Who thinks we are headed for a 2nd reset after this colossal failure of a season?

[pipfan]

I think we should not wait. Do it now, before we get a 3 game winning streak and fall into the 4th spot

1-keep Lauri, Carter and Hutch
2-Trade Lavine-eat a bad deal and try to get a solid pick for him (Char and Detroit are 2 possible candidates)
3-Dunn/Portis to the Suns for Bender and the 2020 Milw pick
4-Trade Parker and Rolo to take on 2020-expiring bad deals and picks

Go into the summer with a top 4 pick (all of Morant, Zion, Reddish and RJ would fit)
Have other picks to take chances on

5-Fire Boylan this summer-hire Monty Williams (maybe AD comes home to play for a coach he likes a lot?)

[Kurt Heimlich]

Drafting the least valuable position in the league with back to back lotto picks just burned value. Not identifying starting quality point guard talent or two way wing talent just further put this team behind the modern curve. And now adding boylen with his mockery of an antiquated system is the cherry on this terribly built team.

The general anger with GarPax seems to have turned into a general hopeless malaise that nothing will ever change. But my confidence in their ability to build a modern, cohesive unit is at an all time low.

So reset or not, my confidence is very low that they can efficiently build a contending team short of falling into lotto luck talent like zion.

[greenl]

It was a fallacy to think that this was ever going to be a "quick" turn around. You can't dip your toe into the lottery pool and then decide you don't like it and magically be competitive again. The core- if there is one- consists of WCJ and maybe Lauri- and that rests on a lot of assumptions made with a small sample size. As many have stated- this team is years away from a deep playoff run. Embrace the suckage- because it's going to endure for awhile. When there is a thread clamoring for Rawle Atkins to get more playing time- you've gone to a dark place.

[TheSuzerain]

The elephant in the room is that given their rebuilding strategy to date, the Bulls have very little ability to transform the roster. We have our 1st rounder to look forward to, but beyond that we’re stuck.

[MisterRoy]

How is Hutch now part of the core? He's ok, but far from untouchable let alone part of the "core".

Zach, Lauri, and Wendell. I'm keeping them. The rest should be available for trade.

This.


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[SensiBull]

Some embarrassingly cringeworthy 'plans'/predictions in here in an attempt, I suspect, to merely sound informed or visionary.

IIRC, this far out from last year's draft, MPJ was the consensus 1st pick, Doncic wasn't even 'a thing'' yet, and the Bulls expected to be picking at about 4.

Tanking for even a specific PICK, much less a specific player AT that pick, is not a 'plan.'

[contestedlayups]

It hurts me to say this since I'm normally a proponent of patient team building, but I'd blow up this whole s**t show without hesitation. The "core" is rotten, the roster is a disaster of epic proportions. This situation can't be improved with lateral moves anymore.

LaVine doesn't have a future here. He obviously can't play the kind of basketball that's conducive to developing a roster playing modern NBA basketball from the ground up. Trouble is, there isn't any market for Zach - not that there was before. LaVine and the Bulls has been a toxic combination from the start and his 80 million dollar deal was one of the biggest mistakes this franchise has ever made.

I'd only keep WCJ, Lauri and Hutch and stop all talk of a "core".

I agree but disagree to an extent.

The "core" players are being so massively underutilized and drawn down by Boylen's complete ineptitude to adjust mid-game that it's really having a bad effect on their NBA futures. Lavine is fine, he's a scorer and a kind of playmaker that is obviously frustrated with losing and the way the team has been doing so recently. Every team needs a scorer from the perimeter. The issue is that Boylen is freaking atrocious with his philosophies as a whole, which is "slow the pace but allow the opposition to shoot freely!" Doesn't work in this NBA, Jim.

Like I've said in multiple other threads, the players themselves aren't rotten; it's the organization from the FO down. Everyone is in it for themselves and personal gain, not as one. That kind of mindset leads to the season that we've experienced thus far, especially with young players. I was under the assumption that the culture change was real, but after the Hoiberg firing and the subsequent "attempted mutiny" of Boylen, it has been and is the same old Bulls.

[Jimako10]

I am thinking that the central idea behind this rebuild was that Thibs traded us a gold mine. I am not sure that it's wise to assume that that our FO hustled Thibs in a trade.

