Interesting tweet to ESPN article: NBA young players are suffering injuries related to wear & tear at an alarming rate

[DuckIII]

I am a sports loving, sports coaching, father of 3 boys who, being objectively honest, are all basically the best male athletes in their respective grades at school. Now, I live in a rural area and each grade only has about 150 students, so we aren’t talking about future D-1 stars here or anything. It’s not a huge talent pool. But my point is they are all just naturally good at sports, so if I wanted to I could convince myself to push them into specialization. It’s out there. My two oldest (15 and 11) have had coaches suggest they specialize. This summer alone, my 8 year old who plays public league rec baseball, has been recruited by 4 different select teams. Recruited. He’s 8. That isn’t my way of saying he’s awesome. That’s my way of saying this is ridiculous. Those coaches are literally scouting games.

I'm truly curious about why a coach of 8 year olds would be so enthusiastic about his job that he would spend time scouting kids. Or this, like, a high school coach scouting for future talent?

Because if he is coaching 8 year olds, what the heck is his motivation? He really cares that much about his team? I guess perhaps he wants his team to do well so he can move up the coaching ladder and onto better jobs?

All seems insane to me.

So, some of the motives were identified by others, but in these particular instances it’s largely that these guys just want the best players around on their teams because they have a kid on the team and just want it to be “the best.” Also, there is a little community surrounding this stuff and they want the recognition and prestige for themselves of coaching a good team. Not a huge deal, really.

However, some of these guys (not specifically the guys who sought out my 8 year old) are the “owners” of whole programs that have A, AA, and AAA teams in each division 8u to 17u. Hundreds and hundreds of players, with big money involved. The more successful your program, the more people who will try out, and the more you can charge the families. It can generate a lot of $$.

My 11 year old, the golfer, used to play select baseball for a good regional team. But it was rural based. So they would have open try outs and maybe 18-20 kids would show up to compete for 12 spots.

But the big “program” teams out of St. Louis would have 80 - 100 kids try out for 12 spots. Our coach was talking to the coach of one of those teams and he was saying he held a try out for 2 spots on his team that had opened up, and 70 kids showed up. To get on one of the huge program teams is kind of like how some parents compete for spots in private elementary schools. They perceive it as getting their kid a leg up on their future. So, in turn, the better the program’s reputation, the more people will pay to join it.

[Chi town]

Where its going is your kid won't make it unless he/she does specialize. Or unless they are a truly elite athlete with D1 type of talent.

I was a decent athlete that played golf, baseball, and basketball. I chose to play basketball only in HS and outworked everyone on my team. I got every ounce out of my talent and was a 6th man my junior year and starting PG senior year. We were good and ended up winning two state titles.

My golf game today wishes I had played golf in HS as I could have played varsity as a soph. Overall, it was all worth it with the experience of winning two titles and having a great coach that taught us about life.

I have two boys 10 and 8 that are now playing AAU basketball. They have 2 practices per week and 1-2 Saturday only tourneys per month. I played a total of 1 weekend tourney when I was in 4th grade. My son has played 15. I am shocked at how skilled these kids are so young. Most of them still don't understand the game yet but they can shoot and dribble.

As I have talked to lots of players and coaches I have been shocked at how many of these kids are playing bball year round with no others sports and they have been playing since 2nd grade.

Spoiler Alert: Parents are ruining youth sports by letting coaches take over their kids childhood

We have been asked to be on better teams that play more and I have refused and won't let it happen. I want my boys to learn and love the game, not get burned out before they are even in middle school.

As Duck has said... so much of it is a money game. The uniforms these kids are wearing, the shooting shirts, hoodies, warmups, bags, team shoes. I dont' know these parents can afford it either. My son's team is in Vegas right now for a tourney that we chose to sit out.

[MeloRoseNoah]

I am a sports loving, sports coaching, father of 3 boys who, being objectively honest, are all basically the best male athletes in their respective grades at school. Now, I live in a rural area and each grade only has about 150 students, so we aren’t talking about future D-1 stars here or anything. It’s not a huge talent pool. But my point is they are all just naturally good at sports, so if I wanted to I could convince myself to push them into specialization. It’s out there. My two oldest (15 and 11) have had coaches suggest they specialize. This summer alone, my 8 year old who plays public league rec baseball, has been recruited by 4 different select teams. Recruited. He’s 8. That isn’t my way of saying he’s awesome. That’s my way of saying this is ridiculous. Those coaches are literally scouting games.

I'm truly curious about why a coach of 8 year olds would be so enthusiastic about his job that he would spend time scouting kids. Or this, like, a high school coach scouting for future talent?

Because if he is coaching 8 year olds, what the heck is his motivation? He really cares that much about his team? I guess perhaps he wants his team to do well so he can move up the coaching ladder and onto better jobs?

All seems insane to me.

So, some of the motives were identified by others, but in these particular instances it’s largely that these guys just want the best players around on their teams because they have a kid on the team and just want it to be “the best.” Also, there is a little community surrounding this stuff and they want the recognition and prestige for themselves of coaching a good team. Not a huge deal, really.

