What would you trade for Westbrook?

[Red Larrivee]

BTW, I love the Otto trade, but we fell into that trade just like we fell into 1.7%.

https://www.lakersnation.com/nba-rumors-lakers-bulls-had-kentavious-caldwell-pope-for-jabari-parker-trade-in-place/2019/04/15/



We went after KCP FIRST, and HE turned us down. Again, I love the Otto trade, but let's not make more out of it than what is was....luck. Pax told us that Otto was our big signing for the summer....which is really just him trying to cover his tracks. What would he have told us if KCP would have said yes? Would we have gone into this summer with $50M in cap space (KCP was an expiring) and still talked about 2021? Or we we have heard 2021 only AFTER we struck out again?

This was already known. However, Otto Porter was not available until Washington made him available. Here's a quote from the owner on 1/31:

Leonsis told WTOP flat-out: “We’re not trading any of those players.” He went on to say he “wouldn’t throw in the towel on this core..”
That last line should stick out more than the others, even more than his comments on team president Ernie Grunfeld’s future and how it is tied to them meeting their goals, which at this point appears to be making the playoffs.

The Bulls did get lucky that KCP vetoed the trade, but that doesn't take away from the Porter trade at all. They were not taking calls on Porter when the the Bulls went after KCP.



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I've stated this a million times. I LOVED the Otto trade. But we got LUCKY....TWICE.

Once that KCP turned it down, and once that Wall ended his season BEFORE the deadline...which in turn made Porter available.
Wizards announced February 5th that Wall was done.
We traded for Otto the next day.

Ok, so what does that change? Luck is the biggest factor in NBA success. We already knew that.



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[panthermark]

This was already known. However, Otto Porter was not available until Washington made him available. Here's a quote from the owner on 1/31:



The Bulls did get lucky that KCP vetoed the trade, but that doesn't take away from the Porter trade at all. They were not taking calls on Porter when the the Bulls went after KCP.



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I've stated this a million times. I LOVED the Otto trade. But we got LUCKY....TWICE.

Once that KCP turned it down, and once that Wall ended his season BEFORE the deadline...which in turn made Porter available.
Wizards announced February 5th that Wall was done.
We traded for Otto the next day.

Ok, so what does that change? Luck is the biggest factor in NBA success. We already knew that.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

One more feather in the "useless FO" cap.
Outside of our luck, what has this FO managed?

We literally fell backwards into the ONLY trade in which we traded FOR talent under GarPax.

Our biggest moves have been luck....things completely out of our hands.

*1.7%? Pure lucky bounce of lottery balls.
*Otto Porter? Pure luck the KCP didn't approve the trade AND that Wall went out right before the deadline.
*Hell, even Noah was a big chunk of luck.....mostly because Isiah Thomas is one of the worst GM's ever and bailed us out on Curry. BTW, that isn't hyperbole....google "Worst NBA GMs" and sift through various links. Most of them have IT as one of the top two or three worst GM's in history.
Didn't we originally go after Wiggins for Butler?

[Red Larrivee]

One more feather in the "useless FO" cap.
Outside of our luck, what has this FO managed?

We literally fell backwards into the ONLY trade in which we traded FOR talent under GarPax.

Our biggest moves have been luck....things completely out of our hands.

*1.7%? Pure lucky bounce of lottery balls.
*Otto Porter? Pure luck the KCP didn't approve the trade AND that Wall went out right before the deadline.
*Hell, even Noah was a big chunk of luck.....mostly because Isiah Thomas is one of the worst GM's ever and bailed us out on Curry. BTW, that isn't hyperbole....google "Worst NBA GMs" and sift through various links. Most of them have IT as one of the top two or three worst GM's in history.
Didn't we originally go after Wiggins for Butler?

So what you're telling me is that NBA general managers are significantly dependent on the incompetence of other general managers to make good trades.

You're going to be hard-pressed to find a team that wasn't the benefactor of big luck, whether through transactions or on the court. Every team competing for a championship this season is lucky that Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson both got injured at the end of the postseason. Otherwise, their chances would be drastically worse. We can play this game all day.

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[Peelboy]

One more feather in the "useless FO" cap.
Outside of our luck, what has this FO managed?

We literally fell backwards into the ONLY trade in which we traded FOR talent under GarPax.

Our biggest moves have been luck....things completely out of our hands.

