Must read - How the Nets pulled it off

[panthermark]

The attempt to stretch this into a condemnation of how the Bulls do business is preposterous. If we hired an Australian league football coach as a key leader of the training staff this board would go ape **** with ridicule.

Good for the Nets. But this all comes down to KD and Kyrie wanted the NY market (the article even admits this as the threshold issue!) and chose the Nets over the Knicks because, unlike the Knicks, the Nets were trending in the right direction and their owner isn’t the laughing stock of American pro sports.

“Player development became a priority.” How revolutionary. Maybe now NBA teams will finally start trying to develop their players!

If by "we" you mean GARPAX, then you missed the point. You are a pretty sharp guy, so I know you know better than that.

The attempt to simplify this into "they hired an Australian league football coach as a key leader of the training staff" is preposterous.

It wasn’t a simplification. It was an illustration. This article doesn’t provide a road map to anything scepter that if you build a brand new arena in Brooklyn and are competent, free agents will be interested.

The "competent" part was the FO....and they were more than competent. (It is what separates them from the Knicks).
Maybe we should try being more than barely average on our best days?

---------------------
I understand that NY and LA can have a leg up....but this is still Chicago. If people think Chicago is so far behind NY and LA...then why are we banking on free agency?

[DuckIII]

Lets provide a contrast. The Lakers are a complete mess and model of dysfunction, and due to their market they landed LeBron, AD and were a whisker away from Kawhi.

Again, great job by the Nets. But don’t overthink it.

[keloms]

You've got an owner with 70's & 80's business mindset and management and all successors that learned working under and with him so it's never going to change.

There is no legacy here, there is no championship environment or culture to live up to. The only two periods of success this organization had was landing two draft picks that worked out unbelievably great. Had it not been for lucking into them, this organization is no different than the Orlando Magic or Memphis Grizzlies.

Not to make it about the Bulls but looking at the Nets, what they have done is really amazing even if they never get beyond an ECF berth. It will be really interesting to compare their future with what Boston will do. Boston got all those picks and was the darling of everyone but not being opportunistic in selling those picks at the right time has caused them to not achieve their lofty goals.

The Nets have done a fabulous job and using those expiring contracts, player development to get a 6th seed without almost any top picks of their own is commendable. A good GM can use multiple tools but also do it well. The Bulls also hired that PhD lady in nutrition(Jenn Swann) and she failed miserably. It is the ability to not just pick players in a draft but the leadership/innovation/diligence in other areas which can also impact the team.

Assets are only good if they get used based on potential value because realized values, more often than not, are significantly less.

Brooklyn sold on potential, whereas the Bulls sell or use the asset after it's been realized on actual value because they overvalue things and that's what's going to happen with the C / B level core that everyone is hoping that is magically going to become something. By the time they make a move in a year or two, it's sink or swim with no room for error. By the end of summer 2021, either Lauri flops and they don't have to give him a big deal or they're capped out regardless of whether they land a star or not because all those rookie deals start ending and it's back on the treadmill drafting the 'rebuild 2025' plan.

Boston sold on potential with the Nets pick last year and look like they might have something with Tatum, but, everything else looks like it will essentially be watered down into very little because they fell into the trap too of hanging on way too long. They could've easily gotten Butler, PG, maybe even Kawhi, but, instead it's wasted mid-late firsts that they wont even have room for when it comes time.

[johnnyvann840]

From the SI link

Let’s stipulate: For the Nets to pull off this offseason heist, location mattered. For months, Durant had been linked with the Knicks. A successful, three-year partnership with Golden State that yielded three Finals trips and two titles was winding down, and there was belief around the league that Durant wanted something different. The Knicks could offer the 30-year-old an opportunity to be the face of—all boils aside—one of the NBA’s flagship franchises. Being in New York gave Durant the chance to take more of a hands-on role with Thirty Five Ventures, the Manhattan-based business and entertainment enterprise Durant cofounded with his manager, Rich Kleiman. Irving, raised on New Jersey blacktops and coming off a chaotic two-season run in Boston, was keenly interested in playing closer to his roots.

Marks now admits that it had long been his hope that the Nets would be positioned to be players in one of the most ravenously anticipated free-agent classes in NBA history. “We planned a couple years out that we could have an opportunity here,” he says. “I think when you have a window or you have an opportunity to swing for it and take a chance, take a challenge, and you can do it with the right people, that’s when you have to do it.”

