Breaking News Jimmy Butler was having dinner with bulls coach jim boylen last night per bullsnation twitter

[Red Larrivee]

Someone less lazy than me should lay out the best projections for cap situations in summer 20 and summer 21.

I can understand wanting to wait on using cap space. I can't for the life of me understand deliberately wanting to split it among 2-3 guys. Remember, we still have the room MLE this summer then the full MLE every year following to add such caliber of player.

IMO, like it or not, FA and #7 this year are likely the last chances that this roster build will have to add a high level talent without giving up assets. We have, at most, 4 high level talents now. EVERY team can use as many as 8 IMO before lesser players should become the priority. The key is to sign versatile players so you can use your starters and bench in various ways and be well positioned for a trade if the opportunity comes up.

Niko and Randall play 4/5

Harris plays 3/4

Barnes can basically play 2/3/4 at least defensively.

Brogdan can play 1/2.

Middleton can play 2/3/4.

Butler can play 1/2/3.

Get BPA!!!!!!!!!!

That's not true. The Bulls could continue punting their flexibility every couple of years as long as they want. Only give significant deals to core players and shuffle talent around them.

The problem with signing Butler is that you're buying high on a player's best years that you aren't going to get. Have we not learned this lesson already with Wallace and Boozer? Yes, those players were on good Bulls teams, but those deals turned ugly early into the contracts. Butler is better than both, but a decline is going to happen and he won't be worth 30%+ of the cap.

[Dez]

I have some magic beans to sell to anyone who thinks Butler is even a slight chance to return.

It's genuinely amusing.

[kingkirk]

From Darnell Mayberry

"But contrary to viral speculation, Boylen did not have dinner with Butler at La Scarola, which would be a violation of tampering rules as Butler is still under contract to Philadelphia. According to a source, Boylen instead dined with new lead assistant Chris Fleming while the Golden State Warriors completed their sweep of the Portland Trail Blazers in the Western Conference Finals. Boylen and Butler crossed paths in the small restaurant as the coaches were departing and Butler and his party were arriving. The men briefly exchanged pleasantries and went their separate ways."

https://theathletic.com/989536/2019/05/22/scene-from-an-italian-restaurant-jimmy-butler-jim-boylen-and-realistic-free-agent-targets-for-the-bulls/

[RedBulls23]

From Darnell Mayberry

"But contrary to viral speculation, Boylen did not have dinner with Butler at La Scarola, which would be a violation of tampering rules as Butler is still under contract to Philadelphia. According to a source, Boylen instead dined with new lead assistant Chris Fleming while the Golden State Warriors completed their sweep of the Portland Trail Blazers in the Western Conference Finals. Boylen and Butler crossed paths in the small restaurant as the coaches were departing and Butler and his party were arriving. The men briefly exchanged pleasantries and went their separate ways."

https://theathletic.com/989536/2019/05/22/scene-from-an-italian-restaurant-jimmy-butler-jim-boylen-and-realistic-free-agent-targets-for-the-bulls/

Yup, KC reported the same thing. So that's now 2 sources.

[mack2354]

1. There are a few teams who view Dunn as a Marcus Smart type and would to have him as their 3rd or 4th guard. We can trade Dunn for a 2nd or a 2nd swap. There is no way we give up a second to dump Dunn. People are undervaluing him.

2. Unless he's an add in for a star, C Hutch isn't going anywhere. They invested alot of time scouting him and developing him. They want to see what he becomes. Point me in the direction of teams that trade away future second round picks to give away recent 1st round picks. We should be collecting these recent 1st round picks and future seconds EVERY YEAR from other teams if that was a thing. It's not.

I understand some ppl are still emotionally attached to Jimmy and would do anything to have him back but giving away assets to dump positive assets (very slight, paper thin positive assets) in rookie scale contract Marcus Smart type, 40% three pt shooter type, and 1st round pick just last year type is absurd. You do those things w/ a back door promise from Kevin Durant to sign. Not Jimmy Butler.

[kingkirk]

From Darnell Mayberry

"But contrary to viral speculation, Boylen did not have dinner with Butler at La Scarola, which would be a violation of tampering rules as Butler is still under contract to Philadelphia. According to a source, Boylen instead dined with new lead assistant Chris Fleming while the Golden State Warriors completed their sweep of the Portland Trail Blazers in the Western Conference Finals. Boylen and Butler crossed paths in the small restaurant as the coaches were departing and Butler and his party were arriving. The men briefly exchanged pleasantries and went their separate ways."

https://theathletic.com/989536/2019/05/22/scene-from-an-italian-restaurant-jimmy-butler-jim-boylen-and-realistic-free-agent-targets-for-the-bulls/

Yup, KC reported the same thing. So that's now 2 sources.

