Are We Sleeping on Otto Porter?

[musiqsoulchild]

Thad is a glue guy like Otto but goes about it much differently than him. They compliment each other but I don't think Thad can replace him.

Otto can opt out after this year. You aren't trading him on draft night.

Sure Thad cant replace Otto. In fact no one can. But Thad is a fraction of the price and if the Bulls can bring in a max worthy player I will gladly take it. My concern is Otto will never resign for 20+ so they need to look for good trade offers.
Both Otto and Lavine are great trade chips.

For me personally, everyone on this roster is available. I just wouldn't overpay and I would prefer that the team go for it now and try to trade future picks for a superstar instead of current players. I worry that the Bulls are going to try to keep their salary down by dumping players due for extensions soon and then any trade will just end up being a sideways move.

Jerry isn't going to like this but going for it in the NBA means paying a lot in salary.

Jerry wont like paying tax. But he will pay tax in this weakened East which is top heavy.

And you really dont need to pay tax if you manage your payroll properly. Which Gar is a master at.

The question really is will Gar be allowed to trade away future first rounders to grab superstars?

That is what I think JR is really against. More than LT. I think the Bulls Finance team loves having the cost control of rookie contracts....even to the detriment of talent maximization.

[sco]

As demonstrated by Brogdon's contract, I don't see Otto getting a deal for more than he makes now.

Unless Lauri improves his 3pt shooting %, playmaking ability off the dribble and defense to make him a near elite player, I see him being traded before Bulls need to pay him a max deal.

[coldfish]

Sure Thad cant replace Otto. In fact no one can. But Thad is a fraction of the price and if the Bulls can bring in a max worthy player I will gladly take it. My concern is Otto will never resign for 20+ so they need to look for good trade offers.
Both Otto and Lavine are great trade chips.

For me personally, everyone on this roster is available. I just wouldn't overpay and I would prefer that the team go for it now and try to trade future picks for a superstar instead of current players. I worry that the Bulls are going to try to keep their salary down by dumping players due for extensions soon and then any trade will just end up being a sideways move.

Jerry isn't going to like this but going for it in the NBA means paying a lot in salary.

Jerry wont like paying tax. But he will pay tax in this weakened East which is top heavy.

And you really dont need to pay tax if you manage your payroll properly. Which Gar is a master at.

The question really is will Gar be allowed to trade away future first rounders to grab superstars?

That is what I think JR is really against. More than LT. I think the Bulls Finance team loves having the cost control of rookie contracts....even to the detriment of talent maximization.

Jerry was honest years ago. He would only pay the tax for a top 4 team. Basically, get really good and then he would spend money to keep the team.

IMO, that's never going to work. It will be self fulfilling failure as there will always be teams going for it and keeping a low salary Chicago out of that top 4 requirement.

And yeah, the Bulls really like first round picks because they are cheap labor for a few years. With that said, the other thing GarPax is good at is picking up vet min free agents. That might change though, with shorter NBA deals and more capspace available, competent players might not fall through the cracks.

[coldfish]

As demonstrated by Brogdon's contract, I don't see Otto getting a deal for more than he makes now.

Unless Lauri improves his 3pt shooting %, playmaking ability off the dribble and defense to make him a near elite player, I see him being traded before Bulls need to pay him a max deal.

Lauri is the guy that really scares me. Between his injuries, his conditioning and his lack of defensive awareness, I think he has a ceiling to him but I suspect he is going to get a max contract. I would use him as a trade sweetener for a star pretty easily. Let his extension be someone else's problem.

[drosereturn]

As demonstrated by Brogdon's contract, I don't see Otto getting a deal for more than he makes now.

Unless Lauri improves his 3pt shooting %, playmaking ability off the dribble and defense to make him a near elite player, I see him being traded before Bulls need to pay him a max deal.

Lauri is the guy that really scares me. Between his injuries, his conditioning and his lack of defensive awareness, I think he has a ceiling to him but I suspect he is going to get a max contract. I would use him as a trade sweetener for a star pretty easily. Let his extension be someone else's problem.

