Kyler: Bulls Have Worst Rep Amongst Agents

[Betta Bulleavit]

Wow. A lot to sort through here.

To start, Johnnyvann’s account of things definitely seems to be accurate with what is now common knowledge as far as Jordan is concerned. Jordan knew his value as well as anybody and didn’t feel like he owed the organization any more discounts. Having said that, Jordan wanted to be here. If he didn’t, JR would’ve never had the opportunity to beat a NY offer. Jordan could have just left. So that tells me that everything else was more about business. Do I believe Jordan would have left? Yes. Do I believe he ever wanted to? No.

Secondly, as far as JR stating that he’d live to regret the contract, technically he did. That contract laid the foundation for the very contracts that we see today that everyone seems to be getting. The idea of the supermax...can anyone tell the contract that set the stage for that? Who was the team and who was the player that got it?

The bottom line is that people can’t seem to draw the distinction between a tight wad and a cheapo. JR is a tight wad. A guy that will spend money but is just very selective about how he does so. A cheapo is one that is looking for every good or service for as cheap as possible. One that simply does not like to spend under any circumstances.

As it pertains to the topic at hand, I do feel like the team’s relationships with their coaches has been an abomination and they get deserved flak for that. However, they’ve done well by A LOT of players over the years and any agent that can’t see that must have their own personal agendas.

[transplant]

Not gonna call you a liar, cause I know no better. Sounds crazy knowing how negotiations usually work in sports, but good on the Bulls if that's how it went down.

I had never read Lazenby's account of the negotiations (I think the book was published in 2016 or '17). It changes the way I look at the '96 signing. My viewpoint was shaped by the reports at the time:

"This is something Jerry and I agreed upon," he (Jordan) told the Associated Press. "It really didn't take any negotiations, which is the way I wanted it. I'm very happy with the agreement we have."

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-07-13-sp-23758-story.html

It was quite simple. All Bulls Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf had to do was decide how much Michael Jordan was worth to his team and to Chicago, let Jordan know and hope Jordan would be satisfied with the numbers.

The ball then would be in Jordan's court. If Jordan liked what he saw, he would stick around.

That is just how easily things worked out leading up to Friday, when Jordan agreed to a one-year deal. Jordan became the first in this summer's deep NBA free-agent pool to come to terms. Financial details were not disclosed, but Jordan is believed to have settled for close to $30 million.

"Once we were able to speak, the total elapsed time of our phone calls was less than one hour," Reinsdorf said of his dealing with Jordan.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1996-07-13-9607130144-story.html

Anyway, Lazenby's a good writer. He had good sources. I withdraw what I wrote earlier. I've been educated. Thanks.

[Leslie Forman]

You ever wonder why Horace Grant, the second best player on the team who was in his prime and just made the All-Star game, left even though absolutely nobody on the team was on a high salary?

Well read up.

In a news conference last week, Reinsdorf also accused Grant of feigning injury and illness during the season-the "blue flu," in Reinsdorf's words-which contributed to the Bulls losing the regular-season Eastern Conference title and home-court advantage through the playoffs.

Reinsdorf must've really given him a hell of a deal to get him back in the franchise.

[transplant]

Reinsdorf must've really given him a hell of a deal to get him back in the franchise.

So you think Reinsdorf outbid Orlando this time?

[johnnyvann840]

Not gonna call you a liar, cause I know no better. Sounds crazy knowing how negotiations usually work in sports, but good on the Bulls if that's how it went down.

I had never read Lazenby's account of the negotiations (I think the book was published in 2016 or '17). It changes the way I look at the '96 signing. My viewpoint was shaped by the reports at the time:

"This is something Jerry and I agreed upon," he (Jordan) told the Associated Press. "It really didn't take any negotiations, which is the way I wanted it. I'm very happy with the agreement we have."

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-07-13-sp-23758-story.html

It was quite simple. All Bulls Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf had to do was decide how much Michael Jordan was worth to his team and to Chicago, let Jordan know and hope Jordan would be satisfied with the numbers.

The ball then would be in Jordan's court. If Jordan liked what he saw, he would stick around.

That is just how easily things worked out leading up to Friday, when Jordan agreed to a one-year deal. Jordan became the first in this summer's deep NBA free-agent pool to come to terms. Financial details were not disclosed, but Jordan is believed to have settled for close to $30 million.

