Realistic higher end FA targets

[panthermark]

Melo never left as a FA and wasn't a superstar IMO.

Bosh was never a superstar.

Shaq left before individual max existed. Different game.

Arenas a superstar? Lol.

Amare was not a superstar and the Bulls genuinely preferred Boozer.

TMac certainly wasn't a superstar when he signed with Orlando.

Howard might not have been a superstar IMO but I'll give you him.

Grant Hill I'll give you.

So the list is basically Lebron, Grant Hill, limited Dwight Howard and KD in a total anomaly year.

Bosh has been in the league 7 years, and had went to 5 straight All-Star games when he was traded. Fine don't call him a superstar...but he was a up there.

But I will play your game. Superstar, All-Star....near All-Stars. Call it what you want. How many have come to Chicago?

Name me ANY player that has forced their way to Chicago? (You know....trade me there, or I will sign with them as a FA). I think we have just one...Boozer.

[League Circles]

Melo never left as a FA and wasn't a superstar IMO.

Bosh was never a superstar.

Shaq left before individual max existed. Different game.

Arenas a superstar? Lol.

Amare was not a superstar and the Bulls genuinely preferred Boozer.

TMac certainly wasn't a superstar when he signed with Orlando.

Howard might not have been a superstar IMO but I'll give you him.

Grant Hill I'll give you.

So the list is basically Lebron, Grant Hill, limited Dwight Howard and KD in a total anomaly year.

Bosh has been in the league 7 years, and had went to 5 straight All-Star games when he was traded. Fine don't call him a superstar...but he was a up there.

But I will play your game. Superstar, All-Star....near All-Stars. Call it what you want. How many have come to Chicago?

Name me ANY player that has forced their way to Chicago? (You know....trade me there, or I will sign with them as a FA). I think we have just one...Boozer.

Ben Wallace was the 4 time consecutive DPOY when we signed him.

Next time we had cap space we signed Boozer who was a 28 year old 2 time all star coming off of arguably his best season.

Next time we signed Gasol (who took less money with us than the Lakers offered) who became a two time all star for us.

Next was Wade who was coming off 12 consecutive all star appearances.

So, uh, yeah, we're 4/4 in the Paxson era of signing an all star caliber player in FA.

Forced their way?

How many players in the league at all have forced their way places? Kobe tried to force his way here.

[bledredwine]

Highest risk & reward is probably Cousins.

I wouldn't even include him but we've done crazier things, like sign Wade & Rondo to a rebuilding team. We also seem to have a soft spot for injury reclamation projects, like Lavine & Parker.

Screw it. I'm on board.

We have no better option. Maybe he'll attract other talents.

[panthermark]

Melo never left as a FA and wasn't a superstar IMO.

Bosh was never a superstar.

Shaq left before individual max existed. Different game.

Arenas a superstar? Lol.

Amare was not a superstar and the Bulls genuinely preferred Boozer.

TMac certainly wasn't a superstar when he signed with Orlando.

Howard might not have been a superstar IMO but I'll give you him.

Grant Hill I'll give you.

So the list is basically Lebron, Grant Hill, limited Dwight Howard and KD in a total anomaly year.

Bosh has been in the league 7 years, and had went to 5 straight All-Star games when he was traded. Fine don't call him a superstar...but he was a up there.

But I will play your game. Superstar, All-Star....near All-Stars. Call it what you want. How many have come to Chicago?

Name me ANY player that has forced their way to Chicago? (You know....trade me there, or I will sign with them as a FA). I think we have just one...Boozer.

Ben Wallace was the 4 time consecutive DPOY when we signed him.

Next time we had cap space we signed Boozer who was a 28 year old 2 time all star coming off of arguably his best season.

Next time we signed Gasol (who took less money with us than the Lakers offered) who became a two time all star for us.

Next was Wade who was coming off 12 consecutive all star appearances.

So, uh, yeah, we're 4/4 in the Paxson era of signing an all star caliber player in FA.

Forced their way?

How many players in the league at all have forced their way places? Kobe tried to force his way here.

Wallace was 33 when he started with us.
Boozer was about as close to a "prime" FA as we can get...29 when started with us.
Gasol was 34....we needed him when we had Wallace.....but the Lakers ended up with him. (Still a solid pick-up...he had not been an All-Star in years, but became one with Chicago).
Wade was 34.

