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Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition

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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#381 » by Michael Jackson » Sat Aug 3, 2019 3:17 am

R3AL1TY wrote:KD's past statement about the environment around LeBron being toxic seems more valid with Griffin's recent comment about feeling miserable with the Cavs. I wouldn't be surprised if that environment contributed to both K Love's and Tyronn Lue's depression too. The pressure to win a championship, the media expecting Lebron's team to be the favorite outside of the Warriors, the media blaming his teammates exclusively when they lose, and the media and LeBron expecting the FO to get top money players to play with him while LeBron only plays one way all is a lot to deal with if you want to be down with the King.



It’s tough being around Lebron for sure but I think Gilbert’s is even tougher to work with.
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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#382 » by sco » Sat Aug 3, 2019 12:42 pm

I love Rotoworld but they use logo's of last team guys were on and it bugs me in this case:

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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#383 » by ChaosHamster » Sat Aug 3, 2019 1:28 pm

Hi guys, didn't know where to post. But wanted to know, is the plan to start Lauri and Thadd as 4 and 5? Thanks
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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#384 » by Jcool0 » Sat Aug 3, 2019 3:23 pm

This contract isnt going to age well

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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#385 » by Indomitable » Sat Aug 3, 2019 3:28 pm

ChaosHamster wrote:Hi guys, didn't know where to post. But wanted to know, is the plan to start Lauri and Thadd as 4 and 5? Thanks

Thad comes of the bench. Wendell is the starting 5.
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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#386 » by RedBulls23 » Sat Aug 3, 2019 3:57 pm

Draymond at 4 years 100 mill extention isn't a bad deal at all. People will just look at scoring and will ignore all the other great things he does.
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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#387 » by R3AL1TY » Sat Aug 3, 2019 5:58 pm

I somewhat thought Draymond might leave due to his rocky season and KD possibly re-signing but it's good to see them keeping the nucleus together on fair deals. I would still like to see him be aggressive on offense when needed like in the recent Portland series.
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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#388 » by madvillian » Sat Aug 3, 2019 7:36 pm

RedBulls23 wrote:Draymond at 4 years 100 mill extention isn't a bad deal at all. People will just look at scoring and will ignore all the other great things he does.


If he's your 3rd best player you're a championship contender but you can only afford to pay him that much if you've already got a Steph or Durant or Klay imo.

I love his play, been convinced he's a top 20 guy for a couple years now after doubting him early on, but he's not a guy that will shine his best without a better scorer and playmaker around him. Sorta like Porter Jr. But if you have a Durant or Steph and then Draymond you're in business.
dumbell78 wrote:Random comment....Mikal Bridges stroke is dripping right now in summer league. Carry on.


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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#389 » by dougthonus » Sat Aug 3, 2019 10:31 pm

I think Green is the most overrated player in the NBA. That said, he's getting a deal that should hit pretty consistently around 20% of the cap which is commensurate with a guy who's probably top 50 or so rather than top 10. I think that's not so terrible a price under normal circumstances.

That said, because it's an extension, and it doesn't start for a year, and Draymond has generally declined the past two years, doesn't keep himself in elite condition, relies significantly on athleticism, and will be 30-33 over the life of this deal, I expect even this reasonable price to look stupid in a year.
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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#390 » by RedBulls23 » Sat Aug 3, 2019 10:42 pm

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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#391 » by dice » Sun Aug 4, 2019 7:27 am

dougthonus wrote:I think Green is the most overrated player in the NBA. That said, he's getting a deal that should hit pretty consistently around 20% of the cap which is commensurate with a guy who's probably top 50 or so rather than top 10. I think that's not so terrible a price under normal circumstances.

