PG: BLOWN out again, the G League cavalry couldn't come to the rescue

[WindyCityBorn]

Might as well tank and try to get one of the three Duke players.

As I recall, Jabari Parker was one of the best players in many years to come out of Duke. Consensus top three pick.

But the current Duke guys are probably sure things.

Chill man. Jabari shredded both knees. Not the same guy from Duke. Not sure why this is so hard to understand for some of you. Derrick Rose should be a lesson for all of you.

[Dresden]

I think Paxson has a long leash because he took over a team that was failing to win 20 games some years, and turned it into a playoff team, and then a team that was in the ECF and won over 60 games. It was Paxson that drafted those players and hired Thibs. So he has a proven track record. Owners will stay with a FO like that, much longer than they will for a new GM without that kind of track record. Those types get 4-5 years and then if it doesn't work, they're out. But Paxson has already shown that he can turn a team around, and the owners are betting he can do it again. Sometimes better to stick with the devil you know than the one you don't.

[Benedict Miller]

I predicted Lavine would be out around the time Markkanen would be nearing return. This has been a nice tank effort.

[Axolotl]

This was not the Bulls playing, that's what I'm comforting myself with. Our best player having played 16 NBA games before this one, the end result was as expected:



Now that I got that out of my system... Wait, not I didn't...



Blakeney still chucking like there's no tomorrow. Harrison plays hard all the time. Parker showing some effort, but not shooting well. RoLo with a couple of nice hook shots - and a three! Holiday keeps on being what he is. Arcidiacono and Payne are nowhere near Fred VanVleet's level. Hutchison I hope is in Fred's shooting school, just can't get the buckets. Payne and Felicio should not be on the roster.

Wendell Carter Junior with a bad shooting night, but carried the defence. There were several occasions where everyone else were just watching the ball, and WCJ still managed to deny. He is already altering the way our opponents play with his mere presence. Mature beyond his years both on and off the court.

"Lowry" is pronounced the same as "Lauri". It hurt every time Funk mentioned Lowry.

[erlim]

I am getting a creeping feeling we are very close to poisoning the well under this horrible Hoiball-Era. I remember us squandering our time with a squad of three future all stars in Brad Miller, Brand, and (who I believe will be a bonafide hall of gamer) Meta World Peace; not to mention consummate sixth man of the year Jamal Crawford. We will look back and realize how much better this collection of guys could be.

[GDRO10]

The amount of people blaming Hoiberg for this mess is unreal. Not trying to say that Fred has done anything to deserve this job, but give this G-League squad to Stevens or Popovich and nothing changes.

[coldfish]

The amount of people blaming Hoiberg for this mess is unreal. Not trying to say that Fred has done anything to deserve this job, but give this G-League squad to Stevens or Popovich and nothing changes.

This team isn't good. No coach is changing that. I think what people want at this point is a teaching coach who at least tries to get players to play the right way. When the team wasn't playing as bad, Fred should have been pulling Jabari when he didn't get back on defense, yelling at Blakeney when he took forced shots before moving the ball around, etc.

When you don't do that, you kind of poison the well. The players who are trying ask themselves why they are doing so. They quickly get bad habits and the basketball gets worse and worse.

GarPax are basically gambling that when they have the talent, they can break all of these habits and teach all of these players to play basketball the right way.

[GrowingHorns]

The amount of people blaming Hoiberg for this mess is unreal. Not trying to say that Fred has done anything to deserve this job, but give this G-League squad to Stevens or Popovich and nothing changes.

This team isn't good. No coach is changing that. I think what people want at this point is a teaching coach who at least tries to get players to play the right way. When the team wasn't playing as bad, Fred should have been pulling Jabari when he didn't get back on defense, yelling at Blakeney when he took forced shots before moving the ball around, etc.

When you don't do that, you kind of poison the well. The players who are trying ask themselves why they are doing so. They quickly get bad habits and the basketball gets worse and worse.

GarPax are basically gambling that when they have the talent, they can break all of these habits and teach all of these players to play basketball the right way.

Same thoughts, but maybe not a big believer of yelling. Fred just should bench immediately from lazy or idiotic action. Put them in ther bench and give a silent treatment, not looking in the eyes. And ask on next timeout/half-time "I think you know why you're collecting sticks into your buttocks? If not, we have this Windy city Bulls with guys waiting their chance."

[rtblues]

This is Tim Floyd bad!

[bledredwine]

TANK SAUCE!!!

[R3AL1TY]

It seems like this team can never have the right set of guys playing together (injuries involved) while the coaching gets more questionable each game.

[Red Larrivee]

Right now the Kings look more promising than the Bulls. Yikes!

The Bulls have been without arguably their best player, their 6th man, starting point guard and a rotation player all season. Last night, they were missing their best scorer.

I would expect most teams to look more promising than us under those circumstances.