So umm...no... Getting players at the end past their prime is not a sign of being a top destination for FA's.

Oh and I didn't say "try", we've been used as leverage plenty of times. How many players actually FORCED their way here (or were stopped by the league)? Chris Paul? Melo? Vince? Howard? Shaq? The only one even close to even thinking about Chicago was Melo...and that was so he could use us as leverage to get to New York.

[League Circles]

Bosh has been in the league 7 years, and had went to 5 straight All-Star games when he was traded. Fine don't call him a superstar...but he was a up there.

But I will play your game. Superstar, All-Star....near All-Stars. Call it what you want. How many have come to Chicago?

Name me ANY player that has forced their way to Chicago? (You know....trade me there, or I will sign with them as a FA). I think we have just one...Boozer.

Ben Wallace was the 4 time consecutive DPOY when we signed him.

Next time we had cap space we signed Boozer who was a 28 year old 2 time all star coming off of arguably his best season.

Next time we signed Gasol (who took less money with us than the Lakers offered) who became a two time all star for us.

Next was Wade who was coming off 12 consecutive all star appearances.

So, uh, yeah, we're 4/4 in the Paxson era of signing an all star caliber player in FA.

Forced their way?

How many players in the league at all have forced their way places? Kobe tried to force his way here.

Wallace was 33 when he started with us.
Boozer was about as close to a "prime" FA as we can get...29 when started with us.
Gasol was 34....we needed him when we had Wallace.....but the Lakers ended up with him. (Still a solid pick-up...he had not been an All-Star in years, but became one with Chicago).
Wade was 34.

So umm...no... Getting players at the end past their prime is not a sign of being a top destination for FA's.

Oh and I didn't say "try", we've been used as leverage plenty of times. How many players actually FORCED their way here (or were stopped by the league)? Chris Paul? Melo? Vince? Howard? Shaq? The only one even close to even thinking about Chicago was Melo...and that was so he could use us as leverage to get to New York.

Why keep changing the goalposts? You said superstar. I pointed out that only 2-4 superstars have ever changed teams as FAs in the individual max era. Then you said fine what all star or NEAR all star caliber players have we signed. I showed that we are 4/4.

What you may not understand is that even just near all star or all star caliber players simply don't leave teams as FAs often until they are older. It's just a reality due mostly to CBA rules.

We're not Miami or the Lakers for FA appeal but we're definitely ahead of 80% of the league in that department, which is a good place to be IMO.

[dougthonus]

As I stated, some stars forced their way to other teams (via S&T).

No one you listed was a S&T except LeBron/Bosh, I would already credit them as UFA signings though since effectively they were.

Howard forced his way out of Orlando and went to.......the Lakers! And how did he get to Houston?

Melo forced his way out of Denver (using us for leverage) and went to....the Knicks!

Guys forcing themselves out via trade isn't the same thing as using FA money on guys who are UFAs. It isn't related to the scenario we're discussing right now. It's just a different thing. Howard definitely wasn't a superstar when he signed with Houston.

Boozer is our "biggest" prime star signing since Rodman....and he was at best, in the 2nd tier of FA's in 201O. (Bron, Wade, Dirk, Bosh, Pierce, Johnson, Boozer, Amare, Gay, Lee, ect...).

Of those guys that changed teams, realistically only Bosh and LeBron were bigger FAs. That's fine that he was a 2nd tier type guy, but then don't count the other 2nd tier type guys as 1st tier type guys when talking about guys who left.

Lakers get whomever they want whenever they want. The league had to step in and cancel traded to the Lakers.
We are not even in the discussion for AD, Kyrie, or KD, yet somehow the Knicks are.

The Lakers got Shaq a long time ago. They got LeBron recently. They missed on getting Paul George to go with LeBron, let's see who the Lakers get this off-season (could be someone spectacular, but they aren't really linked to the top few guys this summer despite (or maybe because of) having LeBron.

The results speak for themselves. You can try to say that not that many players leave, but as one of the so called "big markets", the players that DO leave are NOT leaving for us.
We are about as attractive as other mid-market team. Being the 7th or 8th most attractive spot is about like being the tallest midget.
It is what it is.

Chicago as a destination is a plus. Maybe LA/NY are bigger pluses (all things being equal), but Chicago is up there with the next level of cities. Miami/GSW have been the most successful FA places in recent memory. That said, Miami has no carry over value as a FA destination after the big 3 left. GSW probably won't have any carry over value either. Those cities will only be valuable again if their situation makes it valuable.

