I Love OPJ - Do You?

[WindyCityBorn]

No, he wasn't, but guys are better shooters across the board now days, so the difference relative to era may not be that huge. But mostly I'm talking two way, glue guy that rarely ever hurts you.

If we had Otto back in. 2011. We win more games against the Heat.

That is why Lavine is going to be goldthis year. He has at least 3 to 4 guys who can really hit open shots. If Lauri and him can play better defense look out.

If 2011 Bulls had this version of LaVine they probably win the NBA championship. I don’t think Otto would help that team as much because he is a similar player to Deng. That team was missing a competent 2 guard.

If you cannot understand why it makes sense for him to give up $8 million in one season for say another $90 million(on the low end) guaranteed over 4 seasons then I can't help you understand. I even gave you the example of Harrison Barnes who did the exact same thing this off-season. Do you think he made a mistake because he didn't get another max contract? I gave you the risks of opting in vs the benefits of opting out. Your thinking is too short term. I'm not saying he absolutely will opt out, but if he has a great healthy season it makes zero financial sense to opt-in UNLESS there will not be any teams with major cap space available next summer interested in signing him to a big deal which would allow the Bulls to low-ball him. I don't think that is the case as of today.

[TeamMan]

Lol was never the shooter Otto is.

No, he wasn't, but guys are better shooters across the board now days, so the difference relative to era may not be that huge. But mostly I'm talking two way, glue guy that rarely ever hurts you.

If we had Otto back in. 2011. We win more games against the Heat.

That is why Lavine is going to be goldthis year. He has at least 3 to 4 guys who can really hit open shots. If Lauri and him can play better defense look out.

Now that the effects of the CBA have fully kicked in, it appears that the Warriors may be the last "Super Team" that anyone can put together for awhile.

What we see happening is that the All Star level players are being more evenly dispersed around the league, and that more and more, future draft picks are the deciding factor in trades that send All Star level players to other teams.

The end effect is that the "poor" teams in the NBA are getting more and more of the young talent.

And that brings us to the Bulls.

With Zach, Lauri and OPJ as a proven core, as well as the additions of WCJ, Coby White and Daniel Gafford, it can be argued that the Bulls have the best young team in the NBA.

Unfortunately, it may only last for one year (if OPJ opts out). But still, that one year will give the Bulls the chance to establish the team as one that veteran players may want to come to in the future.

That includes OPJ himself. So, the Bulls have one year to convince him that he should want to stay in Chicago, but it would require the negotiation of an extension that would (of course) include an increase in salary.

However, historically the Bulls have not aggressively tried to resign UFAs. Therefore OPJ's days with the Bulls are probably numbered.

[sco]

No, he wasn't, but guys are better shooters across the board now days, so the difference relative to era may not be that huge. But mostly I'm talking two way, glue guy that rarely ever hurts you.

If we had Otto back in. 2011. We win more games against the Heat.

That is why Lavine is going to be goldthis year. He has at least 3 to 4 guys who can really hit open shots. If Lauri and him can play better defense look out.

Now that the effects of the CBA have fully kicked in, it appears that the Warriors may be the last "Super Team" that anyone can put together for awhile.

What we see happening is that the All Star level players are being more evenly dispersed around the league, and that more and more, future draft picks are the deciding factor in trades that send All Star level players to other teams.

The end effect is that the "poor" teams in the NBA are getting more and more of the young talent.

And that brings us to the Bulls.

With Zach, Lauri and OPJ as a proven core, as well as the additions of WCJ, Coby White and Daniel Gafford, it can be argued that the Bulls have the best young team in the NBA.

Unfortunately, it may only last for one year (if OPJ opts out). But still, that one year will give the Bulls the chance to establish the team as one that veteran players may want to come to in the future.

That includes OPJ himself. So, the Bulls have one year to convince him that he should want to stay in Chicago, but it would require the negotiation of an extension that would (of course) include an increase in salary.

However, historically the Bulls have not aggressively tried to resign UFAs. Therefore OPJ's days with the Bulls are probably numbered.

