PG: Heat got too hot from downtown

[Dresden]

Dunn has 3 bad games, as most of the team and suddenly he is the major problem ?! He never was meant to be 16-18pts per game scorer and finisher,thats Zach's and Markkanen's job! If Dunn has 14pts average on 44% shooting, 6-7 assists average and 5 boards,thats good enough for me.

Dunn had played only 20 games after long absence again and I would say he is on good vs bad 60-40% ratio in games soo far.
I would still keep him around for backup at least ,but of course on solid contract.

He'll have the rest of this season to prove himself. Maybe he can do it. But if he doesn't show some improvement and consistency, I've seen enough.

When he's going good, he's very good. There have been games where he's been the best player on the floor. That's what makes it so frustrating when he has bad games.

[NecessaryEvil]

I was thinking last night, is Zach Lavine really even an average NBA SG? Maybe but not much better.

Meh, we had him as MIP, possible all-star and one of the best players in the east before Boylen/Bulls FO took over.

Now he's playing like an average SG...

[NecessaryEvil]

We shouldn't be playing this style of basketball. Remember, initally they wanted an up tempo offensive mind after Thibs.

The players are not this bad. They've all shown that much. I've never seen a whole squad of young players all regress at the same time before.

[SfBull]

Dunn's had plenty of chances. When this season ends, he'll be the exact same player he's now. Let's not kid ourselves.

Dunn makes good case if we dont get Zion's sweepstakes to get Ja Morant. And then flip Dunn for late pick in draft.

Free agency will have plenty of options for a pg as well. Kemba Walker, Rubio, Rose(back up),Dinwiddie, Isiah Thomas, Rondo, Payton.

Rose If signed should be starter trading Dunn and with Arch as his backup.He is just better than Dunn.

[SfBull]

[quote="mj234eva"]Post game thread with more replies than the game thread. Has to be a first for the Bulls forum.[/quote
It's only natural when we have a weak team like this,as the games are increasingly boring (as Boylen's game is) the game threads are increasingly poor, fanbase getting more and more apathic.

[Mk0]

Apathy is what plagues this board. This team is hard to watch and isn't very likeable.

The coach is a blowhard who is in way over his head and has them walking an offense that is outdated by 20 years and a defense that doesn't defend the primary weapon of a modern day offense.

I have accepted that this is the FOs way of tanking without Silver punishing them.. but that doesn't mean I have to watch this sh!+show.

I get everything I need from YouTube highlights: *Insert Player* had a decent/good first half but then the team falls apart in the 2nd half and loses by 14-20.

[SfBull]

I've always liked Dunn and thought he would eventually overcome his weaknesses, but after yet another 4-13 shooting game, I have to admit he's not the answer at pg. He just has too many strikes against him- can't shoot the 3, doesn't get to the line, wild with the ball, doesn't finish well. It's sad to say, but I don't see that changing. He'll be given the rest of this season to play, and maybe he shows something, but apparently he is who he is as a player, and that's just not a starting pg.

And unfortunately for him the coaching change brought more problems for his development as Boylen's slower offense seems to expose his limitations as point guard.

[SfBull]

I think individually each player has some talent and potential, but neither compliments the other. I’m high on Lauri. He needs a PG giving him easy looks. Dunn is a bench spark. Zach is a JR Smith type.

We need a floor general. Asking Dunn to start is asking for fumbles and mistakes.

Then Wendell... good a prospect as he is, he is a space killer which does zero favors for everybody. He needs a shooting game. Solid defense, but nowhere near Gobert’s impact. Playing him and Lauri... a recipe for struggling. Already saw the story with Taj and KAT.

So yeah, the core sucks.

The whole rebuilding process initiated with Butler's trade was bad planned trusting in unproven and not so complementary players even with the talent that they certainly have.It's somehow easier to say it in retrospect.We need a change of culture beginning with a fresh start at FO level.

[coldfish]

I was thinking last night, is Zach Lavine really even an average NBA SG? Maybe but not much better.

Meh, we had him as MIP, possible all-star and one of the best players in the east before Boylen/Bulls FO took over.

Now he's playing like an average SG...

He played 2 weeks at a really high level and then he went in the tank. All players have hot stretches, his just came at the beginning of the year.