*1.7%? Pure lucky bounce of lottery balls.
*Otto Porter? Pure luck the KCP didn't approve the trade AND that Wall went out right before the deadline.
*Hell, even Noah was a big chunk of luck.....mostly because Isiah Thomas is one of the worst GM's ever and bailed us out on Curry. BTW, that isn't hyperbole....google "Worst NBA GMs" and sift through various links. Most of them have IT as one of the top two or three worst GM's in history.
Didn't we originally go after Wiggins for Butler?

So what you're telling me is that NBA general managers are significantly dependent on the incompetence of other general managers to make good trades.

You're going to be hard-pressed to find a team that wasn't the benefactor of big luck, whether through transactions or on the court. Every team competing for a championship this season is lucky that Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson both got injured at the end of the postseason. Otherwise, their chances would be drastically worse. We can play this game all day.

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No, you see when Danny Ainge trades for Brooklyn's picks (and wastes most of the value in them), he's a genius. But when GarPax make a smart draft pick (Rose, Noah, Lauri), they got lucky. Oh yeah, and when GarPax make a bad draft pick it's all on them. And when Golden State offers Draymond in trade for Love and gets rejected, they were smart later when he becomes a star. But when Bulls lose out on KCP and end up with Otto, they got lucky. Or when 75%+ of NBA teams are unable to attract top shelf FAs (including teams like Boston), it doesn't matter - but when Garpax misses out on the big3 it's because they suck.

[panthermark]

One more feather in the "useless FO" cap.
Outside of our luck, what has this FO managed?

We literally fell backwards into the ONLY trade in which we traded FOR talent under GarPax.

Our biggest moves have been luck....things completely out of our hands.

*1.7%? Pure lucky bounce of lottery balls.
*Otto Porter? Pure luck the KCP didn't approve the trade AND that Wall went out right before the deadline.
*Hell, even Noah was a big chunk of luck.....mostly because Isiah Thomas is one of the worst GM's ever and bailed us out on Curry. BTW, that isn't hyperbole....google "Worst NBA GMs" and sift through various links. Most of them have IT as one of the top two or three worst GM's in history.
Didn't we originally go after Wiggins for Butler?

So what you're telling me is that NBA general managers are significantly dependent on the incompetence of other general managers to make good trades.

You're going to be hard-pressed to find a team that wasn't the benefactor of big luck, whether through transactions or on the court. Every team competing for a championship this season is lucky that Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson both got injured at the end of the postseason. Otherwise, their chances would be drastically worse. We can play this game all day.

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No, I'm telling you OUR FO is significantly dependent upon luck AND and taking advantage of the few and far between FO's more incompetent than themselves.

Every FO gets lucky, this FO depends on it for survival.

[TheJordanRule]

BTW, I love the Otto trade, but we fell into that trade just like we fell into 1.7%.

https://www.lakersnation.com/nba-rumors-lakers-bulls-had-kentavious-caldwell-pope-for-jabari-parker-trade-in-place/2019/04/15/



We went after KCP FIRST, and HE turned us down. Again, I love the Otto trade, but let's not make more out of it than what is was....luck. Pax told us that Otto was our big signing for the summer....which is really just him trying to cover his tracks. What would he have told us if KCP would have said yes? Would we have gone into this summer with $50M in cap space (KCP was an expiring) and still talked about 2021? Or we we have heard 2021 only AFTER we struck out again?

This was already known. However, Otto Porter was not available until Washington made him available. Here's a quote from the owner on 1/31:

Leonsis told WTOP flat-out: “We’re not trading any of those players.” He went on to say he “wouldn’t throw in the towel on this core..”
That last line should stick out more than the others, even more than his comments on team president Ernie Grunfeld’s future and how it is tied to them meeting their goals, which at this point appears to be making the playoffs.

The Bulls did get lucky that KCP vetoed the trade, but that doesn't take away from the Porter trade at all. They were not taking calls on Porter when the the Bulls went after KCP.



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I've stated this a million times. I LOVED the Otto trade. But we got LUCKY....TWICE.

Once that KCP turned it down, and once that Wall ended his season BEFORE the deadline...which in turn made Porter available.
Wizards announced February 5th that Wall was done.
We traded for Otto the next day.

Panthermark, if your criticism is that GarPax were just on the way to chase "the flexibility plan" and would have ruined it with KCP, that's a point well taken, but we should also credit the FO for improvising and coming up with an actual plan for a change. Otto was only available after injuries happened to Wall, so they read that situation like a book and swooped in to grab that advantage from the Wizards. That's an excellent move by the FO, not just pure luck. There's a huge difference between the 1.7 % "plan" and the trade for Otto, just like there's a huge difference between the flexibility "plan" and signing Sato and Young.

