Kyler: Bulls Have Worst Rep Amongst Agents

[TheFinishSniper]

Not amongs agents, but amongst players. Nobody wants to play for this franchise until it's either traded here or drafted here (till they experience it). Our front office is to blame for this because they operate like North Korea of NBA teams. They dont allow national media to peak into their offices for news and reports, they have basically ZERO national presence overall. I wonder why They operate exclusively through small outlets like KC who only reports when papa GarPax approves it. National media like Woj pick up something only when it goes through official NBA channels.


Given dislike from national media, Bulls fans etc. how they operate front offices closes door indirectly even further for players to not know what's going on in a team, franchise making even situation difficult for agents to recommend it as destination. Given players talk to their rep they basically need to take "word for word" from their rep what Bulls told them, making it even more unlikely for players to trust it.

It's on going circle. Bulls maybe can offer from thin air "big market", money (when they have capspace), but nobody is coming here "as Bulls are my destination" and for a reason.

We always blame GarPax, but we need to start blaming Jerry and Michael because they are ones who keep them hired. People dont hate Suns front office, they hate their owner. And want them to sell it, we need to start doing same

[transplant]

The Bulls have messy divorces with players and aren't viewed as modern. No one cares about how we treat borderline guys. All people care about is how we treat Pippen and Jordan in their primes, how things ended with Rose, Noah, Wade, Butler, Jabari, etc.

Wait a minute. Jordan was paid unheard of salaries in his last several years with the team. Hell, I think he was paid an annual salary that was right around the team max. And yeah, he was absolutely worth it. I seem to recall that Pippen wanted his extension despite the fact that Reindorf tried to talk him out of it. When the dynasty was broken up, Pippen was sent to a good situation (Houston) for nothing (Roy Rogers). Noah was done. Wade? What the hell did we do to him? Butler was strategically traded as part of a rebuild. Jabari? Seriously, **** Jabari. What a worthless piece of ****.

MJ was worth it. He was worth MORE than what they paid him even. So why the public whining by the owner? Every team in the league would've lined up to pay MJ.

Pippen got signed and traded, not all that uncommon. What team gives him the middle finger, and refuses a S&T after helping them win 6 titles?

Why are these decisions, that any team (except maybe some of the worst franchises in the league) would have made, such a credit to the Bulls reputation?

That's the expected. No one remembers the expected. They do remember the well-publicized bad relationship MJ/Pip/Phil had with the FO.

I agree re: Wade, I don't recall hearing anything where he was personally wronged. It is known that Wade, and other stars like KG sure as hell remember the bad blood of the dynasty stars and the FO.

Yes, Noah was done. However Reinsdorf's public comments went beyond dumb. Especially when it comes to a fan favorite. Not so good for the ole rep.

Agreed re: Jabari. **** Jabari. If anything, their rep should take a dive for giving that bum such a big contract.

We can all agree that MJ was worth what the Bulls paid him, but they clearly broke new ground when they did it.

As for the rest, if you're saying that the Bulls just dealt with their star players the way a good organization would deal with their exiting good players, then we're in violent agreement.

[GameBredAPBT]

Well duh. The bulls are run by a miserable, miserly old racist, his doofus kid, and two random goons. It's basically a villain squad from some early 90s cartoon. Remember the "corn rows" comment to darius miles & his mom? The one that turned Brand off from playing for these scum suckers? You know that comment came from upstairs. That stuff gets around.

Not to get too deep into it, but there is always a very strong tendency in America, a downright third world-ish one, to give a lot of unwarranted respect to old rich white guys. They're the ones who "know what they're talking about." They "understand how the world really works." They "didn't mean it like that."

This is how you still have people in Chicago defending Reinsdorf. We're still paying for that goddamned crap bowl in Bridgeport, for christ's sake. People like him are what keep Chicago from meeting its full potential. People like him, Daley, Dollar Bill…classic Chicago scumbags who never gave two craps about actually improving anything that benefits the city.

You aren't getting to deep, you're right on the $$$ and are speaking some real truth. As a European who lived in Chicago for a few years, it's the most racist place I've ever been. And yes, it's run by scum like Reinsdorfs.

It's absolutely what holds Chicago back from taking that final giant leap into TRUE world city.

The bulls org is a great comparison to the city as a whole. Two potentially worle class entities that are run like dime stores in a small town, just so the people way up at the top can eat the lion's share. Pathetic.

