Positive Press: Zach Lowe likes the Bulls offseason

[pipfan]

I guess I don't see the negativity in Lowe's piece. We have a very good young core-let's see what happens. We are a deep, balanced team. Lavine just put up 23-4-4 and Lauri 19-9 in a crap season. I see them both challenging for the ASG.

Porter is a big question. If he has a great year-that pushes towards the playoffs, but also pushes him towards an optout/max deal next summer

[bulliedog8]

I mean if the goal is to be a treadmill 7th or 8th seed, we've done great. Unless Lauri or White blossom into real stars, I just don't see this team developing into anything special. I was disappointed we gave away our cap space in 2 years. I would have hoped that we could have brought in vets on 2 years deals.

I just think management rushes into trying to make the playoffs. The interesting thing is, what if they fail this year?

We haven't seen all the specifics, but it seems that the year 3 for Sato, Thad and Arci are team options or partially guaranteed. I strongly suspect the Bulls will have more than a max to offer in 2021.

At the end of the day though, the Bulls aren't going to build like LA or Miami. Players don't want to be in Chicago. If they are going to win, its going to be like Toronto where they get mediocre and then slowly improve by making lots of small beneficial transactions.

Nets, Jazz, Warriors, Raptors, Bucks, Nuggets, Blazers, etc. All the current top teams (minus the la teams), that have won/been successful and not have a handful of high end lottery players. They all slowly built and added pieces when they saw fit.

Staying in the top of the lotto constantly isnt a recipe for success. Having a competent front office is in terms of drafting, making good trades, and valuable free agent signings. It would be a success if the Bulls incrementally improved as follows.

2019-20: 42 win 8 seed 1st round exit sweep
20-21: 45 seed 6-7 seed 1st round exit in 6-7 games
21-22: 52 wins 3-4 seed 2nd round exit 6-7 games
22-23: 56 wins 2-3 seed contender to make the finals.

Look at the Blazers. People have wanted them to blow up and trade lillard and/or mccollum for the last 2-3 years minimum. Then they broke through and made a WCFs for the first time since 2000.

People wanted the raptors to blow up since losing to the cavs in 6 games in 2016, then again getting swept in round 2 in 2017, and then again getting swept in round 2 in 2018. Instead, they kept adding pieces, drafting well, made an amazing trade, and then won the finals.

People thought the Jazz should blow up after Hayward walked. Instead they kept building and making smart signings and trades. Now they are one of the top teams in the west.

People, myself included, need to learn to be patient. Let this team build together the next 2-3 years and just make continuous improvements through the draft and trades and smart signings and the bulls will be alright.

[coldfish]

I mean if the goal is to be a treadmill 7th or 8th seed, we've done great. Unless Lauri or White blossom into real stars, I just don't see this team developing into anything special. I was disappointed we gave away our cap space in 2 years. I would have hoped that we could have brought in vets on 2 years deals.

I just think management rushes into trying to make the playoffs. The interesting thing is, what if they fail this year?

We haven't seen all the specifics, but it seems that the year 3 for Sato, Thad and Arci are team options or partially guaranteed. I strongly suspect the Bulls will have more than a max to offer in 2021.

At the end of the day though, the Bulls aren't going to build like LA or Miami. Players don't want to be in Chicago. If they are going to win, its going to be like Toronto where they get mediocre and then slowly improve by making lots of small beneficial transactions.

Nets, Jazz, Warriors, Raptors, Bucks, Nuggets, Blazers, etc. All the current top teams (minus the la teams), that have won/been successful and not have a handful of high end lottery players. They all slowly built and added pieces when they saw fit.

Staying in the top of the lotto constantly isnt a recipe for success. Having a competent front office is in terms of drafting, making good trades, and valuable free agent signings. It would be a success if the Bulls incrementally improved as follows.

2019-20: 42 win 8 seed 1st round exit sweep
20-21: 45 seed 6-7 seed 1st round exit in 6-7 games
21-22: 52 wins 3-4 seed 2nd round exit 6-7 games
22-23: 56 wins 2-3 seed contender to make the finals.

Look at the Blazers. People have wanted them to blow up and trade lillard and/or mccollum for the last 2-3 years minimum. Then they broke through and made a WCFs for the first time since 2000.

People wanted the raptors to blow up since losing to the cavs in 6 games in 2016, then again getting swept in round 2 in 2017, and then again getting swept in round 2 in 2018. Instead, they kept adding pieces, drafting well, made an amazing trade, and then won the finals.

People thought the Jazz should blow up after Hayward walked. Instead they kept building and making smart signings and trades. Now they are one of the top teams in the west.

People, myself included, need to learn to be patient. Let this team build together the next 2-3 years and just make continuous improvements through the draft and trades and smart signings and the bulls will be alright.

I'm old unfortunately. The best thing about the dynasty run was the time before it. So many moves, changes, etc. with the team slowly getting better. They didn't just assemble like the Heatles. It took them years, with lots of embarrassments before they won. Their first title was in MJ's 7th year and they were actually the underdogs against the veteran Lakers. Just about no one thought the Bulls were about to go on a dynasty level run in 1990.

A lot of people would have blown the dynasty Bulls up before they even won anything. Some of the narratives at the time:
- MJ is a chucker and SG's don't win titles
- MJ doesn't play defense
- Pippen is soft
- No PG
- No post player

Obviously I'm not comparing the current Bulls to the 80's MJ Bulls but I am pointing out that the complete lack of patience is actually detrimental to the team.

[Mech Engineer]

We haven't seen all the specifics, but it seems that the year 3 for Sato, Thad and Arci are team options or partially guaranteed. I strongly suspect the Bulls will have more than a max to offer in 2021.

