Denzel Valentine update (ankle) has still not been cleared for full-contact, 5-on-5 work. per rotoworld and the athletic

SpinninHouse · Post #101 » by **SpinninHouse** » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:23 am

Time to cut our losses and move on. Too much young talent on our roster to invest any time in Valentine. Even if he can prove that he can play at a high level, it will be short lived.

Not a huge loss - I had zero hopes for him.

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Post #102 » by **Michael Jackson** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:01 am

SpinninHouse wrote:Time to cut our losses and move on. Too much young talent on our roster to invest any time in Valentine. Even if he can prove that he can play at a high level, it will be short lived.

Not a huge loss - I had zero hopes for him.

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We might need the body honestly but other than that I am with you. Never liked him ( nor loathed him just didn’t like him).

sco · Post #103 » by **sco** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:14 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
SpinninHouse wrote:Time to cut our losses and move on. Too much young talent on our roster to invest any time in Valentine. Even if he can prove that he can play at a high level, it will be short lived.

Not a huge loss - I had zero hopes for him.

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We might need the body honestly but other than that I am with you. Never liked him ( nor loathed him just didn’t like him).

I disagree that we have young talent that Valentine would be taking minutes from. In fact, I still think we need another 2-3 vet in case we need some reliable minutes off the bench. Thabo or Shump would be great if we can dump Dunn.

I'd still keep Valentine because a healthy version of his best self is a very good bench player. His injury recovery should be knowable this season. It's a good low cost option.

MGB8 · Post #104 » by **MGB8** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:22 pm

sco wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
SpinninHouse wrote:Time to cut our losses and move on. Too much young talent on our roster to invest any time in Valentine. Even if he can prove that he can play at a high level, it will be short lived.

Not a huge loss - I had zero hopes for him.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We might need the body honestly but other than that I am with you. Never liked him ( nor loathed him just didn’t like him).

I disagree that we have young talent that Valentine would be taking minutes from. In fact, I still think we need another 2-3 vet in case we need some reliable minutes off the bench. Thabo or Shump would be great if we can dump Dunn.

I'd still keep Valentine because a healthy version of his best self is a very good bench player. His injury recovery should be knowable this season. It's a good low cost option.

I agree. Doug McDermott has turned himself into a passable bench/rotation player. There really is no reason Valentine can't do the same. In terms of size, he is fine for a wing, 6'4 w/o shoes (round up to 6'6 with them on) with a strong 6'10.75 wingspan and 8'6 reach. To compare, the 6'3.75 w/o shoes Brogdon and Heild have a wingspans of 6'10.5 and 6'9, and reaches of 8'2 and 8'5, respectively. He also compares favorably on both to guys like the 6'5.75 (w/o shoes) Caris LaVert, 6'8 (w/o shoes) Jake Layman, Patrick McCaw and Josh Hart. Heck, the 6'6.5 w/o shoes Taurean Prince has the same reach and only an inch greater wingspan.

Even his athletic deficiencies are overstated. At his combine, he had the 3rd fastest lane agility time (10.51), notably faster than guys like Malcolm Brogdon, Patrick McCaw, Josh Hart and Dorian Finney-Smith. His 3.22 shuttle time was a touch behind Hart's 3.15 and definitely on the slower end, but faster than Malachi Richardson and Jaron Blossomgame (the latter who is floating in and out of the league due to 3&D potential). The big negative on Valentine is lack of leaping ability and explosion - which is a real issue and limits ceiling on both ends - but really should mean a lot less on defense, which is more about footspeed, strength, skillset and, frankly, will.

Valentine can shoot, pass and handle. He has a skillset and a high offensive basketball IQ. The question is whether he can learn enough on defense to be passable. If he can, he very likely can a long-time rotation player in the NBA.

waffle · Post #105 » by **waffle** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:33 pm

when we drafted him the ceiling was low and the concern was health. I actually like his game but only if he can get on the court.

bah

Post #106 » by **dougthonus** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:04 pm

SpinninHouse wrote:Time to cut our losses and move on. Too much young talent on our roster to invest any time in Valentine. Even if he can prove that he can play at a high level, it will be short lived.

