Why not Jabari at SF?

JimmyJammer · Post #1 » by **JimmyJammer** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:38 pm

At this point of the season we have nothing left to lose, so my question is, why not play Jabari at SF to see what we can get out of that. If we are not going to beat teams with our defense, why not try to beat them with our offense? We already know that Jabari is not a good defender, but he might be the second most talented scorer on the team. Additionally, Jabari is not as selfish as people are trying to make it seem. Why play Jabari the same number of minutes in a game as guys like Selden, Harrison, Arci and less than Hutch? Jabari, in addition to scoring, he'll rebound, push the ball and make plays for you. We need to cut minutes for guys like Harrison, Selden and Hutch and push Jabari's minutes up to 30. In fact, I'd start him at SF to see what we can get out of it.

RememberLu · Post #2 » by **RememberLu** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:10 pm

Why? He's gone after this season. Hutch should get more minutes because he's going to be on the team for more than one year

SearsTower · Post #3 » by **SearsTower** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:55 pm

If money was not an issue, I wouldn't mind having Jabari back. He's a good sixth man and has found a nice niche in that role ala Derrick Rose. Would rather have Parker over Portis, that's for sure.

But no, he shouldn't start at SF. Let's see what we have in Hutch.

JimmyJammer · Post #4 » by **JimmyJammer** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:56 pm

RememberLu wrote:Why? He's gone after this season. Hutch should get more minutes because he's going to be on the team for more than one year

Hutch is a perfect candidate for the G-League, to be honest. He makes Tony Snell look like Klay Thompson, just imagine that. He'll wow you occasionally, but his body of work screams for third-stringer at best. He should not have been that far behind considering his age and him having played four years of college basketball.

SearsTower · Post #5 » by **SearsTower** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:02 pm

JimmyJammer wrote:
RememberLu wrote:Why? He's gone after this season. Hutch should get more minutes because he's going to be on the team for more than one year

Hutch is a perfect candidate for the G-League, to be honest. He makes Tony Snell look like Klay Thompson, just imagine that. He'll wow you occasionally, but his body of work screams for third-stringer at best. He should not have been that far behind considering his age and him having played four years of college basketball.

Not sure what you're expecting. He's not going to get plays called for him or have the ball in his hands that often considering he's usually on the floor with Zach, Lauri, and Dunn. He needs to be a 3-D player who hustles and I feel like he's getting better that every day. Personally, I like him a lot more than Snell who was one of my least favorite Bulls ever. Hutch at least shows a pulse.

I don't think Jabari can share the floor with Lauri, Dunn, and Lavine. They all need the ball. Let Jabari keep coming off the bench and give him the keys to the offense in the second unit.

khufure · Post #6 » by **khufure** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:19 pm

how about Zion @ SF and neither Parker nor Hutch long term.

MrSparkle · Post #7 » by **MrSparkle** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:40 pm

JimmyJammer wrote:
RememberLu wrote:Why? He's gone after this season. Hutch should get more minutes because he's going to be on the team for more than one year

Hutch is a perfect candidate for the G-League, to be honest. He makes Tony Snell look like Klay Thompson, just imagine that. He'll wow you occasionally, but his body of work screams for third-stringer at best. He should not have been that far behind considering his age and him having played four years of college basketball.

Bulls scouting dept has just gone to ****, couple that with development. We have fallen short with every pick since Jimmy and Niko.

Lauri and Wendell were good picks at #7, but 7-10 have gotta be the easiest picks in the entire draft. You’re literally choosing from 3 prospects at most who are best-players-available, in many cases 1-2. Skipping WCJ would’ve been risky. DSJ could’ve been considered over Lauri but that ACL tear would’ve made me say no. Ntilikina was a risk (PGs with no jumpshots... wow, how many more of these prospects do we need to see). Mitchell turned into the D Wade-lite late steal anyway.

The other thing , is you don’t have to draft a player every year. I was for trading that Valentine/#14 pick. Bobby was drafted as the 5th, I repeat, 5th big man. On a “contender.”

Picks always hold trade value, regardless how weak the draft. Especially if it’s draft night, it’s not risky at all if you’re getting talent back (not saying sell the pick for cash).