[Red Larrivee]

No, I'm telling you OUR FO is significantly dependent upon luck AND and taking advantage of the few and far between FO's more incompetent than themselves.

Every FO gets lucky, this FO depends on it for survival.

You just described every front office in the NBA.

Good thing Oklahoma City doesn't want to pay the tax, otherwise Daryl Morey wouldn't have James Harden.

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[panthermark]

One more feather in the "useless FO" cap.
Outside of our luck, what has this FO managed?

We literally fell backwards into the ONLY trade in which we traded FOR talent under GarPax.

Our biggest moves have been luck....things completely out of our hands.

*1.7%? Pure lucky bounce of lottery balls.
*Otto Porter? Pure luck the KCP didn't approve the trade AND that Wall went out right before the deadline.
*Hell, even Noah was a big chunk of luck.....mostly because Isiah Thomas is one of the worst GM's ever and bailed us out on Curry. BTW, that isn't hyperbole....google "Worst NBA GMs" and sift through various links. Most of them have IT as one of the top two or three worst GM's in history.
Didn't we originally go after Wiggins for Butler?

So what you're telling me is that NBA general managers are significantly dependent on the incompetence of other general managers to make good trades.

You're going to be hard-pressed to find a team that wasn't the benefactor of big luck, whether through transactions or on the court. Every team competing for a championship this season is lucky that Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson both got injured at the end of the postseason. Otherwise, their chances would be drastically worse. We can play this game all day.

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No, you see when Danny Ainge trades for Brooklyn's picks (and wastes most of the value in them), he's a genius. But when GarPax make a smart draft pick (Rose, Noah, Lauri), they got lucky. Oh yeah, and when GarPax make a bad draft pick it's all on them. And when Golden State offers Draymond in trade for Love and gets rejected, they were smart later when he becomes a star. But when Bulls lose out on KCP and end up with Otto, they got lucky. Or when 75%+ of NBA teams are unable to attract top shelf FAs (including teams like Boston), it doesn't matter - but when Garpax misses out on the big3 it's because they suck.

*Ben Wallace plan busted....Pax wasn't even watching the lotto drawing. 1.7% led to Rose. Luck

*For some unknown reason, one of the worst GM's in history bailed us out of the Curry issue. Pax was smart to take IT to the cleaners when he came calling, but we still don't know why he came calling.. We blew the #2 pick we got from NY (LMA/TT), but nailed the pick swap the following year. Noah

* We originally wanted Wiggins and the #5 pick (Dunn). Bulls were smart to grab Lauri in the following draft.....good thing the Wolves didn't accept our original demand.
https://www.si.com/nba/2016/06/15/jimmy-butler-trade-bulls-timberwolves-andrew-wiggins

The Minnesota Timberwolves are reportedly interested in trading their No. 5 draft pick for Bulls guard Jimmy Butler, but ESPN’s Darren Wolfson reports the Bulls will only trade Butler if the Wolves also give up guard Andrew Wiggins.

The Celtics, who hold the No. 3 pick in the draft, are also reportedly interested in acquiring Butler, so the Timberwolves would need to outmatch Boston’s trade offer, Wolfson reports.

Butler, 26, has averaged 13.6 points per game through his five-season NBA career and averaged at least 20 points per game over the last two seasons.

Wiggins, 21, was the No. 1 pick in the 2014 NBA draft and has averaged 18.8 points per game over his first two professional seasons.

Keep making excuses...16 years and counting.

[Red Larrivee]

This is turning into a conversation against simple logic.

Breaking News: Factors you can't control ultimately create opportunities for you. Also, your original preference for something could be wrong and inadvertently lead you to a better decision. Luck works in both ways.

This is the reality of being a general manager in any sport. There isn't a single executive in the NBA who this doesn't apply to. If Detroit took Dwayne Wade over Darko, then what are the last 16 years like for the Heat?

It's an endless game.

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[Hangtime84]

This is turning into a conversation against simple logic.

Breaking News: Factors you can't control ultimately create opportunities for you. Also, your original preference for something could be wrong and inadvertently lead you to a better decision. Luck works in both ways.

This is the reality of being a general manager in any sport. There isn't a single executive in the NBA who this doesn't apply to. If Detroit took Dwayne Wade over Darko, then what are the last 16 years like for the Heat?