People are taking data where there is like 8-10 samples over 20 years and trying to extrapolate the value of the city or FO. It's silly because there are so few data points that any data analysis is faulty, but if you wanted to look at one common thread its that superstars want to win and go to situations where they think they can win, and if you present that opportunity you have become a good destination.

Chicago definitely isn't a negative destination if it has a good chance to win. Being 7th best on neutral ground means with good opportunity you can be best.

[panthermark]

@Doug,
Players use their pending free agency as leverage (they are either FA's that force an S&T, or have one year left and let it be known). The big stars have not done that for Chicago (outside of using us as leverage).
It is why we are not even in the AD, KD, or Irving mix.

Relative to our market size, and the number of banners in the rafters, we kinda suck as a destination.

We are the #3 media market, but we are not the #3 desired place to play.

If every player was a FA, and every team had 100% cap space, I think players would flock to the Lakers the Knicks, Miami, Dallas, maybe Boston or Houston before Chicago. Being 7th isn't all that great when only a few top players move each year.

[murphs5150]

Ben Wallace was the 4 time consecutive DPOY when we signed him.

Next time we had cap space we signed Boozer who was a 28 year old 2 time all star coming off of arguably his best season.

Next time we signed Gasol (who took less money with us than the Lakers offered) who became a two time all star for us.

Next was Wade who was coming off 12 consecutive all star appearances.

So, uh, yeah, we're 4/4 in the Paxson era of signing an all star caliber player in FA.

Forced their way?

How many players in the league at all have forced their way places? Kobe tried to force his way here.

Paxson is 4/4 for signing declining,aging,former all-stars. Did any of them even make a all-star team while playing for the Bulls? Why do they stay an average of 2 years before being dealt if they were so great?

[bigworld2017]

Ive said this before during the season but I will say it again Kemba Walker is a player to keep an eye on. Chicago could be a landing spot for him.

I think Kemba should also be a primary target. I would prefer Brogdon but I would max out Kemba if we could get him.

Maxing Kemba is scary for me, I rather overpay Brogdon if we are dead set on overpaying someone at PG.

And to get Machiavelian signing Brogdon helps us two ways....we get better and The Bucks get worse. I used to think all we had to do was compete with Boston and Philly. I didn't see the Bucks being as good as they have become. GarPax, get Brogdon or at least make him an offer that cripples Milwaukee to match for a few years to come.

[League Circles]

Ben Wallace was the 4 time consecutive DPOY when we signed him.

Next time we had cap space we signed Boozer who was a 28 year old 2 time all star coming off of arguably his best season.

Next time we signed Gasol (who took less money with us than the Lakers offered) who became a two time all star for us.

Next was Wade who was coming off 12 consecutive all star appearances.

So, uh, yeah, we're 4/4 in the Paxson era of signing an all star caliber player in FA.

Forced their way?

How many players in the league at all have forced their way places? Kobe tried to force his way here.

Paxson is 4/4 for signing declining,aging,former all-stars. Did any of them even make a all-star team while playing for the Bulls? Why do they stay an average of 2 years before being dealt if they were so great?

Signing aging, declining all stars is something 3/4 of the league would love to do.

Yes, Pau Gasol made the all star team both years he played for us.

Ben Wallace was a cancer on a rotting team so he was traded.

Boozer played 4 of the original 5 years before being amnestied so that we could sign......

Pau Gasol, to a two year deal, which he fulfilled. He was not traded.

Dwyane Wade signed a 1+1 deal and was bought out of year two because the team decided to rebuild.

And who said they were so great? They werent. Other than Wade, they were good players for us. Good players are important to have to win games. Even really good teams only usually have 2-6 good players. In free agency, the good thing is you can actually get good players without giving up assets. The Bulls do that more consistently than the vast majority of teams. The downside is due to CBA rules they are usually getting older and will typically be overpaid towarda the ends of their deals. I'll take the good with the bad.

[panthermark]

Why keep changing the goalposts? You said superstar. I pointed out that only 2-4 superstars have ever changed teams as FAs in the individual max era. Then you said fine what all star or NEAR all star caliber players have we signed. I showed that we are 4/4.

What you may not understand is that even just near all star or all star caliber players simply don't leave teams as FAs often until they are older. It's just a reality due mostly to CBA rules.

