Jim Boylen mentions Dunn as starting point guard

[League Circles]

So, Kris Dunn is our starting point guard. Not good. They never got to play enough with WCJ to have any data, but the Dunn, Lavine, Otto and Lauri 4 man combo was -6.7 per 100 last season. When the four of them played with Lopez they were -4.5 per 100 and with Dunn, Lavine, Lauri and WCJ with Hutch they were -27.4 per 100.

When Otto Porter came aboard when on the floor the Bulls as a team were actually positive in point differential. Except Dunn was one of the only Bulls players to be a net negative with Otto (-4.6 per100).

I would have made Satoransky the starter.

Honestly it could also just be Boylen being Boylen and not wanting to throw one of his players under the bus. Especially when he's gathered all of these guys out there for team building.

The more I think about it, this is likely the reason why Boylen said what he said. The Bulls didn't pay Staoransky 10 mil and also draft a PG to still just give the PG position to Dunn.

Boylen doesn't want to throw his player under the bus. That's the FO's job.

Is 10 mil supposed to be a large contract? We KNOW they're OK with paying Young 13 mil to come off the bench, mostly at one position probably IMO. Why would it be against expectations for Tomas to come off the bench particularly at 10 mil when he can play 2-3 positions and we have dreadful wing depth?

IMO they're not giving Dunn anything. He's the starter until someone takes his job. It's not like Tomas will be hurting for minutes. White needs to prove he deserves either Arci or Dunn's minutes. Just like Gafford needs to prove he deserves some of Felicio, Kornet or Young's minutes before he gets them penciled in.

[RedBulls23]

Honestly it could also just be Boylen being Boylen and not wanting to throw one of his players under the bus. Especially when he's gathered all of these guys out there for team building.

The more I think about it, this is likely the reason why Boylen said what he said. The Bulls didn't pay Staoransky 10 mil and also draft a PG to still just give the PG position to Dunn.

Boylen doesn't want to throw his player under the bus. That's the FO's job.

Is 10 mil supposed to be a large contract? We KNOW they're OK with paying Young 13 mil to come off the bench, mostly at one position probably IMO. Why would it be against expectations for Tomas to come off the bench particularly at 10 mil when he can play 2-3 positions and we have dreadful wing depth?

IMO they're not giving Dunn anything. He's the starter until someone takes his job. It's not like Tomas will be hurting for minutes. White needs to prove he deserves either Arci or Dunn's minutes. Just like Gafford needs to prove he deserves some of Felicio, Kornet or Young's minutes before he gets them penciled in.

The starting PG spot isn't anyone's yet, and it certainly isn't Dunn's to lose (hell he almost lost it to Arci last season and we all agree that he's 3rd PG on any playoff team). My point was they didn't add these pieces to just declare Dunn the starter in July.

This was just Boylen giving coach speak. No one is locked into the starting PG position as of yet.

[League Circles]

The more I think about it, this is likely the reason why Boylen said what he said. The Bulls didn't pay Staoransky 10 mil and also draft a PG to still just give the PG position to Dunn.

Boylen doesn't want to throw his player under the bus. That's the FO's job.

Is 10 mil supposed to be a large contract? We KNOW they're OK with paying Young 13 mil to come off the bench, mostly at one position probably IMO. Why would it be against expectations for Tomas to come off the bench particularly at 10 mil when he can play 2-3 positions and we have dreadful wing depth?

IMO they're not giving Dunn anything. He's the starter until someone takes his job. It's not like Tomas will be hurting for minutes. White needs to prove he deserves either Arci or Dunn's minutes. Just like Gafford needs to prove he deserves some of Felicio, Kornet or Young's minutes before he gets them penciled in.

The starting PG spot isn't anyone's yet, and it certainly isn't Dunn's to lose (hell he almost lost it to Arci last season and we all agree that he's 3rd PG on any playoff team). My point was they didn't add these pieces to just declare Dunn the starter in July.

This was just Boylen giving coach speak. No one is locked into the starting PG position as of yet.

I guess it's just a matter of semantics. Nowhere did I hear Boylen suggest that anyone is locked into anything for any period of time. Dunn is the starter right now IMO. He'll be the starter initially in preseason at least.

Yes Arci Almost took the role last year, but didn't. Are people suggesting he start the season or even the preseason?

White is not ready to hand anything to, Dunn is already ahead of Arci at least momentarily, and Sato is needed more elsewhere for the moment and will in no way struggle to get minutes.

Think of Dunn like a Keith Bogans starter for the moment.

It becomes **** up when a coach paints one position as "open competition" and the other four as "locked".

Experimenting really, really hurt us under Fred. Boylen clearly comes from more of a Thibbs mentality where changes are mostly a one way street. Once Dunn is demoted, that's probably it for him. So it makes sense to exhaust his chances now, and if the results are as bad as they've been, it will be an easier, smoother, and more decisive change to make, and it will be made as early as during preseason IMO.

