KC: Zach tired of losing and speaks out

MalagaBulls · Post #1 » by **MalagaBulls** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:53 am

Thought this deserved it's own thread. It seems like he may quietly be turning into one of the team leaders.

erlim · Post #2 » by **erlim** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:59 am

He will probably demand a trade sooner than later.

OnePointSeven · Post #3 » by **OnePointSeven** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:01 am

Hopefully management ears this and does something to put better players and coaches around him.

With all the noise around the team lately, I'm starting to be confident that :
* we'll trade everything we can at the deadline for future assets,
* finish with a bottom 2 record,
* bring in a new coach,
* hope we get a top 2 pick,
* make some smart FA signings this offseason (sign a starter and fill the bench).

Is all this just wishful thinking?

CjayC · Post #4 » by **CjayC** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:13 am

Pay Jay Wright whatever he wants. Boylen ain't it.

MalagaBulls · Post #5 » by **MalagaBulls** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:28 am

The point this thread makes is that one player is now vocal about losing, I don't think he is taking direct shots at Boylen. But because he infers things have to change it is possibly player related and indirectly coaching related, or a combination of both.

MeloRoseNoah · Post #6 » by **MeloRoseNoah** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:49 am

Lol I hope that we trade him for future assets in term of draft picks.

weneeda2guard · Post #7 » by **weneeda2guard** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:48 pm

smh, guy speaks out and cares about winning, and people want to trade him, shame on him for being tired of the losing smh lol

Post #8 » by **GimmeDat** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:10 pm

There's not a player on this roster that shouldn't feel s*** about losing this much and if there are those that don't care I think that says more about who you want or don't want around.

I'm glad he takes it personally and wants better out of this team. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the roster, let alone combined with the coaching, is enough for them for them to will themselves to many, if any, wins.

MisterRoy · Post #9 » by **MisterRoy** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:16 pm

If Boylen was using the players to their strengths and not trying to force them into his style of play, I don't know if we are having this conversation. This is the second time in 5 years the Bulls hire a coach where the players do not match the preferred style of play for the coach. This one is completely on them. Hands. Down.

MalagaBulls · Post #10 » by **MalagaBulls** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:29 pm

Throwing sh** at the wall and happy to be told nothing to see here. Anyone think this will escalate among other players?

Post #11 » by **coldfish** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:36 pm

The downside of losing on purpose is that you ruin the players you have. This team is built to lose and losing shouldn't be surprising to anyone. The big concern is that Chicago has gone out of their way to put Markannen, Dunn and Lavine on the court together with the best available supporting players and they continue to get destroyed.

If those guys were routinely holding even or winning and the Bulls lost games because the g league bench was laying an egg, it would be fine. Right now, the g league bench is routinely outperforming the starters from a plus/minus standpoint. Chicago has a problem.

Post #12 » by **DuckIII** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:53 pm

I feel bad for Lavine. He's obviously a gifted player and a hard worker. Its tough for him that he's been in terrible rebuilding situations his entire career.

But this is what rebuilding looks like and is supposed to look like. "We need to do something!" Um, okay? The roster is extremely young, has no certain future star player (though despite his sophomore plateau I think Lauri is going to be star), and only about 4 guys worth noting at all.

Everyone's all fired up about Boylen, and I don't like him either. But the roster is bad. We're rebuilding through the draft which is what we absolutely should be doing, and its going to take awhile.

For Zach, that blows. For me as a fan, it blows as well but its the right call.

MalagaBulls · Post #13 » by **MalagaBulls** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:58 pm

coldfish wrote:The downside of losing on purpose is that you ruin the players you have. This team is built to lose and losing shouldn't be surprising to anyone. The big concern is that Chicago has gone out of their way to put Markannen, Dunn and Lavine on the court together with the best available supporting players and they continue to get destroyed.

If those guys were routinely holding even or winning and the Bulls lost games because the g league bench was laying an egg, it would be fine. Right now, the g league bench is routinely outperforming the starters from a plus/minus standpoint. Chicago has a problem.

Fish, so are you saying it is more a roster construction problem where the FO is jamming square pegs into round holes? Then if so is that a coaching issue or higher up?

TheFinishSniper · Post #14 » by **TheFinishSniper** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:07 pm

Become better player so you dont lose. That's how greatness works. We had that guy, his statue is somewhere around arena. Can't remember his name now, slipping my mind.

ArtMorte · Post #15 » by **ArtMorte** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:23 pm

He's right. And it won't get better this season. I've made peace with that. The real depressing thought is the possibility of Boylen coaching us next season, too.

aguifs · Post #16 » by **aguifs** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:07 pm

Perfect timing for a trade! Do it while you can Garpax!