TheJordanRule · Post #8 » by **TheJordanRule** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:40 pm

Jabari doesn't have the athleticism to play SF. At PF the kid's pretty athletic on offense and a step slow on defense. At SF his athleticism advantage disappears on offense, and he's left a couple steps slow on defense. It doesn't make sense. I would deal with the annoyance of playing Jabari out of position in this lost, tanking season if the kid had a track record as a good investment. I was glad our FO gambled at the time we gave him 20 mil per season, but his response to that gamble has been severely lacking. He decided to be lazy during the off season and show up out of shape, made disparaging statements about the importance of playing defense, and reportedly had issues with the coaching staff. He looked better in recent days, but what kind of culture are we building in the clubhouse if this kid gets entitlement minutes at a position he's ill equipped for? Give him the 20 minutes he's been getting at PF and increase or decrease them based on production and attitude. Anything else would be too much.

Am2626 · Post #9 » by **Am2626** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:26 am

JimmyJammer wrote:At this point of the season we have nothing left to lose, so my question is, why not play Jabari at SF to see what we can get out of that. If we are not going to beat teams with our defense, why not try to beat them with our offense? We already know that Jabari is not a good defender, but he might be the second most talented scorer on the team. Additionally, Jabari is not as selfish as people are trying to make it seem. Why play Jabari the same number of minutes in a game as guys like Selden, Harrison, Arci and less than Hutch? Jabari, in addition to scoring, he'll rebound, push the ball and make plays for you. We need to cut minutes for guys like Harrison, Selden and Hutch and push Jabari's minutes up to 30. In fact, I'd start him at SF to see what we can get out of it.

If it helps to get more value in a trade that’s one thing but if it results in more meaningless wins it’s not worth it.

JimmyJammer · Post #10 » by **JimmyJammer** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:40 am

Am2626 wrote:
JimmyJammer wrote:At this point of the season we have nothing left to lose, so my question is, why not play Jabari at SF to see what we can get out of that. If we are not going to beat teams with our defense, why not try to beat them with our offense? We already know that Jabari is not a good defender, but he might be the second most talented scorer on the team. Additionally, Jabari is not as selfish as people are trying to make it seem. Why play Jabari the same number of minutes in a game as guys like Selden, Harrison, Arci and less than Hutch? Jabari, in addition to scoring, he'll rebound, push the ball and make plays for you. We need to cut minutes for guys like Harrison, Selden and Hutch and push Jabari's minutes up to 30. In fact, I'd start him at SF to see what we can get out of it.

If it helps to get more value in a trade that’s one thing but if it results in more meaningless wins it’s not worth it.

So my question to you is, would it not be considered a good thing if Jabari can play well enough to help us win?

HoopsterJones · Post #11 » by **HoopsterJones** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:31 am

Jabari is too big and slow to be a SF. He won’t be here for much longer either.

WindyCityBorn · Post #12 » by **WindyCityBorn** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:39 am

I'd rather give Hutch those minutes. Parker won't be here next season. Plus I don't wins caused by players that have no future here if he could actually help more...which is debateable.

Post #13 » by **Ice Man** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:13 pm

MrSparkle wrote:We have fallen short with every pick since Jimmy and Niko.

Side note, but yeah. I keep hearing about how GarPax draft so well, but their record has been ordinary for 7 years now.

2012 - Teague #21
2013 - Snell #20
2014 - Doug for the #16 and #19 picks
2015 - Portis #22
2016 - Denzel #14
2017 - Lauri #7
2018 - WCJ #7

Some good, some not so good, overall ... eh. Any GM in the league could draft like that.

Now, through 2011 the FO's draft record was remarkable. Without question. But how long does the FO get to ride its past accomplishments? In professional sports, 7 years is a LONG time.

Am2626 · Post #14 » by **Am2626** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:50 pm

JimmyJammer wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
JimmyJammer wrote:At this point of the season we have nothing left to lose, so my question is, why not play Jabari at SF to see what we can get out of that. If we are not going to beat teams with our defense, why not try to beat them with our offense? We already know that Jabari is not a good defender, but he might be the second most talented scorer on the team. Additionally, Jabari is not as selfish as people are trying to make it seem. Why play Jabari the same number of minutes in a game as guys like Selden, Harrison, Arci and less than Hutch? Jabari, in addition to scoring, he'll rebound, push the ball and make plays for you. We need to cut minutes for guys like Harrison, Selden and Hutch and push Jabari's minutes up to 30. In fact, I'd start him at SF to see what we can get out of it.

If it helps to get more value in a trade that’s one thing but if it results in more meaningless wins it’s not worth it.

So my question to you is, would it not be considered a good thing if Jabari can play well enough to help us win?

Nothing good comes out of winning meaningless games this year. They wouldn’t even be able to make the playoffs even if they started winning games now. All it will do is hurt their draft position. I know the lottery odds have been leveled but total wins still makes a difference in lottery odds and what your draft floor ends up being.

kodo · Post #15 » by **kodo** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:27 pm

Ice Man wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:We have fallen short with every pick since Jimmy and Niko.