[johnnyvann840]

Since I can remember being a Bulls fan... around 1970 when I was 5, this is the most unlikable product the organization has ever put on the floor. Don't like the coach, don't like the players, don't like the brand of basketball they play, can't stand the GM. Don't like the comments most of the team and the coach make off the court. Don't even like the stupid Zenni logo on their jerseys. I hate everything about this season. What a crap season. The NBA sucks these days. All these players resting. I would be so livid if I actually paid for LP this season.

Man, I am in your corner. I dislike everything top to bottom. I guess Carter looks like he will be a real keeper, though maybe not an all star. Other than that, I guess I saw a good looking Luva-Bull the other day during a break? I'm at a loss, but I grew up with a baseball and a basketball team and I don't know how to quit either. It'd br like asking me to stop being left handed.

Wendell and Lauri are the two players I could get on board with. That's about it.

[johnnyvann840]

The amount of people blaming Hoiberg for this mess is unreal. Not trying to say that Fred has done anything to deserve this job, but give this G-League squad to Stevens or Popovich and nothing changes.

Nobody is "blaming Hoiberg" (at least I'm not). He's just part of the problem. He's making things worse also. No, this is a collective effort starting at the top but Fred is just compounding things by being such an enabler of laziness and stupid horrible play.

[molepharmer]

The amount of people blaming Hoiberg for this mess is unreal. Not trying to say that Fred has done anything to deserve this job, but give this G-League squad to Stevens or Popovich and nothing changes.

This team isn't good. No coach is changing that. I think what people want at this point is a teaching coach who at least tries to get players to play the right way. When the team wasn't playing as bad, Fred should have been pulling Jabari when he didn't get back on defense, yelling at Blakeney when he took forced shots before moving the ball around, etc.

When you don't do that, you kind of poison the well. The players who are trying ask themselves why they are doing so. They quickly get bad habits and the basketball gets worse and worse.

GarPax are basically gambling that when they have the talent, they can break all of these habits and teach all of these players to play basketball the right way.

Same thoughts, but maybe not a big believer of yelling. Fred just should bench immediately from lazy or idiotic action. Put them in ther bench and give a silent treatment, not looking in the eyes. And ask on next timeout/half-time "I think you know why you're collecting sticks into your buttocks? If not, we have this Windy city Bulls with guys waiting their chance."

Not disagreeing with this take, but how long do you think it'd be before their replacements (Hutchinson, Payne, Harrison, etc) would make similar stupid plays. Fred can't simply turn around and put in a reliable vet from the bench for every bad play. He's got a bunch of trash to choose from. It'd be a revolving door of players coming in and out of the lineup. You guys are talking about bringing in replacements for Jabari and Blakeney who themselves would probably be 3rd stringers when this team is healthy.

[coldfish]

This team isn't good. No coach is changing that. I think what people want at this point is a teaching coach who at least tries to get players to play the right way. When the team wasn't playing as bad, Fred should have been pulling Jabari when he didn't get back on defense, yelling at Blakeney when he took forced shots before moving the ball around, etc.

When you don't do that, you kind of poison the well. The players who are trying ask themselves why they are doing so. They quickly get bad habits and the basketball gets worse and worse.

GarPax are basically gambling that when they have the talent, they can break all of these habits and teach all of these players to play basketball the right way.

Same thoughts, but maybe not a big believer of yelling. Fred just should bench immediately from lazy or idiotic action. Put them in ther bench and give a silent treatment, not looking in the eyes. And ask on next timeout/half-time "I think you know why you're collecting sticks into your buttocks? If not, we have this Windy city Bulls with guys waiting their chance."

Not disagreeing with this take, but how long do you think it'd be before their replacements (Hutchinson, Payne, Harrison, etc) would make similar stupid plays. Fred can't simply turn around and put in a reliable vet from the bench for every bad play. He's got a bunch of trash to choose from. It'd be a revolving door of players coming in and out of the lineup. You guys are talking about bringing in replacements for Jabari and Blakeney who themselves would probably be 3rd stringers when this team is healthy.

Fans only see a small part of the interactions between coach and players. We effectively see the results of practice, conversations, game planning, scheme, etc. This is a fundamentally poorly coached team and that's above and beyond their lack of talent.

You are absolutely right that a coach can't just pull a player the first time they don't get back on defense. Doing so goes the other way where you create a culture of fear. A proper coach takes it in steps where he says something, practices the proper technique, if the problem continues, he says something again, etc. The culmination of that is pulling people.

My original comment wasn't fully flushed out in that regard and you are correct that just pulling people for mistakes isn't a possibility right now and it isn't good coaching.

As a side note, I strongly suspect that the FO started believing that long hard practices were causing injuries. Based on what we are reading, the practices aren't much for Chicago. The end result? Poor execution . . . . and everyone is injured.