It's an endless game.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Reality is bulls didn’t trade for him and Huston did. I see

[panthermark]

No, I'm telling you OUR FO is significantly dependent upon luck AND and taking advantage of the few and far between FO's more incompetent than themselves.

Every FO gets lucky, this FO depends on it for survival.

You just described every front office in the NBA.

Good thing Oklahoma City doesn't want to pay the tax, otherwise Daryl Morey wouldn't have James Harden.

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That isn't 100% true. Harden turned down their offer which would have eventually put them in the tax anyway.

More importantly, OKC is the smallest of small market teams....this Chicago. Good thing for Morey Pax didn't jump in there first (and no, I'm not saying we should have in hindsight...just pointing out that every GM had the chance...Morey is the one who did it).

[Peelboy]

So what you're telling me is that NBA general managers are significantly dependent on the incompetence of other general managers to make good trades.

You're going to be hard-pressed to find a team that wasn't the benefactor of big luck, whether through transactions or on the court. Every team competing for a championship this season is lucky that Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson both got injured at the end of the postseason. Otherwise, their chances would be drastically worse. We can play this game all day.

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No, you see when Danny Ainge trades for Brooklyn's picks (and wastes most of the value in them), he's a genius. But when GarPax make a smart draft pick (Rose, Noah, Lauri), they got lucky. Oh yeah, and when GarPax make a bad draft pick it's all on them. And when Golden State offers Draymond in trade for Love and gets rejected, they were smart later when he becomes a star. But when Bulls lose out on KCP and end up with Otto, they got lucky. Or when 75%+ of NBA teams are unable to attract top shelf FAs (including teams like Boston), it doesn't matter - but when Garpax misses out on the big3 it's because they suck.

*Ben Wallace plan busted....Pax wasn't even watching the lotto drawing. 1.7% led to Rose. Luck

*For some unknown reason, one of the worst GM's in history bailed us out of the Curry issue. Pax was smart to take IT to the cleaners when he came calling, but we still don't know why he came calling.. We blew the #2 pick we got from NY (LMA/TT), but nailed the pick swap the following year. Noah

* We originally wanted Wiggins and the #5 pick (Dunn). Bulls were smart to grab Lauri in the following draft.....good thing the Wolves didn't accept our original demand.
https://www.si.com/nba/2016/06/15/jimmy-butler-trade-bulls-timberwolves-andrew-wiggins

The Minnesota Timberwolves are reportedly interested in trading their No. 5 draft pick for Bulls guard Jimmy Butler, but ESPN’s Darren Wolfson reports the Bulls will only trade Butler if the Wolves also give up guard Andrew Wiggins.

The Celtics, who hold the No. 3 pick in the draft, are also reportedly interested in acquiring Butler, so the Timberwolves would need to outmatch Boston’s trade offer, Wolfson reports.

Butler, 26, has averaged 13.6 points per game through his five-season NBA career and averaged at least 20 points per game over the last two seasons.

Wiggins, 21, was the No. 1 pick in the 2014 NBA draft and has averaged 18.8 points per game over his first two professional seasons.

Keep making excuses...16 years and counting.

Let's see: what other teams have substantially benefitted from luck? And/or had bust moves? Hey - ALL THE GOOD ONES!
Boston:
*Gordon Hayward plan busted....
*For some unknown reason, one of the worst GMs in history traded Ainge all his picks for over the hill washed up vets Pierce and Garnett. Danny was smart to take Billy King to the cleaners when he came calling......
Ainge blew the #3 pick in the draft (ending up with role player Jaylen Brown) as well as the #6 (Marcus Smart - role player), the #5 (Jeff Green), the #7 (Randy Foye), and numerous mid-first picks including Fab Melo, James Young, Lucas Nogueira, Ante Zizic, Guerschon Yabusele.....

Houston:
*Daryl Morey was smart to take Sam Presti to the cleaners when he came calling and get Harden.

Warriors:
*Golden State was lucky that their first choice of trading David Lee, Harrison Barnes, and Draymond Green for Kevin Love was shot down by Minnesota who demanded Klay. No Draymond, no titles.

And the mother of all lucky teams in Cleveland (3 #1 picks in 5 years with 2 busting out, and the luck of LeBron being born in Akron.

Also great how you ignore the myriad excellent draft picks, the playoff streak under GarPax, etc.

[Peelboy]

No, I'm telling you OUR FO is significantly dependent upon luck AND and taking advantage of the few and far between FO's more incompetent than themselves.