DanTown8587 · Post #17 » by **DanTown8587** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:25 pm

Look at the Bulls roster going into this season

PG
Dunn - former top five pick, traded Jimmy Butler to get / Payne - a guy you traded two NBA rotation players + a 2nd for just 16 months ago / Archi - two way guy you're trying to see if there's more too

SG
Lavine - a guy you are paying 19MM a year to / Valentine - former lotto pick

SF
Parker - a guy you just gave 20MM / Holliday - a veteran you signed / Hutchinson - a first you just drafted in the previous draft

PF
Lauri - a guy you drafted #7, traded Jimmy Butler to get / Portis - a former first round pick

C
Carter - a guy you literally just drafted #7 / Lopez - a veteran / Felicio - a guy you gave 4/32 last summer

The idea that this team "tried to lose" or "tried to tank" is simply not true. They seriously thought they were going to contend for the playoffs this year. They thought they'd be Brooklyn this year: a random assortment of veterans and young guys playing together. That never happened because a lot of these guys (read: all of them) have shown they're wildly too inconsistent to be considered players on a good team. I've said for years (Taj v Tyrus!) that consistency is the thing that good teams are built on and what you should strive for.

The problem that I have now going forward with this organization is that they've shown no real ability to win without massive, massive luck (getting Derrick Rose as a #9 lotto team). We can argue forever whether or not you can ever win at a high level with Jimmy Butler but there is a floor that Butler takes you to and it is not like you are guaranteed to be there.

This team's "plan" is quite laughable. They show little to no foresight to anything they're doing and their overall team roster construction is some of the most individually based talent with no concern to five man basketball that the current league has. I don't see how this ever changes without falling backwards into a game changer. The tl;dr is that the Bulls are the Process Sixers with way worse lottery odds and by accident.

TheStig · Post #18 » by **TheStig** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:13 pm

LOL I"m sorry this is funny. Zach wanted his own team and complains it loses! What did he think was going to happen? Zach Lavine isn't leading any team out of the lottery.

Hangtime84 · Post #19 » by **Hangtime84** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:02 pm

TheStig wrote:LOL I"m sorry this is funny. Zach wanted his own team and complains it loses! What did he think was going to happen? Zach Lavine isn't leading any team out of the lottery.

I don’t think wanted his own team. I’ve watched a lot of off season talk he wanted to become a leader and all-star. He putting the effort in, but he didn’t realize how tiring it could be.

Zach wants to win but doesn’t know how.

TheSuzerain · Post #20 » by **TheSuzerain** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:18 pm

DanTown8587 wrote:Look at the Bulls roster going into this season

PG
Dunn - former top five pick, traded Jimmy Butler to get / Payne - a guy you traded two NBA rotation players + a 2nd for just 16 months ago / Archi - two way guy you're trying to see if there's more too

SG
Lavine - a guy you are paying 19MM a year to / Valentine - former lotto pick

SF
Parker - a guy you just gave 20MM / Holliday - a veteran you signed / Hutchinson - a first you just drafted in the previous draft

PF
Lauri - a guy you drafted #7, traded Jimmy Butler to get / Portis - a former first round pick

C
Carter - a guy you literally just drafted #7 / Lopez - a veteran / Felicio - a guy you gave 4/32 last summer

The idea that this team "tried to lose" or "tried to tank" is simply not true. They seriously thought they were going to contend for the playoffs this year. They thought they'd be Brooklyn this year: a random assortment of veterans and young guys playing together. That never happened because a lot of these guys (read: all of them) have shown they're wildly too inconsistent to be considered players on a good team. I've said for years (Taj v Tyrus!) that consistency is the thing that good teams are built on and what you should strive for.

The problem that I have now going forward with this organization is that they've shown no real ability to win without massive, massive luck (getting Derrick Rose as a #9 lotto team). We can argue forever whether or not you can ever win at a high level with Jimmy Butler but there is a floor that Butler takes you to and it is not like you are guaranteed to be there.

This team's "plan" is quite laughable. They show little to no foresight to anything they're doing and their overall team roster construction is some of the most individually based talent with no concern to five man basketball that the current league has. I don't see how this ever changes without falling backwards into a game changer. The tl;dr is that the Bulls are the Process Sixers with way worse lottery odds and by accident.

Exactly correct. This team is entirely made up of GarPax rebuilding pieces (except for the bottom of the bench which are straight up GLeague plugs).

And it still sucks. That means the rebuild sucks so far.

They acquired no future firsts during the rebuild. What you see is pretty much what we got.