At the end of the day though, the Bulls aren't going to build like LA or Miami. Players don't want to be in Chicago. If they are going to win, its going to be like Toronto where they get mediocre and then slowly improve by making lots of small beneficial transactions.

Nets, Jazz, Warriors, Raptors, Bucks, Nuggets, Blazers, etc. All the current top teams (minus the la teams), that have won/been successful and not have a handful of high end lottery players. They all slowly built and added pieces when they saw fit.

Staying in the top of the lotto constantly isnt a recipe for success. Having a competent front office is in terms of drafting, making good trades, and valuable free agent signings. It would be a success if the Bulls incrementally improved as follows.

2019-20: 42 win 8 seed 1st round exit sweep
20-21: 45 seed 6-7 seed 1st round exit in 6-7 games
21-22: 52 wins 3-4 seed 2nd round exit 6-7 games
22-23: 56 wins 2-3 seed contender to make the finals.

Look at the Blazers. People have wanted them to blow up and trade lillard and/or mccollum for the last 2-3 years minimum. Then they broke through and made a WCFs for the first time since 2000.

People wanted the raptors to blow up since losing to the cavs in 6 games in 2016, then again getting swept in round 2 in 2017, and then again getting swept in round 2 in 2018. Instead, they kept adding pieces, drafting well, made an amazing trade, and then won the finals.

People thought the Jazz should blow up after Hayward walked. Instead they kept building and making smart signings and trades. Now they are one of the top teams in the west.

People, myself included, need to learn to be patient. Let this team build together the next 2-3 years and just make continuous improvements through the draft and trades and smart signings and the bulls will be alright.

I'm old unfortunately. The best thing about the dynasty run was the time before it. So many moves, changes, etc. with the team slowly getting better. They didn't just assemble like the Heatles. It took them years, with lots of embarrassments before they won. Their first title was in MJ's 7th year and they were actually the underdogs against the veteran Lakers. Just about no one thought the Bulls were about to go on a dynasty level run in 1990.

A lot of people would have blown the dynasty Bulls up before they even won anything. Some of the narratives at the time:
- MJ is a chucker and SG's don't win titles
- MJ doesn't play defense
- Pippen is soft
- No PG
- No post player

Obviously I'm not comparing the current Bulls to the 80's MJ Bulls but I am pointing out that the complete lack of patience is actually detrimental to the team.

The problem with patience are a few things:

1. It is not the fans who have been impatient to blow it up, it's been the front office. Then the fans jump on the bandwagon of blowing it up. Look at how they blew the Butler teams without proper additions. This organization is the one which keeps going back to emptying the roster for cap-space driven free agency recruitment. The side effect is ...when you don't get the superstars, that emptied out team takes a long time to get back to even mediocre levels.

This is what I am scared for 2021 again. They will sell somebody like Porter or a decent player for cheap because they are after Giannis and cap-space. If they fail, the talent now will be usually inferior or average replacements who cost more.

2. The MJ era type teams cannot be built nowadays. MJ grew up for 7 years and remained healthy for a long, long time. The free agency/trade methodology was different. You need patience but not much that patience. You can build good teams faster now because of more information.

3. Patience is great but the ability to smartly sell at the right time is important. As others have mentioned..Noah, Deng, Niko all could have been traded for great pieces if they were proactive. The same with Dunn, in a sense. And, honestly, I feel the same with Lauri if he doesn't develop play making skills.

The most important thing is to accumulate future picks and other team's picks. That's why the Bulls team can't make trades because they never have assets for available stars and that is because they never trade guys like Noah at the right time. The Clippers got George because they had accumulated picks. Teams like Dallas are always ready to throw away picks because they don't rely on the draft as much as others.

Every time there is a star traded, we hear the same old story that the Bulls don't have the assets.

[contestedlayups]

Unfortunately, I liked what the Bulls did this offseason too, as my disdain for the front office has subsided for now. This is a team waiting to bust out, and as long as they remain relatively healthy, they will.

[coldfish]

Nets, Jazz, Warriors, Raptors, Bucks, Nuggets, Blazers, etc. All the current top teams (minus the la teams), that have won/been successful and not have a handful of high end lottery players. They all slowly built and added pieces when they saw fit.

Staying in the top of the lotto constantly isnt a recipe for success. Having a competent front office is in terms of drafting, making good trades, and valuable free agent signings. It would be a success if the Bulls incrementally improved as follows.

2019-20: 42 win 8 seed 1st round exit sweep
20-21: 45 seed 6-7 seed 1st round exit in 6-7 games
21-22: 52 wins 3-4 seed 2nd round exit 6-7 games
22-23: 56 wins 2-3 seed contender to make the finals.

Look at the Blazers. People have wanted them to blow up and trade lillard and/or mccollum for the last 2-3 years minimum. Then they broke through and made a WCFs for the first time since 2000.

People wanted the raptors to blow up since losing to the cavs in 6 games in 2016, then again getting swept in round 2 in 2017, and then again getting swept in round 2 in 2018. Instead, they kept adding pieces, drafting well, made an amazing trade, and then won the finals.

People thought the Jazz should blow up after Hayward walked. Instead they kept building and making smart signings and trades. Now they are one of the top teams in the west.

People, myself included, need to learn to be patient. Let this team build together the next 2-3 years and just make continuous improvements through the draft and trades and smart signings and the bulls will be alright.