We're not Miami or the Lakers for FA appeal but we're definitely ahead of 80% of the league in that department, which is a good place to be IMO.

I'm not moving the goal post. You want to use "superstar" so that you can say only a few have moved...thus it isn't a big deal. Well, we didn't land any of the few that moved. We could not not pull away superstars from much smaller markets.
You want to say we brought players in (Wallace, Boozer, Gasol) as some kind of proof that we can land people...but they were not "superstars". You can't have it both ways.

Hell, Pax literally said in an interview that we were not a destination....yet here we are...arguing if we are a destination or not. Have you a heard a single rumor about a star player in his prime trying to get here this summer? Nope....yet here we are.....arguing if we are a destination or not.

“You always have an opportunity to change that,” Paxson said when asked about the Bulls not being a destination for top free agents. “My feeling is that the relationships that are really important are with the player and then subsequently with their agent. And if you have a good relationship with the agent then you’re gonna be able to get people in your door in terms of recruiting them or whatever that may be.”

Go through some of the threads, and outside of Brogdon (and Beverly from Chicago), the FA's we talk about all have something in common...they were drafted by Chicago and played here for several years. Rose, Butler, Taj, Noah, and Niko.

[League Circles]

Why keep changing the goalposts? You said superstar. I pointed out that only 2-4 superstars have ever changed teams as FAs in the individual max era. Then you said fine what all star or NEAR all star caliber players have we signed. I showed that we are 4/4.

What you may not understand is that even just near all star or all star caliber players simply don't leave teams as FAs often until they are older. It's just a reality due mostly to CBA rules.

We're not Miami or the Lakers for FA appeal but we're definitely ahead of 80% of the league in that department, which is a good place to be IMO.

I'm not moving the goal post. You want to use "superstar" so that you can say only a few have moved...thus it isn't a big deal. Well, we didn't land any of the few that moved. We could not not pull away superstars from much smaller markets.
You want to say we brought players in (Wallace, Boozer, Gasol) as some kind of proof that we can land people...but they were not "superstars". You can't have it both ways.

Hell, Pax literally said in an interview that we were not a destination....yet here we are...arguing if we are a destination or not. Have you a heard a single rumor about a star player in his prime trying to get here this summer? Nope....yet here we are.....arguing if we are a destination or not.

“You always have an opportunity to change that,” Paxson said when asked about the Bulls not being a destination for top free agents. “My feeling is that the relationships that are really important are with the player and then subsequently with their agent. And if you have a good relationship with the agent then you’re gonna be able to get people in your door in terms of recruiting them or whatever that may be.”

Go through some of the threads, and outside of Brogdon (and Beverly from Chicago), the FA's we talk about all have something in common...they were drafted by Chicago and played here for several years. Rose, Butler, Taj, Noah, and Niko.

What do you mean I want to use superstar? You brought it up and used the term. No, they weren't superstars. They were good, all star caliber players that helped. Thatsa good thing and something 3/4 of the league can't accomplish regularly like we do. It means we're good at free agency. Top quartile is good.

Though perhaps we've had a communication gap. I don't think we're particularly a destination this summer, because we suck as a team, and that's always a big factor. I was talking about the city/org/Paxson era overall, not the summer 2019 Bulls. Just like team roster quality and coach can change things, so can player role. There are always many factors, the largest of which is usually money. But IMO, the Chicago Bulls are generally a top 4-8 team as a FA destination not correcting for annual fluctuations due to roster, coaching, and actual role for specific FAs.

[cubd8]

Because our bench doesn't matter next year as much as getting an actual good player doss. The guys I mentioned can generally play more than one position so they should be helpful starting or off the bench.

I think we'll draft a 1 at #7 and also sign Derrick Rose with the room MLE, and still have Dunn. We'll experiment with those 3 guys and Lavine if needed IMO.

Our bench in my scenario is:
1. FA from among those I listed OR Carter or Porter (one of these three would be sixth man)
2. Derrick Rose or our draft pick
3. Dunn
4. Hutchison
5. Valentine
6. A vet mimimum player
7. Blakeney
8. Felicio
9. Arci
10. #38


Then next year we have another full MLE player and another mid first round pick. Bench restocked. Bulls are simply too young to prioritize depth IMO.