"Once we were able to speak, the total elapsed time of our phone calls was less than one hour," Reinsdorf said of his dealing with Jordan.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1996-07-13-9607130144-story.html

Anyway, Lazenby's a good writer. He had good sources. I withdraw what I wrote earlier. I've been educated. Thanks.

I highly recommend the book. It's a great read. Goes deep into Jordan's past (all the way back to his great grandfather) and gives you a real look into his psyche and what makes him tick.

His sources are good and regarding the subject we were just discussing the source is THE source. It's Michael himself as much of the book is full of Michael quotes from interviews with Lazenby. He is fair and gave all parties involved a chance to give their side on most matters. I enjoyed it and steamrolled through it really quickly. Here you go.....

https://archive.org/stream/MichaelJordanTheLife/Michael%20Jordan%20The%20Life_djvu.txt

[Am2626]

Yes, that much is known. I remember the amounts.



Doesn't seem you knew the answers to my other questions either, and the above statement is fact. So you're telling me that MJ's contract is up, or could be extended- and the Bulls just came to the table, and offered that amount without any provocation?

Not gonna call you a liar, cause I know no better. Sounds crazy knowing how negotiations usually work in sports, but good on the Bulls if that's how it went down.

That's not how it went down. Read my posts above for the truth, right from MJ's own mouth (and Falk's and Bulls personnel at the time it happened). In fact, it went down quite contrarily. The only things in question were did JR include the word "might", or not, in his infamous statement about "living to regret" paying MJ the first $30M plus.

That mentality has not gone away from this organization. If you are a good coach or a star player, you are not an equal partner but a down the chain employee. It hurts the organization when they hire strong personalities like Thibs or a player like Jimmy. Rose was not one and that's why he got some time to rebound. If Rose had Jimmy's personality in 2012, he would have been gone quickly.

This is why you need a new front office to share decision making and value different opinions ( ironic if you consider Reinsdorf's letter to Thibs). They would have had big time issues with Lebron if he had signed in 2010.

Absolutely and that has always been the crutch of this organization. I wish the Reinsdorfs could be forced out somehow. I heard that the minority owners of the Lakers may be pushing to buyout Jeanie Buss. Who exactly makes up the minority ownership of the Bulls?

[Peelboy]

You ever wonder why Horace Grant, the second best player on the team who was in his prime and just made the All-Star game, left even though absolutely nobody on the team was on a high salary?

Well read up.

In a news conference last week, Reinsdorf also accused Grant of feigning injury and illness during the season-the "blue flu," in Reinsdorf's words-which contributed to the Bulls losing the regular-season Eastern Conference title and home-court advantage through the playoffs.

Reinsdorf must've really given him a hell of a deal to get him back in the franchise.

IIRC the story at the time was that JR and Horace worked out a deal face to face and then while it was being drawn up, Horace's agent kiboshed it, Horace reneged, and JR was pissed at Grant going back on his word. That's what I recall anyway. Hence the bad blood and the comments from JR (which are generally unusual).

[GameBredAPBT]

League Circles is clearly the Bulls mole we constantly hear about. Nothing else can explain it. Who on earth roots for the greedy 1%ers? People like the Reinsdorfs are the enemy. You root for the young black men that make this league go, and as a franchise owner in 2019, you give players the respect they deserve, and treat them as equals as much as you possibly can.

The scum Reinsdorfs run the Bulls like a plantation in southern murica circa 1798. Heck, the entire 90s Bulls run was basically a player/coaching staff crusade against the FO, who clearly didn't care whether or not they won or lost, so long as they could feel like they were in control & collect some form of revenue off the backs of these kids. No one has EVER liked the Reinsdorf regime, nor spoken highly of them & their ways. They've literally always been viewed as greedy trash.

In 2019, proud young black men run the League. They're realising that they have more power than ever before, and post-Sterling, they rightfully refuse to put up with being treated like garbage by some fat old racist miser.

[Betta Bulleavit]

League Circles is clearly the Bulls mole we constantly hear about. Nothing else can explain it. Who on earth roots for the greedy 1%ers? People like the Reinsdorfs are the enemy. You root for the young black men that make this league go, and as a franchise owner in 2019, you give players the respect they deserve, and treat them as equals as much as you possibly can.

The scum Reinsdorfs run the Bulls like a plantation in southern murica circa 1798. Heck, the entire 90s Bulls run was basically a player/coaching staff crusade against the FO, who clearly didn't care whether or not they won or lost, so long as they could feel like they were in control & collect some form of revenue off the backs of these kids. No one has EVER liked the Reinsdorf regime, nor spoken highly of them & their ways. They've literally always been viewed as greedy trash.