Of course they would say that. It's just a cover. This is still very much on.

[TheStig]

What evidence do we have that Butler is popular and that he is an asset on the recruiting front?

Alex Kennedy ✔ @AlexKennedyNBA Jimmy Butler and Rajon Rondo have been recruiting Dwyane Wade to Chicago, according to sources close to situation

He did it.

And then Butler and Wade became despised by all their teammates, including the young guys, and including Rondo. Then Butler went to Minnesota, was an utter cancer who did not get along with any of their young players, including staging a bizarre practice protest where he swore at everyone about how he was dominating them. And then he went to Philly, where he complained about his role and struggled to strike a balance with his younger teammates.

Jimmy Butler is a darn good basketball player, but I see little evidence he's beloved around the NBA and would be a big recruiting asset. The only guy in the NBA we know liked him just retired.

Now you're moving the goal posts.

The question was what evidence was that he was popular and is an asset in recruiting. That was asked and answered.

And the deceive. Meh, most of those guys were entitled and did nothing in the league. Probably because they didn't work hard as they were called out for. Picks and youth are great but they're not professionals.

[TheStig]

There's a 0.0% chance Memphis would be interested in that.

Yup - we'd have to ADD the #7. Which for me is a no-brainer. Though I would trade out Otto and not Lavine. That is more favorable from a cap perspective, because the goal of this is to open up the room needed for Jimmy's super max.

I thought the supermax was not an option, you can only offer a max, not a supermax deal to a FA.

this would apply to any FA, not just butler.

incorrect?

Jimmy would have gotten the supermax if never traded. He was traded and now can only get the max.

And no one is givng up a top 10 pick for Conley. Let alone Porter/Lavine and #7.

[NecessaryEvil]

I have some magic beans to sell to anyone who thinks Butler is even a slight chance to return.

It's genuinely amusing.

He already stated he wouldn't mind retiring in a Bulls uni. So, it's not entirely out of the question.

[League Circles]

Someone less lazy than me should lay out the best projections for cap situations in summer 20 and summer 21.

I can understand wanting to wait on using cap space. I can't for the life of me understand deliberately wanting to split it among 2-3 guys. Remember, we still have the room MLE this summer then the full MLE every year following to add such caliber of player.

IMO, like it or not, FA and #7 this year are likely the last chances that this roster build will have to add a high level talent without giving up assets. We have, at most, 4 high level talents now. EVERY team can use as many as 8 IMO before lesser players should become the priority. The key is to sign versatile players so you can use your starters and bench in various ways and be well positioned for a trade if the opportunity comes up.

Niko and Randall play 4/5

Harris plays 3/4

Barnes can basically play 2/3/4 at least defensively.

Brogdan can play 1/2.

Middleton can play 2/3/4.

Butler can play 1/2/3.

Get BPA!!!!!!!!!!

That's not true. The Bulls could continue punting their flexibility every couple of years as long as they want. Only give significant deals to core players and shuffle talent around them.

The problem with signing Butler is that you're buying high on a player's best years that you aren't going to get. Have we not learned this lesson already with Wallace and Boozer? Yes, those players were on good Bulls teams, but those deals turned ugly early into the contracts. Butler is better than both, but a decline is going to happen and he won't be worth 30%+ of the cap.

IMO it's inaccurate to say that we can keep punting flexibility down the road, especially to imply we can do so indefinitely. When you give deals to core players, you get capped out very quickly. IMO, Lauri +Porter+Zach (especially on his next deal) +Carter is essentially a capped out team just for those 4 guys going forward. If we don't add somebody else of note, we won't be able to, and will only be able to upgrade through mid to late first round picks and MLE players that we will still have if we pay a 5th guy now.

The MO has always and should always be to get a few quality young players on rookie deals and add at least one or two pretty high level vets that aren't super old (like Wade was) while the young guys are still cheap, then go up and over the cap to keep them, and keep filling out the bench with firsts that pan out a bit and MLE guys and always keep looking for an upgrade trade.

When we added Wallace and Boozer we greatly improved. Had we not added them then, we wouldn't have been able to. Each team had like 3 key players on rookie deals soon to be extended.