I think resigning OPJ will depend on 2 things:

1) Do Bulls make the playoffs? If we're still a lotto team, then we need to replace Otto (and his $) with another impact player.
2) Otto's health - his durability (hip) has always been a question. If he shows he's durable and plays the whole season at the top of his game - finishing the season strong will matter too.

IMO, positive answers to these will have the Bulls pay whatever they need to for Otto. There really aren't alternatives to be found next offseason through FA.

[sco]

Just want to ask the group - if not Otto next season, then who?

Not sure which is a lower likelihood Hutch becoming a good 3pt shooter or landing Giannis?

[Michael Jackson]

Just want to ask the group - if not Otto next season, then who?

Not sure which is a lower likelihood Hutch becoming a good 3pt shooter or landing Giannis?

Stop making me cry.

[TeamMan]

Just want to ask the group - if not Otto next season, then who?

Not sure which is a lower likelihood Hutch becoming a good 3pt shooter or landing Giannis?

There was a a reason why I didn't include Hutch in my argument for the Bulls having the best young team in the NBA.

The most positive thing that I can say is, now that we have Thad Young, Hutch can use him as a role model.

Maybe in 10 years Hutch could develop into a similar type player.

[contestedlayups]

The Porter deal was a win as soon as it was made. The Bulls got better that day, no question, as they acquired a great shooter that doesn't need the ball in his hands and who is willing to defend for two black holes that were pretty much unwilling to defend.

Looking at it from a management perspective, the Bulls were so fortunate that John Wall tore his achilles shortly prior to the trade deadline, that Washington had to get under the luxury tax. That meant trading Porter, and Paxson was more than willing to get rid of Jabari Parker as soon as he could. That meant giving up Bobby Portis, whom the Bulls liked for the right price, but Porter was a difference maker that didn't need the ball and gave more touches to Markkanen, Lavine, and eventually Carter.

I like Otto Porter, I don't love anybody except myself, obviously.

[chitowndish]

I'm a really big fan of Porter's game and he's the perfect vet that can still contribute. Before he got here Carter had quotes about how he was trying to teach people how to play defense and just where to be and calling out coverages and it was shocking that it was a rookie that had to take it on himself to do that. Porter is going to make Carter's life so much easier just by knowing where to be and having someone else that can help everyone else get to where they need to be. I feel like he can be a great mentor to Carter because they both have really high BBIQ and almost natural instincts for the game and where to get on the court and what to do with the ball.

I also think Porter was playing behind ball dominant players so we really don't know how good of a scorer the guy is and that also made him more of a team player and fit in so well. He makes such great decisions with the ball but I feel like he has untapped potential as a scorer in that it seems like he really defers to others but has the skills and efficiency to take more of an offensive load on. It's not a bad thing and especially not when trying to fit into a new team but it seems to me like there is more potential there.

[sco]

I'm a really big fan of Porter's game and he's the perfect vet that can still contribute. Before he got here Carter had quotes about how he was trying to teach people how to play defense and just where to be and calling out coverages and it was shocking that it was a rookie that had to take it on himself to do that. Porter is going to make Carter's life so much easier just by knowing where to be and having someone else that can help everyone else get to where they need to be. I feel like he can be a great mentor to Carter because they both have really high BBIQ and almost natural instincts for the game and where to get on the court and what to do with the ball.

I also think Porter was playing behind ball dominant players so we really don't know how good of a scorer the guy is and that also made him more of a team player and fit in so well. He makes such great decisions with the ball but I feel like he has untapped potential as a scorer in that it seems like he really defers to others but has the skills and efficiency to take more of an offensive load on. It's not a bad thing and especially not when trying to fit into a new team but it seems to me like there is more potential there.

Really good point. I remember hearing from Wash fans after the trade that Otto defers too much on his offense. I think we saw that too, even when Lauri or Zach were out, Otto didn't up his aggressiveness. To be fair, his role is and has always been that of a 3rd option scorer - I don't see that changing much. That said, his stretch with the Bulls saw him take the most shots per game of his career (13.5 vs. 11 average before that). I think he's a 17PPG guy, best case for us, and is great as your 3rd option who does it efficiently and gives you defense.