However, some of these guys (not specifically the guys who sought out my 8 year old) are the “owners” of whole programs that have A, AA, and AAA teams in each division 8u to 17u. Hundreds and hundreds of players, with big money involved. The more successful your program, the more people who will try out, and the more you can charge the families. It can generate a lot of $$.

My 11 year old, the golfer, used to play select baseball for a good regional team. But it was rural based. So they would have open try outs and maybe 18-20 kids would show up to compete for 12 spots.

But the big “program” teams out of St. Louis would have 80 - 100 kids try out for 12 spots. Our coach was talking to the coach of one of those teams and he was saying he held a try out for 2 spots on his team that had opened up, and 70 kids showed up. To get on one of the huge program teams is kind of like how some parents compete for spots in private elementary schools. They perceive it as getting their kid a leg up on their future. So, in turn, the better the program’s reputation, the more people will pay to join it.

Yup. This is the trend in a lot of big cities right now.

I have moved out to the rural countryside of the US in the past 4 years and am loving life right now.

My boys are try out all sports all year long without any pressure. More space and you can literally leave your houses unlocked without being worried.

Haven’t missed the old Chi-Raq atmosphere at all.

[DaeDae]

Where its going is your kid won't make it unless he/she does specialize. Or unless they are a truly elite athlete with D1 type of talent.

I was a decent athlete that played golf, baseball, and basketball. I chose to play basketball only in HS and outworked everyone on my team. I got every ounce out of my talent and was a 6th man my junior year and starting PG senior year. We were good and ended up winning two state titles.

My golf game today wishes I had played golf in HS as I could have played varsity as a soph. Overall, it was all worth it with the experience of winning two titles and having a great coach that taught us about life.

I have two boys 10 and 8 that are now playing AAU basketball. They have 2 practices per week and 1-2 Saturday only tourneys per month. I played a total of 1 weekend tourney when I was in 4th grade. My son has played 15. I am shocked at how skilled these kids are so young. Most of them still don't understand the game yet but they can shoot and dribble.

As I have talked to lots of players and coaches I have been shocked at how many of these kids are playing bball year round with no others sports and they have been playing since 2nd grade.

Spoiler Alert: Parents are ruining youth sports by letting coaches take over their kids childhood

We have been asked to be on better teams that play more and I have refused and won't let it happen. I want my boys to learn and love the game, not get burned out before they are even in middle school.

As Duck has said... so much of it is a money game. The uniforms these kids are wearing, the shooting shirts, hoodies, warmups, bags, team shoes. I dont' know these parents can afford it either. My son's team is in Vegas right now for a tourney that we chose to sit out.

I agree with every word. Every word.

[Dieselbound&Down]

This became a pretty interesting thread.

Being a parent and dealing with this is harder than I figured. Using my oldest son as an example, I thought I would keep him in rec league soccer until he was a bit older, maybe U10. One awful parent coach when he was 6 convinced me he should play in a travel program. He is good and, with a friend, started going to some practices for other coaches in the club and pretty soon was guest playing on 2 older teams. At first, it was fun. He got used to the faster pace and built confidence. But this built to the point where you feel committed and games just build up without you realizing. At the end of this spring season (he was 10), with lots of games pushed to the end due to rain outs, he had an insane number of games lined up for several weeks. I tried to manage it but he was clearly ready for a break and this made me rethink this going forward. This spring he also wasn't super happy with his regular team due to coaches and personalities which led him to try out for another club. He got an offer to join a really good club but we had a long talk about what he really wanted. The pull of the new team, lots more regional travel, more practices (4x week) and games and all of that 40 minutes from home with no friends to carpool with. I angsted a little but turned down the invite. In hindsight, already glad I made that decision.

My next son is 6. He is doing a supplemental program (like 1/2 travelish) that emphasizes the skill side of things, almost all latino kids, keep things upbeat and a pretty good level of play. The parents of some kids, particularly teams they play against, are a bit insane which he finds fun (it's not directed at him or his team, not negative and better atmosphere in his mind) and he's loving it. I purposefully put him in this program instead of the full blown travel and I guarantee that with everything he's doing he'll be fine if/when he's ready for something more.

it's interested as, the more I learn about specifically soccer but also other youth sports, you realize how fragmented it is out there, the options, agendas and personalities you meet along the way make it kind of hard to know for sure if you are making the best choices at times. I expect this to be a fluid process for my kids, likely different for each kid, much different than it was for me growing up in a smaller town where there was basically one option.

I found part 2 of the article really interesting about the companies that study bio mechanics and mix that with training programs. Rehabbing my own injuries, I learned through my own mistakes, different trainers, the indifference of my past coaches to the importance of properly building up a player, etc. how important this is. Having really crappy knees in my 40s isn't fun. I want my kids to come out of their sporting careers with a love of 1 sport, an appreciation and sense of joy playing several sports, a honed competitiveness and sense of leadership/confidence, and all of their body parts in good working order.