Sure you can sometimes punt a bit. We punted last year. Maybe, just maybe we should punt again but I don't think so cause the class next year sucks and Lauri and Porter will have huge cap holds the following year, that when combined with Lavine, Carter, #7, our 2020 pick will eat up most of our cap. And that would mean two whole seasons of being notably less than we could be, because it means signing zero players beyond those two years. And when you only sign guys for two years there are a lot of restrictions on keeping them over the cap if they fit well and you want to extend them. It's not full bird rights.

I think there is a terrible, terrible risk in not signing BPA in free agency this summer.

[Ccwatercraft]

Someone less lazy than me should lay out the best projections for cap situations in summer 20 and summer 21.

I can understand wanting to wait on using cap space. I can't for the life of me understand deliberately wanting to split it among 2-3 guys. Remember, we still have the room MLE this summer then the full MLE every year following to add such caliber of player.

IMO, like it or not, FA and #7 this year are likely the last chances that this roster build will have to add a high level talent without giving up assets. We have, at most, 4 high level talents now. EVERY team can use as many as 8 IMO before lesser players should become the priority. The key is to sign versatile players so you can use your starters and bench in various ways and be well positioned for a trade if the opportunity comes up.

Niko and Randall play 4/5

Harris plays 3/4

Barnes can basically play 2/3/4 at least defensively.

Brogdan can play 1/2.

Middleton can play 2/3/4.

Butler can play 1/2/3.

Get BPA!!!!!!!!!!

That's not true. The Bulls could continue punting their flexibility every couple of years as long as they want. Only give significant deals to core players and shuffle talent around them.

The problem with signing Butler is that you're buying high on a player's best years that you aren't going to get. Have we not learned this lesson already with Wallace and Boozer? Yes, those players were on good Bulls teams, but those deals turned ugly early into the contracts. Butler is better than both, but a decline is going to happen and he won't be worth 30%+ of the cap.

IMO it's inaccurate to say that we can keep punting flexibility down the road, especially to imply we can do so indefinitely. When you give deals to core players, you get capped out very quickly. IMO, Lauri +Porter+Zach (especially on his next deal) +Carter is essentially a capped out team just for those 4 guys going forward. If we don't add somebody else of note, we won't be able to, and will only be able to upgrade through mid to late first round picks and MLE players that we will still have if we pay a 5th guy now.

The MO has always and should always be to get a few quality young players on rookie deals and add at least one or two pretty high level vets that aren't super old (like Wade was) while the young guys are still cheap, then go up and over the cap to keep them, and keep filling out the bench with firsts that pan out a bit and MLE guys and always keep looking for an upgrade trade.

When we added Wallace and Boozer we greatly improved. Had we not added them then, we wouldn't have been able to. Each team had like 3 key players on rookie deals soon to be extended.

Sure you can sometimes punt a bit. We punted last year. Maybe, just maybe we should punt again but I don't think so cause the class next year sucks and Lauri and Porter will have huge cap holds the following year, that when combined with Lavine, Carter, #7, our 2020 pick will eat up most of our cap. And that would mean two whole seasons of being notably less than we could be, because it means signing zero players beyond those two years. And when you only sign guys for two years there are a lot of restrictions on keeping them over the cap if they fit well and you want to extend them. It's not full bird rights.

I think there is a terrible, terrible risk in not signing BPA in free agency this summer.

We may not necessarily agree on the players in question but I do agree on the timeline this is the year we need to spend up. The only thing that changes my attitude about it compared to this time last year is the fact that I don't expect us to be spending big money extending Dunn when he comes due and this time last year I kind of thought we were going to be boxed in with him.

[League Circles]

That's not true. The Bulls could continue punting their flexibility every couple of years as long as they want. Only give significant deals to core players and shuffle talent around them.

The problem with signing Butler is that you're buying high on a player's best years that you aren't going to get. Have we not learned this lesson already with Wallace and Boozer? Yes, those players were on good Bulls teams, but those deals turned ugly early into the contracts. Butler is better than both, but a decline is going to happen and he won't be worth 30%+ of the cap.

IMO it's inaccurate to say that we can keep punting flexibility down the road, especially to imply we can do so indefinitely. When you give deals to core players, you get capped out very quickly. IMO, Lauri +Porter+Zach (especially on his next deal) +Carter is essentially a capped out team just for those 4 guys going forward. If we don't add somebody else of note, we won't be able to, and will only be able to upgrade through mid to late first round picks and MLE players that we will still have if we pay a 5th guy now.