Not a huge loss - I had zero hopes for him.

You can replace him with a vet min player for this year. I'd rather take the chance on Valentine than any vet min players available on the market. There's no real investment here, it's just whether you want to free up a roster spot. You certainly aren't going to get anything in trade back for him.

I also don't have high hopes or think of it as a huge loss. I don't think we're doubling down or anything. Better off keeping him and Dunn vs letting them go because you can also use them as matching salaries in a trade.

sco · Post #107 » by **sco** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:11 pm

dougthonus wrote:
SpinninHouse wrote:Time to cut our losses and move on. Too much young talent on our roster to invest any time in Valentine. Even if he can prove that he can play at a high level, it will be short lived.

Not a huge loss - I had zero hopes for him.

You can replace him with a vet min player for this year. I'd rather take the chance on Valentine than any vet min players available on the market. There's no real investment here, it's just whether you want to free up a roster spot. You certainly aren't going to get anything in trade back for him.

I also don't have high hopes or think of it as a huge loss. I don't think we're doubling down or anything. Better off keeping him and Dunn vs letting them go because you can also use them as matching salaries in a trade.

Right on! There is a decent amount of potential have a near-starter talent, opportunity cost is a 3rd string talent.

Clint Eastwood · Post #108 » by **Clint Eastwood** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:36 am

Denzel was on my flight today connecting from ohare to Miami. He was very nice, took a pic with him, and he had no limp...he also looked pretty jacked. I hope he is healed up and can hit some threes for us off the bench, could be a nice little niche for him.

sco · Post #109 » by **sco** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:03 pm

Clint Eastwood wrote:Denzel was on my flight today connecting from ohare to Miami. He was very nice, took a pic with him, and he had no limp...he also looked pretty jacked. I hope he is healed up and can hit some threes for us off the bench, could be a nice little niche for him.

Dude, did you ask when he'll be cleared to go 5-5?

Post #110 » by **Michael Jackson** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:26 pm

Clint Eastwood wrote:Denzel was on my flight today connecting from ohare to Miami. He was very nice, took a pic with him, and he had no limp...he also looked pretty jacked. I hope he is healed up and can hit some threes for us off the bench, could be a nice little niche for him.

Did you get a chance to tell him the internet thinks he’s washed up? Let him know if the internet says it that it’s true.

Indomitable · Post #111 » by **Indomitable** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:27 pm

Clint Eastwood wrote:Denzel was on my flight today connecting from ohare to Miami. He was very nice, took a pic with him, and he had no limp...he also looked pretty jacked. I hope he is healed up and can hit some threes for us off the bench, could be a nice little niche for him.

Come on you should asked about Boylan.

Bandit King · Post #112 » by **Bandit King** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:15 am

I wouldn't take a pic on a bum like Valentine. Now if was Zack Lavine then I would. He has a future unlike Denzel.

drosereturn · Post #113 » by **drosereturn** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:37 am

dougthonus wrote:
SpinninHouse wrote:Time to cut our losses and move on. Too much young talent on our roster to invest any time in Valentine. Even if he can prove that he can play at a high level, it will be short lived.

Not a huge loss - I had zero hopes for him.

You can replace him with a vet min player for this year. I'd rather take the chance on Valentine than any vet min players available on the market. There's no real investment here, it's just whether you want to free up a roster spot. You certainly aren't going to get anything in trade back for him.

I also don't have high hopes or think of it as a huge loss. I don't think we're doubling down or anything. Better off keeping him and Dunn vs letting them go because you can also use them as matching salaries in a trade.

No. As much as I was high on Val, he and Dunn needs to go.
You are correct keeping them is little better but they are the main reasons why the Bulls sucked so hard.
Gotta start fresh and bring in vet min players that can contribute right away while having veteran presence.