And to think Butler DID NOT want to be traded, unlike his time in Minnesota. The alternate reality of a Butler+Mirotic core is definitely looking more appealing now.

[TyrusRose2425]

IMO everything about this rebuild is about getting a number 1 pick or true franchise player and what I mean by true franchise player is a guy who can be the best player on a championship winning team. We're gambling big time on getting the 1st pick this season, but we'd be set if we do. Assuming we win it:

PG-??/??/??
SG-Lavine/Valentine/??
SF-Williamson/Hutchinson/??
PF-Markannen/??
C-Carter/??/Felicio

Trade Dunn for whatever you can get. Same for Portis. Even re-sign him then trade him at the next deadline if needed. You then fill out the team with a bunch of veterans who can help this team make a playoff push. Give it maybe 2 seasons and in 2021 make a run at a star free agent or whatever. Or we get even more ambitious and make a 2020 run at Anthony Davis and use Markannen as the main trading piece to get that big 3 of AD, Zion, plus whoever.

[BigUps]

IMO everything about this rebuild is about getting a number 1 pick or true franchise player and what I mean by true franchise player is a guy who can be the best player on a championship winning team. We're gambling big time on getting the 1st pick this season, but we'd be set if we do. Assuming we win it:

PG-??/??/??
SG-Lavine/Valentine/??
SF-Williamson/Hutchinson/??
PF-Markannen/??
C-Carter/??/Felicio

Trade Dunn for whatever you can get. Same for Portis. Even re-sign him then trade him at the next deadline if needed. You then fill out the team with a bunch of veterans who can help this team make a playoff push. Give it maybe 2 seasons and in 2021 make a run at a star free agent or whatever. Or we get even more ambitious and make a 2020 run at Anthony Davis and use Markannen as the main trading piece to get that big 3 of AD, Zion, plus whoever.

Listen, I'm on board with all of this, but I have a hard time solely focusing on the roster. This organization has a stench on it and we need to get rid of that for me to really feel like we have a chance. From Deng to Jimmy to Wade to Thibs to [insert player/coach here], GarPax have left a trail of bodies and stories behind them. We need a clean slate. The roster alone isn't enough IMO.

[TyrusRose2425]

IMO everything about this rebuild is about getting a number 1 pick or true franchise player and what I mean by true franchise player is a guy who can be the best player on a championship winning team. We're gambling big time on getting the 1st pick this season, but we'd be set if we do. Assuming we win it:

PG-??/??/??
SG-Lavine/Valentine/??
SF-Williamson/Hutchinson/??
PF-Markannen/??
C-Carter/??/Felicio

Trade Dunn for whatever you can get. Same for Portis. Even re-sign him then trade him at the next deadline if needed. You then fill out the team with a bunch of veterans who can help this team make a playoff push. Give it maybe 2 seasons and in 2021 make a run at a star free agent or whatever. Or we get even more ambitious and make a 2020 run at Anthony Davis and use Markannen as the main trading piece to get that big 3 of AD, Zion, plus whoever.

Listen, I'm on board with all of this, but I have a hard time solely focusing on the roster. This organization has a stench on it and we need to get rid of that for me to really feel like we have a chance. From Deng to Jimmy to Wade to Thibs to [insert player/coach here], GarPax have left a trail of bodies and stories behind them. We need a clean slate. The roster alone isn't enough IMO.

Eh, winning/money cures all.

[High level]

but I'd blow up this whole s**t show without hesitation.

I'd only keep WCJ, Lauri and Hutch and stop all talk of a "core".

So just to clarify you wouldn't blow this whole s**t show because you're keeping WCJ, Lauri and Hutch

Exactly. WCJ, Lauri, and Hutch played a part in the **** show as well. They all suck.

[transplant]

I don't see a reset. Though things look ugly right now, they're only 1.5 years into the rebuild and they haven't gotten the HC piece anywhere near right yet. While many here have lost faith in the young core, the FO hasn't. They're going to play this thing out over the next couple seasons. It may fail, and if it does, I think Paxson will resign.

As fans, you can do whatever you want, but I suggest you get off the edge of your seat. This management has patience and will use it.

[ChettheJet]

This only year 2 of our rebuild. Markkanen, LaVine and Carter is still not a bad start 1.5 years in with the oldest being 23. We desperately need to land a top 3 pick though.