What people are forgetting is that it's kind of unclear what the pecking order should be at PG. That will become MUCH more clear during training camp and preseason. Dunn starting serves several purposes, perhaps none more important than providing a low key way to evaluate Arci, White and Sato vs one another, to see who makes the most sense to replace Dunn with the starters in the very likely event that happens early on. You don't want to start being reactionary and shuffling in and out White, Arci and Sato, because no matter who is out there, the team probably isn't going to be playing all that great.

[League Circles]

Too many people are failing to see the appropriate gray area in how the Bulls feel about Dunn. Do they value him? It's not a yes or no thing. They value him enough to not swap him in a trade just for the sake of getting rid of him. But if they could trade him inyo cap space and sign a decent wing with what's cleared, they probably would. Do they "expect" Dunn to improve quickly enough yo establish himself as a long term piece? No. Do they think it's possible? Absolutely. They were high on the guy and he's only played like 96 games for us under ridiculous tanking circumstances.

People are underappreciating the possible downside of the other three and of injuries, and overappreciating the pros of banishing him now.

Under our unique circumstances, of the 4 candidates, Dunn deserves the very short term benefit of the doubt the most.

[MrSparkle]

People are reading too much into this.

Dunn has been the "starting" PG the past 2 seasons, so by virtue he holds that title until he's traded or beat out by Sato or Coby in camp- one of those 3 scenarios is very likely.

I don't think Jim is going to start Dunn for the sake of propping his value. I also don't really think he'll be starting in October.

[RedBulls23]

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[JohnnyKILLroy]

I’d rather start Felicio at PG.

Our brown Shrek is so cute.

[Evil_Headband]

They value him enough to not swap him in a trade just for the sake of getting rid of him.

This remains to be seen. I think it will end up being a dumping trade or perhaps even his release.

[bad knees]

Sounds like Boylen was channeling his inner Gar. This is exactly the same sort of obvious and ultimately useless lie that led to Gar’s reputation being destroyed and him having to “take a step back” from his role as a leader of the organization. I would have thought that Boylen would have learned from Gar’s experience. It does not bode well for Boylen or the Bulls that he did not.

We'll see. I think he will initially start.

It's confusing to me that so many people criticize this as a ridiculously ineffective and transparent attempt at bumping up trade value (which it would be if it was but it's not IMO). I can understand criticizing Dunn starting, but not concluding that the statement has really anything to do with trade value or dishonesty.

Yes, we will see. My conclusion was based on how Paxson has spoken about his disappointment with Dunn, how Paxson omitted Dunn from his description of the core going forward, how Paxson mentioned the team being set from 2-5, how Boylen has spoken about his vigorously open lines of communication with Paxson and how they are on the same page, Arci outplaying Dunn last year, the draft of White, the signing of Sato which was advertised as us adding a PG who would fit the Bulls to a T, the re-signing of Arci, the rumors of the team trying to trade Dunn, the fact that the Tyus Jones signing nixed the rumored trade of Dunn for Holiday, the fact that it is in the Bulls' interest to convince potential trade partners that they need to trade for Dunn if they want him (because the Bulls won't just waive him), and the fact that Boylen said this a day after Cowley's article came out talking about Dunn having "checked out" (thereby tending to make teams think that, if they wait, the Bulls will just waive Dunn).

Perhaps this will clear up your confusion, at least as it relates to my position.

Oh, and I now see that KC is helping the Bulls clean up the mess that Boylen made with his comment.

[Hangtime84]

Inside Kris Dunn is a pretty good NBA starting point guard, but I don't know if that player ever materializes consistently.

Hard part he has to sort of re invent himself similar to how bigs like Okafor are going through. The demand for ball dominate lead guards who cannot shoot are dwindling. Those who aren’t established like Dunn can find their way out the league.

He is going to have to get a jump shot and the clock is ticking.

He might be able to pull Marcus Smart and position himself as a guy who play 1-3 as a energy guy. Jury still out. I don’t question Dunn competitive nature at all. But it’s special type strength to reinvent yourself.

[Michael Jackson]

Inside Kris Dunn is a pretty good NBA starting point guard, but I don't know if that player ever materializes consistently.

Hard part he has to sort of re invent himself similar to how bigs like Okafor are going through. The demand for ball dominate lead guards who cannot shoot are dwindling. Those who aren’t established like Dunn can find their way out the league.

He is going to have to get a jump shot and the clock is ticking.

He might be able to pull Marcus Smart and position himself as a guy who play 1-3 as a energy guy. Jury still out. I don’t question Dunn competitive nature at all. But it’s special type strength to reinvent yourself.

That being said he can because he does have the physical tools to do it. We shall see if he has the mental tools.

[bearadonisdna]

It's not that hard to believe Kris could still be the 2nd best guard on the team.
Bulls added coby and tomas, it ain't exactly the mecca of guard play.