In 2019, proud young black men run the League. They're realising that they have more power than ever before, and post-Sterling, they rightfully refuse to put up with being treated like garbage by some fat old racist miser.

As an African American male, I am proud to say that this is the biggest load of bull malarkey I’ve read on this board in a long while. How many white players have made over 100M playing for the Bulls? Now how many black players have? Oh, such a slave show isn’t it?? I suppose this mentality would also jive well with how badly they’ve treated all of their white coaches too. Knock this mess off.

[GameBredAPBT]

League Circles is clearly the Bulls mole we constantly hear about. Nothing else can explain it. Who on earth roots for the greedy 1%ers? People like the Reinsdorfs are the enemy. You root for the young black men that make this league go, and as a franchise owner in 2019, you give players the respect they deserve, and treat them as equals as much as you possibly can.

The scum Reinsdorfs run the Bulls like a plantation in southern murica circa 1798. Heck, the entire 90s Bulls run was basically a player/coaching staff crusade against the FO, who clearly didn't care whether or not they won or lost, so long as they could feel like they were in control & collect some form of revenue off the backs of these kids. No one has EVER liked the Reinsdorf regime, nor spoken highly of them & their ways. They've literally always been viewed as greedy trash.

In 2019, proud young black men run the League. They're realising that they have more power than ever before, and post-Sterling, they rightfully refuse to put up with being treated like garbage by some fat old racist miser.

As an African American male, I am proud to say that this is the biggest load of bull malarkey I’ve read on this board in a long while. How many white players have made over 100M playing for the Bulls? Now how many black players have? Oh, such a slave show isn’t it?? I suppose this mentality would also jive well with how badly they’ve treated all of their white coaches too. Knock this mess off.

They treat ALL of their employees like pure crap & always have, not just the talent. It's the Reinsdorfs, their FO goons/yes men, and literally everyone else is completely beneath them & totally expendable.

The current president of ops had zero qualms about getting violent with a head coach, and literally nothing was done about it. The Krause comment about cornrows to Darius Miles? His belittling, racist remarks to Pippen regarding a copy of the trophy, or whatever it was? Again, ALL of that comes from upstairs. In any healthy organization, these scumbags would have been fired. But in Chicago, they're rewarded.

Again, the Bulls should be THE premier destination for free agents in the NBA, and yet, no star players want to touch the org with a ten foot pole. There is a very obvious reason for that.

[Betta Bulleavit]

League Circles is clearly the Bulls mole we constantly hear about. Nothing else can explain it. Who on earth roots for the greedy 1%ers? People like the Reinsdorfs are the enemy. You root for the young black men that make this league go, and as a franchise owner in 2019, you give players the respect they deserve, and treat them as equals as much as you possibly can.

The scum Reinsdorfs run the Bulls like a plantation in southern murica circa 1798. Heck, the entire 90s Bulls run was basically a player/coaching staff crusade against the FO, who clearly didn't care whether or not they won or lost, so long as they could feel like they were in control & collect some form of revenue off the backs of these kids. No one has EVER liked the Reinsdorf regime, nor spoken highly of them & their ways. They've literally always been viewed as greedy trash.

In 2019, proud young black men run the League. They're realising that they have more power than ever before, and post-Sterling, they rightfully refuse to put up with being treated like garbage by some fat old racist miser.

As an African American male, I am proud to say that this is the biggest load of bull malarkey I’ve read on this board in a long while. How many white players have made over 100M playing for the Bulls? Now how many black players have? Oh, such a slave show isn’t it?? I suppose this mentality would also jive well with how badly they’ve treated all of their white coaches too. Knock this mess off.

They treat ALL of their employees like pure crap & always have, not just the talent. It's the Reinsdorfs, their FO goons/yes men, and literally everyone else is completely beneath them & totally expendable.

The current president of ops had zero qualms about getting violent with a head coach, and literally nothing was done about it. The Krause comment about cornrows to Darius Miles? His belittling, racist remarks to Pippen regarding a copy of the trophy, or whatever it was? Again, ALL of that comes from upstairs. In any healthy organization, these scumbags would have been fired. But in Chicago, they're rewarded.