Anyways, comments like the cornrows thing get around like wildfire in the League, who's talent pool obviously consists of primarily young, proud African American men. That comment is allegedly what prompted Brand to say "you know what? I'm done, final straw. Trade me". There's never any public apologies for this crap because it's the owner's views & beliefs. A GM, or "president", is merely a mouthpiece. What about when Krause wouldn't let Pippen touch the trophy, or have a replica, or something? Remember that? I'm not sure what it was exactly, but it was absurdly racist & belittling. ALL this stuff gets back to players. The NBA is a relatively small family.

[League Circles]

:oops:

Well duh. The bulls are run by a miserable, miserly old racist, his doofus kid, and two random goons. It's basically a villain squad from some early 90s cartoon. Remember the "corn rows" comment to darius miles & his mom? The one that turned Brand off from playing for these scum suckers? You know that comment came from upstairs. That stuff gets around.

Not to get too deep into it, but there is always a very strong tendency in America, a downright third world-ish one, to give a lot of unwarranted respect to old rich white guys. They're the ones who "know what they're talking about." They "understand how the world really works." They "didn't mean it like that."

This is how you still have people in Chicago defending Reinsdorf. We're still paying for that goddamned crap bowl in Bridgeport, for christ's sake. People like him are what keep Chicago from meeting its full potential. People like him, Daley, Dollar Bill…classic Chicago scumbags who never gave two craps about actually improving anything that benefits the city.

You aren't getting to deep, you're right on the $$$ and are speaking some real truth. As a European who lived in Chicago for a few years, it's the most racist place I've ever been. And yes, it's run by scum like Reinsdorfs.

It's absolutely what holds Chicago back from taking that final giant leap into TRUE world city.

The bulls org is a great comparison to the city as a whole. Two potentially worle class entities that are run like dime stores in a small town, just so the people way up at the top can eat the lion's share. Pathetic.

Anyways, comments like the cornrows thing get around like wildfire in the League, who's talent pool obviously consists of primarily young, proud African American men. That comment is allegedly what prompted Brand to say "you know what? I'm done, final straw. Trade me". There's never any public apologies for this crap because it's the owner's views & beliefs. A GM, or "president", is merely a mouthpiece. What about when Krause wouldn't let Pippen touch the trophy, or have a replica, or something? Remember that? I'm not sure what it was exactly, but it was absurdly racist & belittling. ALL this stuff gets back to players. The NBA is a relatively small family.

Read the article I posted.

Do you not believe the detailed account of what happened? If not, why?

What other scummy or racist stuff has ever come out? Honest question. Since you can't remember anything about the other vague Pippen thing. Did you know that Scottie Pippen has worked for the Bulls FO for like 5 years now? That Jerry Krause is dead?

How can something be absurdly racist and belittling if you can't even remember what it is?

Why do vet players take less money to play for us? Like Boozer, Gasol, Wade and Dunleavy?

Your anecdotes about Chicago being racist are important though. Because cities are racist obviously, rather than problem individuals.

[fleet]

No reason why, and no real history of Bulls screwing players/agents over. To the contrary, they've made and kept promises (Hutch), paid guys when they didn't need to (repeatedly, including Jay Williams, etc). And while they (along with most other teams) have whiffed on the top name guys, they have repeatedly signed some pretty high character guys who took less to come here than to go elsewhere. And FWIW, they literally just attracted an AC who left a good situation and was reportedly highly thought of, meaning he almost certainly had other options and chose to come here. None of that screams "crap culture and relationships." The 2 things that people harp on - Thibs and Jimmy both seem with hindsight to be at least as much on the other party.

IMO this is a lot like the old views of Krause as a terrible GM - takes a life of its own, in part because you have local media with an axe to grind who spin everything negative and make **** up at times.

I agree, the reason for this seems unclear. We even have a history of helping players for no reason (Sean Kilpatrick was reportedly a favor to an agent). Maybe our negotiating style regarding our own restricted free-agents is to blame?

Its just Jerry Reinsdorf. Problem persists over generations of Bulls fans. Look at how the White Sox conducted their offer to Machado. They just have to have their funky attitude on many of these high profile business dealings. Common factor is JR. Want to bet this all clears up the day his family sold the team? And or if the ownership structure wasn't so odd?