I'm old unfortunately. The best thing about the dynasty run was the time before it. So many moves, changes, etc. with the team slowly getting better. They didn't just assemble like the Heatles. It took them years, with lots of embarrassments before they won. Their first title was in MJ's 7th year and they were actually the underdogs against the veteran Lakers. Just about no one thought the Bulls were about to go on a dynasty level run in 1990.

A lot of people would have blown the dynasty Bulls up before they even won anything. Some of the narratives at the time:
- MJ is a chucker and SG's don't win titles
- MJ doesn't play defense
- Pippen is soft
- No PG
- No post player

Obviously I'm not comparing the current Bulls to the 80's MJ Bulls but I am pointing out that the complete lack of patience is actually detrimental to the team.

The problem with patience are a few things:

1. It is not the fans who have been impatient to blow it up, it's been the front office. Then the fans jump on the bandwagon of blowing it up. Look at how they blew the Butler teams without proper additions. This organization is the one which keeps going back to emptying the roster for cap-space driven free agency recruitment. The side effect is ...when you don't get the superstars, that emptied out team takes a long time to get back to even mediocre levels.

This is what I am scared for 2021 again. They will sell somebody like Porter or a decent player for cheap because they are after Giannis and cap-space. If they fail, the talent now will be usually inferior or average replacements who cost more.

2. The MJ era type teams cannot be built nowadays. MJ grew up for 7 years and remained healthy for a long, long time. The free agency/trade methodology was different. You need patience but not much that patience. You can build good teams faster now because of more information.

3. Patience is great but the ability to smartly sell at the right time is important. As others have mentioned..Noah, Deng, Niko all could have been traded for great pieces if they were proactive. The same with Dunn, in a sense. And, honestly, I feel the same with Lauri if he doesn't develop play making skills.

The most important thing is to accumulate future picks and other team's picks. That's why the Bulls team can't make trades because they never have assets for available stars and that is because they never trade guys like Noah at the right time. The Clippers got George because they had accumulated picks. Teams like Dallas are always ready to throw away picks because they don't rely on the draft as much as others.

Every time there is a star traded, we hear the same old story that the Bulls don't have the assets.

Random comments:
- I agree that Chicago needs some patience. IMO, their ever chasing for flexibility and letting players go is really just a way to keep their payroll down.
- I agree that they need to sell at the right time. This is part of my comment about making smart moves over time to build.
- The Bulls really didn't have assets. That 2012-2016 period killed them. The cupboard was so bare that if they made a superstar trade, they would have nothing left. Hopefully that's almost over.

[TheStig]

I'm old unfortunately. The best thing about the dynasty run was the time before it. So many moves, changes, etc. with the team slowly getting better. They didn't just assemble like the Heatles. It took them years, with lots of embarrassments before they won. Their first title was in MJ's 7th year and they were actually the underdogs against the veteran Lakers. Just about no one thought the Bulls were about to go on a dynasty level run in 1990.

A lot of people would have blown the dynasty Bulls up before they even won anything. Some of the narratives at the time:
- MJ is a chucker and SG's don't win titles
- MJ doesn't play defense
- Pippen is soft
- No PG
- No post player

Obviously I'm not comparing the current Bulls to the 80's MJ Bulls but I am pointing out that the complete lack of patience is actually detrimental to the team.

The problem with patience are a few things:

1. It is not the fans who have been impatient to blow it up, it's been the front office. Then the fans jump on the bandwagon of blowing it up. Look at how they blew the Butler teams without proper additions. This organization is the one which keeps going back to emptying the roster for cap-space driven free agency recruitment. The side effect is ...when you don't get the superstars, that emptied out team takes a long time to get back to even mediocre levels.

This is what I am scared for 2021 again. They will sell somebody like Porter or a decent player for cheap because they are after Giannis and cap-space. If they fail, the talent now will be usually inferior or average replacements who cost more.

2. The MJ era type teams cannot be built nowadays. MJ grew up for 7 years and remained healthy for a long, long time. The free agency/trade methodology was different. You need patience but not much that patience. You can build good teams faster now because of more information.

3. Patience is great but the ability to smartly sell at the right time is important. As others have mentioned..Noah, Deng, Niko all could have been traded for great pieces if they were proactive. The same with Dunn, in a sense. And, honestly, I feel the same with Lauri if he doesn't develop play making skills.

The most important thing is to accumulate future picks and other team's picks. That's why the Bulls team can't make trades because they never have assets for available stars and that is because they never trade guys like Noah at the right time. The Clippers got George because they had accumulated picks. Teams like Dallas are always ready to throw away picks because they don't rely on the draft as much as others.

Every time there is a star traded, we hear the same old story that the Bulls don't have the assets.

Random comments:
- I agree that Chicago needs some patience. IMO, their ever chasing for flexibility and letting players go is really just a way to keep their payroll down.
- I agree that they need to sell at the right time. This is part of my comment about making smart moves over time to build.
- The Bulls really didn't have assets. That 2012-2016 period killed them. The cupboard was so bare that if they made a superstar trade, they would have nothing left. Hopefully that's almost over.

CF the cupboard being bare isn't a problem. The Bulls don't trade picks. I don't think GarPax have ever owed a 1st round pick. They certainly have never traded for a star. Nor signed one.

I can't see them going out there and offering 4-5 1sts for PG or AD like the LA teams did. I can't see a guy saying I want to come and play for the brain trust of GarPax and Boylen.

So what happens from here? Mediocrity. We're in a rush to make the 8th seed. While we sucked, we never took on bad deals to get picks. Instead we brought in vets to make mediocrity happen quickly. Rebuilding teams don't take on Porter, Young and Tomas.

