Has the bench really improved that much?

Bandit King · Post #1 » by **Bandit King** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:37 pm

We have still have bunch of useless players like Valentine, Lemon, Dunn, Blakeney, and Sherk.

Even the guys we've add are just solid players, and one's a rookie that might challenge for 6th man of the year.

I think SF and SG we have depth issues, and we have too many PGs. And this team has history of injury problems!

Are we still a ways to go still? :-?

Post #2 » by **coldfish** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:12 pm

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401071531

That was a game during the good February stretch.

The bench that game was Felicio, Harrison, Selden and Luwawu

Just being even slightly healthy will be a big improvement for the bench. For most of last year, the bench was starting and a bunch of g-leaguers were the bench mob.

If the starters are Sato, Lavine, Otto, Lauri and Wendell then the next 4 guys will be Coby, Thad, Hutch or Val and Kornet. I would say that's a huge upgrade over what ACTUALLY was the bench for most of last year.

With that said, I still would like to trade Val and Dunn for a veteran, competent wing.

WindyCityBorn · Post #3 » by **WindyCityBorn** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:14 pm

Yes it has improved tremendously. A reliable backup wing is still a huge concern though. Lemon doesn't even have deal btw unless something changed. Felicio nor Blakney will see any minutes on this team barring a bunch of injuries. But if that happens we a **** regardless.

PaKii94 · Post #4 » by **PaKii94** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:23 pm

Yes. Our 3rd stringers this year were our starters at point last year. The only weak link is backup wing. Hopefully one of Val/Hutch can step up and fill that role.

Sato/Lavine/OPJ/Lauri/WCJ
Dunn/Coby/(val or hutch)/Young/Kornet
Archi/Shaq/blakeney/felicio/gafford

Bandit King · Post #5 » by **Bandit King** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:35 pm

Relying on Hutch and Valentine to step up and stay healthy is a lot to ask for!

sco · Post #6 » by **sco** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:43 pm

We downgraded from RoLo to Kornet and Gafford this season. Granted RoLo started a good chunk of the season after WCj went down. I have little knowledge what we'll get out of Kornett/Gafford...both question marks. It could be no downgrade or a big one. IMO, every minute either guy plays will be an upgrade over the many, unfortunate, Shrek moments.

I'm sure we'll be investing 20MPG min in Coby, somewhat regardless of his performance, but there's decent reason for optimism that he'll match what we got from Arci last season or even improve - and I like Arci.

The big question mark is what we get from Hutch/Val. Reality is that we get a small uptick over Selden/TLC. Certainly, big upgrades over Blakeney.

That will be a huge upgrade over last year's PF bench minutes when we had Hutch/misc.

IMO, this year won't be as much hockey line-change as we've seen in the past. I think they'll want Coby to get good stretches alongside starters. I also think they'll treat Young like a starter and will get starters minutes.

PaKii94 · Post #7 » by **PaKii94** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:47 pm

People are sleeping on Hutch. We can all agree he was disappointing as a rook but if you deep dive in the numbers, he was still a decently positive player when on the court. Now factor in a little improvement and he should be a solid bench player at the worst.

I might make a thread on him if I get the time at work....

Dieselbound&Down · Post #8 » by **Dieselbound&Down** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:49 pm

The bench last year was bad. No research into this comment but it feels like half the guys getting minutes at various points will be lucky to get more than a 10 day contract this year. The best part of the bench was also largely starting for too much of the year. It would be hard to be worse.

Assuming we don't see a repeat of legitimate/tank injuries to key starters, there should be actual continuity and skill on the second unit for the first time in quite a while.

musiqsoulchild · Post #9 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:18 pm

The bench last year was G-league ish.

We have come a long way from that.

However there are some significant issues still that need to be addressed:

PG: Arci will be the primary backup as Cody comes into the NBA feel. This is not bad in itself. Arci is actually pretty good as a backup.
SG: An area of concern. We are pencilling in Sato and Valentine as backups here. We dont yet know Sato's fit and we dont yet know Val's health.
SF: Massive upgrade with Thad as a backup SF. Hutch is still all promise, no performance. And he's coming off an injury.
PF: Dont need Lauri...between Otto and Thad we can cover 48 minutes if Lauri needs to be rested. Thats how strong PF is
C: Wendell's rookie-ness and his injury issues make this another spot of concern.

Which for me translates to:

1) Trade Dunn+Val for a decent SG/SF
2) Sign another big body to deliver about 10 MPG at Center. Should be fairly easy to get as big men are going for cheap now.

Post #10 » by **CBS7** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:24 pm

I don't know if we can say its "good". But it has improved tremendously through getting players back who missed time to injury in addition to adding new players.

You mentioned, Lemon, Blakeney, and Shrek, but unless we have major injury issues none of those guys should see a minute of play.

Valentine might be done, but he also might not be. He was a 39% 3 point shooter who didn't make many mistakes the last season he played. He could be a huge improvement over some of the guys who played last season, even in a 10 minute per game role.

Dunn still could be a very good backup in this league. It might not be here, but he's far from "useless". And once again he's far better than a lot of players that played big minutes for us last season.