November (pre-Boylen): 22.9p 5.5a 5.5r 38.7%fg 25.0%3p
January (post-Boylen): 20.2p 3.6a 3.4r 45.0%fg 39.5%3p

November has actually been his worst month all season and that was under Hoiberg.

and just so we remember,
October (8 games): 28.1p 3.6a 5.1r 51.0%fg 38.0%3p

If he would have continued that he certainly would have been an all star and one of the best in the East. He stopped a long time ago though. It was like he hit a brick wall in early November.

[SfBull]

I was thinking last night, is Zach Lavine really even an average NBA SG? Maybe but not much better.

Meh, we had him as MIP, possible all-star and one of the best players in the east before Boylen/Bulls FO took over.

Now he's playing like an average SG...

One more reason why I'm missing Fred and Holiday when Lavine played much better than now.

[LateNight]

On Zach:

Meh, we had him as MIP, possible all-star and one of the best players in the east before Boylen/Bulls FO took over.

He played 2 weeks at a really high level and then he went in the tank. All players have hot stretches, his just came at the beginning of the year.

November (pre-Boylen): 22.9p 5.5a 5.5r 38.7%fg 25.0%3p
January (post-Boylen): 20.2p 3.6a 3.4r 45.0%fg 39.5%3p

November has actually been his worst month all season and that was under Hoiberg.

Yeah - there seems to be some seriously revisionist history happening recently. These guys did not look better with Hoiberg coaching.

I think Zach was more suited to Hoiberg's offense, but mostly just because it hid his weaknesses. The flaws in his game don't stand out as much in Hoiberg's offense because everyone on the court was throwing up terrible shots.

[ZOMG]

I've always liked Dunn and thought he would eventually overcome his weaknesses, but after yet another 4-13 shooting game, I have to admit he's not the answer at pg. He just has too many strikes against him- can't shoot the 3, doesn't get to the line, wild with the ball, doesn't finish well. It's sad to say, but I don't see that changing. He'll be given the rest of this season to play, and maybe he shows something, but apparently he is who he is as a player, and that's just not a starting pg.

And unfortunately for him the coaching change brought more problems for his development as Boylen's slower offense seems to expose his limitations as point guard.

Yes and no.

As I've said before, back when the Bulls played Pure Boyball (absolutely no running allowed) Dunn was sort of thriving. Sure, he's a dude who would like to run, but the ultra-slow pace saved him from himself - it prevented him from throwing the ball away on fast breaks and gave him more opportunities to do his tedious "Art of the Midrange" crap in half court.

Then again, when he can't get to the midrange these days, Boylen's static offense ensures that Kris essentially becomes a 100% liability out there. He kills the spacing and is reduced to executing the occasional pick and pop.

[TheJordanRule]

I was thinking last night, is Zach Lavine really even an average NBA SG? Maybe but not much better.

Meh, we had him as MIP, possible all-star and one of the best players in the east before Boylen/Bulls FO took over.

Now he's playing like an average SG...

He played 2 weeks at a really high level and then he went in the tank. All players have hot stretches, his just came at the beginning of the year.

November (pre-Boylen): 22.9p 5.5a 5.5r 38.7%fg 25.0%3p
January (post-Boylen): 20.2p 3.6a 3.4r 45.0%fg 39.5%3p

November has actually been his worst month all season and that was under Hoiberg.

and just so we remember,
October (8 games): 28.1p 3.6a 5.1r 51.0%fg 38.0%3p

If he would have continued that he certainly would have been an all star and one of the best in the East. He stopped a long time ago though. It was like he hit a brick wall in early November.

I feel you on being somewhat underwhelmed by Zach's game if you compare it to what a good SG should be, CF, but please remember that the league doesn't have many average SGs at this time. The position is one of the thinnest in the league, second only to center. And Zach's just 23, with freak athleticism. At the time Zach's 20 mil per year deal was made, I thought it was crazy because Zach's defense was such a concern. But now, at a time when Zach is scoring on good / decent efficiency on massive volume (.557 % on 18.0 attempts per game), while demonstrating the ability to board (4.3 per game) and find assists (also 4.3 per game)at a level that's at least above half of his much older, much less athletic peers at SG, we should be celebrating the fact that the FO's gamble paid off. Even if Zach's defense doesn't improve, he's a net positive-- even moreso if he cut down on some of those typical dumb turnovers. And if Zach's defense DOES improve, look out!