I understand your concern but to me he is the only one that is borderline untouchable as of now.
I see all the talent in him like KP which I never see in Coby.
If he has the same nagging injuries, I totally agree he would be a great trade chip and can generate what KP got.
Bulls need to sell their young talent for proven stars not too washed up. Even a Kemba level would be awesome although want Giannis.
You cannot have a glue guy Otto be the best player on your team.
Thats not a knock on Otto at all but the team performance in general was really disappointing last yr.

[johnnyvann840]

I don't understand why we would want to look at trading Otto? If anybody on the entire team is worth his contract right now, it's Porter. Especially the thought of trading a 26 year old high impact winning player to replace him in the starting line up with a 31 year old who would be playing out of position. I like Young, a lot, but he is on the wrong side of 30 and he is, IMO, not a wing, he's a 4, a big. You can't start him at the 3. He is a 4 and he should remain a bench player at this point of his career. The biggest mistake teams can make is to get rid of guys entering their prime. Otto is just entering his prime. The Bulls were abysmal last season and Porter, when on the floor makes them a decent team. Makes everybody around him better. When a guy comes to a bottom 4 team in the league that is playing at a pt differential of near -10 and all of sudden the team is outscoring opponents and in positive pt diff territory when he is on the floor. That is the definition of value. Is he overpaid? Sure. But so is just about every player in the league except a handful.

[musiqsoulchild]

For me personally, everyone on this roster is available. I just wouldn't overpay and I would prefer that the team go for it now and try to trade future picks for a superstar instead of current players. I worry that the Bulls are going to try to keep their salary down by dumping players due for extensions soon and then any trade will just end up being a sideways move.

Jerry isn't going to like this but going for it in the NBA means paying a lot in salary.

Jerry wont like paying tax. But he will pay tax in this weakened East which is top heavy.

And you really dont need to pay tax if you manage your payroll properly. Which Gar is a master at.

The question really is will Gar be allowed to trade away future first rounders to grab superstars?

That is what I think JR is really against. More than LT. I think the Bulls Finance team loves having the cost control of rookie contracts....even to the detriment of talent maximization.

Jerry was honest years ago. He would only pay the tax for a top 4 team. Basically, get really good and then he would spend money to keep the team.

IMO, that's never going to work. It will be self fulfilling failure as there will always be teams going for it and keeping a low salary Chicago out of that top 4 requirement.

And yeah, the Bulls really like first round picks because they are cheap labor for a few years. With that said, the other thing GarPax is good at is picking up vet min free agents. That might change though, with shorter NBA deals and more capspace available, competent players might not fall through the cracks.

LT is not even the conversation here. It's how we wont give away future assets to consolidate the NOW.

That's the biggest roadblock to talent maximization.

Otto + Felicio + one first round pick could get us a nice piece. But we won't do it.

We have a 15 year history of evidence that shows we wont trade away future assets. The only time we did that was when we cleared space for LeBron and traded away the #17 pick so Washington could take on Kirk's contract.

And JR said later that it was a mistake than he regretted till date.

This is organizational mandate. There is no question about it. And it is also the biggest impediment that GarPax face.

[musiqsoulchild]

I don't understand why we would want to look at trading Otto? If anybody on the entire team is worth his contract right now, it's Porter. Especially the thought of trading a 26 year old high impact winning player to replace him in the starting line up with a 31 year old who would be playing out of position. I like Young, a lot, but he is on the wrong side of 30 and he is, IMO, not a wing, he's a 4, a big. You can't start him at the 3. He is a 4 and he should remain a bench player at this point of his career. The biggest mistake teams can make is to get rid of guys entering their prime. Otto is just entering his prime. The Bulls were abysmal last season and Porter, when on the floor makes them a decent team. Makes everybody around him better. When a guy comes to a bottom 4 team in the league that is playing at a pt differential of near -10 and all of sudden the team is outscoring opponents and in positive pt diff territory when he is on the floor. That is the definition of value. Is he overpaid? Sure. But so is just about every player in the league except a handful.

Everything you said is the reason why he is the most tradeable player on the team.

He us 26 Million dollars of PRODUCTIVE salary. I would try to do the Caron Butler + Another piece for Shaq type trade.