[sco]

NBA basketball a sport where one guy matters a lot. Taking the best player off any NBA team was a dramatic impact on that team's +/-. Having your best guy and 4 of your best 6 guys out is going to make any team horrific. I started calling this the second preseason, cuz it's about 2 things to me:

1) Development of rookies
2) Assessing which/whether remaining guys are legitimate rotation players.

We sit here and pretend we are experts and see just how NOT NBA MATERIAL guys like Shrek, Parker, Payne and Blakeney are. How do you think the other Bulls players feel, not to mention the FO...they all know, but what the heck are they supposed to do/say?

Listening to the game last night, I found some solace listening to Stacey throwing-up on the mike when he was talking about just what a mess of a player that Shrek was.

[Jvaughn]

The amount of people blaming Hoiberg for this mess is unreal. Not trying to say that Fred has done anything to deserve this job, but give this G-League squad to Stevens or Popovich and nothing changes.

This team isn't good. No coach is changing that. I think what people want at this point is a teaching coach who at least tries to get players to play the right way. When the team wasn't playing as bad, Fred should have been pulling Jabari when he didn't get back on defense, yelling at Blakeney when he took forced shots before moving the ball around, etc.

When you don't do that, you kind of poison the well. The players who are trying ask themselves why they are doing so. They quickly get bad habits and the basketball gets worse and worse.

GarPax are basically gambling that when they have the talent, they can break all of these habits and teach all of these players to play basketball the right way.

My issue with Hoiberg is that he doesn't control the things that are in his control. His rotations are trash, he doesn't make good in game changes, he doesn't hold players accountable for not hustling or for chucking.

When the Sixers were "rebuilding" they were losing games, because they just didn't have the talent to compete. But Brett Brown always got those fringe level players to give their all every night, and he never sat back with a bag of popcorn and just watched the disaster on the court.

He was up screaming, making changes, and making sure his team was leaving on the court every night, no matter how futile it was. It's the reason why he got an extension while they were still a sub .500 team.

Fred sits back, let's his players get mauled without going after refs, lets players like Holiday and Blakeney take some of these worst shots without consequence, and doesn't make in game changes to fire his team up or get easy baskets to settle them down. I honestly can't name one coaching trait he excels at.

[hungarianjordan]

Same thoughts, but maybe not a big believer of yelling. Fred just should bench immediately from lazy or idiotic action. Put them in ther bench and give a silent treatment, not looking in the eyes. And ask on next timeout/half-time "I think you know why you're collecting sticks into your buttocks? If not, we have this Windy city Bulls with guys waiting their chance."

Not disagreeing with this take, but how long do you think it'd be before their replacements (Hutchinson, Payne, Harrison, etc) would make similar stupid plays. Fred can't simply turn around and put in a reliable vet from the bench for every bad play. He's got a bunch of trash to choose from. It'd be a revolving door of players coming in and out of the lineup. You guys are talking about bringing in replacements for Jabari and Blakeney who themselves would probably be 3rd stringers when this team is healthy.

Fans only see a small part of the interactions between coach and players. We effectively see the results of practice, conversations, game planning, scheme, etc. This is a fundamentally poorly coached team and that's above and beyond their lack of talent.

You are absolutely right that a coach can't just pull a player the first time they don't get back on defense. Doing so goes the other way where you create a culture of fear. A proper coach takes it in steps where he says something, practices the proper technique, if the problem continues, he says something again, etc. The culmination of that is pulling people.

My original comment wasn't fully flushed out in that regard and you are correct that just pulling people for mistakes isn't a possibility right now and it isn't good coaching.

As a side note, I strongly suspect that the FO started believing that long hard practices were causing injuries. Based on what we are reading, the practices aren't much for Chicago. The end result? Poor execution . . . . and everyone is injured.

Fred has basically said that this is his philosophy too. He'll yell at the guys in film afterwards, but during the games you have to try to hype the players up to get their confidence high and get them playing well. I think that's the right move. This team has crumbled at adversity.

Re: practices, this is what people don't understand about Thibs/Hoiberg. Thibs' practices were very easy. They were a lot of film and walkthroughs, the team never scrimmaged, Thibs knew his guys were going to play huge minutes so he kept the practices mentally tough but physically easy. Hoiberg runs way longer, more frequent, more physically taxing practices. The narrative is completely screwed up about how those guys run their teams.

[Ice Man]

When the Sixers were "rebuilding" they were losing games, because they just didn't have the talent to compete. But Brett Brown always got those fringe level players to give their all every night, and he never sat back with a bag of popcorn and just watched the disaster on the court.

Head to the Sixers board and you'll see that they thing he's an idiot coach who is holding the team back. Not many fans think their coaches are good. Then again, I don't think Fred has many supporters from other teams' fans, either.