Post #114 » by **DuckIII** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:22 am

Bandit King wrote:I wouldn't take a pic on a bum like Valentine. Now if was Zack Lavine then I would. He has a future unlike Denzel.

You wouldn’t get a picture taken with an NBA player on your favorite team, that you ran into in a public place, because he’s not highly ranked enough among the 500 best basketball players in the galaxy? Don’t want to lower yourself?

I don’t mean this as a criticism of you, personally, because it applies to most people (definitely applies to me). But Denzel Valentine is extremely likely to be better at playing basketball than you will ever be at anything you ever attempt to do in your entire life.

Bandit King · Post #115 » by **Bandit King** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:00 am

Denzel likely to be out of the league soon with that bum ankle.

NDave79 · Post #116 » by **NDave79** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:38 am

DuckIII wrote:
Bandit King wrote:I wouldn't take a pic on a bum like Valentine. Now if was Zack Lavine then I would. He has a future unlike Denzel.

You wouldn’t get a picture taken with an NBA player on your favorite team, that you ran into in a public place, because he’s not highly ranked enough among the 500 best basketball players in the galaxy? Don’t want to lower yourself?

I don’t mean this as a criticism of you, personally, because it applies to most people (definitely applies to me). But Denzel Washington is extremely likely to be better at playing basketball than you will ever be at anything you ever attempt to do in your entire life.

edit - Sorry, I couldn't help myself. This is the type of mistake I make every day, lol.

Post #117 » by **DuckIII** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:58 am

NDave79 wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
Bandit King wrote:I wouldn't take a pic on a bum like Valentine. Now if was Zack Lavine then I would. He has a future unlike Denzel.

You wouldn’t get a picture taken with an NBA player on your favorite team, that you ran into in a public place, because he’s not highly ranked enough among the 500 best basketball players in the galaxy? Don’t want to lower yourself?

I don’t mean this as a criticism of you, personally, because it applies to most people (definitely applies to me). But Denzel Washington is extremely likely to be better at playing basketball than you will ever be at anything you ever attempt to do in your entire life.

edit - Sorry, I couldn't help myself. This is the type of mistake I make every day, lol.

I edited it. I watched The Equalizer 2 last night. I had multiple Denzels on the brain. :oops:

robert76 · Post #118 » by **robert76** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:58 am

NDave79 wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
Bandit King wrote:I wouldn't take a pic on a bum like Valentine. Now if was Zack Lavine then I would. He has a future unlike Denzel.

You wouldn’t get a picture taken with an NBA player on your favorite team, that you ran into in a public place, because he’s not highly ranked enough among the 500 best basketball players in the galaxy? Don’t want to lower yourself?

I don’t mean this as a criticism of you, personally, because it applies to most people (definitely applies to me). But Denzel Washington is extremely likely to be better at playing basketball than you will ever be at anything you ever attempt to do in your entire life.

edit - Sorry, I couldn't help myself. This is the type of mistake I make every day, lol.

Well, he showed some skills against Ray Allen in "He Got Game", so what Duck said might still be true even with D. Washington instead of D. Valentine.

erlim · Post #119 » by **erlim** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:48 am

Did you guys ever see the movie Celtic Pride where Daniel Stern tries to play Daman Wayans one on one and gets destroyed? They should remake it based on Valentine, except the schlubby nobody lights up the NBA player for 55 points or whatever.

sco · Post #120 » by **sco** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:26 pm

I don't get why folks think we should be dumping Val. The opportunity cost of seeing if he can become a useful rotation piece again is almost zero. His upside his higher than almost anyone we'd replace him with at this point.

The way I see it, there are probably 12-20 wing minutes that to be filled by someone other than Zach, Otto, Sato, White, Thad. And we're basically saying that we're hoping that Val or Hutch (or Shaq/Dunn) can step-up and fill those minutes productively. Not a big risk - especially with Shaq back.