He understood the undeniable appeal of the City, but the organization had to have some allure as well. Tanking was off the table—and not just because the Nets didn’t own their first-round picks. In 2017, Marks made a deal with the Lakers and absorbed center Timofey Mozgov’s cumbersome contract to acquire guard D’Angelo Russell, an immature former No. 2 pick who would become the Nets’ first All-Star since 2014. (Russell was part of last week’s sign-and-trade that brought Durant to Brooklyn.) He also took on forward Andrew Nicholson’s deal with the Wizards in exchange for the first-round pick that became Jarrett Allen, the team’s springy center.

Player development became a priority. In April 2016, Marks hired Kenny Atkinson, a Hawks assistant with an earned reputation as one of the NBA’s top developmental coaches. Marks invested in the analytics department. He fleshed out the sports-performance team, thinking outside the box: Zach Weatherford, the director of player performance, came from U.S. Naval Special Warfare Command, where he trained SEALs; Dan Meehan, the team’s strength-and-conditioning coach, held the same title with an Australian rules football team in Melbourne.

“It was the most thorough training staff I’ve ever been a part of,” says Jared Dudley, who spent last season with the Nets, his sixth NBA team. Every muscle is tested regularly. Catapult, a GPS technology used to track player movements, helps with load management. “They had so many different ideas,” says DeMarre Carroll, a seven-team vet who played the past two seasons in Brooklyn. “Sometimes in the NBA you get caught up with the traditional stuff.”

Culture took on new importance. In two seasons as a player in San Antonio, Marks was a fringe contributor. But he was treated as well as Tim Duncan. The Spurs’ family atmosphere resonated with Marks. How they treated his wife, Jennifer. How they treated his kids. He was determined to bring that to Brooklyn. So the wives of incoming players now receive flowers. Kids get boxes of Nets gear. After Dudley signed with the Lakers last week, his wife received a card, thanking her for being part of the organization. Says Dudley, “The way they treated my family—no organization has come close.”

Still, results matter, and that feel-good vibe was threatened last fall, during an eight-game losing streak. Reports about Atkinson’s job security filtered into the locker room. Guard Caris LeVert, a blooming star, was lost until midseason with an ankle injury. Players wondered: With the Nets finally in control of their draft pick, would they tank the season away? Atkinson called three of the team’s veterans—Dudley, Carroll and Ed Davis—into a meeting. His message to them: Ownership called. There would be no tanking. Their message to him: Don’t sacrifice wins for the sake of development. Play the best players. Atkinson agreed. A players-only film session followed. Laziness was called out. Sloppiness. Bad body language. Frustrations were aired. “That film session,” says Dudley, “was the best thing for us.” They followed up the meeting with seven straight wins and surged into the playoffs as the No. 6 seed.

That is AMAZING stuff. Can't even imagine this organization doing anything close to this. Man, we need some fresh blood in this FO so badly.

[mschmidt64]

The players have too much control. Too much allowed collusion.

Hope it changes in the next CBA.

[Mech Engineer]

You've got an owner with 70's & 80's business mindset and management and all successors that learned working under and with him so it's never going to change.

There is no legacy here, there is no championship environment or culture to live up to. The only two periods of success this organization had was landing two draft picks that worked out unbelievably great. Had it not been for lucking into them, this organization is no different than the Orlando Magic or Memphis Grizzlies.

Not to make it about the Bulls but looking at the Nets, what they have done is really amazing even if they never get beyond an ECF berth. It will be really interesting to compare their future with what Boston will do. Boston got all those picks and was the darling of everyone but not being opportunistic in selling those picks at the right time has caused them to not achieve their lofty goals.

The Nets have done a fabulous job and using those expiring contracts, player development to get a 6th seed without almost any top picks of their own is commendable. A good GM can use multiple tools but also do it well. The Bulls also hired that PhD lady in nutrition(Jenn Swann) and she failed miserably. It is the ability to not just pick players in a draft but the leadership/innovation/diligence in other areas which can also impact the team.

Assets are only good if they get used based on potential value because realized values, more often than not, are significantly less.