Again, the Bulls should be THE premier destination for free agents in the NBA, and yet, no star players want to touch the org with a ten foot pole. There is a very obvious reason for that.

Again, this is a bunch of sensational nonsense. This organization has some black eyes no doubt. But what you are saying is extreme, baseless and ridiculous. Jerry Krause has archaic views on what he thought was professional or unprofessional. It was that very archaic way of thinking that got him fired by......ding ding ding. JR. It was also JR that gave Pippen a 2 year contract that ensured that he’d retire as a Bull. A contract that nobody else was offering Scottie. It was also JR that advised Scottie against his last contract that he signed before he was traded to the Rockets. Rose hugging it up with JR. Signing off on a contract offer to a minority baseball player that would have been one of the richest in baseball history had he accepted it. Constantly retaining Kenny Williams (black) even during times when he wasn’t particularly good at his job. The Ben Wallace contract. The Boozer contract. The Rose contract. The Wade contract even after Wade said the crap that he did back in 2010.

I’m done with this discussion.

[Leslie Forman]

You ever wonder why Horace Grant, the second best player on the team who was in his prime and just made the All-Star game, left even though absolutely nobody on the team was on a high salary?

Well read up.

In a news conference last week, Reinsdorf also accused Grant of feigning injury and illness during the season-the "blue flu," in Reinsdorf's words-which contributed to the Bulls losing the regular-season Eastern Conference title and home-court advantage through the playoffs.

Reinsdorf must've really given him a hell of a deal to get him back in the franchise.

IIRC the story at the time was that JR and Horace worked out a deal face to face and then while it was being drawn up, Horace's agent kiboshed it, Horace reneged, and JR was pissed at Grant going back on his word. That's what I recall anyway. Hence the bad blood and the comments from JR (which are generally unusual).

Read the article, they go into it there.

Grant and Sexton said Grant immediately called Sexton from his car and said that Reinsdorf had taken advantage of him. "Horace will admit now that the minute (Reinsdorf asked him to sign), he should have walked out of the room," Sexton said. "But he was trying to be respectful.

Basically, Reinsdorf tried to take advantage of Grant and get him to sign a deal in an "informal" meeting without his agent. That's super shady small-time BS you are not supposed to do. The kind of BS agents sh*t on you for.

[musiqsoulchild]

League Circles is clearly the Bulls mole we constantly hear about. Nothing else can explain it. Who on earth roots for the greedy 1%ers? People like the Reinsdorfs are the enemy. You root for the young black men that make this league go, and as a franchise owner in 2019, you give players the respect they deserve, and treat them as equals as much as you possibly can.

The scum Reinsdorfs run the Bulls like a plantation in southern murica circa 1798. Heck, the entire 90s Bulls run was basically a player/coaching staff crusade against the FO, who clearly didn't care whether or not they won or lost, so long as they could feel like they were in control & collect some form of revenue off the backs of these kids. No one has EVER liked the Reinsdorf regime, nor spoken highly of them & their ways. They've literally always been viewed as greedy trash.

In 2019, proud young black men run the League. They're realising that they have more power than ever before, and post-Sterling, they rightfully refuse to put up with being treated like garbage by some fat old racist miser.

This feels right to many people, but is actually fundamentally wrong.

You can use the same logic for any marginalized group and ignore the fallacy in it. Do you think the marginalized white male from the Midwest that once was a staple of the Democratic party and now is going to re-elect Trump doesnt feel the same way?

Every one who uses your logic will feel marginalized. And victimized. However, it's not real and is largely missing the point.

[jnrjr79]

League Circles is clearly the Bulls mole we constantly hear about. Nothing else can explain it. Who on earth roots for the greedy 1%ers? People like the Reinsdorfs are the enemy. You root for the young black men that make this league go, and as a franchise owner in 2019, you give players the respect they deserve, and treat them as equals as much as you possibly can.

The scum Reinsdorfs run the Bulls like a plantation in southern murica circa 1798. Heck, the entire 90s Bulls run was basically a player/coaching staff crusade against the FO, who clearly didn't care whether or not they won or lost, so long as they could feel like they were in control & collect some form of revenue off the backs of these kids. No one has EVER liked the Reinsdorf regime, nor spoken highly of them & their ways. They've literally always been viewed as greedy trash.

In 2019, proud young black men run the League. They're realising that they have more power than ever before, and post-Sterling, they rightfully refuse to put up with being treated like garbage by some fat old racist miser.