[FriedRise]

If Otto can continue to make everyone around him better and elevate our young core's game, you've got to keep him. The only scenario where I'd trade him is if his game regresses, which causes everyone to be worse-off with him on the floor; or if we can land someone better than him (like a star), in which case he'll just be too expensive to be coming off the bench.

Last season we saw how good we can be when LaVine and Lauri were surrounded by RoLo, Otto, and Archi. This offseason we signed the final form of Archi in Sato, and we'll be getting back a better and more agile version of Lopez in Wendell. So next season is exciting because we're essentially gonna have TWO Otto Porter-like players in our starting lineup. The stage is set for Lauri, LaVine, and Wendell to take the team to the next level.

[Am2626]

No, he wasn't, but guys are better shooters across the board now days, so the difference relative to era may not be that huge. But mostly I'm talking two way, glue guy that rarely ever hurts you.

If we had Otto back in. 2011. We win more games against the Heat.

That is why Lavine is going to be goldthis year. He has at least 3 to 4 guys who can really hit open shots. If Lauri and him can play better defense look out.

Now that the effects of the CBA have fully kicked in, it appears that the Warriors may be the last "Super Team" that anyone can put together for awhile.

What we see happening is that the All Star level players are being more evenly dispersed around the league, and that more and more, future draft picks are the deciding factor in trades that send All Star level players to other teams.

The end effect is that the "poor" teams in the NBA are getting more and more of the young talent.

And that brings us to the Bulls.

With Zach, Lauri and OPJ as a proven core, as well as the additions of WCJ, Coby White and Daniel Gafford, it can be argued that the Bulls have the best young team in the NBA.

Unfortunately, it may only last for one year (if OPJ opts out). But still, that one year will give the Bulls the chance to establish the team as one that veteran players may want to come to in the future.

That includes OPJ himself. So, the Bulls have one year to convince him that he should want to stay in Chicago, but it would require the negotiation of an extension that would (of course) include an increase in salary.

However, historically the Bulls have not aggressively tried to resign UFAs. Therefore OPJ's days with the Bulls are probably numbered.

Yes I can see this but the one glaring weakness is a legitimate number 1 option. This would be a top 15 player in the league. If they can get this guy in free agency or in the draft the Bulls championship aspirations look good. I don’t think overspending for OPJ makes sense unless he significantly becomes a better player. He’s an important piece to a championship team but that piece isn’t worth overspending for.

[TeamMan]

If we had Otto back in. 2011. We win more games against the Heat.

That is why Lavine is going to be goldthis year. He has at least 3 to 4 guys who can really hit open shots. If Lauri and him can play better defense look out.

Now that the effects of the CBA have fully kicked in, it appears that the Warriors may be the last "Super Team" that anyone can put together for awhile.

What we see happening is that the All Star level players are being more evenly dispersed around the league, and that more and more, future draft picks are the deciding factor in trades that send All Star level players to other teams.

The end effect is that the "poor" teams in the NBA are getting more and more of the young talent.

And that brings us to the Bulls.

With Zach, Lauri and OPJ as a proven core, as well as the additions of WCJ, Coby White and Daniel Gafford, it can be argued that the Bulls have the best young team in the NBA.

Unfortunately, it may only last for one year (if OPJ opts out). But still, that one year will give the Bulls the chance to establish the team as one that veteran players may want to come to in the future.

That includes OPJ himself. So, the Bulls have one year to convince him that he should want to stay in Chicago, but it would require the negotiation of an extension that would (of course) include an increase in salary.

However, historically the Bulls have not aggressively tried to resign UFAs. Therefore OPJ's days with the Bulls are probably numbered.

Yes I can see this but the one glaring weakness is a legitimate number 1 option. This would be a top 15 player in the league. If they can get this guy in free agency or in the draft the Bulls championship aspirations look good. I don’t think overspending for OPJ makes sense unless he significantly becomes a better player. He’s an important piece to a championship team but that piece isn’t worth overspending for.

