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Eastern Conference Summer League Notes

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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#21 » by sco » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:31 pm

rtblues wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
JimmyJammer wrote:While it is easy to get negative about Dunn, but the fact that he has not been healthy for a full season still adds an element of mystery as to who he really is. He did improve his shooting percentages all across the board last season, though the sample size was rather small. One question we must ask ourselves then: do we have enough evidence to know if Satoransky is a better player than Dunn? Satoransky is obviously the better shooter and more finished product, being that he has been playing pro basketball since the age of 16, but Dunn has shown in spurts he can be formidable and even clutch. I don't know about anyone else but I am extremely curious to find out at this point, provided this does not turn into a Bobby vs Niko kind of thing.


I forget which podcast I heard this on, I think it was cash considerations and was from one of their guests (or maybe Ricky O'Donnell), but they said the problem with Dunn is he never realized he's the fifth option. He still thinks he's an alpha, but when he's on the floor with LaVine, Porter, Lauri, and Carter, he is literally the last of those five guys who should shoot the ball.

Unless he resolves that fundamental problem, he'll never be that useful of a player.

Self-Awareness is a real issue in the NBA right now.
Westbrook, CP3, Dunn....

I think the $ and entourages don't help. It's about brand and the next contract before winning for 90% of players. Even those that say the right thing may just have smart publicists that tell them what to say to increase their value, but it's what we want to hear.
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#22 » by dougthonus » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:43 pm

sco wrote:I think the $ and entourages don't help. It's about brand and the next contract before winning for 90% of players. Even those that say the right thing may just have smart publicists that tell them what to say to increase their value, but it's what we want to hear.


It's up to teams to pay for winners. A player _absolutely_ should do whatever they feel brings them the most money. If teams aren't willing to pay up the big money for winners and pay for individual accolades then that is what players should continue to strive for.
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#23 » by contestedlayups » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:45 pm

dougthonus wrote:
JimmyJammer wrote:While it is easy to get negative about Dunn, but the fact that he has not been healthy for a full season still adds an element of mystery as to who he really is. He did improve his shooting percentages all across the board last season, though the sample size was rather small. One question we must ask ourselves then: do we have enough evidence to know if Satoransky is a better player than Dunn? Satoransky is obviously the better shooter and more finished product, being that he has been playing pro basketball since the age of 16, but Dunn has shown in spurts he can be formidable and even clutch. I don't know about anyone else but I am extremely curious to find out at this point, provided this does not turn into a Bobby vs Niko kind of thing.


I forget which podcast I heard this on, I think it was cash considerations and was from one of their guests (or maybe Ricky O'Donnell), but they said the problem with Dunn is he never realized he's the fifth option. He still thinks he's an alpha, but when he's on the floor with LaVine, Porter, Lauri, and Carter, he is literally the last of those five guys who should shoot the ball.

Unless he resolves that fundamental problem, he'll never be that useful of a player.


I noticed that last year, that he's absolutely awful without the ball. Has no idea when to cut, can't hit open 3's off of solid passes, doesn't set off ball screens. Dunn never learned how to do the small things, likely since he was at Providence he was always The Man, and in Minnesota, Thibs never made eye contact with him his rookie year. Dunn can still be impactful, however, if he adjusts his game to playing off the ball and being effective, or maybe Boylen gives him a role as the 2nd unit pg.

Whatever the case is, Dunn still has a chance here, at least going into training camp. It's all up to him to decide if he wants to put his ego aside and do the right things for the team, or if he's going to consistently consider himself the alpha when he's not.
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#24 » by Dresden » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:15 pm

JimmyJammer wrote:It is a revelation to me that our coach openly came out to say that we have enough to make the playoffs now, which certainly puts the pressure on him to help the team make it there. Did this statement really come from Boylen or another coaching staff member? That's really interesting.


Coaches are always going to say that before the season starts, no matter how bad the team is. You never want to give your players the thought that you don't think they are good enough to at least make a push for an 8th seed. That would be like giving up before you've even played your first game. It's not like he said "I guarantee you will make the playoffs this year.".
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#25 » by Dresden » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:21 pm

League Circles wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
JimmyJammer wrote:While it is easy to get negative about Dunn, but the fact that he has not been healthy for a full season still adds an element of mystery as to who he really is. He did improve his shooting percentages all across the board last season, though the sample size was rather small. One question we must ask ourselves then: do we have enough evidence to know if Satoransky is a better player than Dunn? Satoransky is obviously the better shooter and more finished product, being that he has been playing pro basketball since the age of 16, but Dunn has shown in spurts he can be formidable and even clutch. I don't know about anyone else but I am extremely curious to find out at this point, provided this does not turn into a Bobby vs Niko kind of thing.


I forget which podcast I heard this on, I think it was cash considerations and was from one of their guests (or maybe Ricky O'Donnell), but they said the problem with Dunn is he never realized he's the fifth option. He still thinks he's an alpha, but when he's on the floor with LaVine, Porter, Lauri, and Carter, he is literally the last of those five guys who should shoot the ball.

Unless he resolves that fundamental problem, he'll never be that useful of a player.

Agreed, though three things are notable:

1. There will/could be times when instead of the fifth he should be the 3rd or 4th option in a unit.

2. The guy with the ball proceeding to a layup or dunk is ALWAYS the first option, and as a ("point") guard, he'll have the ball plenty.

3. IF he can learn that, other than the naturally limited instances where he can get that layup or dunk (though you always have to try by putting pressure on the defense to attack), and admittedly it's a big IF and common among talented NBA players, then he can be a real asset.


The problem is, Dunn plays a more traditional pg- which is that the pg dominates the ball, and tries to make players for others or for himself. Sort of like a Chris Paul. That's all he knows how to do, and it's really what his skill set allows him to do. The problem is, he just isn't good enough to be that sort of a pg. And he's not a good enough shooter to function as someone who brings the ball up the court, and then stands at the 3 pt line. Maybe he can learn to play that way, and improve his shooting enough to do so, but it's not going to be easy. I think he's better off leading the second team, where he can play a style that is more natural to him. He might be good enough to do that, or he might not be.
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#26 » by sco » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:31 pm

dougthonus wrote:
sco wrote:I think the $ and entourages don't help. It's about brand and the next contract before winning for 90% of players. Even those that say the right thing may just have smart publicists that tell them what to say to increase their value, but it's what we want to hear.


It's up to teams to pay for winners. A player _absolutely_ should do whatever they feel brings them the most money. If teams aren't willing to pay up the big money for winners and pay for individual accolades then that is what players should continue to strive for.

IMO, while up to teams, they usually pay for stats and "potential". The Jabari comments are a good example of that. To be fair, players who bring stats AND winning are usually in short supply in FA until they are over 30, so teams gotta pay someone.
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#27 » by Kurt Heimlich » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:58 pm

They're certainly selling the idea that the starting point spot is up for grabs. I'm sure in their ideal world, just like most of us, Sato is likely the placeholder for the job until Coby gets his footing. Whether that takes a full season or not, ideally coby shows that next level ability and satoslides back as that ideal 3rd guard they talked about.

Arci is a solid 3rd guard who can fill in minutes for injury or play in some 3 guard lineups occationally.

I am very low on dunn as I suspect the bulls are though they'll never say it in order to avoid further submarining his value. I dont expect him to get significantly better offensively and him winning significant playing time IMO will speak more to the failure of the guys he beat out.

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