Well, it matters if there are injuries or that good player you signed needs a breather. I think the wrong approach is becoming top heavy right now. There's a chance here to create a deep bench as we did in 2010-11. Spending big money on someone like Harrison Barnes just seems really egregious.

On a team without a star player, and 3 1st round picks (assuming no trades) over the last 2 years likely in the rotation, I'd argue depth is needed more than ever. Since they don't think they are a realistic destination and took themselves out of the bidding for elite talent (again, somewhat odd to do this since the only way to realistically compete is with the players that are not trying to acquire), it would seem unlikely to see them go after 1 player with their cap space. I think it's 2 veterans, maybe a 3rd, but they can be competitive if they keep the interest in 2 FA's.

Assuming again, no trades, they probably draft a PG at #7, add a veteran PG and then look for either another decent big or shooter and that's the roster.

[jnrjr79]

I'm not that worried about it. The Bulls would be able to move salary if Durant (or, say, a more likely name - Kemba) wanted to come for a max deal.

Two problems:
1: You don't recruit people then try to free up the space afterwards. I can't think of any examples of this happening, there might be one, but it's extremely rare and almost certainly makes it significantly more difficult to achieve based on how rare it is.

2: You can't free up enough salary for two max slots which is what you would need to get a star to come here.

1) Just because it's rare doesn't mean it wouldn't be easy to do if you attached a valuable enough asset. I'm pretty sure the Bulls would have a deal in about twelve seconds if they attached the #7 to Felico and any remaining salary necessary to free up a full max.

1) a) The Bulls could also do a sign-and-trade with Charlotte to free up the space.

2) I think it's silly to believe that you know Kemba would only go somewhere with 2 max slots. How in the world could you know that? A blanket rule like that simply doesn't apply to all star players.

[jnrjr79]

I think you could get there. Someone would take Lavine and Porter into their cap space. Obviously not together but I think it's doable. Neither are bad deals.

But they're not coming here. There are much better choices than coming to play for this poor excuse of an organization.

I agree they aren't, but the fact that we can't really even go in and pitch what something would look like if we did makes it so that there isn't even a chance.

Melo was willing to meet with the Bulls when they didn't have max cap space. Why? The reported rumors were they told him they could offer him the remaining space they had or they could move Taj to create a max slot (if he preferred the higher payday to keeping the quality player). I know the Bulls ultimately didn't sign him, but they were able to sit down with an ostensible star who was taking a bunch of visits with teams.

It seems to me that in the scheme of things, freeing up some salary is far from the biggest impediment to the Bulls landing a max guy, and I don't understand the "why bother" attitude if it stems from cap room concerns.

[TheStig]

Melo never left as a FA and wasn't a superstar IMO.

Bosh was never a superstar.

Shaq left before individual max existed. Different game.

Arenas a superstar? Lol.

Amare was not a superstar and the Bulls genuinely preferred Boozer.

TMac certainly wasn't a superstar when he signed with Orlando.

Howard might not have been a superstar IMO but I'll give you him.

Grant Hill I'll give you.

So the list is basically Lebron, Grant Hill, limited Dwight Howard and KD in a total anomaly year.

Bosh has been in the league 7 years, and had went to 5 straight All-Star games when he was traded. Fine don't call him a superstar...but he was a up there.

But I will play your game. Superstar, All-Star....near All-Stars. Call it what you want. How many have come to Chicago?

Name me ANY player that has forced their way to Chicago? (You know....trade me there, or I will sign with them as a FA). I think we have just one...Boozer.

Ben Wallace was the 4 time consecutive DPOY when we signed him.

Next time we had cap space we signed Boozer who was a 28 year old 2 time all star coming off of arguably his best season.

Next time we signed Gasol (who took less money with us than the Lakers offered) who became a two time all star for us.

Next was Wade who was coming off 12 consecutive all star appearances.

So, uh, yeah, we're 4/4 in the Paxson era of signing an all star caliber player in FA.

Forced their way?

How many players in the league at all have forced their way places? Kobe tried to force his way here.

Ben Wallace was past his prime and his team wouldn't pay him. He preferred to stay there. He didn't come here because he desperately wanted to be a Bull. He came here because we overpaid.

None of these guys were max A level FA's that GarPax signed. None of these guys were offered a max by their team. In fact, outside of Gasol, we offered more than what their team was willing and more than others.

Call me when GarPax sign Durant, Kyrie or Kwahii this summer.