Side note, but yeah. I keep hearing about how GarPax draft so well, but their record has been ordinary for 7 years now.

2012 - Teague #21
2013 - Snell #20
2014 - Doug for the #16 and #19 picks
2015 - Portis #22
2016 - Denzel #14
2017 - Lauri #7
2018 - WCJ #7

Some good, some not so good, overall ... eh. Any GM in the league could draft like that.

Now, through 2011 the FO's draft record was remarkable. Without question. But how long does the FO get to ride its past accomplishments? In professional sports, 7 years is a LONG time.

Foreman has been a crappy draft GM (2012+, exception Butler).
Paxson (from Krause to Baby Bulls through Rose; Markkanen & WCJ) has been pretty good, albeit it with limited ceilings until we lucked into Rose.

Who will make the call on draft night this summer, who knows. Michael R?

I don't disagree there's not much accountability for the basketball side of the FO, but wishing for ownership to clean house is just a pipe dream at this point. JR didn't care much about the team's performance before and recently he's admitted he cares even less now, and so ceded all control to Michael.

Hangtime84 · Post #16 » by **Hangtime84** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:00 pm

Tanking involves playing young players and other long term assets.

Some fans might not be happy about that like the OP. Suggest becoming a wizards fan because that owner said he'll never tank.

MeloRoseNoah · Post #17 » by **MeloRoseNoah** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:55 am

Hangtime84 wrote:Tanking involves playing young players and other long term assets.

Some fans might not be happy about that like the OP. Suggest becoming a wizards fan because that owner said he'll never tank.

Complete bull. The Wizards owner wants to tank. That's the main reason why they shut down J Wall for the reason.

The problem is that Bradley Beal is too good to tank against the likes of the Bulls, Suns, and Cavs.

Hangtime84 · Post #18 » by **Hangtime84** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:46 am

MeloRoseNoah wrote:
Hangtime84 wrote:Tanking involves playing young players and other long term assets.

Some fans might not be happy about that like the OP. Suggest becoming a wizards fan because that owner said he'll never tank.

Complete bull. The Wizards owner wants to tank. That's the main reason why they shut down J Wall for the reason.

The problem is that Bradley Beal is too good to tank against the likes of the Bulls, Suns, and Cavs.

This from 5 days ago

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/01/17/ted-leonsis-wizards-will-never-ever-tank/?utm_term=.23663d53eb2d

“We just played Philadelphia, and they have shoes that say ‘Trust the Process,’ ” Leonsis said. “And they were really, really bad for seven years. And I looked when we beat them at home, they had two guys that they picked in the first round in the lineup. So, you know, that process is pretty risky in and of itself. I don’t think you can tell players, coaches, staff: ‘Don’t make the playoffs and tank!’ We will never, ever tank.

MeloRoseNoah · Post #19 » by **MeloRoseNoah** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:54 am

What are you expecting him to say? Owners and front office people are not stupid enough to say that we're tanking unless they want to face consequences from Silver.

Their action of shutting down John Wall for the rest of the season tells me that they want to tank, just like Memphis Grizzlies last year shutting down Conley for the tank despite their front office people talking about a playoff push.

My point is not to care much about sound bites from these guys. I'm judging people by their actions. So far, the Wizards want to tank this year along with a bunch of other non-playoff teams including again the Memphis Grizzlies.

The tankathon will become intense in 2-3 months when teams will gut their rosters or publish fake injuries. It's to the advantage of the Bulls to keep our key tank commanders in order to maintain our L lead over teams like the Hawks and the Grizzlies.

kodo · Post #20 » by **kodo** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:23 pm

Per 36 minutes stats since Jabari started playing again. Small sample size warning, only 5 games.

Code: Select all

Parker       28.0 pts 57.9% fg  9.0 rbs 4.3 ast   +0.4
Markkanen    21.5 pts 44.3% fg  8.1 rbs 0.5 ast   -9.3
Lavine       20.6 pts 37.8% fg  4.1 rbs 5.3 ast   -10.3
Dunn          9.5 pts 34.0% fg  4.4 rbs 6.7 ast   -13.7
Hutchison    12.4 pts 57.6% fg  7.7 rbs 0.8 ast   -4.4 
Portis       19.8 pts 41.3% fg 12.8 rbs 4.1 ast   -14.0

Granted Parker isn't in the tip-off going against starters, even if you reduce his #s to compensate for that they're still strong and in no way DNP quality when the team's bench (and starters) are this bad.