That said, because it's an extension, and it doesn't start for a year, and Draymond has generally declined the past two years, doesn't keep himself in elite condition, relies significantly on athleticism, and will be 30-33 over the life of this deal, I expect even this reasonable price to look stupid in a year.

meanwhile, the far less valuable klay thompson (same age) is getting a bigger deal, the first year of which he will be paid tens of millions to rehab. and don't get me started on d'angelo russell

and he's one of the most UNDERrated. great players who don't score generally are
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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#392 » by dougthonus » Sun Aug 4, 2019 1:14 pm

dice wrote:meanwhile, the far less valuable klay thompson (same age) is getting a bigger deal, the first year of which he will be paid tens of millions to rehab. and don't get me started on d'angelo russell


I think both of those contracts are horrible too. I think in 2 seasons, GS is going to look really stupid.

and he's one of the most UNDERrated. great players who don't score generally are


It depends on if you think offense and defense are equally valuable. I think efficient offense is a much more scarce resource and that it is much easier to increase defense through scheme and effort while increased offense isn't nearly as easily achieved.
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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#393 » by TheStig » Sun Aug 4, 2019 4:12 pm

dougthonus wrote:
dice wrote:meanwhile, the far less valuable klay thompson (same age) is getting a bigger deal, the first year of which he will be paid tens of millions to rehab. and don't get me started on d'angelo russell


I think both of those contracts are horrible too. I think in 2 seasons, GS is going to look really stupid.

and he's one of the most UNDERrated. great players who don't score generally are


It depends on if you think offense and defense are equally valuable. I think efficient offense is a much more scarce resource and that it is much easier to increase defense through scheme and effort while increased offense isn't nearly as easily achieved.

I don't know if they win another ring but I think they will continue to be a really good team in the West. I also wouldn't be surprised to see them flip Russel and/or Green.
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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#394 » by dougthonus » Sun Aug 4, 2019 6:46 pm

TheStig wrote:I don't know if they win another ring but I think they will continue to be a really good team in the West. I also wouldn't be surprised to see them flip Russel and/or Green.


I guess it depends what you define as good. I do not think the Warriors will get out of the second round in the next five years and would set their over/under on playoff series wins over that time period at 2.

I could be wrong of course. I would say the following things are going to happen over the next year:
1: Steph Curry will begin struggling to stay healthy

With Durant gone and Klay gone to start the season, there will be an enormous burden on Steph to create shots. The whole league saw the Raptors go box and 1 and dare the Warriors to beat them and found them unable to do so. I think Steph is going to be overloaded with coverage due to the lack of quality teammates around him (particularly shooters) and will wear down due to that burden as well as just put up the least efficient numbers we've seen in a long time.

2: Klay Thompson will not be effective this season

Klay seems like a gamer, but we've seen that guys typically need closer to 18 months to hit their peak after an ACL surgery and that peak is likely lower than it was prior to surgery, especially for a guy who will be 30 before he suits up for another game. This isn't like a much younger guy tearing his. I'd guess we never see Klay at anything close to the level he was before. He may still be a deadly shooter, but his defense will likely tick downward considerably as will his ability to drive making him closer to a Kyle Korver type player than a superstar.

3: Draymond Green won't look nearly so useful as people

He'll do the same things he's always done, but his offensive limitations will be more glaring with only one great scorer on the floor with him. People will look for Green to do more and find that in the end, offensively he probably can't. His defense will continue its decline due to age. Similar to Ben Wallace, at his core, he's still pretty undersized to do a lot of what he does. Unlike Ben Wallace, Green doesn't run with like 2-3% body fat and will likely slow down much sooner.

If I go out two years, Klay should be playing a bit better, but Curry/Green continue to decline, and the salaries will make it difficult to do much else to add to the team.

I think what could mitigate many of these problems are if D'Angelo Russell finds an efficient offensive game to help take that burden as another scorer over. His questionable fit next to Curry will make that more of a challenge, but if Russell can step up from where he was last year to a legit top 20 type talent then a lot of the above can be mitigated considerably.
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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#395 » by TheFinishSniper » Sun Aug 4, 2019 7:04 pm

It will be interesting to watch Warriors. Many things with Warriors worked because Klay could score without ball in his hands. There was a system, familiar system. Draymond was also not negative on offense when Steph was MVP.