The core three have proven, that on any given night, any one of them can put up 30 or more points.

There are very few teams in the league that have three such players, especially young players.

Still, there are always questions until any teams wins a championship.

But hopefully, many of those questions will be answered next season, and they will start by making the playoffs.

[transplant]

Interesting thread. It's one thing to ask fans if they love OPJ, but as has been pointed out, he can be a FA after this season. So, if you "love" Porter, I think you have to support signing him to a max contract (what says love more than a long-term commitment and 100s of millions of guaranteed dollars?) don't you?.

[TheJordanRule]

Interesting thread. It's one thing to ask fans if they love OPJ, but as has been pointed out, he can be a FA after this season. So, if you "love" Porter, I think you have to support signing him to a max contract (what says love more than a long-term commitment and 100s of millions of guaranteed dollars?) don't you?.

Really interesting question, Transplant. If Otto were to sign a max contract today, as a 6 year pro, he'd actually get a tiny pay cut-- 25 % of the current cap is $27,250,000. If we can't talk Otto into giving us a bigger discount, yes, I'd still sign him to a max, but before we go further down this rabbit hole let's be honest-- the Bulls have some leverage to drive the price down. Like Sco said, Otto hasn't always been durable and, like WindyCityBorn said, Otto has reasons to want to lock in financial stability for the next 4 or 5 years just as much as any other player. However, for the sake of argument, let's imagine that Otto stands firm on a max contract. It's a really interesting question because if the soft cap doesn't spike up, you're essentially paying max money to a great 2b player which could complicate things further down the line in the rebuild. At the same time, the cap is very likely to spike up over the next couple of years. This off season, the soft cap rose from $101.8 million up to $109.1 million, and it's projected to rise again a year from now up to $118 million. If the market meets projections, Otto's $30 million per year deal would certainly be palatable, especially if we can't bag Giannis or trade for the next James Harden because $30 mil is only 25.4 percent of a $118 million dollar cap. Even if the market experiences no growth, a $30 mil per year deal would be 27.5 % of the cap. That's hefty to be sure, but for a 20 win team that's hoping to sneak into the playoffs next season, Otto is the X factor.

Here are a couple of interesting sources on the topic:
https://heavy.com/sports/2019/05/nba-supermax-contract-how-much-salary/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-basketball-nba-salarycap/nba-salary-cap-109-million-in-2019-118-million-in-2020-idUSKCN1LY2DH

[sami71]

Interesting thread. It's one thing to ask fans if they love OPJ, but as has been pointed out, he can be a FA after this season. So, if you "love" Porter, I think you have to support signing him to a max contract (what says love more than a long-term commitment and 100s of millions of guaranteed dollars?) don't you?.

I voted "love" and I have been praising Otto before. I think he was the best player of all the Bulls after he arrived.

But everything is in context. I also "love" Rolo, but I wouldn't throw crazy money at him. Context matters.

That being said, with all the talk of alphas in the NBA, a very talented player that thrives outside of spotlight is worth more than an alpha with equal talent according to my math. Only so many alphas can fit into one room. It is just that I don't think Bulls have an alpha atm. We are hoping that LaVine will turn into one, but he is getting up in years fast - not much more time left.

We are hoping that Lauri might turn into one and he has more time, but I don't think he has shown much personality towards it - I would go as far as to say that Lauri seems to be heading into direction of Otto rather than an alpha. It is not necessarily a bad thing at all, on the contrary with the caveat that we will have to find the alpha later via draft, trade - or UFA, but that doesn't seem likely.

All that said while I am not throwing 100M to Otto, I still love OPJ.

[TheJordanRule]

Interesting thread. It's one thing to ask fans if they love OPJ, but as has been pointed out, he can be a FA after this season. So, if you "love" Porter, I think you have to support signing him to a max contract (what says love more than a long-term commitment and 100s of millions of guaranteed dollars?) don't you?.