Brooklyn sold on potential, whereas when the Bulls sell or use the asset after it's been realized on actual value because they overvalue things and that's what's going to happen with the C / B level core that everyone is hoping that is magically going to become something. By the time they make a move in a year or two, it's sink or swim with no room for error. By the end of summer 2021, either Lauri flops and they don't have to give him a big deal or they're capped out regardless of whether they land a star or not because all those rookie deals start ending and it's back to being on a capped out on the treadmill drafting the 'rebuild 2025' plan.

Boston sold on potential with the Nets pick last year and look like they might have something with Tatum, but, everything else looks like it will essentially be watered down into very little because they fell into the trap too of hanging on way too long. They could've easily gotten Butler, PG, maybe even Kawhi, but, instead it's wasted mid-late firsts that they wont even have room for when it comes time.

Yeah, the Bulls did the same with the Charlotte pick ....they thought it will turn into a top 5 pick and kept it. But, if they had sold the pick to another GM who would have fallen for the possibility of it being a top 5 pick, they could have got a great return. They just waited too long and not to mention, they eventually wasted that pick to trade-up for McDermott.

Honestly, I fear the same for Lauri. He has been injured a lot and a 3 pt shooting PF who is not great on defense is pretty common nowadays. But, Lauri has that extra sweet stroke of the 3 pt shot for a PF/big that has held up his value a little more. But, if he doesn't improve, his value will be a lot, lot less. I hope I am wrong but that's a high possibility. Look at what happened to Niko.

And, as you wrote, it is the same with Boston. Those assets lost value in perception. It is like selling a stock. If you wait for it to reach its peak, you probably will never time it. You should have some analysis when it is a lot more than what you bought for and sell it to get great value.

[keloms]

The players have too much control. Too much allowed collusion.

Hope it changes in the next CBA.

Therein lies another problem. Durant agreed to join without even have to taking a meeting knowing they would shape the organization around him. Players on the Bulls, however, are treated like they're back in school or a strict workforce needing to get team permission for headbands and hairstyles.

[panthermark]

Lets provide a contrast. The Lakers are a complete mess and model of dysfunction, and due to their market they landed LeBron, AD and were a whisker away from Kawhi.

Again, great job by the Nets. But don’t overthink it.

Lakers are the Lakers.....

But it isn't a matter of overthinking it, it is actually thinking about it.


If Chicago is so outshined by LA and NY...why are we banking on free agency?
or
If we think that we may not be LA or NY, but we are still one of the upper tier destination cities....would it not be prudent to find a way to differentiate ourselves? Something more than a .500 team and an outdated FO? It would be nice if we could say that we may not be NY or LA, but we are still Chicago, and we have a first class, state of the art, player focused organization from top to bottom.

Gotta pick a lane.

[Mech Engineer]

The players have too much control. Too much allowed collusion.

Hope it changes in the next CBA.

Is it ok for owners to collude and limit salaries/put caps on salaries or limit team changing for players because they always need to make millions in profit. The players are already treated like commodities.

I hope they loosen the rules more. It should be like a general marketplace for jobs. The owners have had too much power and basically lived of luck when they drafted a superstar and limited him to not changing teams. Let the owner and GMs work to attract the best talent and not rely on draft luck which they get usually by sucking as an organization.

[johnnyvann840]

The Bulls version....



All you needed was a "note from Jenn" and you could get out of practice or not have to do the "hard drills". lol. That worked out really well.

[Mech Engineer]

The Bulls version....



All you needed was a "note from Jenn" and you could get out of practice or not have to do the "hard drills". lol. That worked out really well.

There was an aspect of her hiring in which they wanted to hinder how Thibs conducted his practices. I don't know but I am guessing Thibs was never on-board with her hire and it directly impacted him. It is that control/power which is the problem whether it is Thibs or MJ or another superstar/coach putting in their imprint on the organization.

[Bandit King]

Jenn Swanson was a too advanced for the NBA.

[ImSlower]

I really liked the portions about treating everyone and their families like it was an honor to have them be with the organization. Obviously, the NBA is a unique work environment, but at its core, it's a workplace with bosses, stress, and specific drama, and we all have probably had jobs we enjoyed simply due to positive environment, despite maybe less money etc.