[dougthonus]

1) Just because it's rare doesn't mean it wouldn't be easy to do if you attached a valuable enough asset. I'm pretty sure the Bulls would have a deal in about twelve seconds if they attached the #7 to Felico and any remaining salary necessary to free up a full max.

You can't attach the #7 on draft day because you don't know if you will need the space on draft day. Granted, you can probably still give the specific prospect + Felicio (not sure if that's enough actually, but you could probably find takers for enough if Felicio is gone).

Still, the fact that this doesn't happen means that there is likely a human element here that prevents it from happening for logistical reasons and that it is easier in theory than in practice.

1) a) The Bulls could also do a sign-and-trade with Charlotte to free up the space.

2) I think it's silly to believe that you know Kemba would only go somewhere with 2 max slots. How in the world could you know that? A blanket rule like that simply doesn't apply to all star players.

To be honest, I didn't read past Durant. I agree that Kemba would come here without two max slots open.

That said, I wouldn't give up the #7 pick for the privilege of signing Kemba to what will almost certainly be a terrible deal unless I thought he was the missing piece to championship contention when he'd likely be the missing piece to 1st round contention.

I wouldn't give up much (if anything) in the way of assets to sign Kemba to a bad deal. I agree it'd be nice to have him in the short term, but two years from now you'd regret that deal.

If I'm giving up assets, I might as well trade for Conley/Holiday where I won't get stuck with the final two years on that Kemba deal and won't have to give up as much most likely.

[jnrjr79]

1) Just because it's rare doesn't mean it wouldn't be easy to do if you attached a valuable enough asset. I'm pretty sure the Bulls would have a deal in about twelve seconds if they attached the #7 to Felico and any remaining salary necessary to free up a full max.

You can't attach the #7 on draft day because you don't know if you will need the space on draft day. Granted, you can probably still give the specific prospect + Felicio (not sure if that's enough actually, but you could probably find takers for enough if Felicio is gone).

So attach next year's 1st. Someone would happily eat the rest of Felicio's deal for that.

Still, the fact that this doesn't happen means that there is likely a human element here that prevents it from happening for logistical reasons and that it is easier in theory than in practice.

1) a) The Bulls could also do a sign-and-trade with Charlotte to free up the space.

2) I think it's silly to believe that you know Kemba would only go somewhere with 2 max slots. How in the world could you know that? A blanket rule like that simply doesn't apply to all star players.

To be honest, I didn't read past Durant. I agree that Kemba would come here without two max slots open.

That said, I wouldn't give up the #7 pick for the privilege of signing Kemba to what will almost certainly be a terrible deal unless I thought he was the missing piece to championship contention when he'd likely be the missing piece to 1st round contention.

I wouldn't give up much (if anything) in the way of assets to sign Kemba to a bad deal. I agree it'd be nice to have him in the short term, but two years from now you'd regret that deal.

If I'm giving up assets, I might as well trade for Conley/Holiday where I won't get stuck with the final two years on that Kemba deal and won't have to give up as much most likely.

I'd be ok moving the #7 to get Kemba, but I agree with you it's something you could live to regret. Given the thin draft class this year, I'd probably take my chances.

I also find Conley appealing for the same reason you do - he's expensive, but it's just two years. He helps you develop the young guys and then he comes off the books when it's time to pay them. I also worry about horrific defense in a Kemba + LaVine backcourt, though Kemba is good enough on offense you'd probably risk it.

Anyway, I have no idea whether the Bulls could be in the mix for a max free agent, but I want them to turn over every stone and I don't think they should throw their hands up in the air and say "well, gee, we're a bit shy on cap space, so we might as well not bother." Plenty of NBA GMs would be a lot more aggressive than that.

[boozapalooza]

D’Angelo Russell should be our #1 target. Very possible the Nets go after Kyrie. Move whatever salary has to be moved in order to sign him

[dougthonus]

Anyway, I have no idea whether the Bulls could be in the mix for a max free agent, but I want them to turn over every stone and I don't think they should throw their hands up in the air and say "well, gee, we're a bit shy on cap space, so we might as well not bother." Plenty of NBA GMs would be a lot more aggressive than that.

Fair enough. I wouldn't go max on Kemba, but the principle of looking and trying your best I still agree with. I just think you're still too early in the rebuild to max a borderline guy you will live to regret that caps your team around the 1st round exist spot, but that's a different argument than whether you should be doing your best to get the best player.