I voted "love" and I have been praising Otto before. I think he was the best player of all the Bulls after he arrived.

But everything is in context. I also "love" Rolo, but I wouldn't throw crazy money at him. Context matters.

That being said, with all the talk of alphas in the NBA, a very talented player that thrives outside of spotlight is worth more than an alpha with equal talent according to my math. Only so many alphas can fit into one room. It is just that I don't think Bulls have an alpha atm. We are hoping that LaVine will turn into one, but he is getting up in years fast - not much more time left.

We are hoping that Lauri might turn into one and he has more time, but I don't think he has shown much personality towards it - I would go as far as to say that Lauri seems to be heading into direction of Otto rather than an alpha. It is not necessarily a bad thing at all, on the contrary with the caveat that we will have to find the alpha later via draft, trade - or UFA, but that doesn't seem likely.

All that said while I am not throwing 100M to Otto, I still love OPJ.

Realistically speaking, Otto may cost less because the market often greatly undervalues guys like him. He only got the big deal because Bradley Beal and John Wall needed a third banana, and the Wizards traded him away at the first sign of trouble because they didn't really value him to begin with. Unless Otto completely breaks out this season, he may still be in the ball park of Malcolm Brogdon and Harrison Barnes money-- two established young studs each who signed a 4 year, 85 million dollar extension this summer. It's up to GarPax to get something like that done but I think they're up to the task.

[transplant]

Interesting responses. Folks who love Porter don't want to see the Bulls offer him $100mil. I'll assume that if some other team loves him more than $100mil, these Porter lovers will be OK seeing him leave.

I expect some other team to love him more than 4/$100mil.

[TheJordanRule]

Interesting responses. Folks who love Porter don't want to see the Bulls offer him $100mil. I'll assume that if some other team loves him more than $100mil, these Porter lovers will be OK seeing him leave.

I expect some other team to love him more than 4/$100mil.

Come on T. I said the direct opposite. Of course I want the team to low ball him, but if a max is what it takes, yes I want to keep him. The cap will probably rise and make the deal more than palatable.

[MrFortune3]

Considering I was a crazy person who wanted to max him out when he was a RFA...yes, I love OPJ. Wanted him since he declared for the draft.

[sami71]

Interesting thread. It's one thing to ask fans if they love OPJ, but as has been pointed out, he can be a FA after this season. So, if you "love" Porter, I think you have to support signing him to a max contract (what says love more than a long-term commitment and 100s of millions of guaranteed dollars?) don't you?.

I voted "love" and I have been praising Otto before. I think he was the best player of all the Bulls after he arrived.

But everything is in context. I also "love" Rolo, but I wouldn't throw crazy money at him. Context matters.

That being said, with all the talk of alphas in the NBA, a very talented player that thrives outside of spotlight is worth more than an alpha with equal talent according to my math. Only so many alphas can fit into one room. It is just that I don't think Bulls have an alpha atm. We are hoping that LaVine will turn into one, but he is getting up in years fast - not much more time left.

We are hoping that Lauri might turn into one and he has more time, but I don't think he has shown much personality towards it - I would go as far as to say that Lauri seems to be heading into direction of Otto rather than an alpha. It is not necessarily a bad thing at all, on the contrary with the caveat that we will have to find the alpha later via draft, trade - or UFA, but that doesn't seem likely.

All that said while I am not throwing 100M to Otto, I still love OPJ.

Realistically speaking, Otto may cost less because the market often greatly undervalues guys like him. He only got the big deal because Bradley Beal and John Wall needed a third banana, and the Wizards traded him away at the first sign of trouble because they didn't really value him to begin with. Unless Otto completely breaks out this season, he may still be in the ball park of Malcolm Brogdon and Harrison Barnes money-- two established young studs each who signed a 4 year, 85 million dollar extension this summer. It's up to GarPax to get something like that done but I think they're up to the task.

I agree. An alpha mentality is viewed as a plus automatically and it is reflected in the salary. Whereas in many circumstances it is a hindrance, given their already is a (quality) alpha in the team.