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2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery

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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#141 » by logical_art » Sun May 19, 2019 5:29 pm

cjbulls wrote:
TheHrvReport wrote:
logical_art wrote:
Not really fair to compare 3 teenage freshmen with a 21 year old Jr.

This is true but even if you look at Hunter's freshman season, he still beats all of them in every category listed above except his OBPM is a little lower than Barretts. I'm coming around to taking Hunter and trying to acquire a star in free agency or trade market in a year or 2 when most of our young core have blossomed.


Hunter redshirted his freshman season. So he was closer to a sophomore when those season stats were compiled.


Yeah I meant to edit it to Sophomore. Nevertheless, he was 2 years older with one year more of college experience than all the other guys.
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#142 » by Leslie Forman » Sun May 19, 2019 5:40 pm

So can anyone explain to me how Jarrett Culver is not just Evan Turner?
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#143 » by StunnerKO » Sun May 19, 2019 5:47 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:So can anyone explain to me how Jarrett Culver is not just Evan Turner?

He’s more Jimmy than Turner . Evan is a dumb offensive player , that’s not Jarrett
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#144 » by Leslie Forman » Sun May 19, 2019 5:53 pm

StunnerKO wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:So can anyone explain to me how Jarrett Culver is not just Evan Turner?

He’s more Jimmy than Turner . Evan is a dumb offensive player , that’s not Jarrett

Then why is he so much worse at the whole putting-the-ball-in-the-bucket part of offense?
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#145 » by StunnerKO » Sun May 19, 2019 6:04 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
StunnerKO wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:So can anyone explain to me how Jarrett Culver is not just Evan Turner?

He’s more Jimmy than Turner . Evan is a dumb offensive player , that’s not Jarrett

Then why is he so much worse at the whole putting-the-ball-in-the-bucket part of offense?

Jimmy wasn’t a good offense player coming into the league he grew into that player . Jimmy and Culver play the same way sort of and a Culver is a much better defender than Evan Turner ever was in college. These are not finished products . And Evan Turner is a stupid offensive player in the league but got away with more in college . I’m thinking Culver will preform more like Jimmy will in the league , he has to quicken his release tho.
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#146 » by DuckIII » Sun May 19, 2019 6:09 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:So can anyone explain to me how Jarrett Culver is not just Evan Turner?


I like Culver, but I gotta admit, that’s a startlingly good potential comp. The main thing that separates them in my mind right now would be Culver’s defense.

Regardless, he’s not our concern. He won’t be there at 7.
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#147 » by Dresden » Sun May 19, 2019 6:14 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:
cjbulls wrote:The opposite is true. If Reddish misses, everyone will say "You saw his numbers at Duke, how could you think he'd be better in the NBA." He is not a safe pick

And I didn't mention just GMs either, the media all have him ranked 7th or 8 on big boards (ESPN, Ringer, Athletic, Bleacher Report, CBS, Sporting News, Sports Illustrated).


Coldfish is right that early reputation creates quick and lasting narratives. Jonathan Givony talked about this last year, saying that elite ecruits, regardless if they perform poorly in college, set themselves up to make good money off their high school reputation. Andrew Wiggins was alright in college, but he was expected to have a season like Zion just did. He still went #1 overall and eventually signed a max contract. Michael Porter Jr. still went in the lottery after having two major back surgeries in a year. We saw it in the draft threads last year where plenty of fans were willing to look past the back issue because he was an elite HS recruit.

Reddish is going to cash out on high school reputation and measurements in a shallow draft. And yes, if he underperforms the red flags will look worse in hindsight, because they were obvious.


Don't mean to keep harping on this, but what MPJ had were not "major back surgeries". It was not a fusion or something of that nature.