Kurt Heimlich · Post #11 » by **Kurt Heimlich** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:25 pm

I'm drinking the Kool-Aid with Thad Young. I think he'll have a OPJ'ish impact with the guys he plays around. Especially defensively. I think he's a big upgrade.

Outside of that though it's a crap shoot. Coby/Arci/Hutch will likely be key components to whether or not that unit is successful and all of them minus maybe Arci come with significant question marks as young players.

Peelboy · Post #12 » by **Peelboy** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:38 pm

Not sure how this is even a question. Here's the main bench guys by MP last year: Arcidiacono, Harrison, Parker, Selden, Hutchison, Blakeney, Felicio. This year that should be Young>>>Parker/Selden, Dunn/White/Arci >= Arci/Harrison/Blakeney, Hutch v2.0 >= Hutch v 1.0, Gafford/Kornet>>Felicio. Last year's group shouldn't really be in the league except maybe 1-2 per team and the Bulls had them all.

Not to mention that in the starting lineup you should have Sato>>Dunn, OPJ>=Holiday/OPJ, and Carter>=Lopez.

TheSuzerain · Post #13 » by **TheSuzerain** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:08 pm

coldfish wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401071531

That was a game during the good February stretch.

The bench that game was Felicio, Harrison, Selden and Luwawu

Just being even slightly healthy will be a big improvement for the bench. For most of last year, the bench was starting and a bunch of g-leaguers were the bench mob.

If the starters are Sato, Lavine, Otto, Lauri and Wendell then the next 4 guys will be Coby, Thad, Hutch or Val and Kornet. I would say that's a huge upgrade over what ACTUALLY was the bench for most of last year.

With that said, I still would like to trade Val and Dunn for a veteran, competent wing.

Thad is a major upgrade to the bench.

Coby White, Hutch, and Val subbing in on the perimeter is probably not going to go well though. That's a poor group.

bad knees · Post #14 » by **bad knees** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:07 pm

If the Bulls want to maximize wins, then the starters will be Sato, LaVine, OPJ, Thad and Lauri. That leaves Coby, Arci, Kornet and WCJ as the primary bench, with Val/Hutch/Gafford sprinkling in. They are an upgrade over last year's bunch, but still a lot of uncertainty.

I have very little confidence that Hutch will be good enough, or Val will be healthy enough, to be a reliable contributor.

SHO'NUFF · Post #15 » by **SHO'NUFF** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:19 pm

Yes. It has greatly improved.

Jimako10 · Post #16 » by **Jimako10** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:22 pm

Are they going to have a 10 man rotation when the games actually start?

They have a lot more position versatility this year which may lead to a lot more games with just a 9 man rotation. That means whoever is playing the worst out of the 2nd unit is probably not seeing the floor all that much, my guess it's Valentine. But then again, if there's even 1 injury to the top 9, that probably means that 10th player is going to be getting at least 15-20 mpg.

ChettheJet · Post #17 » by **ChettheJet** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:24 pm

The first 5 off the bench would have started at the end of last season. When you start off with the view that the Bulls willing keep guys that are useless everybody needs to wonder why they haven't hired any executives off the internet.

The caveat is always, if they're healthy. Dunn and Valentine have shown they are NBA caliber players, are they as good as everybody expected when they got drafted, heck no but they can contribute. And once they're declared useless, what GM with any functioning brain cells is going to trade an upgrade for the Bulls at the wing for a combination of Valentine and Dunn, two useless players? Wise up.

Everybody wanted Lopez back, including me but let's not ignore that he's going to be a one year older Lopez and he played a lot of games last year. Why is he going to stay healthy but a younger Valentine can't? There is always some segment of Bulls fans who can't imagine the players they have actually producing or staying healthy but the discarded mutt they get from some other team is the key to a championship run.

Bandit King · Post #18 » by **Bandit King** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:59 am

Valentines foot still not cleared and we are weak at the wing positions.

Hutch look bad at summer league.

Kornet and Gafford don't equal the offensive and defensive output of a Robin Lopez at all.

Post #19 » by **DuckIII** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:25 am

The bench is improved tremendously, yes.

WindyCityBorn · Post #20 » by **WindyCityBorn** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:27 am

TheSuzerain wrote:
coldfish wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401071531

That was a game during the good February stretch.

The bench that game was Felicio, Harrison, Selden and Luwawu

Just being even slightly healthy will be a big improvement for the bench. For most of last year, the bench was starting and a bunch of g-leaguers were the bench mob.

If the starters are Sato, Lavine, Otto, Lauri and Wendell then the next 4 guys will be Coby, Thad, Hutch or Val and Kornet. I would say that's a huge upgrade over what ACTUALLY was the bench for most of last year.

With that said, I still would like to trade Val and Dunn for a veteran, competent wing.

Thad is a major upgrade to the bench.

Coby White, Hutch, and Val subbing in on the perimeter is probably not going to go well though. That's a poor group.

If our coach is smart we won't be doing hockey line subs. Keep at least one our perimeter starters on the court at all times. Also I'm not sure White beats Arci for backup PG simply because the latter doesn't make mistakes.