Is Lauri Markannen a burrito full of skills or a one trick pony?

[coldfish]

Who sells high on second year players?



Well this sounds great of course, but...which better trading FOs regularly do this?

I'm drawing a blank, and not saying this stuff is not commonly done - I just can't think of them. I'm sure they are out there. I doubt it would be a big thing here if it's not true.

http://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=2954127

That was the first consolidation type trade that came to mind.

That was a huge star getting traded, I am glad I asked because I was not thinking about that. This though happens incredibly rarely so pretty much nobody does that. Certainly not the average GM. I was not getting consolidation trades from your post but that is certainly an example of using young players (usually) to help get a big star. The Bulls have been close on a few, like Melo, but certainly it is not their forte.

If you aren't good at trades, the best option is to me is hire someone who is good at trades (even if it's an assistant GM). The second best option to me is to not make that many trades. Some here say the Bulls are bad at trades but post that they want them to make trades. This does not makes sense to me. Although the Butler trade was very good, they are better at drafting and FA overall.

Another example would be Krause trading Brand after his second year for a top 3 pick.

[Red Larrivee]

Another example would be Krause trading Brand after his second year for a top 3 pick.

The Bulls traded a 20/10 PF who became an all-star afterwards, for a project center who never put it all together until after the Bulls traded him.

Not exactly encouraging.

[CoreyVillains]

If you're looking at Lauri to be a 1A option I think you're going to be disappointed. He is going to be much closer in role to someone like Klay Thompson. Their second year numbers are actually eerily similar. Lauri is a great shooter, fully capable of attacking close outs, doesn't need to pound the air out of the ball to be effective, moves well defensively on the perimeter but won't have big steal or block rates. He has the makings of a really good player. When we get a coach who instills a real offense, puts his players in their sweet spots, and plays with proper pace; to go along with a point guard who can fully execute said offense, Lauri is going to shine. As of now he has the worst coach in the league, with average to below average point guard play, a supporting cast of mostly G League players, and a toxic organizational stench. It's hard to stomach but we have to give all the kids some time, hope to get a stud in the draft, and then surround the kids with vets. Joel Embiid wasn't even playing games at this point of Philly's rebuild.

[Am2626]

If you're looking at Lauri to be a 1A option I think you're going to be disappointed. He is going to be much closer in role to someone like Klay Thompson. Their second year numbers are actually eerily similar. Lauri is a great shooter, fully capable of attacking close outs, doesn't need to pound the air out of the ball to be effective, moves well defensively on the perimeter but won't have big steal or block rates. He has the makings of a really good player. When we get a coach who instills a real offense, puts his players in their sweet spots, and plays with proper pace; to go along with a point guard who can fully execute said offense, Lauri is going to shine. As of now he has the worst coach in the league, with average to below average point guard play, a supporting cast of mostly G League players, and a toxic organizational stench. It's hard to stomach but we have to give all the kids some time, hope to get a stud in the draft, and then surround the kids with vets. Joel Embiid wasn't even playing games at this point of Philly's rebuild.

The key to this rebuild is going to come down to the player the Bulls draft this summer. I think they have a young core that can develop in a good supporting cast. Lauri and LaVine can become All Stars and be good second and third options on a championship caliber team. They need to get a true number 1 Franchise player in this draft. They also need to get a real coach this summer. Bringing Boylen back next year would be a big mistake.

[kodo]

Another example would be Krause trading Brand after his second year for a top 3 pick.

The Bulls traded a 20/10 PF who became an all-star afterwards, for a project center who never put it all together until after the Bulls traded him.

Not exactly encouraging.

Nope.

Giving up on promising young guys in their rookie contract hasn't had a great track record. Especially shooters.

Oladipo - traded after 3 seasons by ORL, now averaging 19/5/5
Tobias Harris - traded after 2 seasons by MIL, now averaging 21 ppg 8 rpg
Holiday - traded after 4 seasons by PHI, now averaging 21 ppg 8 apg 4 rpg

In most cases, the problem wasn't the player it was the coach / team around them.