Atlanta for example has a much better future. They're loaded with recent draft picks, a couple of additional picks and will have cap space the next couple of years.

IMHO these guys have no long term plan or vision. For a FO that has been in place as one of the longest tenure groups, I don't feel they're equipped to manage anymore. The game has passed them by. Nothing about the Bulls seems smart. They just make jumpy decisions without considering the long term or realistic short term games.

[cjbulls]

The problem with patience are a few things:

1. It is not the fans who have been impatient to blow it up, it's been the front office. Then the fans jump on the bandwagon of blowing it up. Look at how they blew the Butler teams without proper additions. This organization is the one which keeps going back to emptying the roster for cap-space driven free agency recruitment. The side effect is ...when you don't get the superstars, that emptied out team takes a long time to get back to even mediocre levels.

This is what I am scared for 2021 again. They will sell somebody like Porter or a decent player for cheap because they are after Giannis and cap-space. If they fail, the talent now will be usually inferior or average replacements who cost more.

2. The MJ era type teams cannot be built nowadays. MJ grew up for 7 years and remained healthy for a long, long time. The free agency/trade methodology was different. You need patience but not much that patience. You can build good teams faster now because of more information.

3. Patience is great but the ability to smartly sell at the right time is important. As others have mentioned..Noah, Deng, Niko all could have been traded for great pieces if they were proactive. The same with Dunn, in a sense. And, honestly, I feel the same with Lauri if he doesn't develop play making skills.

The most important thing is to accumulate future picks and other team's picks. That's why the Bulls team can't make trades because they never have assets for available stars and that is because they never trade guys like Noah at the right time. The Clippers got George because they had accumulated picks. Teams like Dallas are always ready to throw away picks because they don't rely on the draft as much as others.

Every time there is a star traded, we hear the same old story that the Bulls don't have the assets.

Random comments:
- I agree that Chicago needs some patience. IMO, their ever chasing for flexibility and letting players go is really just a way to keep their payroll down.
- I agree that they need to sell at the right time. This is part of my comment about making smart moves over time to build.
- The Bulls really didn't have assets. That 2012-2016 period killed them. The cupboard was so bare that if they made a superstar trade, they would have nothing left. Hopefully that's almost over.

CF the cupboard being bare isn't a problem. The Bulls don't trade picks. I don't think GarPax have ever owed a 1st round pick. They certainly have never traded for a star. Nor signed one.

I can't see them going out there and offering 4-5 1sts for PG or AD like the LA teams did. I can't see a guy saying I want to come and play for the brain trust of GarPax and Boylen.

So what happens from here? Mediocrity. We're in a rush to make the 8th seed. While we sucked, we never took on bad deals to get picks. Instead we brought in vets to make mediocrity happen quickly. Rebuilding teams don't take on Porter, Young and Tomas.

Atlanta for example has a much better future. They're loaded with recent draft picks, a couple of additional picks and will have cap space the next couple of years.

IMHO these guys have no long term plan or vision. For a FO that has been in place as one of the longest tenure groups, I don't feel they're equipped to manage anymore. The game has passed them by. Nothing about the Bulls seems smart. They just make jumpy decisions without considering the long term or realistic short term games.

So you would have traded WCJ, Porter and 4-6 Unprotected FRPs/swaps for Paul George?

You would have traded LaVine, WCJ, White and 4-6 Unprotected FRPs/swaps for AD who leaves in a year?

I don't get all the Hawks love in comparison to the Bulls. They both have a ton of young talent with no certainty how any of it will work out.

White
LaVine
Porter
Lauri
WCJ

vs

Young
Huerter
Reddish
Hunter
Collins

Why is one better than the other?

[panthermark]

The problem with patience are a few things:

1. It is not the fans who have been impatient to blow it up, it's been the front office. Then the fans jump on the bandwagon of blowing it up. Look at how they blew the Butler teams without proper additions. This organization is the one which keeps going back to emptying the roster for cap-space driven free agency recruitment. The side effect is ...when you don't get the superstars, that emptied out team takes a long time to get back to even mediocre levels.

This is what I am scared for 2021 again. They will sell somebody like Porter or a decent player for cheap because they are after Giannis and cap-space. If they fail, the talent now will be usually inferior or average replacements who cost more.

2. The MJ era type teams cannot be built nowadays. MJ grew up for 7 years and remained healthy for a long, long time. The free agency/trade methodology was different. You need patience but not much that patience. You can build good teams faster now because of more information.

3. Patience is great but the ability to smartly sell at the right time is important. As others have mentioned..Noah, Deng, Niko all could have been traded for great pieces if they were proactive. The same with Dunn, in a sense. And, honestly, I feel the same with Lauri if he doesn't develop play making skills.

The most important thing is to accumulate future picks and other team's picks. That's why the Bulls team can't make trades because they never have assets for available stars and that is because they never trade guys like Noah at the right time. The Clippers got George because they had accumulated picks. Teams like Dallas are always ready to throw away picks because they don't rely on the draft as much as others.

Every time there is a star traded, we hear the same old story that the Bulls don't have the assets.

Random comments:
- I agree that Chicago needs some patience. IMO, their ever chasing for flexibility and letting players go is really just a way to keep their payroll down.
- I agree that they need to sell at the right time. This is part of my comment about making smart moves over time to build.
- The Bulls really didn't have assets. That 2012-2016 period killed them. The cupboard was so bare that if they made a superstar trade, they would have nothing left. Hopefully that's almost over.

CF the cupboard being bare isn't a problem. The Bulls don't trade picks. I don't think GarPax have ever owed a 1st round pick. They certainly have never traded for a star. Nor signed one.