"Microdiscectomy recovery is a relatively quick process for the majority of patients who undergo the procedure. A patient will usually spend one night in the hospital immediately following the procedure and will then be released if there are no complications. Some doctors recommend resting the back for a period of several weeks, though technically, there have been no changes in the patient’s spine, and he or she can often return to normal activity the following day."
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#148 » by Dresden » Sun May 19, 2019 6:21 pm

I don't know if this is a valid justification or not as to why some elite HS prospects have a bad freshman year, but maybe they just had a bad year? Maybe the fit in the scheme wasn't good, maybe they had trouble feeling comfortable in a new system, maybe they didn't mesh well with their teammates. Could be all sorts of reasons. In some ways, the career they had before entering college, which stretches back 4-5 years, might be more indicative of their talent than the one year they had in college.

Just a thought....
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#149 » by Leslie Forman » Sun May 19, 2019 6:25 pm

StunnerKO wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:
StunnerKO wrote:He’s more Jimmy than Turner . Evan is a dumb offensive player , that’s not Jarrett

Then why is he so much worse at the whole putting-the-ball-in-the-bucket part of offense?

Jimmy wasn’t a good offense player coming into the league he grew into that player . Jimmy and Culver play the same way sort of and a Culver is a much better defender than Evan Turner ever was in college. These are not finished products . And Evan Turner is a stupid offensive player in the league but got away with more in college . I’m thinking Culver will preform more like Jimmy will in the league , he has to quicken his release tho.

Jimmy Butler was an insanely efficient scorer in college. Culver was…not.

I ain't saying Culver's gonna be a bust…but I smell a lot of busty spices all over him…
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#150 » by KevinPandawong » Sun May 19, 2019 6:31 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:So can anyone explain to me how Jarrett Culver is not just Evan Turner?


Jarrett knows how to move/score off the ball, ET is only effective with the ball in his hands. ET is the better ball handler and play-maker. That's their biggest difference.

Culver has the better post-scoring repertoire, and plays much better team defense.

Culver is also a volume shooter, as opposed to ET whose only averaged 2 3PA once in his 10 year NBA and 3 year NCAA career.

Culver took his team to the Championship game, meanwhile ET couldn't make it past the Sweet Sixteen losing to a mediocre Bruce Pearl Tennessee.
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#151 » by Red Larrivee » Sun May 19, 2019 6:35 pm

Dresden wrote:I don't know if this is a valid justification or not as to why some elite HS prospects have a bad freshman year, but maybe they just had a bad year? Maybe the fit in the scheme wasn't good, maybe they had trouble feeling comfortable in a new system, maybe they didn't mesh well with their teammates. Could be all sorts of reasons. In some ways, the career they had before entering college, which stretches back 4-5 years, might be more indicative of their talent than the one year they had in college.

Just a thought....


It's indicative of their talent against high school players. Once you get to college, it's a different story. Seventh Woods looked like the second coming against trash competition, then had a forgetful career at UNC. There's a long list of five-star recruits who did very little in college and if they made it to the NBA, continued to do very little.

What makes it likely that the reasons Reddish struggled in college will not be relevant during his pro career?
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#152 » by Leslie Forman » Sun May 19, 2019 6:46 pm

KevinPandawong wrote:Jarrett knows how to move/score off the ball, ET is only effective with the ball in his hands. ET is the better ball handler and play-maker. That's their biggest difference.

Then why is he such an inefficient scorer against college kids?

Maybe it's the Kris Dunn effect, but whenever people rave about a guy's scoring ability and they can't even be efficient at the college level, especially when they're an upperclassman, boy that sure smells like a load of not-gonna-happen-in-the-NBA.
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2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#153 » by StunnerKO » Sun May 19, 2019 6:47 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
StunnerKO wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:Then why is he so much worse at the whole putting-the-ball-in-the-bucket part of offense?

Jimmy wasn’t a good offense player coming into the league he grew into that player . Jimmy and Culver play the same way sort of and a Culver is a much better defender than Evan Turner ever was in college. These are not finished products . And Evan Turner is a stupid offensive player in the league but got away with more in college . I’m thinking Culver will preform more like Jimmy will in the league , he has to quicken his release tho.

Jimmy Butler was an insanely efficient scorer in college. Culver was…not.