[TheSuzerain]

The Klay comparison is apt. Probably less positional value though.

But bottom line is that if Lauri is a top 2 guy on your team, that team is middle of the road at best. If Lauri can be the 3rd or 4th best player on your team, then you'll have something.

[Leslie Forman]

Another example would be Krause trading Brand after his second year for a top 3 pick.

The Bulls traded a 20/10 PF who became an all-star afterwards, for a project center who never put it all together until after the Bulls traded him.

Not exactly encouraging.

Nope.

Giving up on promising young guys in their rookie contract hasn't had a great track record. Especially shooters.

Oladipo - traded after 3 seasons by ORL, now averaging 19/5/5
Tobias Harris - traded after 2 seasons by MIL, now averaging 21 ppg 8 rpg
Holiday - traded after 4 seasons by PHI, now averaging 21 ppg 8 apg 4 rpg

In most cases, the problem wasn't the player it was the coach / team around them.

It sure looks like the Timberwolves sold LaVine and Dunn at the right time. If it wasn't for Taylor, it would have been a fantastic time to ditch Wiggins, too.

[Hugi Mancura]

The Klay comparison is apt. Probably less positional value though.

But bottom line is that if Lauri is a top 2 guy on your team, that team is middle of the road at best. If Lauri can be the 3rd or 4th best player on your team, then you'll have something.

Indiana, Boston, Utah, Milwaukee, Denver, Houston or Clippers none have nothing special as their second guy. These are good teams. Sure if you want to build your team to be iso oriented then I agree with you, because don't really see Lauri as iso oriented player, but there are lot of teams that doesn't have great second guys in their roster and still they are leading their conference or existed in ECF last year. Can Lauri be as good as Middleton from Milwaukee is now? I don't see why not. If you have good defense you don't need exceptional offense.

Sure these teams haven't reached NBA finals, but no-one would call them middle of the road teams right now (well, maybe Clippers and Utah you can). Team oriented offense has risen because of GSW and Lauri is much better in team oriented offense than in ISO offense.

[kodo]

The Bulls traded a 20/10 PF who became an all-star afterwards, for a project center who never put it all together until after the Bulls traded him.

Not exactly encouraging.

Nope.

Giving up on promising young guys in their rookie contract hasn't had a great track record. Especially shooters.

Oladipo - traded after 3 seasons by ORL, now averaging 19/5/5
Tobias Harris - traded after 2 seasons by MIL, now averaging 21 ppg 8 rpg
Holiday - traded after 4 seasons by PHI, now averaging 21 ppg 8 apg 4 rpg

In most cases, the problem wasn't the player it was the coach / team around them.

It sure looks like the Timberwolves sold LaVine and Dunn at the right time. If it wasn't for Taylor, it would have been a fantastic time to ditch Wiggins, too.

Nobody called Lavine and Dunn especially, promising. Maybe Lavine but there were/are still plenty of haters.

Lauri is considered a good catch by most of the NBA.

[coldfish]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/lineups/2019

Was just looking at Markannen's player groupings. Sheesh this looks awful. Him and Portis are -44 points per 100 possessions. I'm not even sure how that's possible.

I checked his rookie year and its not as bad, except that 2 of his worst 3 teammates were Dunn and Lavine.

[Louri]

Lauri as a number 1 option? When Lauri has had 18 or more FG attempts, Bulls are 3/3 in those games. He had 21, 23, 32, 31, 27, 27 points. Ironically Lavine didn’t play in those 3 games they won.

[kodo]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/lineups/2019

Was just looking at Markannen's player groupings. Sheesh this looks awful. Him and Portis are -44 points per 100 possessions. I'm not even sure how that's possible.

I checked his rookie year and its not as bad, except that 2 of his worst 3 teammates were Dunn and Lavine.

Bobby on off #s will be victim to Boylen's "let's go under screens and see if they can shoot 3s" defense since he came back fully only recently. Since Bobby came back, the Bulls defensive rating is 123.6.