The MO has always and should always be to get a few quality young players on rookie deals and add at least one or two pretty high level vets that aren't super old (like Wade was) while the young guys are still cheap, then go up and over the cap to keep them, and keep filling out the bench with firsts that pan out a bit and MLE guys and always keep looking for an upgrade trade.

When we added Wallace and Boozer we greatly improved. Had we not added them then, we wouldn't have been able to. Each team had like 3 key players on rookie deals soon to be extended.

Sure you can sometimes punt a bit. We punted last year. Maybe, just maybe we should punt again but I don't think so cause the class next year sucks and Lauri and Porter will have huge cap holds the following year, that when combined with Lavine, Carter, #7, our 2020 pick will eat up most of our cap. And that would mean two whole seasons of being notably less than we could be, because it means signing zero players beyond those two years. And when you only sign guys for two years there are a lot of restrictions on keeping them over the cap if they fit well and you want to extend them. It's not full bird rights.

I think there is a terrible, terrible risk in not signing BPA in free agency this summer.

We may not necessarily agree on the players in question but I do agree on the timeline this is the year we need to spend up. The only thing that changes my attitude about it compared to this time last year is the fact that I don't expect us to be spending big money extending Dunn when he comes due and this time last year I kind of thought we were going to be boxed in with him.

I've had the same thoughts on Dunn, but finding out he's almost sure to not stay long term at starters money has been countered by finding out how bad the FA class is next year.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Just coming in to make a point or two.

1. I don’t buy for one second that the two just “crossed paths”. Possible? Sure. But likely? Not really. Just my opinion though. It’s just...what are the odds?

2. I see a lot of talk about the Bulls not having the money. Trust me, if the Bulls want to open up space for Butler or any other max level free agent, they can. What’s impossible now is for them to open up enough space for 2. That went bye bye when we traded for Porter.

This isn’t to say that we would or should go after Butler. But I think that people should understand that the Bulls aren’t exactly handcuffed as it pertains to the free agency game. They’ve meticulously left themselves with more flexibility than what many might think.

[Ccwatercraft]

IMO it's inaccurate to say that we can keep punting flexibility down the road, especially to imply we can do so indefinitely. When you give deals to core players, you get capped out very quickly. IMO, Lauri +Porter+Zach (especially on his next deal) +Carter is essentially a capped out team just for those 4 guys going forward. If we don't add somebody else of note, we won't be able to, and will only be able to upgrade through mid to late first round picks and MLE players that we will still have if we pay a 5th guy now.

The MO has always and should always be to get a few quality young players on rookie deals and add at least one or two pretty high level vets that aren't super old (like Wade was) while the young guys are still cheap, then go up and over the cap to keep them, and keep filling out the bench with firsts that pan out a bit and MLE guys and always keep looking for an upgrade trade.

When we added Wallace and Boozer we greatly improved. Had we not added them then, we wouldn't have been able to. Each team had like 3 key players on rookie deals soon to be extended.

Sure you can sometimes punt a bit. We punted last year. Maybe, just maybe we should punt again but I don't think so cause the class next year sucks and Lauri and Porter will have huge cap holds the following year, that when combined with Lavine, Carter, #7, our 2020 pick will eat up most of our cap. And that would mean two whole seasons of being notably less than we could be, because it means signing zero players beyond those two years. And when you only sign guys for two years there are a lot of restrictions on keeping them over the cap if they fit well and you want to extend them. It's not full bird rights.

I think there is a terrible, terrible risk in not signing BPA in free agency this summer.

We may not necessarily agree on the players in question but I do agree on the timeline this is the year we need to spend up. The only thing that changes my attitude about it compared to this time last year is the fact that I don't expect us to be spending big money extending Dunn when he comes due and this time last year I kind of thought we were going to be boxed in with him.

I've had the same thoughts on Dunn, but finding out he's almost sure to not stay long term at starters money has been countered by finding out how bad the FA class is next year.

Pssst. Don't tell anybody but I still like dunn. I'm hoping with his big contract year coming up that he's going to shock and awe. (Ok thats too much) At least be better.

But, even if he shocks us in a good way we're back to that same point if we don't spend the money in 2019 we're not going to be able to spend it in 2020, dunn will eat it up.

We need to spend every dime we possibly can this offseason.

[League Circles]

We may not necessarily agree on the players in question but I do agree on the timeline this is the year we need to spend up. The only thing that changes my attitude about it compared to this time last year is the fact that I don't expect us to be spending big money extending Dunn when he comes due and this time last year I kind of thought we were going to be boxed in with him.