I can't see them going out there and offering 4-5 1sts for PG or AD like the LA teams did. I can't see a guy saying I want to come and play for the brain trust of GarPax and Boylen.

So what happens from here? Mediocrity. We're in a rush to make the 8th seed. While we sucked, we never took on bad deals to get picks. Instead we brought in vets to make mediocrity happen quickly. Rebuilding teams don't take on Porter, Young and Tomas.

Atlanta for example has a much better future. They're loaded with recent draft picks, a couple of additional picks and will have cap space the next couple of years.

IMHO these guys have no long term plan or vision. For a FO that has been in place as one of the longest tenure groups, I don't feel they're equipped to manage anymore. The game has passed them by. Nothing about the Bulls seems smart. They just make jumpy decisions without considering the long term or realistic short term games.

We might have traded a future first to draft Deng (can't remember), but this is about it.

I agree, it seems like we are now in a "try to quickly get to mediocre" in order to fool a top FA into signing with us in two years. It is absolutely transparent, and utterly pathetic...mostly because of this FO.

It seems like when someone would think of this franchise, they would think MJ, Pip, huge market, 6 banners, a couple of MVP's...

But our rep is more like:
No corn rows rule
No headbands rule
Two "full boat FA's"....only to land Mercer
"Players don't win championships, organizations do"
Uncle Jerry and his favorite player Ca$h Con$ideration$
Outdated GarPax and "The Bulls way"
MJ no where to be found with this franchise.
Phil no where to be found with this franchise.
The messy Rose situation and the failure to build around him.
The messy Butler situation and the failure to build around him. (Rondo and an aged out Wade?)
The turn style of Iowa State coaches with no NBA experience, and defense only burn out style coaches.
Chokegate
Pax only has 3 +50 win seasons in his (now longest NBA) tenure....and those were because of Rose.

Why would any top FA come to this franchise with the ownership and FO we have?

[Axolotl]

Why would any top FA come to this franchise with the ownership and FO we have?

To get a lot of money and to win, I'd assume.

[cjbulls]

Random comments:
- I agree that Chicago needs some patience. IMO, their ever chasing for flexibility and letting players go is really just a way to keep their payroll down.
- I agree that they need to sell at the right time. This is part of my comment about making smart moves over time to build.
- The Bulls really didn't have assets. That 2012-2016 period killed them. The cupboard was so bare that if they made a superstar trade, they would have nothing left. Hopefully that's almost over.

CF the cupboard being bare isn't a problem. The Bulls don't trade picks. I don't think GarPax have ever owed a 1st round pick. They certainly have never traded for a star. Nor signed one.

I can't see them going out there and offering 4-5 1sts for PG or AD like the LA teams did. I can't see a guy saying I want to come and play for the brain trust of GarPax and Boylen.

So what happens from here? Mediocrity. We're in a rush to make the 8th seed. While we sucked, we never took on bad deals to get picks. Instead we brought in vets to make mediocrity happen quickly. Rebuilding teams don't take on Porter, Young and Tomas.

Atlanta for example has a much better future. They're loaded with recent draft picks, a couple of additional picks and will have cap space the next couple of years.

IMHO these guys have no long term plan or vision. For a FO that has been in place as one of the longest tenure groups, I don't feel they're equipped to manage anymore. The game has passed them by. Nothing about the Bulls seems smart. They just make jumpy decisions without considering the long term or realistic short term games.

We might have traded a future first to draft Deng (can't remember), but this is about it.

I agree, it seems like we are now in a "try to quickly get to mediocre" in order to fool a top FA into signing with us in two years. It is absolutely transparent, and utterly pathetic...mostly because of this FO.

It seems like when someone would think of this franchise, they would think MJ, Pip, huge market, 6 banners, a couple of MVP's...

But our rep is more like:
No corn rows rule
No headbands rule
Two "full boat FA's"....only to land Mercer
"Players don't win championships, organizations do"
Uncle Jerry and his favorite player Ca$h Con$ideration$
Outdated GarPax and "The Bulls way"
MJ no where to be found with this franchise.
Phil no where to be found with this franchise.
The messy Rose situation and the failure to build around him.
The messy Butler situation and the failure to build around him. (Rondo and an aged out Wade?)
The turn style of Iowa State coaches with no NBA experience, and defense only burn out style coaches.
Chokegate
Pax only has 3 +50 win seasons in his (now longest NBA) tenure....and those were because of Rose.

Why would any top FA come to this franchise with the ownership and FO we have?

I think there were only two times in the Pax era they moved a pick ahead of time.

The Bulls traded next year's FRP (top 3 protected) + Cash for Deng.

They also traded their FRP to get off Hinrich's contract and create double max room in the summer of 2010. This was only done a few weeks prior to the draft though.

[TheStig]

Random comments:
- I agree that Chicago needs some patience. IMO, their ever chasing for flexibility and letting players go is really just a way to keep their payroll down.
- I agree that they need to sell at the right time. This is part of my comment about making smart moves over time to build.
- The Bulls really didn't have assets. That 2012-2016 period killed them. The cupboard was so bare that if they made a superstar trade, they would have nothing left. Hopefully that's almost over.

CF the cupboard being bare isn't a problem. The Bulls don't trade picks. I don't think GarPax have ever owed a 1st round pick. They certainly have never traded for a star. Nor signed one.

I can't see them going out there and offering 4-5 1sts for PG or AD like the LA teams did. I can't see a guy saying I want to come and play for the brain trust of GarPax and Boylen.