I ain't saying Culver's gonna be a bust…but I smell a lot of busty spices all over him…

And jimmy was what is first few years in the nba? Not the player he is now , he was up and wow his first 3 years . that’s where my comparison is not college production , I think he can become that type of player . Efficiency in college doesn’t always mean that player will succeed in the league that’s been shown with many prospects
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#154 » by MeloRoseNoah » Sun May 19, 2019 6:48 pm

The guy in this draft who reminds me of Jimmy Butler is Deandre Hunter, not Culver. When you’re a finesse wing player who sucks at shooting free throw and three, my Evan Turner bust alarm goes off.
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#155 » by Dresden » Sun May 19, 2019 6:59 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:
Dresden wrote:I don't know if this is a valid justification or not as to why some elite HS prospects have a bad freshman year, but maybe they just had a bad year? Maybe the fit in the scheme wasn't good, maybe they had trouble feeling comfortable in a new system, maybe they didn't mesh well with their teammates. Could be all sorts of reasons. In some ways, the career they had before entering college, which stretches back 4-5 years, might be more indicative of their talent than the one year they had in college.

Just a thought....


It's indicative of their talent against high school players. Once you get to college, it's a different story. Seventh Woods looked like the second coming against trash competition, then had a forgetful career at UNC. There's a long list of five-star recruits who did very little in college and if they made it to the NBA, continued to do very little.

What makes it likely that the reasons Reddish struggled in college will not be relevant during his pro career?


You're right, history seems to say that a bad freshman season would indicate trouble in the nba as well. I just wonder if one bad year outweighs all the previous success. but probably it does.
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#156 » by Dresden » Sun May 19, 2019 7:02 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
KevinPandawong wrote:Jarrett knows how to move/score off the ball, ET is only effective with the ball in his hands. ET is the better ball handler and play-maker. That's their biggest difference.

Then why is he such an inefficient scorer against college kids?

Maybe it's the Kris Dunn effect, but whenever people rave about a guy's scoring ability and they can't even be efficient at the college level, especially when they're an upperclassman, boy that sure smells like a load of not-gonna-happen-in-the-NBA.


Yep, I would not draft Culver either based on his poor shooting in college. It's a huge risk to hope a guy develops a better shot in the nba. As important as shooting is, there enough other guys to chose from that shot well in college- Hunter, White, Garland, even NAW, that I don't know why you'd take a gamble with Culver.
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#157 » by KevinPandawong » Sun May 19, 2019 7:10 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
KevinPandawong wrote:Jarrett knows how to move/score off the ball, ET is only effective with the ball in his hands. ET is the better ball handler and play-maker. That's their biggest difference.

Then why is he such an inefficient scorer against college kids?

Maybe it's the Kris Dunn effect, but whenever people rave about a guy's scoring ability and they can't even be efficient at the college level, especially when they're an upperclassman, boy that sure smells like a load of not-gonna-happen-in-the-NBA.


That's why he's being discussed as a possible target for #7 in a weak class. EVERY prospect being discussed has a major red-flag. He's never going to play with a 32% USG rate in the NBA, he was relied far too heavily on in Texas Tech's offense.

His shooting drastically fell in the 2nd half of the college season, he started the season shooting 56%(12.5 FGA) and 45% from 3 (3.5 3PA) in his first 12 games. Meanwhile league execs everywhere are drooling over Garland for similar shooting stats, but in only 5 games and against far inferior competition.

Culver's jumper needs reworking, his FT% numbers and inconsistency all season is evidence of that; but again, that's why he's potentially available at #7.
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#158 » by CjayC » Sun May 19, 2019 7:17 pm

GimmeDat wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19&fbclid=IwAR1lXQpN0etNBEl2TXNCPzuTRPZgkj94clktAkPHfe-OeRaHHWGlmCab6Jo


He has a nice fluidity to his game and that stroke is looking quicker and improved from what I've seen in other vids. I like that he shows some flashes of putting the ball on the floor as well in the half-court. I'm intrigued with his potential.
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#159 » by TheSuzerain » Sun May 19, 2019 7:31 pm

StunnerKO wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:So can anyone explain to me how Jarrett Culver is not just Evan Turner?