I've had the same thoughts on Dunn, but finding out he's almost sure to not stay long term at starters money has been countered by finding out how bad the FA class is next year.

Pssst. Don't tell anybody but I still like dunn. I'm hoping with his big contract year coming up that he's going to shock and awe. (Ok thats too much) At least be better.

But, even if he shocks us in a good way we're back to that same point if we don't spend the money in 2019 we're not going to be able to spend it in 2020, dunn will eat it up.

We need to spend every dime we possibly can this offseason.

Haha I still like him too. Not enough to not try to get one or two upgrades to compete with him but plenty enough to want him to get a chance next year before just dumping him.

IMO neither the draft prospects at 7 nor the FA PG crop is that good, so I could see us doing something along the lines of say drafting Reddish at 7 to learn behind zach and Porter, sign somebody like Julius Randall with most or all of our cap space (say 18 million or something), sign Derrick Rose with the room MLE and have him and Dunn largely split the PG minutes. I could see both of them having good years, but of course Rose missing enough games due to injuries that extending Dunn comes back into the picture after next season as a reasonable or even no brainer idea.

[Red8911]

From Darnell Mayberry

"But contrary to viral speculation, Boylen did not have dinner with Butler at La Scarola, which would be a violation of tampering rules as Butler is still under contract to Philadelphia. According to a source, Boylen instead dined with new lead assistant Chris Fleming while the Golden State Warriors completed their sweep of the Portland Trail Blazers in the Western Conference Finals. Boylen and Butler crossed paths in the small restaurant as the coaches were departing and Butler and his party were arriving. The men briefly exchanged pleasantries and went their separate ways."

https://theathletic.com/989536/2019/05/22/scene-from-an-italian-restaurant-jimmy-butler-jim-boylen-and-realistic-free-agent-targets-for-the-bulls/

Im pretty sure Boylen followed Jimmy there and then “ran” into him by “accident”. Well played Jim Boylen, well played.

[League Circles]

The way I see it, odds they ran in together are like one in a thousand minimum.

Odds that the Bulls want Jimmy if they can get him and believe Boylen is their best angle and thus wanted Boylen to start now on Jimmy? At least 50%.

Odds the Bulls or someone would lie and say they just bumped into each other if caught like they were to avoid tampering charges? 100%.

I think a deal is very very far from being done but I think they probably did have dinner together and if so definitely talked about the possibility and concept of a return to chicago.

I mean Jesus when you're young and rich and on your summer vacation, you simply don't go to Chicago to hang out if you're not at least partially open to maybe playing there again at some point at least under some possible situations.

[jc23]

Let’s say it happened and you freed up space to sign jimmy. How would that starting 5 look? Do you have Otto come off the bench or does Zach start at the point?

Seems as if you would need a solid point guard to make everything work more smoothly. I’d be worried about jimmys ISO’s and Lavines being a dominant part of the offense. One thing is for sure, jimmy would get you back in the playoff mix.

[wonderboy2]

The way I see it, odds they ran in together are like one in a thousand minimum.

Odds that the Bulls want Jimmy if they can get him and believe Boylen is their best angle and thus wanted Boylen to start now on Jimmy? At least 50%.

Odds the Bulls or someone would lie and say they just bumped into each other if caught like they were to avoid tampering charges? 100%.

I think a deal is very very far from being done but I think they probably did have dinner together and if so definitely talked about the possibility and concept of a return to chicago.

I mean Jesus when you're young and rich and on your summer vacation, you simply don't go to Chicago to hang out if you're not at least partially open to maybe playing there again at some point at least under some possible situations.

Chicago is one of the best cities in the United States. There’s a ton of things to do in Chicago.

[Proven_Winner]

The way I see it, odds they ran in together are like one in a thousand minimum.

Odds that the Bulls want Jimmy if they can get him and believe Boylen is their best angle and thus wanted Boylen to start now on Jimmy? At least 50%.

Odds the Bulls or someone would lie and say they just bumped into each other if caught like they were to avoid tampering charges? 100%.

I think a deal is very very far from being done but I think they probably did have dinner together and if so definitely talked about the possibility and concept of a return to chicago.

I mean Jesus when you're young and rich and on your summer vacation, you simply don't go to Chicago to hang out if you're not at least partially open to maybe playing there again at some point at least under some possible situations.

Chicago is one of the best cities in the United States. There’s a ton of things to do in Chicago.

Yea but rarely do people look at the city like we would. To most its just a cold city with violence so in a sense I get what LC is saying.