I don't know Jerry Reinsdorf personally. I don't know whether he's a good person or not. But it's probably worth pointing out that he's the son of Jewish immigrants from Poland. He grew up in Brooklyn. His father sold sewing machines for a living, and not terribly successfully. He didn't come from money. In some ways, his background is not so dissimilar than a lot of players in the NBA.

[DuckIII]

League Circles is clearly the Bulls mole we constantly hear about. Nothing else can explain it. Who on earth roots for the greedy 1%ers? People like the Reinsdorfs are the enemy. You root for the young black men that make this league go, and as a franchise owner in 2019, you give players the respect they deserve, and treat them as equals as much as you possibly can.

The scum Reinsdorfs run the Bulls like a plantation in southern murica circa 1798. Heck, the entire 90s Bulls run was basically a player/coaching staff crusade against the FO, who clearly didn't care whether or not they won or lost, so long as they could feel like they were in control & collect some form of revenue off the backs of these kids. No one has EVER liked the Reinsdorf regime, nor spoken highly of them & their ways. They've literally always been viewed as greedy trash.

In 2019, proud young black men run the League. They're realising that they have more power than ever before, and post-Sterling, they rightfully refuse to put up with being treated like garbage by some fat old racist miser.

I think you are the Bulls mole, and an extremely clever one indeed. Only such a steaming pile of dog **** like this could energize members of the fan base to actually defend the honor of ownership. You’re a smooth one no doubt, but I’m onto your double agent ways.

[League Circles]

League Circles is clearly the Bulls mole we constantly hear about. Nothing else can explain it. Who on earth roots for the greedy 1%ers? People like the Reinsdorfs are the enemy. You root for the young black men that make this league go, and as a franchise owner in 2019, you give players the respect they deserve, and treat them as equals as much as you possibly can.

The scum Reinsdorfs run the Bulls like a plantation in southern murica circa 1798. Heck, the entire 90s Bulls run was basically a player/coaching staff crusade against the FO, who clearly didn't care whether or not they won or lost, so long as they could feel like they were in control & collect some form of revenue off the backs of these kids. No one has EVER liked the Reinsdorf regime, nor spoken highly of them & their ways. They've literally always been viewed as greedy trash.

In 2019, proud young black men run the League. They're realising that they have more power than ever before, and post-Sterling, they rightfully refuse to put up with being treated like garbage by some fat old racist miser.

Why the **** are you on this message board?

Masochistic troll.

[HomoSapien]

Let's get back on topic and stop focusing on individual posters.

[johnnyvann840]

League Circles is clearly the Bulls mole we constantly hear about. Nothing else can explain it. Who on earth roots for the greedy 1%ers? People like the Reinsdorfs are the enemy. You root for the young black men that make this league go, and as a franchise owner in 2019, you give players the respect they deserve, and treat them as equals as much as you possibly can.

The scum Reinsdorfs run the Bulls like a plantation in southern murica circa 1798. Heck, the entire 90s Bulls run was basically a player/coaching staff crusade against the FO, who clearly didn't care whether or not they won or lost, so long as they could feel like they were in control & collect some form of revenue off the backs of these kids. No one has EVER liked the Reinsdorf regime, nor spoken highly of them & their ways. They've literally always been viewed as greedy trash.

In 2019, proud young black men run the League. They're realising that they have more power than ever before, and post-Sterling, they rightfully refuse to put up with being treated like garbage by some fat old racist miser.

I don't know Jerry Reinsdorf personally. I don't know whether he's a good person or not. But it's probably worth pointing out that he's the son of Jewish immigrants from Poland. He grew up in Brooklyn. His father sold sewing machines for a living, and not terribly successfully. He didn't come from money. In some ways, his background is not so dissimilar than a lot of players in the NBA.

This is a great point. As critical as I can be of the Bulls FO, I think it's ridiculous to turn this into a racial issue. I honestly don't think Jerry Reinsdorf is a racist in any way shape or form. I think his biggest mistake is his undying loyalty. It's why Gar Forman and Paxson are still running things. JR has shown a lot of kindness to a lot of people of all different races during his tenure as owner of the Bulls and the Sox. I think BetterBulleavit said it best, JR doesn't like to part with his money if he doesn't have to. That is why he is worth a few billion dollars despite coming from a poor family himself.

[ShadyMoney]

I don’t believe the bulls are dishonest, but they go about things in a dishonest way.