He’s more Jimmy than Turner . Evan is a dumb offensive player , that’s not Jarrett

Nope. Jimmy is a far better athlete.
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Re: 2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery 

Post#160 » by StunnerKO » Sun May 19, 2019 7:34 pm

“(I’m) a two-way player that can score on all three levels on offense, and then on the defensive side (I) take pride in defense, who plays hard on the defensive side,” Culver answered when asked what an NBA team would get in him. “They’re gonna get a player who plays hard each and every night.”

Texas Tech led the country in defensive efficiency and Culver was a major reason why. Individually, Culver ranked in the 93rd percentile nationally as a defender. That included a 90th percentile ranking on spot-up shots, an 86th percentile ranking on pick-and-roll action and a 90th percentile ranking on jump shots. Whatever he accomplishes on the offensive end, Culver will enter the NBA on Day 1 as a plus defender.

“I take pride in defense,” he said. “That’s something I want to do. Going to the next level, being able to guard guys and some of the great talent in the league, it helped tremendously just because if you can play defense you can probably get on the court. Your offense will come and there’s a lot of talented guys out there that can score the ball so if you’re able to play defense it’s a game changer.”

He’s also got traits on offense that should carry over to the NBA. Though Culver was listed as a shooting guard he was asked to play with the ball in his hands plenty as a sophomore. Culver played 201 pick-and-roll possessions and held his own, ranking in the 63rd percentile nationally with 0.806 points per possession.

“Coach, he put me off the ball and off the ball, so just being able to do both, I feel like it helped me a lot,” Culver said. “Whatever a team needs me to do, play the point guard spot, to come off screens and shoot or anything like that. The adjustment playing both on the ball and off the ball has helped me a lot.”

That could be part of the reason he saw such a dip his 3-point shooting numbers as a sophomore. He began his sophomore season on fire from deep, making better than 45% of his triples in non-conference play. That number plummeted to 25.2% once conference season began, including just 18.9% in the Big 12 Tournament and NCAA Tournament.

“Yeah, in a way (playing on-ball), and teams were guarding me different from freshman year to this year,” Culver said. “So that combination kind of made my percentage go low, but I still have confidence in my shot and I feel like I shoot the ball very well.”

Culver has excellent form and noted that he, like all prospects, has been working on his outside shot in the pre-draft process. It’s a skill that can be taught at the next level, and if Culver can even be an average 3-point shooter he’s going to be worth his top-7 draft selection.

College defenses clearly respected Culver’s outside shot because he was one of the country’s best drivers. He’s strong attacking the rim with some underrated finesse once he gets there, and he’s good at drawing contact (5.5 free throw attempts per game).

“I feel like I can shoot the ball very well and that opens up my offensive game driving downhill,” Culver said. “So when you’re able to shoot the 3-ball and get midrange (looks), they kind of play you tighter and you’re able to get downhill on some guys.”

All these numbers came while playing on a Texas Tech team that didn’t really have a true second scoring option. The gap between Culver and Davide Moretti was seven points per game. Culver took on a major burden as the go-to option at Tech and still put together an impressive scoring season, in addition to his superb defense.

Culver is a jack-of-all-trades who could fit perfectly as a complementary role player. If he’s the pick at No. 7, he’d slot in behind Zach LaVine and Otto Porter and have a chance to start when Porter’s contract is up in 2021. He’s gone from an unranked high school recruit to a role player as a freshman to Big 12 Player of the Year as a sophomore. His arrow is trending up and he seems committed to keeping it that way.

“It’s something I’ve always wanted to be better at and it’s always something I can continue to get better at,” Culver said about his love for the game. “It’s something I can improve on each day. I love the game. I don’t see it as a job. I see it as something I love, to go out there and play basketball.”


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/jarrett-culver-checks-all-boxes-perfect-two-way-wing-todays-nba%3famp

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