[Dieselbound&Down]

I have two boys 10 and 8 that are now playing AAU basketball. They have 2 practices per week and 1-2 Saturday only tourneys per month. I played a total of 1 weekend tourney when I was in 4th grade. My son has played 15. I am shocked at how skilled these kids are so young. Most of them still don't understand the game yet but they can shoot and dribble.

As I have talked to lots of players and coaches I have been shocked at how many of these kids are playing bball year round with no others sports and they have been playing since 2nd grade.

Spoiler Alert: Parents are ruining youth sports by letting coaches take over their kids childhood

We have been asked to be on better teams that play more and I have refused and won't let it happen. I want my boys to learn and love the game, not get burned out before they are even in middle school.

As Duck has said... so much of it is a money game. The uniforms these kids are wearing, the shooting shirts, hoodies, warmups, bags, team shoes. I dont' know these parents can afford it either. My son's team is in Vegas right now for a tourney that we chose to sit out.

It is human nature to feel that the decision you made for your own child/situation struck the right balance and was best. At times it feels the lines I draw are a bit subjective but I've found a few other parents who I think have a similar mindset in wanting a balanced experience for their kids helps me keep a good perspective.

Obviously this can go different ways but I find it interesting that several parents I talk to who seem to have a healthier, more holistic outlook in "appropriately" limiting their kids, are parents who themselves played sports at a high level. Again, stereotyping here, but parents who were not "star" athletes seem to have a greater tendency (in my mind at least) to go all in pushing their kids. I think it is an outgrowth of their own view of their past failings as an athlete, that if they had only been trained a little harder they would have achieved great things. The more personally invested a parent gets in their kids success, the worse their decision making gets.

[Chi town]

I have two boys 10 and 8 that are now playing AAU basketball. They have 2 practices per week and 1-2 Saturday only tourneys per month. I played a total of 1 weekend tourney when I was in 4th grade. My son has played 15. I am shocked at how skilled these kids are so young. Most of them still don't understand the game yet but they can shoot and dribble.

As I have talked to lots of players and coaches I have been shocked at how many of these kids are playing bball year round with no others sports and they have been playing since 2nd grade.

Spoiler Alert: Parents are ruining youth sports by letting coaches take over their kids childhood

We have been asked to be on better teams that play more and I have refused and won't let it happen. I want my boys to learn and love the game, not get burned out before they are even in middle school.

As Duck has said... so much of it is a money game. The uniforms these kids are wearing, the shooting shirts, hoodies, warmups, bags, team shoes. I dont' know these parents can afford it either. My son's team is in Vegas right now for a tourney that we chose to sit out.

It is human nature to feel that the decision you made for your own child/situation struck the right balance and was best. At times it feels the lines I draw are a bit subjective but I've found a few other parents who I think have a similar mindset in wanting a balanced experience for their kids helps me keep a good perspective.

Obviously this can go different ways but I find it interesting that several parents I talk to who seem to have a healthier, more holistic outlook in "appropriately" limiting their kids, are parents who themselves played sports at a high level. Again, stereotyping here, but parents who were not "star" athletes seem to have a greater tendency (in my mind at least) to go all in pushing their kids. I think it is an outgrowth of their own view of their past failings as an athlete, that if they had only been trained a little harder they would have achieved great things. The more personally invested a parent gets in their kids success, the worse their decision making gets.

The kids always lose when their parents try to live vicariously through them.

I’ve purposely had to take a back seat because I’m a passionate Irishman and I get too intense, especially at this age and stage. ))

[madvillian]

I haven't read the article yet, but this question came to mind the other day after I heard the WCJ news.

Why did it seem like players back in the day never got hurt nearly as much despite playing 40+ minutes per game in an era that was much more physically demanding than in today's era?

You are mistaking physically demanding with total mins played vs the intensity of the game.

Watch a game in the 80s vs now, and see the diff in term of athletic difference. Most of the players break down fast nowadays, in due to the increased cuts, explosions, and change in directions that are required to play the game at a high level.

In order to make those movements, guys need to spend more time in the weight room to develop the fast twitch muscles. That's why explosive athletes like Drose don't last long in the league. Guys that last long in the league with will be physical superior players with elite lengths and elite fundamentals.

I'm surprised you didn't get more dap for this post but I don't think many people are athletic trainers or workout enough themselves to have more than a casual interest in the topic.

You build up your muscles enough you'll tear an achilles or patella tendon as the forces put on the tendons (and ligaments and other connective tissues in the body) are massive and unprecedented human evolution

These are injuries that were virtually unheard of in the NBA before guys started squatting 500lbs in order to cut faster, jump higher and out muscle the opponent for rebounds.

You can do everything right training wise, including getting enough rest, recovery, rehab and prehab and due to the forces still blow out your knee or achilles.

You see similar with pitchers in MLB. Guys are throwing 92-98 MPH, max effort, all game long. This is a massive jump in velocity (and forces on the arm and shoulder) than even just 20 years ago. Name a successful SP in MLB that averages under 90 on his FB. You can't. Those guys are gone. Hitters are too good. So the pitchers adapted but with that comes more injuries.

All sports are facing the same thing. American FB is another great example of what happens when athletes get bigger, faster and stronger.