If an opportunity presents itself of course.

[drosereturn]

I don't understand why we would want to look at trading Otto? If anybody on the entire team is worth his contract right now, it's Porter. Especially the thought of trading a 26 year old high impact winning player to replace him in the starting line up with a 31 year old who would be playing out of position. I like Young, a lot, but he is on the wrong side of 30 and he is, IMO, not a wing, he's a 4, a big. You can't start him at the 3. He is a 4 and he should remain a bench player at this point of his career. The biggest mistake teams can make is to get rid of guys entering their prime. Otto is just entering his prime. The Bulls were abysmal last season and Porter, when on the floor makes them a decent team. Makes everybody around him better. When a guy comes to a bottom 4 team in the league that is playing at a pt differential of near -10 and all of sudden the team is outscoring opponents and in positive pt diff territory when he is on the floor. That is the definition of value. Is he overpaid? Sure. But so is just about every player in the league except a handful.

I would never want to trade him but kinda have to force to trade him or risk losing him for nothing.
Which is really frustrating since you really want to trade all the low impact players and I was hyped when they got him.
Cant really keep him if he wants 30+ but he wont take 20+ since Bulls are a lottery team.

[johnnyvann840]

I don't understand why we would want to look at trading Otto? If anybody on the entire team is worth his contract right now, it's Porter. Especially the thought of trading a 26 year old high impact winning player to replace him in the starting line up with a 31 year old who would be playing out of position. I like Young, a lot, but he is on the wrong side of 30 and he is, IMO, not a wing, he's a 4, a big. You can't start him at the 3. He is a 4 and he should remain a bench player at this point of his career. The biggest mistake teams can make is to get rid of guys entering their prime. Otto is just entering his prime. The Bulls were abysmal last season and Porter, when on the floor makes them a decent team. Makes everybody around him better. When a guy comes to a bottom 4 team in the league that is playing at a pt differential of near -10 and all of sudden the team is outscoring opponents and in positive pt diff territory when he is on the floor. That is the definition of value. Is he overpaid? Sure. But so is just about every player in the league except a handful.

I would never want to trade him but kinda have to force to trade him or risk losing him for nothing.
Which is really frustrating since you really want to trade all the low impact players and I was hyped when they got him.
Cant really keep him if he wants 30+ but he wont take 20+ since Bulls are a lottery team.

This is where communication is so important. You know he has a player option, so you approach him and his agent and you start the dialogue. What are your plans Otto? You need to be proactive and offer him an extension verbally first. If he tells you he is planning on opting out and wants to become a FA, then you find out if he WANTS to stay. If not, then you begin looking for the best trade scenario. Maybe a sign and trade could work if the player coming back is what you want and need. Then you revisit this near the deadline and depending on where the team is at, you take action if necessary.

I've always been of the belief that "losing a player for nothing" is better than taking on some other teams crap just to try and make sure you get "something". The cap space itself becomes an asset when it is close to $30M and the freedom to spend it on what you want. I don't want the Bulls to ever feel pressure to make a deal because a player might walk in free agency.

[johnnyvann840]

I don't understand why we would want to look at trading Otto? If anybody on the entire team is worth his contract right now, it's Porter. Especially the thought of trading a 26 year old high impact winning player to replace him in the starting line up with a 31 year old who would be playing out of position. I like Young, a lot, but he is on the wrong side of 30 and he is, IMO, not a wing, he's a 4, a big. You can't start him at the 3. He is a 4 and he should remain a bench player at this point of his career. The biggest mistake teams can make is to get rid of guys entering their prime. Otto is just entering his prime. The Bulls were abysmal last season and Porter, when on the floor makes them a decent team. Makes everybody around him better. When a guy comes to a bottom 4 team in the league that is playing at a pt differential of near -10 and all of sudden the team is outscoring opponents and in positive pt diff territory when he is on the floor. That is the definition of value. Is he overpaid? Sure. But so is just about every player in the league except a handful.

Everything you said is the reason why he is the most tradeable player on the team.

He us 26 Million dollars of PRODUCTIVE salary. I would try to do the Caron Butler + Another piece for Shaq type trade.

If an opportunity presents itself of course.

