhillyFan11]

Throwing a trade out there to see what Bulls fans think

Markell Fultz, Furkan Korkmaz, Jonah Bolden and a couple of 2nd round picks

for

Bobby Portis and Justin Holiday

[leo921]

Throwing a trade out there to see what Bulls fans think

Markell Fultz, Furkan Korkmaz, Jonah Bolden and a couple of 2nd round picks

for

Bobby Portis and Justin Holiday

Good trade for both sides. Portis would be a good stretch 4 for Philly and Holiday is a 3 and average D depth piece

Fultz would be a good backup who can play both PG and SG and Bolden is a good C prospect. Korkmaz is a prospect who needs time but Bulls invested in Blakeny and Gar loves to trade 2nd rounders

[Dan Z]

Throwing a trade out there to see what Bulls fans think

Markell Fultz, Furkan Korkmaz, Jonah Bolden and a couple of 2nd round picks

for

Bobby Portis and Justin Holiday

I'd do it. Is Philly really that low on Fultz right now?

[samwana]

Fultz becoming an epic bust for a #1 pick?
That title can get into a man's head I guess.

I think I would do that trade, if we get Zhaire instead of Korkmaz or Bolden. Bobby alone is good enough to warrant that.

Philly owns 3 2nd round picks in the upcoming draft. I think they can throw in a couple with their roster pretty much set..



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[realEAST]

Throwing a trade out there to see what Bulls fans think

Markell Fultz, Furkan Korkmaz, Jonah Bolden and a couple of 2nd round picks

for

Bobby Portis and Justin Holiday

I'd love it, but it is a huge overpay for 76ers. And not sure Portis is a good fit there at all.

[logical_art]

Futlz and Bolden for Portis, Holiday and Payne.

[drosereturn]

Throwing a trade out there to see what Bulls fans think

Markell Fultz, Furkan Korkmaz, Jonah Bolden and a couple of 2nd round picks

for

Bobby Portis and Justin Holiday

I'd do it. Is Philly really that low on Fultz right now?

Fultz is a negative asset when you consider he is making nearly 10 million dollars for a bench warmer.
As of now, Philly doesnt have time to waste/develop him and already went all in for win now mode.
Knowing they are desperate, I would try to snag Z.Smith in addition to Fultz by giving up BP, Holiday, and Valentine.
Philly gets 3 key rotation players while Bulls gets to develop 2 young projects who still have some decent potential left in the tank.

[logical_art]

Fultz is pretty decent considering his jump shot is completely busted. It's just having two non shooters on the parameter (him and Simmons) doesn't work. If he can fix that J, he still could be a very good player.

To me it's the kind of gamble the Bulls should be taking.