At least for me, feeling like i was part if the family was the best part of my best jobs, even if I made bettee money before or after.

[johnnyvann840]

Jenn Swanson was a too advanced for the NBA.

LOL.. yeah, Chicago Bulls FO (and medical and training staff- not to mention our analytics dept.)... only problem is they are just too advanced and so far ahead of their time. yeah, that's it.

[johnnyvann840]

“It was the most thorough training staff I’ve ever been a part of,” says Jared Dudley, who spent last season with the Nets, his sixth NBA team. Every muscle is tested regularly. Catapult, a GPS technology used to track player movements, helps with load management. “They had so many different ideas,” says DeMarre Carroll, a seven-team vet who played the past two seasons in Brooklyn. “Sometimes in the NBA you get caught up with the traditional stuff.”

I think this says a lot right here. Coming from a respected veteran like Dudley, who spent a lot of time in Phoenix, with the heralded Suns staff.

It's interesting, I posted in another thread that yesterday that during the broadcast from Vegas, Chauncey and Paul Pierce were talking about the importance of the medical and training staffs of teams and that many players will actually go to a team just because of the training personnel these days. That they are almost like another player on the roster. We all know that this is not something the Bulls exactly have an advantage with. Quite the contrary when respected players like Deng and Noah take parting shots at the Bulls staff on their way out. Just saying, it's not helping us. At all. Combined with the popularity among players of Gar Forman and our head coach, that's 3 strikes against the franchise.

[weneeda2guard]

You have to have a front office that can be power players. You look at the nets situation it was literally one of the worst ever and now they are contenders. Even what took place in Toronto. John paxson is just not on that level. We are forced to have to make excuses for mediocrity to maintain a level of sanity. Its damn near a church around here how we have to rely on faith and hope for the future.

The Nets are contenders? They stand a solid chance to be worse than last year and then in 2020-21 they MIGHT be contenders, or just as easily be a 6th seed.

Kyrie is often injured and is a poor leader and has never really done much of note without Lebron. Durant was amazing but has suffered a consistently career altering injury and is aging. I think he might be an all star again perhaps, but his days as a superstar are likely over IMO.

I'm not saying these were not good moves by the Nets or that they should have done differently. I'm just saying there's no reason to expect them to be an excellent team in my opinion.

Yes they are contenders. I'm not in the business of down playing the good of others to make my situation feel better. Once Durant gets back them and about 6 other teams have a solid shot to win a title. The nets are def among that group. I know one thing, 99% of fans would rather be in the nets position than ours.

[dougthonus]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2844892-kevin-durants-injury-timeline-free-agent-process-discussed-by-nets-sean-marks

KD already knew he was going to the Nets. But the backstory on how the Nets got there is amazing. They brought in a new GM and they changed EVERYTHING.

Literally, about the only thing he said in that was "we thought we should add cap space in two years", but even then, they didn't really do that fully two years ago as they dumped salary at the deadline this year to open up the 2nd max slot.

If only we had a front office visionary enough to implement a similar strategy. Oh wait...

[dougthonus]

We fool ourselves into thinking...well...if we can just get to "average", top FA's will come here.

That is literally what the Nets just did from a basketball perspective.

[HomoSapien]

Culture took on new importance. In two seasons as a player in San Antonio, Marks was a fringe contributor. But he was treated as well as Tim Duncan. The Spurs’ family atmosphere resonated with Marks. How they treated his wife, Jennifer. How they treated his kids. He was determined to bring that to Brooklyn. So the wives of incoming players now receive flowers. Kids get boxes of Nets gear. After Dudley signed with the Lakers last week, his wife received a card, thanking her for being part of the organization. Says Dudley, “The way they treated my family—no organization has come close."

Just such a smart and simple thing to do. Edit -- In my own career, my absolute favorite jobs are the ones that have had a family environment. It just makes you more willing to put more into the job and also help that relationship out with a favor in the future.

[HomoSapien]

We fool ourselves into thinking...well...if we can just get to "average", top FA's will come here.

That is literally what the Nets just did from a basketball perspective.

I think that's simplifying things a bit. There's just an excitement about the Nets. For whatever reason, they are perceived as an incredibly smart organization that just does things right. The Bulls have fielded some really good teams but that respect for this organization has been absent for a long time.