[Michael Jackson]

It's not that hard to believe Kris could still be the 2nd best guard on the team.
Bulls added coby and tomas, it ain't exactly the mecca of guard play.

Agreed. We have no idea what White will be and really wont have a clue for at the minimum another 12 months more likely 36 months. Tomas is fine and we know what he is. Totally fine player but Dunn still has higher ceiling than him, also still has a lower floor. At this point though let them play it out and see what happens. If Dunn wins the starting job or the 6th man job and improves month over month in the season, well that is great for the team even if only as an asset. If he flames out well so what his trade value right now is Marcus Fizer.

[Indomitable]

It's not that hard to believe Kris could still be the 2nd best guard on the team.
Bulls added coby and tomas, it ain't exactly the mecca of guard play.

It could be worst. It could be the Knicks.

[FriedRise]

While we all know that it's 99% Zach-Porter-Lauri-WCJ and the PG spot is up for grabs, I'm not sure why Boylen had to go there. My guess is because the other 4 positions are technically set that he just slipped up and started listing everyone. Can't back out of that one.

It would've been safer to just say all positions are open, and everyone on the roster has a chance to compete for the starting lineup during training camp (which I believe is Pax's stance in all this). But whatever, no big deal.

[bearadonisdna]

It's not that hard to believe Kris could still be the 2nd best guard on the team.
Bulls added coby and tomas, it ain't exactly the mecca of guard play.

It could be worst. It could be the Knicks.

The Knicks added rj barrett. c'mon bro.

[Indomitable]

It's not that hard to believe Kris could still be the 2nd best guard on the team.
Bulls added coby and tomas, it ain't exactly the mecca of guard play.

It could be worst. It could be the Knicks.

The Knicks added rj barrett. c'mon bro.

And ........the rest of the backcourt is craptastic. Dennis clueless Smith is a dreadful off the ball player. He is going to play real well with RJ ball dominating after struggling with Doncic doing the same thing.

PLUS, RJ has not impressed me. Not really athletic but has a lot of Evan Turner in him. RJ is ball dominant and plays with it in his hand. He is not explosive and is not special. Culver is the guy you should have grabbed. He will be the 2nd best player out of this draft. But the Knicks have to Knick.

[bearadonisdna]

It could be worst. It could be the Knicks.

The Knicks added rj barrett. c'mon bro.

And ........the rest of the backcourt is craptastic. Dennis clueless Smith is a dreadful off the ball player. He is going to play real well with RJ ball dominating after struggling with Doncic doing the same thing.

PLUS, RJ has not impressed me. Not really athletic but has a lot of Evan Turner in him. RJ is ball dominant and plays with it in his hand. He is not explosive and is not special. Culver is the guy you should have grabbed. He will be the 2nd best player out of this draft. But the Knicks have to Knick.

Most of this is just your opinion. RJ was pretty much much a consensus top 3 pick by the NBA community.
Now it's knick will knick when it's an obscure perspective?

Also if you cancel out Zach and rj as being each teams best backcourt players, the Knicks arguably have a better backcourt .

For example this is their backcourt:
Dsj, Dotson, trier, wayne Ellington, Reggie bullocks, elfrid payton, ntlinka.

[Indomitable]

The Knicks added rj barrett. c'mon bro.

And ........the rest of the backcourt is craptastic. Dennis clueless Smith is a dreadful off the ball player. He is going to play real well with RJ ball dominating after struggling with Doncic doing the same thing.

PLUS, RJ has not impressed me. Not really athletic but has a lot of Evan Turner in him. RJ is ball dominant and plays with it in his hand. He is not explosive and is not special. Culver is the guy you should have grabbed. He will be the 2nd best player out of this draft. But the Knicks have to Knick.

Most of this is just your opinion. RJ was pretty much much a consensus top 3 pick by the NBA community.
Now it's knick will knick when it's an obscure perspective?

Also if you cancel out Zach and rj as being each teams best backcourt players, the Knicks arguably have a better backcourt .

RJ has yet to play a pro game therefore, there is no cancelling out.

Dennis did not struggle in Dallas due to Doncic having the ball. This is fact not my opinion. He was bad and pouty.

RJ is not fast, or that athletic. He is fairly long but is left hand dominate. He can succeed but his physical skills are not awe inspiring.

The Culver part is my opinion but most of the things being discussed in this forum is opinion. So What is your point. The Bulls back court is better then the Knicks right now. It is possible that RJ is great but we will see. Until then the Bulls have it.

[transplant]

Boylen said what he said and every NBA FO employee said bull**** in unison.

I really wish he wouldn't say stupid stuff like this.

Except Pax has said the exact opposite since about March or so.

I don't know exactly what Pax said, but I know that he drafted White with his first pick, signed Satoransky to real money and re-upped Arcidiacano to a 3rd PG contract. Several reports say that they would dearly love to trade Dunn for a useful wing.

Then Boylen says this and some say that it's just to boost Dunn's value. The other teams aren't that stupid.