So what happens from here? Mediocrity. We're in a rush to make the 8th seed. While we sucked, we never took on bad deals to get picks. Instead we brought in vets to make mediocrity happen quickly. Rebuilding teams don't take on Porter, Young and Tomas.

Atlanta for example has a much better future. They're loaded with recent draft picks, a couple of additional picks and will have cap space the next couple of years.

IMHO these guys have no long term plan or vision. For a FO that has been in place as one of the longest tenure groups, I don't feel they're equipped to manage anymore. The game has passed them by. Nothing about the Bulls seems smart. They just make jumpy decisions without considering the long term or realistic short term games.

So you would have traded WCJ, Porter and 4-6 Unprotected FRPs/swaps for Paul George?

You would have traded LaVine, WCJ, White and 4-6 Unprotected FRPs/swaps for AD who leaves in a year?

I don't get all the Hawks love in comparison to the Bulls. They both have a ton of young talent with no certainty how any of it will work out.

White
LaVine
Porter
Lauri
WCJ

vs

Young
Huerter
Reddish
Hunter
Collins

Why is one better than the other?

If you still had Jimmy, I would have done one of those deals.

The difference is that all of those guys are on rookie deals and they have max cap space the next 2 years. They can get additional picks for taking on bad deals and in year 2 go out and get someone. I also feel their roster is more modern. Everyone can shoot really well and has length (outside of young) and they have a dynamic play maker in Young. They will be better in the long run.

[TheStig]

Why would any top FA come to this franchise with the ownership and FO we have?

To get a lot of money and to win, I'd assume.

Win what? We can't even win the lottery.......

And they'll get maxed out anywhere. Money isn't the problem.

[Scalaboner]

Random comments:
- I agree that Chicago needs some patience. IMO, their ever chasing for flexibility and letting players go is really just a way to keep their payroll down.
- I agree that they need to sell at the right time. This is part of my comment about making smart moves over time to build.
- The Bulls really didn't have assets. That 2012-2016 period killed them. The cupboard was so bare that if they made a superstar trade, they would have nothing left. Hopefully that's almost over.

CF the cupboard being bare isn't a problem. The Bulls don't trade picks. I don't think GarPax have ever owed a 1st round pick. They certainly have never traded for a star. Nor signed one.

I can't see them going out there and offering 4-5 1sts for PG or AD like the LA teams did. I can't see a guy saying I want to come and play for the brain trust of GarPax and Boylen.

So what happens from here? Mediocrity. We're in a rush to make the 8th seed. While we sucked, we never took on bad deals to get picks. Instead we brought in vets to make mediocrity happen quickly. Rebuilding teams don't take on Porter, Young and Tomas.

Atlanta for example has a much better future. They're loaded with recent draft picks, a couple of additional picks and will have cap space the next couple of years.

IMHO these guys have no long term plan or vision. For a FO that has been in place as one of the longest tenure groups, I don't feel they're equipped to manage anymore. The game has passed them by. Nothing about the Bulls seems smart. They just make jumpy decisions without considering the long term or realistic short term games.

So you would have traded WCJ, Porter and 4-6 Unprotected FRPs/swaps for Paul George?

You would have traded LaVine, WCJ, White and 4-6 Unprotected FRPs/swaps for AD who leaves in a year?

I don't get all the Hawks love in comparison to the Bulls. They both have a ton of young talent with no certainty how any of it will work out.

White
LaVine
Porter
Lauri
WCJ

vs

Young
Huerter
Reddish
Hunter
Collins

Why is one better than the other?

I think this love affair with the Hawks stems from people’s love or Trae Young and/or the whole “grass is always greener” perspective. Hunter and Reddish have never played in an NBA game. I would almost guarantee you if Bulls offered Lauri for Hunter straight up the Hawks would take it in a heartbeat. With our players, minus White (and maybe WCJ) we know what we have at a minimum. For Lauri last years 19-9 stat is his floor. Which isn’t bad for a PF. LaVine is always going to be a 20+ppg scorer at minimum. I would not take the Hawks over the Bulls in terms of future outlook. Yes, GarPax suck and I would prefer they clean house because they couldn’t put the final piece (SG) around the Rose teams and couldn’t build a good team around Jimmy, though now Jimmy has shown he isn’t and never will be a number one option on a team. But the Bulls outlook is quite positive, especially considering we are two seasons removed from the playoffs, in which we were a healthy Rondo away from the second round with a garbage coach in Hoiberg. Which of these rebuilding teams that people like to give examples of how to properly rebuild should we follow? Last I saw the poster child was the 76ers and they had many years of terrible basketball just to build a team that is now built around an injury prone Embiid and Simmons who can’t shoot.

[dice]

We haven't seen all the specifics, but it seems that the year 3 for Sato, Thad and Arci are team options or partially guaranteed. I strongly suspect the Bulls will have more than a max to offer in 2021.

At the end of the day though, the Bulls aren't going to build like LA or Miami. Players don't want to be in Chicago. If they are going to win, its going to be like Toronto where they get mediocre and then slowly improve by making lots of small beneficial transactions.

Nets, Jazz, Warriors, Raptors, Bucks, Nuggets, Blazers, etc. All the current top teams (minus the la teams), that have won/been successful and not have a handful of high end lottery players. They all slowly built and added pieces when they saw fit.

Staying in the top of the lotto constantly isnt a recipe for success. Having a competent front office is in terms of drafting, making good trades, and valuable free agent signings. It would be a success if the Bulls incrementally improved as follows.

2019-20: 42 win 8 seed 1st round exit sweep
20-21: 45 seed 6-7 seed 1st round exit in 6-7 games
21-22: 52 wins 3-4 seed 2nd round exit 6-7 games
22-23: 56 wins 2-3 seed contender to make the finals.