Russell is guy who isnt off ball player, he can't create spacing like Klay or be effective in that role. Neither he wants that by the way. Steph is also not young anymore. He is 31 and possible playoffs he will be 32. He can carry a team, but we have what 5 years of NBA tape on him how to defend him. And it's easier to defend him now without either Klay and Durant.

When Klay gets back he will be bad. That's no question, even when Zach come back and he took extra time he come back rusty as hell and without conditioning after games started piling up. And Zach is best example of guy with ACL who come back on the floor. And Klay will be 30 when he steps on the floor first time after ACL.

Sometimes when you get stacked you get entitled and forget how hard it is to work for every shot every game, 82 games. They have no bench side Looney. At least not proven contributors. There have no actual small forward on roster, not even average one. There is no Iggy. I think Bulls fans know well how it goes when Justin Holiday's of this world defends PG13, Kawhi, Lebron, Giannis etc. Then you have others like Jimmy, Otto, Middleton etc

Getting Otto for us was almost blessing after losing Jimmy on wing position. It actually made us decent team.
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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#396 » by TheStig » Sun Aug 4, 2019 7:28 pm

dougthonus wrote:
TheStig wrote:I don't know if they win another ring but I think they will continue to be a really good team in the West. I also wouldn't be surprised to see them flip Russel and/or Green.


I guess it depends what you define as good. I do not think the Warriors will get out of the second round in the next five years and would set their over/under on playoff series wins over that time period at 2.

I could be wrong of course. I would say the following things are going to happen over the next year:
1: Steph Curry will begin struggling to stay healthy

With Durant gone and Klay gone to start the season, there will be an enormous burden on Steph to create shots. The whole league saw the Raptors go box and 1 and dare the Warriors to beat them and found them unable to do so. I think Steph is going to be overloaded with coverage due to the lack of quality teammates around him (particularly shooters) and will wear down due to that burden as well as just put up the least efficient numbers we've seen in a long time.

2: Klay Thompson will not be effective this season

Klay seems like a gamer, but we've seen that guys typically need closer to 18 months to hit their peak after an ACL surgery and that peak is likely lower than it was prior to surgery, especially for a guy who will be 30 before he suits up for another game. This isn't like a much younger guy tearing his. I'd guess we never see Klay at anything close to the level he was before. He may still be a deadly shooter, but his defense will likely tick downward considerably as will his ability to drive making him closer to a Kyle Korver type player than a superstar.

3: Draymond Green won't look nearly so useful as people

He'll do the same things he's always done, but his offensive limitations will be more glaring with only one great scorer on the floor with him. People will look for Green to do more and find that in the end, offensively he probably can't. His defense will continue its decline due to age. Similar to Ben Wallace, at his core, he's still pretty undersized to do a lot of what he does. Unlike Ben Wallace, Green doesn't run with like 2-3% body fat and will likely slow down much sooner.

If I go out two years, Klay should be playing a bit better, but Curry/Green continue to decline, and the salaries will make it difficult to do much else to add to the team.

I think what could mitigate many of these problems are if D'Angelo Russell finds an efficient offensive game to help take that burden as another scorer over. His questionable fit next to Curry will make that more of a challenge, but if Russell can step up from where he was last year to a legit top 20 type talent then a lot of the above can be mitigated considerably.

I think next year will be a struggle and I don't think they'll make it past the 2nd round either unless they just get off to a really good start. Which I view as doubtful.

But I think their big 3 game will age well. Steph isn't reliant on athleticism. He is quick, smart, crafty and a great shooter. I don't see that falling off. Klay is very sound fundementally. Draymond is very smart and skilled outside of shooting. I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the ECF next year after a move or two and a good mle signing.