But that is just silly. Who are we getting back that is going to help this team more than he already is? I would rather move a player that isn't making a difference in winning and keep and accumulate high positive impact players.

Caron Butler? WTF? Why? Is he even still in the league? Why would the Bulls want a 39 year old washed up player? And why wouldn't we be keeping Shaq Harrison?

[Chi]

What is his contract situation after next season?

[johnnyvann840]

What is his contract situation after next season?

Player option

[navdeep_singh]

No we are not sleeping on Otto Porter. We are sleeping on the fact that this team is not nearly as bad as it’s a record of the last two years and most likely will be a playoff team this upcoming season with at least one maybe two possible All-Stars . Who will not be Otto Porter; But OPJ will have a significant role in helping them become All-Stars. He is the type of player that all excellent playoff teams need. And we should be in the playoffs this season

[Chi]

What is his contract situation after next season?

Player option

Restricted?

[johnnyvann840]

No we are not sleeping on Otto Porter. We are sleeping on the fact that this team is not nearly as bad as it’s a record of the last two years and most likely will be a playoff team this upcoming season with at least one maybe two possible All-Stars . Who will not be Otto Porter; But OPJ will have a significant role in helping them become All-Stars. He is the type of player that all excellent playoff teams need. And we should be in the playoffs this season

Actually, the problem is that this team was worse than it's record without Otto on the roster. There wasn't one player on this team that plays winning basketball without him on the floor.

This illustrates the difference maker he was.... Look who helps everyone else and who doesn't. I used the two man because it allows us to isolate on how players perform with other players. I used Dunn here only because he had common minutes with both Zach and Otto. Same with Lauri.

If Lavine and Lauri are the Bulls two main pieces going forward, a LOT has to change if this team is getting close to making the playoffs. Hell, this team is going to have trouble winning 35 games if you take Porter out...

Lavine 2-man



Lauri 2-man



Dunn 2-man



Otto Porter on/off totals



Zach Lavine on/off totals

[johnnyvann840]

The Bulls actually outscored their opponent by +1.1 pp100 with Otto on the floor. Amazing, considering without him they got outscored by over 10 pp100. Didn't matter who else was on the floor or what time of year it was. The Dunn, Lavine, Lauri trio was abysmal without Porter. Just awful. Any combination of them was awful with just about any other 2 player other than Otto. It's bad. Really bad.

[johnnyvann840]

And with Lopez gone now... it's even worse. Robin was the only other positive force playing anything close to resembling winning ball.

[sco]

No we are not sleeping on Otto Porter. We are sleeping on the fact that this team is not nearly as bad as it’s a record of the last two years and most likely will be a playoff team this upcoming season with at least one maybe two possible All-Stars . Who will not be Otto Porter; But OPJ will have a significant role in helping them become All-Stars. He is the type of player that all excellent playoff teams need. And we should be in the playoffs this season

Actually, the problem is that this team was worse than it's record without Otto on the roster. There wasn't one player on this team that plays winning basketball without him on the floor.

This illustrates the difference maker he was.... Look who helps everyone else and who doesn't. I used the two man because it allows us to isolate on how players perform with other players. I used Dunn here only because he had common minutes with both Zach and Otto. Same with Lauri.

If Lavine and Lauri are the Bulls two main pieces going forward, a LOT has to change if this team is getting close to making the playoffs. Hell, this team is going to have trouble winning 35 games if you take Porter out...

Lavine 2-man



Lauri 2-man



Dunn 2-man



Otto Porter on/off totals



Zach Lavine on/off totals

I am in agreement that having Otto is important for winning, but +- stats get muddied by just how devoid of NBA talent our roster was.

[85Bears]

Today, Otto is our best NBA player. Zach is 2nd and really, Thad young is probably 3rd.

If this core is going to compete for a title in the near future, by the end of this year, Lauri better be our best player.

To be a contender, I could see a team with:

1. Star Max player
2. a full potential Lauri as your 2nd best (Dirk lite)
3. Otto as 3rd option
4. Zach as 4th (super 6th man maybe)
5. Wendell - all defense type player

We should have all these answers by 2021 summer.


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