Look at the Blazers. People have wanted them to blow up and trade lillard and/or mccollum for the last 2-3 years minimum. Then they broke through and made a WCFs for the first time since 2000.

People wanted the raptors to blow up since losing to the cavs in 6 games in 2016, then again getting swept in round 2 in 2017, and then again getting swept in round 2 in 2018. Instead, they kept adding pieces, drafting well, made an amazing trade, and then won the finals.

People thought the Jazz should blow up after Hayward walked. Instead they kept building and making smart signings and trades. Now they are one of the top teams in the west.

People, myself included, need to learn to be patient. Let this team build together the next 2-3 years and just make continuous improvements through the draft and trades and smart signings and the bulls will be alright.

I'm old unfortunately. The best thing about the dynasty run was the time before it. So many moves, changes, etc. with the team slowly getting better. They didn't just assemble like the Heatles. It took them years, with lots of embarrassments before they won. Their first title was in MJ's 7th year and they were actually the underdogs against the veteran Lakers. Just about no one thought the Bulls were about to go on a dynasty level run in 1990.

A lot of people would have blown the dynasty Bulls up before they even won anything. Some of the narratives at the time:
- MJ is a chucker and SG's don't win titles
- MJ doesn't play defense
- Pippen is soft
- No PG
- No post player

Obviously I'm not comparing the current Bulls to the 80's MJ Bulls but I am pointing out that the complete lack of patience is actually detrimental to the team.

pretty sure the narrative was never than MJ doesn't play defense. he was first team all-nba defense in his 3rd full season. and had impressive steal and block numbers prior to that

it WAS the narrative that he was a ball hog and not a winner

[Axolotl]

Why would any top FA come to this franchise with the ownership and FO we have?

To get a lot of money and to win, I'd assume.

Win what? We can't even win the lottery.......

And they'll get maxed out anywhere. Money isn't the problem.

The Bulls can't win now. But if they could, the FO wouldn't be an obstacle.

And you are right about the money - which means the Bulls are already halfway there!

[Mech Engineer]

Random comments:
- I agree that Chicago needs some patience. IMO, their ever chasing for flexibility and letting players go is really just a way to keep their payroll down.
- I agree that they need to sell at the right time. This is part of my comment about making smart moves over time to build.
- The Bulls really didn't have assets. That 2012-2016 period killed them. The cupboard was so bare that if they made a superstar trade, they would have nothing left. Hopefully that's almost over.

CF the cupboard being bare isn't a problem. The Bulls don't trade picks. I don't think GarPax have ever owed a 1st round pick. They certainly have never traded for a star. Nor signed one.

I can't see them going out there and offering 4-5 1sts for PG or AD like the LA teams did. I can't see a guy saying I want to come and play for the brain trust of GarPax and Boylen.

So what happens from here? Mediocrity. We're in a rush to make the 8th seed. While we sucked, we never took on bad deals to get picks. Instead we brought in vets to make mediocrity happen quickly. Rebuilding teams don't take on Porter, Young and Tomas.

Atlanta for example has a much better future. They're loaded with recent draft picks, a couple of additional picks and will have cap space the next couple of years.

IMHO these guys have no long term plan or vision. For a FO that has been in place as one of the longest tenure groups, I don't feel they're equipped to manage anymore. The game has passed them by. Nothing about the Bulls seems smart. They just make jumpy decisions without considering the long term or realistic short term games.

So you would have traded WCJ, Porter and 4-6 Unprotected FRPs/swaps for Paul George?

You would have traded LaVine, WCJ, White and 4-6 Unprotected FRPs/swaps for AD who leaves in a year?

I don't get all the Hawks love in comparison to the Bulls. They both have a ton of young talent with no certainty how any of it will work out.

White
LaVine
Porter
Lauri
WCJ

vs

Young
Huerter
Reddish
Hunter
Collins

Why is one better than the other?

Atlanta did not have a head start like the Bulls. The Bulls literally got 3 lottery picks for Butler....major advantage. They messed up the rebuild by not taking on bad contracts and collecting more picks and not tanking properly for the last few years.

[HomoSapien]

"let's just be decent and figure it out later" is a more compelling strategy than any other one i could imagine us taking this summer.

But isn't that exactly what we've always done, except we've always been unable to figure it out? The Gordon teams never were able to fill that hole at PF or find a true number one option, the Rose teams never properly filled that hole at SG or found that second creator, and Jimmy Butler was never surrounded by a team he could grow with.

What's going to be different this time?

You mentioned Otto Porter Jr. but to me he seems like the most John Paxson player ever. A good enough, but not great enough player that will probably end up being here for many years.

I'm disheartened by our draft. I think Carter and White are going to be good role players, but not stars. We tanked for role players, while missing out on a significant amount of potential franchise players. We didn't or were unable to trade up in either draft, in part because have very few tradeable assets outside of Lauri, LaVine, and Wendell. We shot ourselves in the foot by adding a proven scorer to our tanking roster in Kilpatrick and then didn't do ourselves any favors by publicly killing Kris Dunn's trade value.

So that said, a lot is going to depend on Zach and Lauri's development. I like both a lot, but I'm skeptical in them developing into lead your team to the championship level players. Sure there could be a big trade out there, but what evidence is there that we'll pull it off? We were unable to get real value for Gordon, Deng, Hinrich, Noah, etc. I'd be shocked if we suddenly are able to so with the same FO.

Porter, Young, Sato, and White are all solid additions. But they're all fairly average players. It just feels like we're building a mediocre team without having it anchored by a superstar.