I agree and things aern't even that bad.

Right now you've got 4 quality starters in

Carter
Lavine
Markkanen
even Dunn would be just fine on a better team. He's not good enough to pull a bad team up but he wouldn't hurt a good starting lineup.

They even have the start of a decent bench in

Hutchison
Archiacono
Harrison

Get a starting 3, a 4-5 to come off the bench and a backup 2 that can shoot from behind the line and it's a playoff team.


People want to constantly bitch about GarPax but here's the thing. They don't have a roster tied up by two or three HUGE long term contracts like people want them to take on to get more lottery picks. Look at WASH, MIA, PORT, and others that signed guys for $20-30M and can't even consider rebuilding because they can't get those guys off the books. Sure the Bulls could trade Lavine but they're not forced to dump him, they signed Parker and with the option they're not stuck with him.

[RememberLu]

No reset will matter unless it involves flushing the turds known as GarPax out of the toilet bowl that is this franchise

[transplant]

No reset will matter unless it involves flushing the turds known as GarPax out of the toilet bowl that is this franchise

Don't hold back like that...tell us what you think.

[dougthonus]

10 games losing streak putting us on pace for 15-20 wins. It buys Garpax another 3-4 years eventhough they have perpetual job security

1. Both head coaches having major issues communicating with the players
2. We see a lot of board chatter regarding overall player talent, roster construction (individual pieces fitting)
3. No tier I FA's will play here and we will have to overpay tier II FA's anyway

To be consise do you think we are essentially headed for another reset where we build around?

Core

1. Zion if we get lucky as our wing
2. Markkanan/Carter as our bigs
3. Hutch as a bench wing
4. LaVine as our vet and SG
5. We draft a PG who can shoot/get to rim to match today's game

Trade for assets

1. We trade Dunn, Portis, Parker for picks and maybe bench assets.
2. We trade Rolo and other vets for anything we can get

Round out core with any picks we get from above
Sign new 2 way contract and vets to round out bench

Punt CAP space until 20/21 at least

This is more or less the plan of the original reset with the addition of possibly trading Dunn. Everything else is probably more or less already the plan at this point. I wouldn't be shocked if they keep Portis, but I would recommend letting him walk if you can't trade him (unless the value becomes really good).

[kulaz3000]

This only year 2 of our rebuild. Markkanen, LaVine and Carter is still not a bad start 1.5 years in with the oldest being 23. We desperately need to land a top 3 pick though.

As you said, to start, those 3 players aren't too bad especially in the second year of the rebuild, but even if we land Zion or whomever else in the upcoming draft and they show Superstar potential as a rookie, we need to consolidate 2 of the core players into a legitimate All-Star calibre player.

Easier said than done of course, however, with the right combination of our players and a future pick, it's possible.

[nomorezorro]

The elephant in the room is that given their rebuilding strategy to date, the Bulls have very little ability to transform the roster. We have our 1st rounder to look forward to, but beyond that we’re stuck.

it's really insane that we're apparently not willing to take on future salary for assets

we won't have any real need for cap space until lauri's rookie contract is up at the earliest. even in a best case scenario, if we're lucky enough to end up with a high pick this season, it'll likely be 3-5 years before our "centerpiece" is good enough for us to make anything more than a token playoff run.

part of a rebuild is that you get to do things that winning teams can't afford to!

[kulaz3000]

This is more or less the plan of the original reset with the addition of possibly trading Dunn. Everything else is probably more or less already the plan at this point. I wouldn't be shocked if they keep Portis, but I would recommend letting him walk if you can't trade him (unless the value becomes really good).

Keeping Portis beyond last season was one of the biggest mistakes so far, in regards to the rebuild.

When we couldn't agree on an extension with him, we should have looked to have traded him right away. With the way he was playing, I think we had a strong possibility of acquiring a first round pick for him, albeit likely a late first round pick, but that's exactly what he should have done.

With his down dip in his play, he will likely command less money, which is good for the Bulls, however, he simply isn't a good fit for our team. I think the best teams, have players who bring different things at every position, and with the Bulls continuing to play Lauri at power forward, we need someone who can bring defensive intensity who isn't a total liability on the offensive end or a small /power forward hybrid is who significantly quicker and more athletic, to provide a different dimension at the power forward position off the bench.