I also think they will pull off a move. If they move Russell and Draymond for picks, they can open up max cap space for another legit star after next year. So I think they have a lot of flexibility going forward.
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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#397 » by dougthonus » Sun Aug 4, 2019 9:45 pm

TheStig wrote:I think next year will be a struggle and I don't think they'll make it past the 2nd round either unless they just get off to a really good start. Which I view as doubtful.


Yeah, this next year is probably not great either way, and I don't think anyone would blame them for that.

But I think their big 3 game will age well. Steph isn't reliant on athleticism. He is quick, smart, crafty and a great shooter. I don't see that falling off. Klay is very sound fundementally. Draymond is very smart and skilled outside of shooting. I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the ECF next year after a move or two and a good mle signing.


I guess we'll find out!

I also think they will pull off a move. If they move Russell and Draymond for picks, they can open up max cap space for another legit star after next year. So I think they have a lot of flexibility going forward.


I don't think you're going to find deals to move these guys for much value.

Also, next season, the Warriors will have 87M tied up in just Klay/Curry/roster charges even if they dumped every single other player on the team for cap room. That would leave a projected 30M left to sign someone, less than the 7 year vet max that any UFAs would have.

Also, no one to sign that year anyway. If you go out to 21 offseason then they will have an increase of 5M in total salary with those two guys and the cap may or may not go up that much so it may be slightly better or slightly worse, but the current estimate is 125M and that would put the 7 year max at 37.5M and the Warriors having around 32M to offer.

I guess, in short, FA doesn't seem likely a likely avenue for improvement for them. Having 30M of space likely doesn't make up for losing Russell, Green, and Looney (plus any of their rookies if they work out).

I think what is more likely for them is to pull off some type of trade. After July 1st, their hard cap rolls off the books, and they will have 1 week to use the Andre Iguodala trade exception and can add 15M or so in salary to their books through a trade. They could maybe through in their 2020 + 2022 or any single pick 2020-2022 and not take back salary for a good player.

I think that is their best bet and probably the avenue they attempt to go down, but I suspect they'll end up with an extremely highly paid seed in the 6-8 range.
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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#398 » by PaKii94 » Sun Aug 4, 2019 10:42 pm

I think one thing gsw can do to remain elite is play Steph off ball a lot more and let Russell handle the pg role. Let Steph be even more of an SG
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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#399 » by leo921 » Sun Aug 4, 2019 10:46 pm

If I was the Warriors I would use this year to tank in order to add talent for the future. As noted above between Curry, Thompson,Green and Russell there is no cap space for the next 3-5 years. Yes they could try trading Russell for depth pieces but do not see that working out well.

The Warriors are in the West so can see them winning like 30-40 games, missing the playoffs (load manage Curry and Green) and then with some lotto luck a top 4 pick. Even the 10th pick would get them a good talent that can add depth on a rookie contract.

Then the next year they would have a healthy and more rested team with young talent to help carry the load
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Re: Around The NBA: Off-Season Edition 

Post#400 » by Michael Jackson » Mon Aug 5, 2019 12:16 am

leo921 wrote:If I was the Warriors I would use this year to tank in order to add talent for the future. As noted above between Curry, Thompson,Green and Russell there is no cap space for the next 3-5 years. Yes they could try trading Russell for depth pieces but do not see that working out well.

The Warriors are in the West so can see them winning like 30-40 games, missing the playoffs (load manage Curry and Green) and then with some lotto luck a top 4 pick. Even the 10th pick would get them a good talent that can add depth on a rookie contract.

Then the next year they would have a healthy and more rested team with young talent to help carry the load



Let Russell play for a trade, try to get a lucky lottery like NOLA and miss the playoffs. Hell maybe let NOLA leapfrog you. Let Klay get healthy. Try to pull a David Robinson is out type tank year. That’s their best bet. Don’t think they can do that though because the wheels may completely fall off if you go that route. I think they will want to remain competitive.

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