[TheStig]

CF the cupboard being bare isn't a problem. The Bulls don't trade picks. I don't think GarPax have ever owed a 1st round pick. They certainly have never traded for a star. Nor signed one.

I can't see them going out there and offering 4-5 1sts for PG or AD like the LA teams did. I can't see a guy saying I want to come and play for the brain trust of GarPax and Boylen.

So what happens from here? Mediocrity. We're in a rush to make the 8th seed. While we sucked, we never took on bad deals to get picks. Instead we brought in vets to make mediocrity happen quickly. Rebuilding teams don't take on Porter, Young and Tomas.

Atlanta for example has a much better future. They're loaded with recent draft picks, a couple of additional picks and will have cap space the next couple of years.

IMHO these guys have no long term plan or vision. For a FO that has been in place as one of the longest tenure groups, I don't feel they're equipped to manage anymore. The game has passed them by. Nothing about the Bulls seems smart. They just make jumpy decisions without considering the long term or realistic short term games.

So you would have traded WCJ, Porter and 4-6 Unprotected FRPs/swaps for Paul George?

You would have traded LaVine, WCJ, White and 4-6 Unprotected FRPs/swaps for AD who leaves in a year?

I don't get all the Hawks love in comparison to the Bulls. They both have a ton of young talent with no certainty how any of it will work out.

White
LaVine
Porter
Lauri
WCJ

vs

Young
Huerter
Reddish
Hunter
Collins

Why is one better than the other?

I think this love affair with the Hawks stems from people’s love or Trae Young and/or the whole “grass is always greener” perspective. Hunter and Reddish have never played in an NBA game. I would almost guarantee you if Bulls offered Lauri for Hunter straight up the Hawks would take it in a heartbeat. With our players, minus White (and maybe WCJ) we know what we have at a minimum. For Lauri last years 19-9 stat is his floor. Which isn’t bad for a PF. LaVine is always going to be a 20+ppg scorer at minimum. I would not take the Hawks over the Bulls in terms of future outlook. Yes, GarPax suck and I would prefer they clean house because they couldn’t put the final piece (SG) around the Rose teams and couldn’t build a good team around Jimmy, though now Jimmy has shown he isn’t and never will be a number one option on a team. But the Bulls outlook is quite positive, especially considering we are two seasons removed from the playoffs, in which we were a healthy Rondo away from the second round with a garbage coach in Hoiberg. Which of these rebuilding teams that people like to give examples of how to properly rebuild should we follow? Last I saw the poster child was the 76ers and they had many years of terrible basketball just to build a team that is now built around an injury prone Embiid and Simmons who can’t shoot.

That's great an all but that wonderful core won 22 games for the Bulls last year. Atlanta won 7 more games while adding in 2 lotto picks. And most of their guys are younger, Huerter and Young were first year players and Reddish and Hunter are rookies.

Meanwhile Zach is a 5th year guy on a non rookie deal and Porter a 6th year guy on a big deal. You're not comparing apples to apples. They also have additional picks and cap space to be able to facilitate deals. I would easily trade orgs.

[cjbulls]

CF the cupboard being bare isn't a problem. The Bulls don't trade picks. I don't think GarPax have ever owed a 1st round pick. They certainly have never traded for a star. Nor signed one.

I can't see them going out there and offering 4-5 1sts for PG or AD like the LA teams did. I can't see a guy saying I want to come and play for the brain trust of GarPax and Boylen.

So what happens from here? Mediocrity. We're in a rush to make the 8th seed. While we sucked, we never took on bad deals to get picks. Instead we brought in vets to make mediocrity happen quickly. Rebuilding teams don't take on Porter, Young and Tomas.

Atlanta for example has a much better future. They're loaded with recent draft picks, a couple of additional picks and will have cap space the next couple of years.

IMHO these guys have no long term plan or vision. For a FO that has been in place as one of the longest tenure groups, I don't feel they're equipped to manage anymore. The game has passed them by. Nothing about the Bulls seems smart. They just make jumpy decisions without considering the long term or realistic short term games.

So you would have traded WCJ, Porter and 4-6 Unprotected FRPs/swaps for Paul George?

You would have traded LaVine, WCJ, White and 4-6 Unprotected FRPs/swaps for AD who leaves in a year?

I don't get all the Hawks love in comparison to the Bulls. They both have a ton of young talent with no certainty how any of it will work out.

White
LaVine
Porter
Lauri
WCJ

vs

Young
Huerter
Reddish
Hunter
Collins

Why is one better than the other?

If you still had Jimmy, I would have done one of those deals.

The difference is that all of those guys are on rookie deals and they have max cap space the next 2 years. They can get additional picks for taking on bad deals and in year 2 go out and get someone. I also feel their roster is more modern. Everyone can shoot really well and has length (outside of young) and they have a dynamic play maker in Young. They will be better in the long run.

But you can't have Jimmy Butler and WCJ or White so you can't make those deals.

Huerter, Reddish and Hunter are completely unproven (I would say only White is unproven on the Bulls but reasonable could include WCJ there). So yes, they have more cap flexibility but they also have more uncertainty. You have to pay Porter and LaVine but you know what you are getting instead of projecting, and there is a lot of projecting for Huerter, Reddish and Hunter.

The cap space is also a bit of a red herring. If those guys don't develop, the cap space will mean nothing because people won't sign there. And if they are good, the cap space will need to be reserved for them. Not to mention, it will be hard to get good FAs when all of them are locked into starting roles (probably one of the reasons Julius Randle isn't on the Bulls right now).