[League Circles]

No reason why, and no real history of Bulls screwing players/agents over. To the contrary, they've made and kept promises (Hutch), paid guys when they didn't need to (repeatedly, including Jay Williams, etc). And while they (along with most other teams) have whiffed on the top name guys, they have repeatedly signed some pretty high character guys who took less to come here than to go elsewhere. And FWIW, they literally just attracted an AC who left a good situation and was reportedly highly thought of, meaning he almost certainly had other options and chose to come here. None of that screams "crap culture and relationships." The 2 things that people harp on - Thibs and Jimmy both seem with hindsight to be at least as much on the other party.

IMO this is a lot like the old views of Krause as a terrible GM - takes a life of its own, in part because you have local media with an axe to grind who spin everything negative and make **** up at times.

I agree, the reason for this seems unclear. We even have a history of helping players for no reason (Sean Kilpatrick was reportedly a favor to an agent). Maybe our negotiating style regarding our own restricted free-agents is to blame?

Its just Jerry Reinsdorf. Problem persists over generations of Bulls fans. Look at how the White Sox conducted their offer to Machado. They just have to have their funky attitude on many of these high profile business dealings. Common factor is JR. Want to bet this all clears up the day his family sold the team? And or if the ownership structure wasn't so odd?

I agree that it's likely Reinsdorfs (admirable) cold shoulder to the media is the reason for the fake media baseless, sourceless attacks on the Bulls over the years, and that if eventually sold to a group that embarrassingly patronizes the media, we will be unwisely praised by the media.

[fleet]

I agree, the reason for this seems unclear. We even have a history of helping players for no reason (Sean Kilpatrick was reportedly a favor to an agent). Maybe our negotiating style regarding our own restricted free-agents is to blame?

Its just Jerry Reinsdorf. Problem persists over generations of Bulls fans. Look at how the White Sox conducted their offer to Machado. They just have to have their funky attitude on many of these high profile business dealings. Common factor is JR. Want to bet this all clears up the day his family sold the team? And or if the ownership structure wasn't so odd?

I agree that it's likely Reinsdorfs (admirable) cold shoulder to the media is the reason for the fake media baseless, sourceless attacks on the Bulls over the years, and that if eventually sold to a group that embarrassingly patronizes the media, we will be unwisely praised by the media.

Whatever is causing the problem, it would have been productive to rise above and play nice like the other kids in the league. Or not, and keep being willing to receive shots at the franchise's reputation. A dumb, stubborn choice.

[fleet]

I'm sure James Dolan sings along with the tiny violins too. But look! Media isnt the problem. All media do is perform as a function of the data fed into the machine. You want good coverage, drop the shenanigans.

[bullsnewdynasty]

Wasn't it reported that one of the main reasons the Bulls hired Gar as the GM was that he could lie with a straight face to the media? Didn't Butler's camp tell Cowley a while back that Gar is basically a gigantic slimeball?

There are lots of reports like this out there, and it really isn't hard to figure out why. It's not surprising that the top players in the league want nothing to do with this franchise in free agency.

[DuckIII]

The fact that we cn never get significant deals done should tell you that much.

Except for that being false, it would be a good point.

I don’t know if it’s true or not true. Certainly seems plausible. I do know Steve Kyler is generally full of **** regardless.

[Susan]

What exactly was the cornrows comment? I very vaguely remember. Who made it?

IIRC, the comment was from Jerry Krause in a predraft interview with Darius Miles and his mother. Krause allegedly told Miles and his mother that "the Chicago Bulls ownership have a 'no cornrows' policy and that if the Bulls were to draft him would he have a problem getting rid of his corn rows".

I'm not sure if this was ever verified or even if true but it's something Miles claimed happened.

See the article I linked.

lol, an AGENT hated the Bulls was the big ending to that article.

Worst Case: That article is wrong and the Bulls FO was seriously behind the times culturally in 2000 and Krause said some insensitive ****
Best Case: An agent has an ax to grind with the Bulls FO

This whole thread started because there are in fact agents out there that hate dealing with this FO.

[Wingy]

We can all agree that MJ was worth what the Bulls paid him, but they clearly broke new ground when they did it.

As for the rest, if you're saying that the Bulls just dealt with their star players the way a good organization would deal with their exiting good players, then we're in violent agreement.

They did the expected for any franchise that's not on the all-time historically awful list.

They broke new ground w/Michael, yes. However, there never was a Michael like the Michael we saw. Never before seen icon = Never before seen salary. The Bulls did nothing special.

[kulaz3000]

We can all agree that MJ was worth what the Bulls paid him, but they clearly broke new ground when they did it.