If that was a full season defense, it would be the worst in by a large margin, since the worst D in the league is 109-112 in any particular season going back to '96.

The Bulls starting unit #s under Boylen are insanely bad, they only look somewhat normal because Jabari comes in and scores 15-18 instantly. Lauri was our "best" starting defender at a def rating of 137. Kris Dunn had a defensive rating of 150! and an ORating of 93 for an almost -60 net rating.

I agree with you...I didn't think #s like this were possible.

[NecessaryEvil]

At this point, he's a #3 option at best. No growth from last season.

[I beg to differ]

pick, pop, pick, pop, pick, pop, pick, pop

[pipfan]

I see him as a really good 2nd option in a few years.

We should deal Dunn, Lavine and Bobby right now. Build aorund WCJ and Lauri, plus see what Hutch becomes. Add a top 4 pick this summer and some more talent from the deals and keep the rebuild going

[TankForAyton]

I see him as a really good 2nd option in a few years.

We should deal Dunn, Lavine and Bobby right now. Build aorund WCJ and Lauri, plus see what Hutch becomes. Add a top 4 pick this summer and some more talent from the deals and keep the rebuild going

I see very little chance of this happening.

Dunn - 0 value.
LaVine - already paid huge, little value.
Bobby - Whoever trades for him has to pay him, little to no value.

We have no assets to trade for further rebuilding pieces. This team is bad and going to be bad for a while barring a draft homerun.

[ZOMG]

Watching the Atlanta game, seeing Lauri's body language and how he's used this season, I couldn't help but think that other teams must be licking their chops at the thought of Chicago letting him go. They remember how good he was last year (despite all his rookie warts), they can see he looks borderline depressed these days, and they know full well that Chicago's idiot coach isn't doing Markkanen any favors.

Teams probably think they'd turn him into an All Star in two seasons with proper coaching and an offensive system resembling modern NBA basketball. And they could be right.

I also think Hutch is the only other Bulls player with notable trade value at this point. He's another guy who's a fish out of water in Boylen's putrid system, but still starting to find ways to produce.

[Lunartic]

A question we should ask ourselves:

If Lauri were traded to OKC or Charlotte, would his numbers and overall play improve ?

If the answer is yes, then we have a coaching and personnel issue and not a Lauri issue.
We should be focused on finding a coach that fits our player's strengths.

[PaKii94]

I have a lot to say about Lauri but I think I need to make a coherent post before I ramble on about him.

The main thing is that I think us as bulls fans are focusing on the glass half empty with him when we should be looking at glass half full. We know Lauri isn't a game changer once in a generation talent but he is still an elite prospect. This season in my eyes hasn't really lowering his potential ceiling for me.

I take solace in the fact that this is literally the worse situation Lauri could be in (Injury to start the season/miss preseason, going from tank coach to worse tank coach, surrounded by ballhog teammates, looking 'heavy' and less 'mobile') and he still has improved over his rookie season. The scoring flashes are starting to become more consistent.

It's gotten to the point where yesterday, Lauri got 20+ points on mostly drives to the rim ( as people wanted and not 3 point chucking) on good efficiency but that was still a 'poor' game for him.

The only reason I have been watching bulls games this season is to see Lauri so I can dissect his game quite a bit further but that'll take a bit of time to type out that I have to find

[Axolotl]

The most peculiar Markkanen stat to me is dunks. Last season the percentage of his field goals that were dunks (7,9%) was higher than LaVine's this season (6,4%). This season Markkanen's dunk percentage has collapsed to 3,3%. The dunks look to have been replaced with 2 pt shots from 3-16 feet from the basket.

This coincides with many, myself included, seeing Markkanen as slower and less fluid than he was in his rookie season. Also his handle seems to have deteriorated.

Did he add too much mass in the wrong parts of his body? Is it the elbow still bothering him? Is it because he missed time with the ball while he was injured? The opponents planning to stop his dunks (too)? A combination of these?