Every FO gets lucky, this FO depends on it for survival.

You just described every front office in the NBA.

Good thing Oklahoma City doesn't want to pay the tax, otherwise Daryl Morey wouldn't have James Harden.

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That isn't 100% true. Harden turned down their offer which would have eventually put them in the tax anyway.

More importantly, OKC is the smallest of small market teams....this Chicago. Good thing for Morey Pax didn't jump in there first (and no, I'm not saying we should have in hindsight...just pointing out that every GM had the chance...Morey is the one who did it).

You mean like every team had the chance to try and trade for Otto but the Bulls actually did? Or every team had a chance to try and trade for the #7 (Lauri) but the Bulls actually did? No, those are different I'm sure......

[Red Larrivee]

No, I'm telling you OUR FO is significantly dependent upon luck AND and taking advantage of the few and far between FO's more incompetent than themselves.

Every FO gets lucky, this FO depends on it for survival.

You just described every front office in the NBA.

Good thing Oklahoma City doesn't want to pay the tax, otherwise Daryl Morey wouldn't have James Harden.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

That isn't 100% true. Harden turned down their offer which would have eventually put them in the tax anyway.

More importantly, OKC is the smallest of small market teams....this Chicago. Good thing for Morey Pax didn't jump in there first (and no, I'm not saying we should have in hindsight...just pointing out that every GM had the chance...Morey is the one who did it).

Just like every team had the chance to trade for Porter and Paxson is the one who did it.

Your stance is inconsistent.

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[panthermark]

You just described every front office in the NBA.

Good thing Oklahoma City doesn't want to pay the tax, otherwise Daryl Morey wouldn't have James Harden.

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That isn't 100% true. Harden turned down their offer which would have eventually put them in the tax anyway.

More importantly, OKC is the smallest of small market teams....this Chicago. Good thing for Morey Pax didn't jump in there first (and no, I'm not saying we should have in hindsight...just pointing out that every GM had the chance...Morey is the one who did it).

You mean like every team had the chance to try and trade for Otto but the Bulls actually did? Or every team had a chance to try and trade for the #7 (Lauri) but the Bulls actually did? No, those are different I'm sure......

This does not even make sense....Otto makes $27M...Harden was still on his rookie deal.
Every team had the chance to trade for the #7? Ummm...Ok...sure...in theory.....they only have to give up Jimmy Butler type player.

[panthermark]

You just described every front office in the NBA.

Good thing Oklahoma City doesn't want to pay the tax, otherwise Daryl Morey wouldn't have James Harden.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

That isn't 100% true. Harden turned down their offer which would have eventually put them in the tax anyway.

More importantly, OKC is the smallest of small market teams....this Chicago. Good thing for Morey Pax didn't jump in there first (and no, I'm not saying we should have in hindsight...just pointing out that every GM had the chance...Morey is the one who did it).

Just like every team had the chance to trade for Porter and Paxson is the one who did it.

Your stance is inconsistent.

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Are you really comparing trading for $27M Otto Porter the same as trading for Harden while still on a rookie contract? Luckily, KCP told us no thanks.

[Axolotl]

How I understood it at the time is that the KCP trade that didn't happen and the Porter trade that did are separate instances. It wasn't "we try to get KCP, and if we can't, we'll have a go at Porter as a consolation prize".

I may be wrong in this, but my impression was and still is that Porter was not considered available when the KCP trade was in the works.

[RedBulls23]

So what you're telling me is that NBA general managers are significantly dependent on the incompetence of other general managers to make good trades.

You're going to be hard-pressed to find a team that wasn't the benefactor of big luck, whether through transactions or on the court. Every team competing for a championship this season is lucky that Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson both got injured at the end of the postseason. Otherwise, their chances would be drastically worse. We can play this game all day.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

No, you see when Danny Ainge trades for Brooklyn's picks (and wastes most of the value in them), he's a genius. But when GarPax make a smart draft pick (Rose, Noah, Lauri), they got lucky. Oh yeah, and when GarPax make a bad draft pick it's all on them. And when Golden State offers Draymond in trade for Love and gets rejected, they were smart later when he becomes a star. But when Bulls lose out on KCP and end up with Otto, they got lucky. Or when 75%+ of NBA teams are unable to attract top shelf FAs (including teams like Boston), it doesn't matter - but when Garpax misses out on the big3 it's because they suck.