As for the rest, if you're saying that the Bulls just dealt with their star players the way a good organization would deal with their exiting good players, then we're in violent agreement.

They did the expected for any franchise that's not on the all-time historically awful list.

They broke new ground w/Michael, yes. However, there never was a Michael like the Michael we saw. Never before seen icon = Never before seen salary. The Bulls did nothing special.

Then what about the time Bulls ownership re-negotiated his original contract to give him one of the healthiest contracts in the NBA after his fourth season? And this was done without even Jordan or his agent asking Jerry to do so.

[HomoSapien]

The ACTUAL reason IMO why media lightweights like this loser trash the Bulls is because the Bulls are old school and don't patronize the media, instead mostly keeping stuff close to the vest.

It's because the Bulls are gangster instead of a millenialized organization and these twitter journliasts can't handle it.

Makes me **** proud of the team.

Dude, your hatred for media is bordering on creepy.

[fleet]

A strange man once said.... "How's that workin' out for ya"?

[GusFring]

Well duh. The bulls are run by a miserable, miserly old racist, his doofus kid, and two random goons. It's basically a villain squad from some early 90s cartoon. Remember the "corn rows" comment to darius miles & his mom? The one that turned Brand off from playing for these scum suckers? You know that comment came from upstairs. That stuff gets around.

No one that works for the Bulls org likes them. They avoid the brass at all costs. It's a super depressing work environment. Ownership is hardly anywhere to be seen, they don't even care enough to go to games. They've *always* talked down to staff & had a horrific reputation amongst talent, agents, media, pencil pushing lowly staff, you name it.

"FIRE GARPAX" was a movement for a reason. This is a team that should be the end all be all place for an nba player to want to play, and yet, no one wants to touch this team with a ten foot pole. This is the most internationally successful sports franchise outside of RealMadrid, and yet, not one star in the league desires to play for Chicago. Why? Because it's a rotten log. Rotten from the core. Reinsdorfs are scum & always have been, really. No one ever liked them & still don't. They've always been tail tucking, back stabbing cowards, and players view Chicago like some sort of nba purgatory. How sad is that?

Heck, they just extended the WORST, most disliked coach in basketball. Why? Probably to spite their current roster over the (well deserved) player mutiny earlier this season. This franchise is the definition of toxic & nothing will change until the miserable old coot croaks.

Well stated, exactly the reasons I don't support this trash franchise any longer.

[Michael Jackson]

No one in the FO is likable. I doubt agents like them much but really that means nothing. My biggest and best customers are business I don’t particularly like either.

An argument though that don’t fit this narrative, the Bulls can’t make trades... well that’s other FO’s not agents.

As far as agents does anyone like Scott Boras? Does any FO like dealing with any agent really? Not if both sides are doing their job

I do believe most of the “cash” trades the Bulls have done is to curry favor with FO and agents though. They are not likable they need to do whatever they can. To my above point though if other FO and agents are doing their job they shouldn’t be liking each other.

This is a silly clickbait type piece (like the Cubs threading reporting about Addison Russell) but if it gets Gar and pax removed I am grateful (don’t worry this won’t do it because it is a silly twitter post with no backup]

[keloms]

How is this suddenly a big revelation? Doesn't take a genius or a well connected source to figure it out. It's their way or no way and they're the type that'll shake your hand with a smile and the other hand will be putting the knife in your back.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

The ACTUAL reason IMO why media lightweights like this loser trash the Bulls is because the Bulls are old school and don't patronize the media, instead mostly keeping stuff close to the vest.

It's because the Bulls are gangster instead of a millenialized organization and these twitter journliasts can't handle it.

Makes me **** proud of the team.

Dude, your hatred for media is bordering on creepy.

i dunno, seems about right. it extends beyond basketball too. we tend to look at the media as arbiters of truth, the purveyors of facts, when really journalists are just regular joes like the rest of us; and they want to have long-lasting careers, so they write stuff that people want to read, that can't necessarily be verified, whether or not it's the truth.

sports journalists are a sideshow and in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter what they do. but when you write for the new york times or the washington post and a feature of your profession is letting your ideology influence your coverage of matters, it is a problem. i'm not a conservative, but they generally have a good point about how much bias there is in the news. well of course, but who goes to school and gets journalism degrees? and then which of those folks goes to work for the big papers and networks? generally, ivy-league educated liberals. it's one perspective on the world that we just accept to be the truth.

[kulaz3000]

Felicio's agent disagrees with this thread.