*Ben Wallace plan busted....Pax wasn't even watching the lotto drawing. 1.7% led to Rose. Luck

*For some unknown reason, one of the worst GM's in history bailed us out of the Curry issue. Pax was smart to take IT to the cleaners when he came calling, but we still don't know why he came calling.. We blew the #2 pick we got from NY (LMA/TT), but nailed the pick swap the following year. Noah

* We originally wanted Wiggins and the #5 pick (Dunn). Bulls were smart to grab Lauri in the following draft.....good thing the Wolves didn't accept our original demand.
https://www.si.com/nba/2016/06/15/jimmy-butler-trade-bulls-timberwolves-andrew-wiggins

The Minnesota Timberwolves are reportedly interested in trading their No. 5 draft pick for Bulls guard Jimmy Butler, but ESPN’s Darren Wolfson reports the Bulls will only trade Butler if the Wolves also give up guard Andrew Wiggins.

The Celtics, who hold the No. 3 pick in the draft, are also reportedly interested in acquiring Butler, so the Timberwolves would need to outmatch Boston’s trade offer, Wolfson reports.

Butler, 26, has averaged 13.6 points per game through his five-season NBA career and averaged at least 20 points per game over the last two seasons.

Wiggins, 21, was the No. 1 pick in the 2014 NBA draft and has averaged 18.8 points per game over his first two professional seasons.

Keep making excuses...16 years and counting.

Why does it matter that Pax wasn't watching the lottery when they had 1.7% chance?

[Red Larrivee]

That isn't 100% true. Harden turned down their offer which would have eventually put them in the tax anyway.

More importantly, OKC is the smallest of small market teams....this Chicago. Good thing for Morey Pax didn't jump in there first (and no, I'm not saying we should have in hindsight...just pointing out that every GM had the chance...Morey is the one who did it).

Just like every team had the chance to trade for Porter and Paxson is the one who did it.

Your stance is inconsistent.

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Are you really comparing trading for $27M Otto Porter the same as trading for Harden while still on a rookie contract? Luckily, KCP told us no thanks.

You literally just said that every team had a chance to trade for Harden, but Morey is the one who did it. How is that logic different from saying every team had the chance to trade for Porter, but Paxson is the one who did it? You're moving goalposts hard to justify bad logic.

Luckily for Houston, OKC said no thanks to paying the tax to keep Harden.

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[panthermark]

No, you see when Danny Ainge trades for Brooklyn's picks (and wastes most of the value in them), he's a genius. But when GarPax make a smart draft pick (Rose, Noah, Lauri), they got lucky. Oh yeah, and when GarPax make a bad draft pick it's all on them. And when Golden State offers Draymond in trade for Love and gets rejected, they were smart later when he becomes a star. But when Bulls lose out on KCP and end up with Otto, they got lucky. Or when 75%+ of NBA teams are unable to attract top shelf FAs (including teams like Boston), it doesn't matter - but when Garpax misses out on the big3 it's because they suck.

*Ben Wallace plan busted....Pax wasn't even watching the lotto drawing. 1.7% led to Rose. Luck

*For some unknown reason, one of the worst GM's in history bailed us out of the Curry issue. Pax was smart to take IT to the cleaners when he came calling, but we still don't know why he came calling.. We blew the #2 pick we got from NY (LMA/TT), but nailed the pick swap the following year. Noah

* We originally wanted Wiggins and the #5 pick (Dunn). Bulls were smart to grab Lauri in the following draft.....good thing the Wolves didn't accept our original demand.
https://www.si.com/nba/2016/06/15/jimmy-butler-trade-bulls-timberwolves-andrew-wiggins

The Minnesota Timberwolves are reportedly interested in trading their No. 5 draft pick for Bulls guard Jimmy Butler, but ESPN’s Darren Wolfson reports the Bulls will only trade Butler if the Wolves also give up guard Andrew Wiggins.

The Celtics, who hold the No. 3 pick in the draft, are also reportedly interested in acquiring Butler, so the Timberwolves would need to outmatch Boston’s trade offer, Wolfson reports.

Butler, 26, has averaged 13.6 points per game through his five-season NBA career and averaged at least 20 points per game over the last two seasons.

Wiggins, 21, was the No. 1 pick in the 2014 NBA draft and has averaged 18.8 points per game over his first two professional seasons.

Keep making excuses...16 years and counting.

Why does it matter that Pax wasn't watching the lottery when they had 1.7% chance?

In the long run it does not...because it does not change the outcome. But it does seem like something a GM who's in the lottery should do.